my most controversial take: awake is the worst DT album

[wolfking]

sorry for the click bait headline but i think i finally feel comfortable unveiling what i think might be my most controversial take: "awake" is dream theater's weakest album

first of all, when we talk about "awake" being the worst, it's all relative. it's like saying the worst ferrari is still a pretty darn good car. that being said, there are a few reasons why some fans might not rank "awake" as high as other dream theater albums. the production quality on "awake" is not up to par with some of their other albums. it's got this kind of muddy sound to it, and the mix just isn't as clear and crisp as, say, "metropolis pt. 2: scenes from a memory" or "images and words." when you're dealing with a band as technically proficient as dream theater, you want every note to shine, and "awake" falls short in that department.

then there's the songwriting. don't get me wrong, there are some great tracks on "awake," like "6:00" and "the mirror." but there are also some forgettable moments, like "innocence faded" and "a mind beside itself: iii. the silent man." it's not that these songs are bad per se, but they just don't reach the same level of complexity and emotional depth that we've come to expect from dream theater. another issue that some fans have with "awake" is the lyrics. they can be a bit on the cheesy side at times, and it feels like the band was trying a bit too hard to be profound. again, this is all relative, because dream theater has never been known for their lyrical prowess, but on "awake," it's particularly noticeable.

perhaps most interestingly enough, "awake" came at a time when the progressive metal scene was really starting to take off, with bands like tool and opeth pushing the boundaries of the genre. in comparison, "awake" feels a bit safe and formulaic. it's almost like dream theater was trying to fit into a mold rather than breaking new ground. while "awake" is by no means a bad album, i would consider it the worst in the dream theater discography because of its production quality, songwriting, lyrics, and the changing landscape of progressive metal at the time of its release.

i know that's probably a big take to let sink in - and to be clear i don't hate the album, but it always shakes out at the bottom of my ranking. what are your thoughts? music is subjective, and there are definitely fans out there who love "awake" just as much as any other dream theater album.

edit: perhaps most interesting about this all is i think my favorite DT song is space-dyed vest 

I agree with literally nothing in this post I think.

I also think Awake is easily one of their best sounding albums.  Maybe their best.

I do find it hard to fathom Awake being the worst when The Astonishing exists also.

[erciccio]

sorry for the click bait headline but i think i finally feel comfortable unveiling what i think might be my most controversial take: "awake" is dream theater's weakest album

first of all, when we talk about "awake" being the worst, it's all relative. it's like saying the worst ferrari is still a pretty darn good car. that being said, there are a few reasons why some fans might not rank "awake" as high as other dream theater albums. the production quality on "awake" is not up to par with some of their other albums. it's got this kind of muddy sound to it, and the mix just isn't as clear and crisp as, say, "metropolis pt. 2: scenes from a memory" or "images and words." when you're dealing with a band as technically proficient as dream theater, you want every note to shine, and "awake" falls short in that department.

then there's the songwriting. don't get me wrong, there are some great tracks on "awake," like "6:00" and "the mirror." but there are also some forgettable moments, like "innocence faded" and "a mind beside itself: iii. the silent man." it's not that these songs are bad per se, but they just don't reach the same level of complexity and emotional depth that we've come to expect from dream theater. another issue that some fans have with "awake" is the lyrics. they can be a bit on the cheesy side at times, and it feels like the band was trying a bit too hard to be profound. again, this is all relative, because dream theater has never been known for their lyrical prowess, but on "awake," it's particularly noticeable.

perhaps most interestingly enough, "awake" came at a time when the progressive metal scene was really starting to take off, with bands like tool and opeth pushing the boundaries of the genre. in comparison, "awake" feels a bit safe and formulaic. it's almost like dream theater was trying to fit into a mold rather than breaking new ground. while "awake" is by no means a bad album, i would consider it the worst in the dream theater discography because of its production quality, songwriting, lyrics, and the changing landscape of progressive metal at the time of its release.

i know that's probably a big take to let sink in - and to be clear i don't hate the album, but it always shakes out at the bottom of my ranking. what are your thoughts? music is subjective, and there are definitely fans out there who love "awake" just as much as any other dream theater album.

edit: perhaps most interesting about this all is i think my favorite DT song is space-dyed vest 

I agree just with two statements: the Mirror being a great song, and SDV being a top song.
I strongly disagree with all the rest, even as concerns the "sounding"...Awake sounds great, and the "dark" production is perfectly alinged with the "mood" of the album.

I am one of the fews here that thinks that the latest couple of albums are the worst "sounding", mainly due to La Brie's voice processing and the overall "loudness" of all rythmic sections (e.g when all instruments kick in in "The Alien" it just sounds incredibly messy to my hears... I struggle to understand what the riffing intention is at all)

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

people with deep connections to 80s hair bands and leather will definitely have a possible connection to awake i will never have

[Stadler]

people with deep connections to 80s hair bands and leather will definitely have a possible connection to awake i will never have

Isn't it sort of always the case that your path into a band really sets the tone for what you will tolerate or not tolerate with them?  I got into DT with I&W back in '92, so Awake was fresh for me, and it's one of my favorites (I think Kevin Moore had a real impact on the band's sound and I do miss him).  I don't know if it's "hair metal and leather", though I did dig that.   I just loved that TO ME DT was Iron Maiden and Rush jamming with Steve Perry singing. Awake was more of that (I never really bothered with the "gravelly singing" thing).   

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

i think i agree. my entrypoint was train of thought (though octavarium came out quickly after i discovered DT) so 8vm's sound and vibe (and the very brilliant prog of the title track) mixed with some of the more heavier stuff from ToT is kind of the "standard" i hold DT to as well. definitely see what you're saying. for me that made SC and Black Clouds fun because those records did kind of push and explore the edges they reached in ToT/8vm more

[HOF]

The irony there is ToT was kind of DT trying to get back to the heavier, darker side they showed on Awake. The fact that it hits at that same vibe in some places (Parts of Honor Your Father, Vacant, Stream of Consciousness especially) is ToT's main redeeming quality for me.

But yeah, when you get into a band always plays a big role in how you view different parts of their catalog. 

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

The irony there is ToT was kind of DT trying to get back to the heavier, darker side they showed on Awake. The fact that it hits at that same vibe in some places (Parts of Honor Your Father, Vacant, Stream of Consciousness especially) is ToT's main redeeming quality for me.

But yeah, when you get into a band always plays a big role in how you view different parts of their catalog. 

ah the parts of ToT i was talking about are more of the Stream of Consciousness stuff, the carnival prog (lol, i like it!), the MP vocals on honor thy father, etc.

[TAC]

I'm not aware of any hair metal influence on Awake. Innocence Faded is quite Journey-ish but that's not hair metal either.

[HOF]

I'm not aware of any hair metal influence on Awake. Innocence Faded is quite Journey-ish but that's not hair metal either.

Maybe because guys who did No More Tears produced it? But the music is definitely not hair metal-ish. The closest thing might be The Silent Man I guess if you want to say it's their "More Than Words."

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

haha, i wasn't trying to say the album sounded like a hair metal album. but let me put it this way:

if you encountered a random stranger on the sidewalk, and they had never heard of DT before in their life, but they were the biggest Warrant, Ratt, etc fan on the planet: which DT record are you recommending them?

[TAC]

haha, i wasn't trying to say the album sounded like a hair metal album. but let me put it this way:

if you encountered a random stranger on the sidewalk, and they had never heard of DT before in their life, but they were the biggest Warrant, Ratt, etc fan on the planet: which DT record are you recommending them?

Please shoot me if I ever encounter the biggest Ratt fan.

To answer the question..I'm not sure. Probably I&W. It wouldn't be Awake though. Maybe even FII.

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

haha to my brain i would offer them awake tho I&W would definitely be second. i feel like the prevalence of the prog passages on I&W would turn off a hair metal fan that was looking for something more straightforward, which is why awake comes to mind for me

[TAC]

haha to my brain i would offer them awake tho I&W would definitely be second. i feel like the prevalence of the prog passages on I&W would turn off a hair metal fan that was looking for something more straightforward, which is why awake comes to mind for me

Yeah, I follow that, but I&W has those Firehouse style vocals...and Another Day.

[hefdaddy42]

haha, i wasn't trying to say the album sounded like a hair metal album. but let me put it this way:

if you encountered a random stranger on the sidewalk, and they had never heard of DT before in their life, but they were the biggest Warrant, Ratt, etc fan on the planet: which DT record are you recommending them?

I don't know, which album would you offer to a reggae fan?

I wouldn't recommend any DT album to a Warrant or Ratt fan.

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

I don't know, which album would you offer to a reggae fan?

falling into infinity

[hefdaddy42]

I don't know, which album would you offer to a reggae fan?

falling into infinity

I get it

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

i knew you would

[pg1067]

if you encountered a random stranger on the sidewalk, and they had never heard of DT before in their life, but they were the biggest Warrant, Ratt, etc fan on the planet: which DT record are you recommending them?

The biggest Ratt fan probably isn't going to want a DT recommendation, but I'm thinking it'd probably The Astonishing.  Maybe FII or I&W.  Definitely not Awake.

I&W has those Firehouse style vocals

Huh??

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

The biggest Ratt fan probably isn't going to want a DT recommendation, but I'm thinking it'd probably The Astonishing.  Maybe FII or I&W.  Definitely not Awake.

how come the astonishing? the other two i see a bit but curious on that one

[ProgMasterMind92]

because both ratt and the astonishing suck

[DoctorAction]

 

Awake rules.

"Melody walks through the door
And memory flies out the window"

"And how come you don't understand me?
And how come I don't understand you?"

Huge amount of strong, affecting moments on it. Top tier.

[HOF]

I&W is definitely the closest to "hair metal" that DT got (maybe some things on WDADU too). I don't think FII would particularly appeal to a hair metal fan. I think their newer albums with MM are closer to a hair metal sound too.

[YtseJam]

Space Dye Vest is the only bad song on the album. I could live without ever hearing Lie again too, otherwise it's a pretty solid album.

[Jamesman42]

The thing I appreciate about Lie is that it gives the album a nice break from the more complex songs that precede it. Just a nice, rocking song that fits within the album's mood, but relatively straightforward.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

Lie is a terrible DT song...I am cool with every other track on the album. Even the more bloated ones.

[Wim Kruithof]

Lie is a terrible DT song...

I can't imagine one really finds Lie that bad. I'll admit it's not the virual top of Awake, but the riffs are good, I like the lyrics, the chorus and that Petrucci-solo is as prog as a solo can be.

Although I would have loved it the most, if both The Mirror and Lie were inner-twined as a single song, The Lying Mirror...

[ProgMasterMind92]

sounds like we have some doubting thomases in here........... embarrassing

[wolfking]

people with deep connections to 80s hair bands and leather will definitely have a possible connection to awake i will never have

Huh?

[wolfking]

haha, i wasn't trying to say the album sounded like a hair metal album. but let me put it this way:

if you encountered a random stranger on the sidewalk, and they had never heard of DT before in their life, but they were the biggest Warrant, Ratt, etc fan on the planet: which DT record are you recommending them?

None.  Ratt fans don't deserve to hear Dream Theater.

[Skeever]

I can see it being pretty low in somebody's ranking, but the worst? That is pretty extreme to me. There are only two albums which I would expect to see at the very bottom of anyone's ranking, WDADU and the Astonishing.

[Jamesman42]

I can see it being pretty low in somebody's ranking, but the worst? That is pretty extreme to me. There are only two albums which I would expect to see at the very bottom of anyone's ranking, WDADU and the Astonishing.

This, though I say that without having heard DoT.

[PMSummer]

I can see it being pretty low in somebody's ranking, but the worst? That is pretty extreme to me. There are only two albums which I would expect to see at the very bottom of anyone's ranking, WDADU and the Astonishing.

This, though I say that without having heard DoT.

How come you skipped that one but did listen to view?

[Wim Kruithof]

This, though I say that without having heard DoT.

You've spend so much time in here, but hasn't listen to Distance Over Time. Do you really mean that?

[Jamesman42]

I went for a long while not posting here, which spanned their last few albums. I only recently listened to View and Astonishing, because View is their latest (and pretty bland) and Astonishing gets a lot of hate (which I now know it deserves). DoT is next for me to catch up on.

[Wim Kruithof]

I see... I truly believe The Astonishing doesn't deserve the hate it gets, however. I red the book multiple times, saw the whole walkthrough from Peter Orullian and spend many hours on the concept. The more I listen to the vinyl, the more beautiful it turns out to be.