DREAM THEATER ANNOUNCE THE RETURN OF DRUMMER MIKE PORTNOY

[Dedalus]

It's nice they were able to work things out.....but for the love of god keep him away from the microphone.

I don't expect them to do this, but I hope I'm wrong.  Let him do some live backing vocals, but please no more on the albums.

Oh, I had forgotten about that. Mike Portnoy will return to sing on DT. What a joy.

[faizoff]

Man so many people coming out of retirement to post in here. What a day!


They obviously fixed it now but for a while they had MP's pic on Mangini's name 

[Lethean]

We are not likely to get any further information unless MM decides to say how the call went. The band is going to be asked about this and I would expect that in typical JP form, he will be very cordial and guarded with his response. He isn't going to say the View and DreamSonic sales were weak or that MP is going to get people excited again when they were getting bored. He is going to say something like 'we are childhood friends and we just felt like the time was right to get back together.'

Agreed.  And I'm mostly fine with that.  JP keeps things professional and while I'd be lying if I said I didn't want to know all of the details, I don't think it's necessary. 

[TAC]

Man so many people coming out of retirement to post in here. What a day!


They obviously fixed it now but for a while they had MP's pic on Mangini's name 

That's what probably threw Billy Sheehan off.

[Mosh]

Man so many people coming out of retirement to post in here. What a day!


They obviously fixed it now but for a while they had MP's pic on Mangini's name 

I still get a picture of MP there when I visit the site.

[Bluefish]

I wonder if and when the story will come out

I mean, the story is pretty obvious, no

In terms of what was written in the official statement, yes.  But why now?  If the reasons are financial, how long has this been a problem?  Did it start immediately?  Did The Astonishing contribute to the problem?  (I know a lot of people love that album, but there are also a lot that don't.)  Every band was impacted by the Covid shutdown and the financial risks of touring since then.  The smaller the band, the greater the impact and risk.

These are honest questions.  I don't know the answers.

[Tony From Long Island]

This is the best news I have heard in a long, long time.

I hope they have figured out a way to allow Mike to do the other things he enjoys while being where he belongs.

[Bluefish]

Man so many people coming out of retirement to post in here. What a day!


They obviously fixed it now but for a while they had MP's pic on Mangini's name 

I hope he doesn't sing on the records.  They do need help with backing vocals on stage.  John Petrucci can't do it alone.

[TAC]

Man so many people coming out of retirement to post in here. What a day!


They obviously fixed it now but for a while they had MP's pic on Mangini's name 

I still get a picture of MP there when I visit the site.

This kind of thing wouldn't have happened if Mangini was in the band..

[TAC]

I wonder if and when the story will come out

I mean, the story is pretty obvious, no

In terms of what was written in the official statement, yes.  But why now?  If the reasons are financial, how long has this been a problem?  Did it start immediately?  Did The Astonishing contribute to the problem?  (I know a lot of people love that album, but there are also a lot that don't.)  Every band was impacted by the Covid shutdown and the financial risks of touring since then.  The smaller the band, the greater the impact and risk.

These are honest questions.  I don't know the answers.

Yeah, legit.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

I wonder if and when the story will come out

I mean, the story is pretty obvious, no

In terms of what was written in the official statement, yes.  But why now?  If the reasons are financial, how long has this been a problem?  Did it start immediately?  Did The Astonishing contribute to the problem?  (I know a lot of people love that album, but there are also a lot that don't.)  Every band was impacted by the Covid shutdown and the financial risks of touring since then.  The smaller the band, the greater the impact and risk.

These are honest questions.  I don't know the answers.

Those are great questions. I think we have enough information to infer most of the answers. It is possible that MM himself did not get the full answer but if the last 2 tours were as poorly attended as people say, then that is a good indicator of what motivated this decision. I watched a good documentary called Hired Gun - it's about exactly what it sounds like. This is just how these things go sometimes. Out of nowhere seemingly, the captain decides to steer the ship in another direction. Sometimes it is personal, or drugs, or a tragedy in someone's life, but a lot of the times it just comes down to the business aspect.

[bosk1]

Love your post BS!

Well, yes, "BS" is an unintentionally great description of a lot of it.

...the most straight forward reading of his statement is 'I got fired.' He got let go in the absence of any contradictory information from the horses' mouths. 

No, this is not at all what anything that has been released from ANY official source says.  Not even close.  You have been spoken to in the past by me about bashing band members and about spreading false information by stating opinions as facts.  Consider this an official warning.  Continuing down this road will lead to your permanent exit from these forums.

2. It was a business decision... but the reality is that in business you don't make changes to your personnel when everything is going great. You make changes when things are not going well. Hence, if there was no personal conflict there is literally no reason to rock the boat unless you think it needs to be.

This whole point is wildly off base, but the quoted part really shows the flaws in your logic.  You are using the "a band is a business" trope, but shifting the scope and definition of what that means midstream to try to make this into something it isn't.  Yes, in many respects, a band is a business.  It makes sense to discuss it that way in a lot of contexts.  But not this one.  Bands typically aren't run the same way as Walmart, or Microsoft, or the hardware store down the street.  And they certainly don't typically make band member decisions the same way a traditional business makes personnel decisions.  There are any number of reasons why personnel changes in bands happen, and, yes, those often DO happen when there is no personal conflict whatsoever.  Again, there are any number of reasons.  YOU don't have the reasons.  So, again, you aren't entitled to attribute your own fictional narrative to what happened and imply some improper motive.  This is not the place for that.  If that is what you wish to do, (1) you will find yourself needing another place to do it, and (2) you should really reconsider your thought process.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

Love your post BS!

Well, yes, "BS" is an unintentionally great description of a lot of it.

...the most straight forward reading of his statement is 'I got fired.' He got let go in the absence of any contradictory information from the horses' mouths. 

No, this is not at all what anything that has been released from ANY official source says.  Not even close.  You have been spoken to in the past by me about bashing band members and about spreading false information by stating opinions as facts.  Consider this an official warning.  Continuing down this road will lead to your permanent exit from these forums.

2. It was a business decision... but the reality is that in business you don't make changes to your personnel when everything is going great. You make changes when things are not going well. Hence, if there was no personal conflict there is literally no reason to rock the boat unless you think it needs to be.

This whole point is wildly off base, but the quoted part really shows the flaws in your logic.  You are using the "a band is a business" trope, but shifting the scope and definition of what that means midstream to try to make this into something it isn't.  Yes, in many respects, a band is a business.  It makes sense to discuss it that way in a lot of contexts.  But not this one.  Bands typically aren't run the same way as Walmart, or Microsoft, or the hardware store down the street.  And they certainly don't typically make band member decisions the same way a traditional business makes personnel decisions.  There are any number of reasons why personnel changes in bands happen, and, yes, those often DO happen when there is no personal conflict whatsoever.  Again, there are any number of reasons.  YOU don't have the reasons.  So, again, you aren't entitled to attribute your own fictional narrative to what happened and imply some improper motive.  This is not the place for that.  If that is what you wish to do, (1) you will find yourself needing another place to do it, and (2) you should really reconsider your thought process.

What's your problem? I didn't bash ANYONE and I don't recall a single warning in which I was told not to bash anyone. All I did was read what Mike Mangini wrote and gave it the fairest reading that OTHER FORUM MEMBERS have already stated before I posted a single word. Did the other people who came to the same conclusion also get a warning or just me? I used his official statement and took it at its word: it was DT's decision. (" I understand DREAM THEATER's decision") This line is not my opinion; that is what he wrote.

Did you see that I prefaced my statement by saying they were my thoughts and opinions? Some of what I wrote was opinion and I labeled it as such. It was my interpretation of the events that have unfolded and I never claimed it was anything else.  Are we no longer to interpret the major stories that drop? I don't think that principle has been enforced anywhere on this forum. Also a 'business decision' was never said to be an improper motive. I don't consider it improper - maybe your opinion is that it is. But if this is the new rule then I guess on this forum no one can give an opinion or hypothesize why for example DT decides to do X over Y, why a sports team makes one decision over another, why a musical decision was made as opposed to another one. That cannot possibly be the rule because a hell of a lot of posts are exactly that: opinions and interpretations about events even if no official statement has been given. What I posted isn't different in spirit than any other post. It just appears you really don't want anyone saying anything one way or another on this. And if that is your preference I will respect it, but you are being extremely unfair to me.

I literally do not understand why you are aggressively attacking me and singling me out right now.

EDIT - I am sorry. I can't stop thinking about this... what in God's name does my post have to do with bashing band members and how am I 'stating opinions as facts' when I prefaced the entire post by saying THOUGHTS AND OPINIONS.

[evilasiojr]

It just feels like it was all of these things at the same time: renewal of the spirit and energies, marketing, ticket sales, James and MP getting along once more, MP recording two albums in a roll at DTs HQ, tour with JP, MP hanging in a DT show... We were all here and witnessed that, it's all there.

It could have gone different ways, though! I for one wasn't sure if even MP wanted to be back, or if the band wanted him back. They could have decided to keep the reconciliation in their side projects and personal life and keep trying it out with DT and MM longer. But it seems like both sides wanted to give this iconic line up a closing chapter, even the final chapter of the band, as Labrie indicated. On that note as well, I highly doubt they'll keep for longer than 10 years. Not for any drama or bad stuff, just because it's also fair these guys retire some time soon! (not that I would desire that at any point, selfishly)

[Dedalus]

As one of Mangini's more ardent supporters, obviously I am extremely disappointed by the decision. I've said a few times I think the MM era produced some of the best DT music and reinvigorated my interest in the band. I am going into DT16 with an open mind and I feel like it'll be a great album because the band may feel like there is something to prove now, but I cannot escape my deeply felt preference for MM's more technical and sophisticated style of drumming and orchestration.

A few random thoughts and opinions on the issue:

1. Mangini got let go. We don't need to go through a grammatical analysis of what he released but it is extremely clear that it was a decision made for him. I understand there is more to uncover, but unless something comes out that contradict's 'DT's decision to get MP back at this time' or his reminder to everyone that from day one he was never going to be what MP was to the band, the most straight forward reading of his statement is 'I got fired.' He got let go in the absence of any contradictory information from the horses' mouths.

2. It was a business decision. From day 1 on this board fans were noticing that the DreamSonic attendance and enthusiasm was dismal. Initially I was reluctant to accept the tour was poorly attended until it was complete but it became obvious from eye witness testimony that as the concert went on, people were not happy or willing to put their money down. I was personally happy about my experience but I can't deny that so many outspoken fans did not like the setlist, the performance of some members, or the alleged predictability of the DT shows as of late.

I saw a very cynical post on another outlet that said this was a 'desperate attempt at a money grab' and while I do NOT agree with the tone of that, I do suspect this was meant to be a shot of adrenaline into an act that is declining in popularity as of late. Obviously I do not have the sales numbers, but the reality is that in business you don't make changes to your personnel when everything is going great. You make changes when things are not going well. Hence, if there was no personal conflict there is literally no reason to rock the boat unless you think it needs to be. After over a decade and 5 albums it wasn't a 'fit' or work ethic issue. But the grumblings were getting louder. As you can see on social media outlets, the overwhelming response to this is one of nostalgic bliss. This announcement created a ton of positive buzz around DT and the next album and tour are going to be hyped.

In my opinion, to the extent that fans were unhappy and unmotivated by the setlist, poor vocal performances, lack of fan engagement, or even the songwriting (all things that were brought up on this forum), that is John Petrucci's responsibility. He was the one who spearheaded the setlist; he is the one who refuses to do anything about the vocal performances; he is the one who as the leader of the band cannot fill MP's shoes on fan engagement. He did not hire MM to do any of those jobs, as was made clear from day one. Am I saying he is throwing MM under the bus? No. But I do think the growing feeling was that something was missing, it was showing up in the sales numbers, and he needed to do something to energize the fans.

3. MP in DT in 2023 will not be the same as MP in DT in 2009. I don't think MP is going to come in and pick up where he left off. I don't expect to hear any vocal backing tracks stepping all over JLB or any public criticisms regardless of how bad things get. What I expect to hear is his straight-forward rock drumming style with his signature fills and patterns. Just my opinion, but the drums will be less interesting now. Also they're still going to play MM-era songs, including their one and only grammy win, but things just won't be the same. MP cannot physically execute a faithful rendition of MM-era songs like the Alien, and he would be the first to tell you that.

5. DT is not done any time soon. I don't think this means there has been some discussion about the end. I think the guys love what they do and this was only meant to address the business side of things and try to set things on a better path for the long haul.

6. This change does not necessarily fix the issues people were complaining about in the last couple years. It probably fixes the fan engagement aspect of things because MP is so involved with the fans, but it does nothing to address the volatile vocal performances that were so widely criticized here. I don't think the band has committed to rotating setlists (something JP was free to continue in MP's absence if he wanted) so that part remains to be seen. If the song writing was bothering people, that is mainly JP and JR so unless those two are going to start changing their approach, I doubt we'll hear anything substantially different on DT16.

Nostalgia is a powerful thing but my personal opinion is that we traded a hell of a lot of technical prowess and sophistication in the drum department for a lot of feel-good vibes. I've heard what MP has to say on drums and I love the side projects that he did. But for DT, I think we've returned to a much smaller world of rhythmic possibilities at a time when we could use more.

I agree with almost everything said here. Excellent post.

[Grizz]

I also concur. Honestly it felt like BSW was going against the general sense of nostalgic jubilation rather than attacking anyone in the band. I don't know how you could read that into their post at all.
If you want to tamp down on speculation, that's one thing, but the band sure didn't phrase anything in a way to make this sound like MM's prerogative.

[adastra]

Wow... What an unexpected news!  I kinda knew this was going to happen eventually, but never would have though that it would happen now out of the blue!

I was never very big fan of MM-era Dream Theater and got a little drawn away from the band.
Its hard to say what was my problem with it. There were good songs but overall the material became a little bit too polished and predictable. Maybe it was mostly because of that.... And I guess I am a MP-fanboy after all.

Still, I feel sad about MM leaving.  He was such a great character and good human being.
For me, it seems like there isn´t any bad blood, so that makes me happy.

Any way,  It´s great to see MP coming back. I really missed him.
But still, feeling kinda melancholic or solemn about it. 

[gzarruk]

I also concur. Honestly it felt like BSW was going against the general sense of nostalgic jubilation rather than attacking anyone in the band. I don't know how you could read that into their post at all.
If you want to tamp down on speculation, that's one thing, but they sure didn't phrase anything in a way to make this sound like MM's prerogative.

I agree with this as well.

[Herrick]

I also concur. Honestly it felt like BSW was going against the general sense of nostalgic jubilation rather than attacking anyone in the band. I don't know how you could read that into their post at all.
If you want to tamp down on speculation, that's one thing, but they sure didn't phrase anything in a way to make this sound like MM's prerogative.

I agree with this as well.

If I were in his position right now, I honestly would not know what I'd be allowed/not allowed to say on this forum 

[smegolas]

That's what I was hoping as well, but with the most metal guy of the five back in the band, I'm not so sure they're gonna be relatively mellow. For sure after d/t and View I think a more melodic approach was needed, and that we don't need the third album in a row of a huge wall of metal riffs and heavy sections with the occasional more melodic section here and there.

I hope for something more diverse like Dramatic - concise songs, more than a long song, a piano piece, an acoustic piece.... some variety, these musicians can do anything, why limit yourself to just one style for an album? there are ways to make an album coherent and consistent even if the songs are not the same kind of songs. It's been a while since I heard View and if you play me 30 random seconds off Sleeping Giant, Awaken the Master or Answering the Call I probably wouldn't be able to remember which song is which.

I think the new album being a concept album with the continuation of The Count of Tuscany story (the last song on the last album with Portnoy) is the natural way to go. 

LET ME INTRODUCE

MAH SISTAH

Shit dude I can’t stop laughing.

[bosk1]

It's quite simple.  Saying as fact that MM was "fired" is just flat out wrong, as nothing of the kind has been said by ANY official source.  And those saying they "agree" with that can consider themselves warned as well.  Again, NOBODY from any camp involved in any of this has said anything of the sort.  This forum will not be used as a tool to spread wild rumors like that. 

[Grizz]

And those saying they "agree" with that can consider themselves warned as well.

im sry officer I won't agree with the wrong opinion again

[Dedalus]

And those saying they "agree" with that can consider themselves warned as well.

im sry officer I won't agree with the wrong opinion again

Neither will I

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

It's quite simple.  Saying as fact that MM was "fired" is just flat out wrong, as nothing of the kind has been said by ANY official source.  And those saying they "agree" with that can consider themselves warned as well.  Again, NOBODY from any camp involved in any of this has said anything of the sort.  This forum will not be used as a tool to spread wild rumors like that. 

this is what i've been saying all along. clearly bosk, as a superior intellectual, with their insider information would know better than us peons.

here is a previous post where i argued how this is clearly NOT MM being fired:

yeah but you guys are assuming a band can only have 1 drummer. there are countless examples (esp in the jazz/jam world) of band with multiple drummers. MP returning doesn't necessarily mean MM had to go or was fired

[antigoon]

wow

[LudwigVan]

It's bittersweet for me. I can see why they did it, but I thought the Mangini run of albums was really quite excellent, Astonishing included.

[SwedishGoose]

It's bittersweet for me. I can see why they did it, but I thought the Mangini run of albums was really quite excellent, Astonishing included.

This indeed..... and for me The Astonishing tops everything they have done

[noxon]

Mangini is no longer in the band, and it was the bands decision to rehire Mike Portnoy at this time, and subsequently also follows that Mangini had to go. Regardless of whether this happened with Mangini resigning or them letting him go, is a pure technicality at this point. The decision order was that the band decided to get Portnoy back, and that left Mangini without a job.

[NunoTenniscourt]

When I first saw the Loudwire headline, I figured he was going to do just one show or something. My jaw dropped to the floor when I read the article.

To say this was unexpected and out of nowhere would be an understatement.

[Infinite Cactus]

Super excited that Mike's coming back but hot damn did it get spicy in here all of a sudden.

[3MinuteWarning]

Don't mind me, just crawling out of the woodwork...

I fell out of love with DT not long after MM was hired.  He wasn't the reason, I'd just felt less of a connection with each successive album since Octavarium.  I'm sure part of it was just growing up, I'd listened to DT since I was 12 or 13 years old and my tastes were changing as I went into my 20s.  I recently started listening to the odd DT track from a place of nostalgia and some of the material has resonated with me again more than I expected. 

Yesterday's announcement got me more excited than I could have anticipated and I'm really interested to hear what MP brings to the table after his time away.   

Time to get my guitar chops back up to scratch!

Also, glad this guy is still here

[Wim Kruithof]

A night of little sleep, lots of reading and contemplation has given me a perspective. There is a big void between the two outer ends of the spectrum, 'Mangini who quit at his own request' and 'Mangini was fired'. And while I want to be careful in word choices, I believe the most likely scenario lies somewhere in the middle.

Mangini is an artist who had a much bigger life than 'just' Dream Theater. For the other band members, the band consumes a much larger part of life. Dream Theater is much bigger for them than for Mangini. And when rumors came that Portnoy wanted to return, I wouldn't be surprised if Mangini voluntarily left the drum seat vacant. Out of respect for Dream Theater... and in the knowledge that he will remain happy in many other fields. I hope they reveal the transition later on, someday.

But most of all, although I am thrilled to see Portnoy return, I have the most respect of Mangini and adore all the work he've done. Mangini is not only gifted on drums, but also as a character. So much joy and life-energy, he really will be missed.

[MirrorMask]

Wow, what an absolute lovely post from MM under MP's post. He could have just said nothing, but he congratulated him. He's basically the reason why I'm not 100% happy with the reunion - the fact that such a gentleman and a world class drummer had to go!

About James' comments about "this is the final line-up", yesterday at home I didn't double check, but I'm damn sure that in the Mullmuzzler booklet (his first album of 1999) he welcomed Jordan in the band calling it "hopefully the last member change ever" 

[Dedalus]

Mangini is no longer in the band, and it was the bands decision to rehire Mike Portnoy at this time, and subsequently also follows that Mangini had to go. Regardless of whether this happened with Mangini resigning or them letting him go, is a pure technicality at this point. The decision order was that the band decided to get Portnoy back, and that left Mangini without a job.

I disagree that it is a mere technicality. It is relevant information.
I would like to know more clearly what happened.

[Zantera]

Mangini's statement starts with the sentence "I understand Dream Theater’s decision to get Mike Portnoy back at this time". Does not really sound like how you would open your statement if you were the one who made the decision right? Anything beyond that point is speculating of course but the statement itself is there for everyone to read and it's not very cryptic or anything.

Either way it does seem like a very amicable split so I doubt there will be much drama to come from this. Mike Mangini definitely deserves credit for being a stand up guy, he's been very nice about this. And you can't help but feel a little bit bad for the guy, he did a great job filling in for MP for over a decade, yet the fan reception and hype around MP coming back is unlike any hype during Mangini's time in the band. In less than 24 hours this thread about MP coming back has almost surpassed the Mike Mangini appreciation thread here - started in 2011 when he joined. There's just a certain magic of bringing back the 'classic' lineup that you can't match.