DREAM THEATER ANNOUNCE THE RETURN OF DRUMMER MIKE PORTNOY

[hefdaddy42]

have you guys seen this?



I think this might also give some credence to the rumor that SW is in talks to mix and produce the new DT

Oh,I can address this real quick.

This is yet another thing that will never ever happen.

There have been a lot of those talked about around here lol

[Mosh]

have you guys seen this?



I think this might also give some credence to the rumor that SW is in talks to mix and produce the new DT

Oh,I can address this real quick.

This is yet another thing that will never ever happen.

There have been a lot of those talked about around here lol

Often from the same user trying to stir the pot/derail threads with fake "rumors."

I suppose as the freshness of this news wears off, people are going to be more desperate for information. I expect it to be pretty quiet in the DT camp at least until 2024.

[DragonAttack]

have you guys seen this?



I think this might also give some credence to the rumor that SW is in talks to mix and produce the new DT

So...does this photo mean that Jon Anderson is going to replace JLB?




Or maybe whoever these guys are will have something to do with it?




As someone else, already explained, MP REGULARLY does birthday posts with photos of him with whomever is having a birthday.  Also, it seems pretty clear to me that (as is typical of his birthday posts) it's not even a recent picture of MP.

i never said there were talks i was aware of. if you read my post you would see that i mentioned "rumors of talks". not sure why this is so hard, lol. the rumors came from the DT Discord. not trying to sound self-important (why the hell would i seek clout on a message board over something like that?) was just sharing what i saw, jeez dude

There have been rumors of MP coming back to DT since...well...since he left the band 13 years ago.  Rumors on social media are typically bullshit.  When you come here wondering if this out-of-context photo lends credence to some rumor, it implies that you think the rumors have some validity.  Therefore, it's natural for folks to wonder what you're talking about and scrutinize it.  It's called critical thinking and, while that's not something that seems to be valued much on social media, it does, fortunately, seem to be valued around here.

I just think there's either really good, really bad, or just too many drugs in Denver.

I have it on good authority from the Queen discord that as soon as their North American tour ends, someone will be taking Petrucci's place in DT.

[wolfking]

I think this might also give some credence to the rumor that SW is in talks to mix and produce the new DT

Not to beat up on Sojourn even more, but this sort of statement is exactly the reason how these bullshit things even start circulating.  And even if you've heard it from somewhere else, this type of language and spreading of second hand bullshit does nothing but to help circulate the incorrect false rumor even further.

[Peter Mc]

Steven Wilson has made it fairly clear in the past that he’s not a fan of Dream Theater so I don’t see him being involved at all unless the band is going in a very different direction.

I think I’ve also just realised why I still feel a bit weird about the reunion.  I think I just want to see them all in a room together looking happy, talking about it or even a new band photo of them together along with an interview with them all.  The photoshopped band picture and separate press releases just all feels a little cold and like a business decision rather than friends reuniting.  I think it will feel more real and I will feel better once they all get together for a proper promotional thing.

[MirrorMask]

Yeah, the press release was nice overall, but if you had given to someone the assignment "Pretend MP is back in Dream Theater and write some statements about it from the guys", someone would have come pretty close to the actual press release.

[TAC]

I have it on good authority from the Queen discord that as soon as their North American tour ends, someone will be taking Petrucci's place in DT.

So you're saying that Brian may join DT?

[Trav86]

Yeah, the press release was nice overall, but if you had given to someone the assignment "Pretend MP is back in Dream Theater and write some statements about it from the guys", someone would have come pretty close to the actual press release.

They probably used Chatgpt for their statements. 

[Trav86]

I have it on good authority from the Queen discord that as soon as their North American tour ends, someone will be taking Petrucci's place in DT.

So you're saying that Brian may join DT?

Bravo. Well played.

[Mosh]

Steven Wilson has made it fairly clear in the past that he’s not a fan of Dream Theater so I don’t see him being involved at all unless the band is going in a very different direction.

I think I’ve also just realised why I still feel a bit weird about the reunion.  I think I just want to see them all in a room together looking happy, talking about it or even a new band photo of them together along with an interview with them all.  The photoshopped band picture and separate press releases just all feels a little cold and like a business decision rather than friends reuniting.  I think it will feel more real and I will feel better once they all get together for a proper promotional thing.

Agreed but I think a lot of it probably has to do with them rushing the announcement to get in front of a leak. That picture was probably slapped together in an hour. I'm sure once they're ready to show off the new old lineup they will do lots of press together and take cool photos etc.

[wolfking]

I have it on good authority from the Queen discord that as soon as their North American tour ends, someone will be taking Petrucci's place in DT.

So you're saying that Brian may join DT?

Oh dear. 

[Trav86]

Steven Wilson has made it fairly clear in the past that he’s not a fan of Dream Theater so I don’t see him being involved at all unless the band is going in a very different direction.

I think I’ve also just realised why I still feel a bit weird about the reunion.  I think I just want to see them all in a room together looking happy, talking about it or even a new band photo of them together along with an interview with them all.  The photoshopped band picture and separate press releases just all feels a little cold and like a business decision rather than friends reuniting.  I think it will feel more real and I will feel better once they all get together for a proper promotional thing.

Agreed but I think a lot of it probably has to do with them rushing the announcement to get in front of a leak. That picture was probably slapped together in an hour. I'm sure once they're ready to show off the new old lineup they will do lots of press together and take cool photos etc.

Yeah, I believe MP is still on the other side of the world right now with The Winery Dogs. The timing doesn’t make sense.

[TAC]

Agreed but I think a lot of it probably has to do with them rushing the announcement to get in front of a leak. That picture was probably slapped together in an hour. I'm sure once they're ready to show off the new old lineup they will do lots of press together and take cool photos etc.

Yeah, I believe MP is still on the other side of the world right now with The Winery Dogs. The timing doesn’t make sense.

It's like Hugh Syme put together the press release photo.


They could've rushed the announcement because of a potential leak, but so what if it leaks? I mean, it's still happening. It is my opinion that Mangini was about to embark on his solo album press campaign. In fact, he had even started it, where in one interview posted before the DT announcement, referred to working with Jordan in the past tense.
I don't think it's any coincidence that the day after the DT announcement, Mangini released his new album major press release.
My guess is that he gave them a date that he was going live with it, and it could've even been on short notice.

[gzarruk]

Agreed but I think a lot of it probably has to do with them rushing the announcement to get in front of a leak. That picture was probably slapped together in an hour. I'm sure once they're ready to show off the new old lineup they will do lots of press together and take cool photos etc.

Yeah, I believe MP is still on the other side of the world right now with The Winery Dogs. The timing doesn’t make sense.

It's like Hugh Syme put together the press release photo.

 

[Trav86]

Agreed but I think a lot of it probably has to do with them rushing the announcement to get in front of a leak. That picture was probably slapped together in an hour. I'm sure once they're ready to show off the new old lineup they will do lots of press together and take cool photos etc.

Yeah, I believe MP is still on the other side of the world right now with The Winery Dogs. The timing doesn’t make sense.

It's like Hugh Syme put together the press release photo.

 

No because there’s no watermark on MP’s photo.

[Mosh]

Agreed but I think a lot of it probably has to do with them rushing the announcement to get in front of a leak. That picture was probably slapped together in an hour. I'm sure once they're ready to show off the new old lineup they will do lots of press together and take cool photos etc.

Yeah, I believe MP is still on the other side of the world right now with The Winery Dogs. The timing doesn’t make sense.

It's like Hugh Syme put together the press release photo.


They could've rushed the announcement because of a potential leak, but so what if it leaks? I mean, it's still happening. It is my opinion that Mangini was about to embark on his solo album press campaign. In fact, he had even started it, where in one interview posted before the DT announcement, referred to working with Jordan in the past tense.
I don't think it's any coincidence that the day after the DT announcement, Mangini released his new album major press release.
My guess is that he gave them a date that he was going live with it, and it could've even been on short notice.

Yea that's true, maybe they didn't want Mangini to have to pretend he's still the Dream Theater drummer. Based on that interview going around he clearly wasn't very good at it.  Still doesn't really explain the haphazard way they announced it as Mangini's press campaign was known- they had time to prepare for that.

What I'm getting from how this went down is that the band has been really sensitive to not repeating some mistakes from when Portnoy left. Mangini joining Dream Theater did get leaked and the whole thing in general was a lot more public than what a lot of them wanted. They're doing this on their own terms so far this time around.

[ytserush]

I wonder if this is one last album/tour cycle before they retire? Bringing MP back for that would feel right.

Without knowing much else at this point, I'd say Dream Theater has announced their retirement without announcing their retirement. However much time is left, it may not be a very big window.

I can't imagine bringing back an energetic ADHD powerhouse just to be like "yeah we're actually done". If they do "retire" I suspect it would be to the festival circuit where they could do a bunch of fan favorites a couple of handfuls of times a year with long breaks in between, and I would further suspect it would be a situation where a big part of bringing MP back would be so he could administrate over a new DT-centric prog festival that isn't a one-time cruise each year, but instead hits major cities yearly.

Sounds plausible. Festivals are where you can still get added exposure without having to go on an extended tour.

[Peter Mc]

Agreed but I think a lot of it probably has to do with them rushing the announcement to get in front of a leak. That picture was probably slapped together in an hour. I'm sure once they're ready to show off the new old lineup they will do lots of press together and take cool photos etc.

Absolutely, I’m not saying it’s anyone’s fault or that there aren’t reasons why it had to be done this way.  Just that it doesn’t yet feel like this joyous reunion that I want it to feel like and I think that’s because we haven’t seen them actually physically reunited in the same room talking more about how excited they all are to be back.  I’m sure that will come later.

[TAC]

Agreed but I think a lot of it probably has to do with them rushing the announcement to get in front of a leak. That picture was probably slapped together in an hour. I'm sure once they're ready to show off the new old lineup they will do lots of press together and take cool photos etc.

Absolutely, I’m not saying it’s anyone’s fault or that there aren’t reasons why it had to be done this way, just that it doesn’t yet feel like this joyous reunion that I want it to feel like and I think that’s because we haven’t seen them actually physically reunited in the same room talking more about how excited they all are to be back. I’m sure that will come later.

Yeah this. No interviews on youtube or anything. The statement is just sitting there. It's the kind of thing where we'd say..."this wouldn't have happened if MP was still in the band." And yet...

It's like, if the band's not excited about it, how do we get excited?

[Mosh]

Well that's definitely an area where the jury is still out on how much MP is going to have an impact on these behind the scenes things. JP clearly liked running the band a certain way and he's under no obligation to go back, as much as fans clamor for it around here.

I totally agree though, just a live stream Q&A for the band to chat with the audience would be really cool. But what is there to talk about at this point? They have to make music together first.

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

I think this might also give some credence to the rumor that SW is in talks to mix and produce the new DT

Not to beat up on Sojourn even more, but this sort of statement is exactly the reason how these bullshit things even start circulating.  And even if you've heard it from somewhere else, this type of language and spreading of second hand bullshit does nothing but to help circulate the incorrect false rumor even further.

you've had no problem attacking me in every thread i've posted in for months (but somehow i'm the weird one??), may as well add another

[zappafrank2112]

'25 Will be their 20th anniversary of Octavarium, so that would be a full cirkle as well.

Heh, Octavarium, full circle.  I see what you did there.

[ytserush]

With the Dream Theater shows I've been to (five times) with Mangini, I felt like watching (and adoring) first class art... but with Portnoy behind the kit, I didn't felt like watching, but being a part of it.

The difference pre and post MP was, to me, with JP's vision, the shows went from being concerts to being performances.

Not going to say I prefer one over the other but they sure are different.

[ytserush]

"Fired" means the employer unilaterally made the decision, AND it usually implies performance or conduct problems.

But people separate from employment for a lot of reasons that have nothing to do with being fired, including:  They retire; They voluntarily resign; They part ways by mutual agreement, for any number of reasons; They are let go for budgetary reasons; Their contract expires or is not renewed; There is a triggering event under a contract; The employee is no longer capable of doing the job (for medical or other reasons); The employer just changes its mind and moves on for any number of reasons not included in the above.

What are your thoughts on "Laid Off"  of "Let Go?"

I totally agree he was absolutely NOT "fired."

[ytserush]

Bosk covered everything exactly correct, including all of TAC's questions, and the distinction between "fired" and "let go", except for one. 

Before that, though, in terms of "fired" and "let go", I've been both and I've done both: there is a huge difference between someone walking into a room and hearing "You are fired" and grown adults sitting down and by the end of the meeting, the (working) relationship between the two parties is materially different.

My OPINION?  I've held off, but since you ask I will tell you:  I think it was like many things in life, no clear cut "this happened on this date and time" event, but a confluence of events over time.  I think dissatisfaction was growing on all sides, I think that while solo albums are not verboten, I think think Mangini's solo album was a door opening in the sense that the band then knew if there was no Dream Theater, he wouldn't be out on the street.  I don't know about the Berkley thing, but that may play in as well.  I think that there were likely discussions AFTER the solo tour between FAMILIES (not just the men) and for many reasons, not just music, it was decided that the classic incarnation was going to do this one (or more) more times.  I think there was probably some involvement from Neal Morse, honestly; it was... different at Moresefest this year.  There wasn't the optimism about the future that I normally get from those guys; there was a sense of finality, not to the Fest, but to the band itself.  There was a certain amount of "we may never do this again" that didn't seem limited to the Fest itself.    I think there is more going on in the Neal camp; he was perhaps looking to move away from NMB a bit. 

So I think lawyers started talking.   I think there is no question, given the timing of things, that Mike M. knew during the Rodrigo interview, though I do not think that's him getting emotional in the video; I literally think he just burped.  I'm being serious; that was my impression when I saw it before the news, and I'm not changing now.   I don't think Mike Mangini actively LEFT, opening a spot for a drummer, but I think they had a band meeting and put it on the table and Mike M. said that he wouldn't fight any decision made by the band as to the direction they were wanting to go.  One or more of the members said, "perfect world, we want to give this a try" and that was that.  The lawyers continued drafting documents, and they part as friends with the understanding that it's called the music BUSINESS for a reason. 

I have no clue why the decision was aired the day it was; I think the idea that it was going to leak and they wanted to get in front of it makes most sense; I can't speak for anyone else, but it seems as if this was a complete surprise, if not to Billy Sheehan, then at least to the public at large.

Not knowing the exact details, I think this is on the right track,  I think this happened months ago at the very least and likely could have been started even before that.  Possible signposts for me are that Mike cleared most of his calendar, Neal Morse initially saying he was taking a year off and the "blow up" near the end of the Transatlantic Tour. I also think Mike Mangini knew this for a lot longer than we think. (also I haven't read/heard/seen too many recent interviews with him in the last year.)

The timing may have also been a favor to Mike who would have had to keep lying about it in the buzz up to his solo album release and beyond.

[ytserush]

In regards to Mangini... I'm not a fan of the way he speaks in interviews. It feels like he's all over the place and he hardly makes any sense. Nothing personal against him. I've met him and he's extremely kind and insanely awesome at the drums. But yeah, as JSS said, "He talks funny."

I'm the opposite. I love listening to him speak. He reminds me a lot of Neil Peart.

[ytserush]

"Fired" means the employer unilaterally made the decision, AND it usually implies performance or conduct problems.

But people separate from employment for a lot of reasons that have nothing to do with being fired, including:  They retire; They voluntarily resign; They part ways by mutual agreement, for any number of reasons; They are let go for budgetary reasons; Their contract expires or is not renewed; There is a triggering event under a contract; The employee is no longer capable of doing the job (for medical or other reasons); The employer just changes its mind and moves on for any number of reasons not included in the above.

What are your thoughts on "Laid Off"  of "Let Go?"

I totally agree he was absolutely NOT "fired."

Already asked and answered. Sorry about that.

[nobloodyname]

Way late to this party, but after hearing and reading what Mike Mangini has said, it is my opinion that the other four members of Dream Theater made a decision to let Mangini go and bring back Mike Portnoy. No idea whether that is exactly what went down, but that's what it sound like, to me. No real big deal. Mangini was classy, as he always is.

Finally, a lawyer without the word salad.
And one that has an actual opinion.
Imagine that. 

Yup.

God some of these posts have been beyond tedious. Imagine having to live your life as a lawyer

I'm an auditor so maybe I have an unusual willingness to appreciate convoluted and unnecessary documentation, but I've really enjoyed the detailed breakdowns and discussions in here. In a situation where fans don't have much insight, it helps to reduce the possibilities to their essence and then to pick the one that fits the few facts we do have. It's not that I need to know, but encapsulating a huge array of possibilities (and feelings) into a couple simpler stories is a useful exercise - especially since we will never get all the details.

I can't imagine coming to this forum voluntarily if you find long, over-complicated circumambulation around a point that doesn't matter all that much anyways distasteful. 

Oh, I actually agree with you! The posts have all been interesting. My comment was intended as a bit of a wink.

But as someone who's studied linguistics (various applications), I come at it from a different angle to the lawyers. Linguistically, there's very little ambiguity. Mangini was replaced because they wanted Portnoy back. Every sign points to that. Is it incontrovertible evidence? No. Would it satisfy the 99% of us who aren't lawyers? Almost certainly

[nobloodyname]

All of this combined with the evidence that MP was titled as being a member of "Dream Theater" during his drum line performance tells me that the decision had been made by the time the Seattle events happened, SW was there for the production talks, and MP was taking the opportunity to also look at some real estate.

Tell you what, for someone who came here initally just to see if we're all arseholes and troll us (or am I confusing you with someone else who joined around the same time?!), I have to say many of your posts make me chuckle. I reckon some misunderstand your humour. Either that, or you're batshit crazy.

Welcome to the forum

[noxon]

Steven Wilson has made it fairly clear in the past that he’s not a fan of Dream Theater so I don’t see him being involved at all unless the band is going in a very different direction.

I think I’ve also just realised why I still feel a bit weird about the reunion.  I think I just want to see them all in a room together looking happy, talking about it or even a new band photo of them together along with an interview with them all.  The photoshopped band picture and separate press releases just all feels a little cold and like a business decision rather than friends reuniting.  I think it will feel more real and I will feel better once they all get together for a proper promotional thing.

Agreed but I think a lot of it probably has to do with them rushing the announcement to get in front of a leak. That picture was probably slapped together in an hour. I'm sure once they're ready to show off the new old lineup they will do lots of press together and take cool photos etc.

Yeah, I believe MP is still on the other side of the world right now with The Winery Dogs. The timing doesn’t make sense.

It wasn’t as rushed as you think it was - it was a coordinated effort that involved quite a lot of people so it was actually “alive” round the world at least as day before it was released. I started getting questions about it the night before, which I had to lie about… due to press getting the press release and them telling friends who then contacted me…

[wolfking]

I think this might also give some credence to the rumor that SW is in talks to mix and produce the new DT

Not to beat up on Sojourn even more, but this sort of statement is exactly the reason how these bullshit things even start circulating.  And even if you've heard it from somewhere else, this type of language and spreading of second hand bullshit does nothing but to help circulate the incorrect false rumor even further.

you've had no problem attacking me in every thread i've posted in for months (but somehow i'm the weird one??), may as well add another

Every single thread you've posted in for months?  Seems a bit embellished mate but my apologies.

[MirrorMask]

Agreed but I think a lot of it probably has to do with them rushing the announcement to get in front of a leak. That picture was probably slapped together in an hour. I'm sure once they're ready to show off the new old lineup they will do lots of press together and take cool photos etc.

Absolutely, I’m not saying it’s anyone’s fault or that there aren’t reasons why it had to be done this way.  Just that it doesn’t yet feel like this joyous reunion that I want it to feel like and I think that’s because we haven’t seen them actually physically reunited in the same room talking more about how excited they all are to be back.  I’m sure that will come later.

Now that you point it out, it makes sense. That's what felt a bit "off" about the reunion - it came seemingly out of the blue, and with a random photoshop. Mike is on tour in Europe, James is in Canada anyway - would he have taken a plane just for a photoshoot if MP was in the USA? but even in 1999 the Iron Maiden reunion was announced with a proper photo of the six guys together, it's a pity that there wasn't a chance or occasion for an actual photo of them together.

[KevShmev]

I didn't even notice how terrible the photo was until it was pointed out (I guess I scrolled past it quickly initially to read the quotes from the band members), but it is wild that they couldn't come off with something better.  It not only looks like a bad photoshop, but it almost looks bad sketches of them rather than actual pics.  Not that it really matters what the band looks like, but this constant "let's all dress in black/dark colors" look is making them look older than they already are.

[MirrorMask]

This is one of my favorite photos of them, Octavarium era; they look "normal", relatable for lack of a better word, they're not trying too hard:



Also this more recent photo is not so over top with the "we are metalllllll" vibe:

[Skeever]

I know that HS 808 was just shooting the shit, but maybe with the shifting power dynamic it would be interesting for Dream Theater to have an outside producer in on this album. I don't think Wilson would be the right guy, since he's never really been a Dream Theater fan himself. But what about somebody like Mikael Akerfelt? I'm sure it wouldn't happen because Mike and John enjoy producing too much. But it would be interesting to hear what happens if they went into a studio with somebody like that who is kind of a big time fan of theirs.