my most controversial take: awake is the worst DT album

[CraftyCaleb2483]

"awake" is dream theater's weakest album

Maybe not the worst, but definitely one of their worst, I really did not like JP's guitar tone in that album, along with too much 7-string

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

Maybe not the worst, but definitely one of their worst, I really did not like JP's guitar tone in that album, along with too much 7-string

You should check my recent posts in this thread. I've been having an epiphany about it this summer. For the first time in a decade lol

[Setlist Scotty]

Maybe not the worst, but definitely one of their worst, I really did not like JP's guitar tone in that album, along with too much 7-string

There's only 3 out of 11 songs with 7-string - I can't see that being "too much".

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

There's only 3 out of 11 songs with 7-string - I can't see that being "too much".

Which three?

[Setlist Scotty]

Caught in a Web, The Mirror and Lie.

[CraftyCaleb2483]

There's only 3 out of 11 songs with 7-string

That's still too much!

[WilliamMunny]

Quote from: Caleb on 7/17/2024, 3:59:22 AMThat's still too much! Considering how much the 7-string became a mainstay in JP's arsenal from that point forward, I'm surprised you hung on as a fan.

Off the top of my head...


• •     A Change of Seasons
  •     A View from the Top of the World
  •     Answering the Call
  •     Behind the Veil
  •     Bridges in the Sky
  •     Build Me Up, Break Me Down
  •     Caught in a Web
  •     Just Let Me Breathe
  •     Lie
  •     New Millennium
  •     Outcry
  •     Pale Blue Dot
  •     Dance of Eternity
  •     The Dark Eternal Night
  •     The Enemy Inside
  •     The Glass Prison
  •     The Mirror
  •     The Shattered Fortress
  •     This Dying Soul

So, basically every song that begins with 'the'

Seriously, though, it's a huge part of the band's sound and I think it's fair to say that JP rarely, if ever, stumbled into Korn-adjacent 'chugga, chugga' territory. If "A Change of Seasons" doesn't make a case for the 7-string, I'm not sure what will.

[CraftyCaleb2483]

Quote from: Caleb on 7/17/2024, 3:59:22 AMThat's still too much! Considering how much the 7-string became a mainstay in JP's arsenal from that point forward, I'm surprised you hung on as a fan.

Off the top of my head...


• •     A Change of Seasons
  •     A View from the Top of the World
  •     Answering the Call
  •     Behind the Veil
  •     Bridges in the Sky
  •     Build Me Up, Break Me Down
  •     Caught in a Web
  •     Just Let Me Breathe
  •     Lie
  •     New Millennium
  •     Outcry
  •     Pale Blue Dot
  •     Dance of Eternity
  •     The Dark Eternal Night
  •     The Enemy Inside
  •     The Glass Prison
  •     The Mirror
  •     The Shattered Fortress
  •     This Dying Soul

So, basically every song that begins with 'the'

Seriously, though, it's a huge part of the band's sound and I think it's fair to say that JP rarely, if ever, stumbled into Korn-adjacent 'chugga, chugga' territory. If "A Change of Seasons" doesn't make a case for the 7-string, I'm not sure what will.

To be fair, I don't like most of those songs other than A Change Of Seasons and The Dance Of Eternity 
And I agree with a 7-string being used for clean sections

[Trav]

A lot of songs on The Astonishing are 7-string. Not necessarily heavy parts either.

[CraftyCaleb2483]

A lot of songs on The Astonishing are 7-string. Not necessarily heavy parts either.

I haven't noticed that, maybe because I only listened through the album once

[Trav]

I haven't noticed that, maybe because I only listened through the album once

There's a thread where someone listed the guitar tunings for every song. That will show it.

[hefdaddy42]

To be fair, I don't like most of those songs other than A Change Of Seasons and The Dance Of Eternity 
And I agree with a 7-string being used for clean sections

Maybe this isn't the band for you

[Trav]

Maybe this isn't the band for you

 

[Lonk]

Off the top of my head...
• •     A Change of Seasons
  •     A View from the Top of the World
  •     Answering the Call
  •     Behind the Veil
  •     Bridges in the Sky
  •     Build Me Up, Break Me Down
  •     Caught in a Web
  •     Just Let Me Breathe
  •     Lie
  •     New Millennium
  •     Outcry
  •     Pale Blue Dot
  •     Dance of Eternity
  •     The Dark Eternal Night
  •     The Enemy Inside
  •     The Glass Prison
  •     The Mirror
  •     The Shattered Fortress
  •     This Dying Soul

Dude!, You forgot Raw Dog

The Bigger Picture, Enigma Machine, Illumination Theory, Room 137, Viper King, and a whole bunch from TA as well.

[WilliamMunny]

Dude!, You forgot Raw Dog

The Bigger Picture, Enigma Machine, Illumination Theory, Room 137, Viper King, and a whole bunch from TA as well.

Hey, I thought I did pretty good for an 'off the top of my head' post... it's still early!

[CraftyCaleb2483]

Maybe this isn't the band for you

Nope, it definitely is!

[HOF]

I don't think I've ever thought about which songs are played on a 7 string guitar or been bothered by its presence in particular on the songs mentioned that have it.

[hefdaddy42]

I don't think I've ever thought about which songs are played on a 7 string guitar or been bothered by its presence in particular on the songs mentioned that have it.

Me neither.

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

Me neither.

Me either but I could see someone being upset if they wanted to learn all the DT songs on guitar and they couldn't play these because they couldn't afford a 7 string. Maybe next album will only use 6-string guitars so working class people can learn the songs too

[hefdaddy42]

Me either but I could see someone being upset if they wanted to learn all the DT songs on guitar and they couldn't play these because they couldn't afford a 7 string. Maybe next album will only use 6-string guitars so working class people can learn the songs too

what

[brakkum]

Maybe next album will only use 6-string guitars so working class people can learn the songs too

I know money is tight for lots of people, but they're really not that expensive to get started with anymore. proof

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

The 7 string has been around for nearly the entire history of the band so it's a well established tool in JP's box. I tend to think more about the riffs played with it than anything else. Have had very few gripes thus far.

[Jamesman42]

Me either but I could see someone being upset if they wanted to learn all the DT songs on guitar and they couldn't play these because they couldn't afford a 7 string. Maybe next album will only use 6-string guitars so working class people can learn the songs too

Nah, JP won't do that, now the new album is called You Can Dream Theater

[DT05]

You know here's what I think. Awake confused me when I first heard it. I didn't get it. But slowly I listened to it on repeat because it intrigued me, it made no sense to my ears. I was 14 years old so of course I didn't recognize much in it that I knew from radio. Slowly though the album opened up in so many ways, and in a sweet spot of 2007 and 2008 I probably loved Awake more than any other time in my life.

However...
nowadays if I were to pick songs to play from that album, most of them are in that overplayed tier or are in that "young angst cringe" phase of my life's playlists. "The Mirror" / "Lie" are completely shot for me. "Caught in a Web" is like a historic document now. "The Silent Man" was always one where I preferred the Acoustic Dreams bootleg version anyway. "6:00" is just "6:00". "Lifting Shadows Off a Dream" was my ballad of choice for so long that I ran it into the ground. Even the immaculate "Space Dye Vest" is mostly a distant memory to me, days playing Game Boy in my parent's room while it was raining outside, knowing the power would go out. It's fun to hear it and remember but to play it in a contemporary sense, I dunno.

But, two songs that really have stood the test of time for me off that album, "Innocence Faded" which I always thought was unfairly lambasted, still to this day one of the best pieces of guitar music I've ever heard and the vocal melody is still as infectious as ever, and "Voices", a song that ought to be considered one of their best longer ones even though it isn't that long to qualify as long. These two are so amazing to me, and closely running it up is "Scarred" which took me a few years later to even appreciate. These are the songs that keep my love for Awake active.

[CraftyCaleb2483]

Maybe next album will only use 6-string guitars so working class people can learn the songs too

If somebody's good enough at guitar to play DT songs, I doubt they'd be in the working class!

[Adami]

If somebody's good enough at guitar to play DT songs, I doubt they'd be in the working class!

Huh? YouTube is filled with people all over the world who can play DT songs. I'm pretty sure most aren't terribly wealthy.

[WilliamMunny]

Huh? YouTube is filled with people all over the world who can play DT songs. I'm pretty sure most aren't terribly wealthy.

Yeah, it will literally be two hours after DT drops their next single for a hundred 'how to play' videos to appear on youtube, mostly brought to you by the 12 year old down the street.

[CraftyCaleb2483]

I'm pretty sure most aren't terribly wealthy.

From what I've seen, most of them are sporting PRS's and Music Man's, both of which are very expensive

[Adami]

From what I've seen, most of them are sporting PRS's and Music Man's, both of which are very expensive

So? Working class people can sometimes afford a nice thing or two.

[ReaperKK]

If somebody's good enough at guitar to play DT songs, I doubt they'd be in the working class!

What?

[WilliamMunny]

From what I've seen, most of them are sporting PRS's and Music Man's, both of which are very expensive

An iPhone coast $1500, and there are plenty to be found in the projects down the street from where I am...I think you are conflating two very unrelated things–a single possession does not necessarily correlate to one's class.

[Lonk]

From what I've seen, most of them are sporting PRS's and Music Man's, both of which are very expensive

But what you see on Youtube is just a very small representation of people that play DT's music. Not everyone has a music studio with great equipment. Most people that play music don't even record themselves playing.

Also, I bought my first music man while working a minimum wage job.

[WilliamMunny]

But what you see on Youtube is just a very small representation of people that play DT's music. Not everyone has a music studio with great equipment. Most people that play music don't even record themselves playing.

Also, I bought my first music man while working a minimum wage job.

You and me both!

I was making $4.25/hr (yikes!) back in 2000 when I purchased my first JP6.

Fun fact, I've owned a ton of instruments since, but it's still my main guitar.

[Lonk]

You and me both!

I was making $4.25/hr (yikes!) back in 2000 when I purchased my first JP6.

Fun fact, I've owned a ton of instruments since, but it's still my main guitar.

Funny enough, a JP6 was my second music man guitar but I had to sell it  Around that time, I owned 7 guitars. I lowered that number to 2 because of lack space, but I bought a Masjesty from a fellow member here a few years ago.

[Lax]

I love this topic ):

I agree Awake can't be ranked among the best DT albums...But it's a matter of context and there are several hypothesis :
-The keyboardist transition : Leading to somewhat unique songs like Lie. But didn't his initiated what became modern DT with chugchug and less proggy keyboard wiggles over time ?

-The release : Dream theater was putting the stones defining prog metal, I&W was an earthquake and awake sounded surprisingly different, like expanding the palette.
Over time and with albums like SFAM or SDOIT, the effect washed away because the album sounds less daring.

-The songs : I rank DT albums thinking about the ratio of songs I like/dislike, let's say between 50% and 80% (or lower for the astonishing), and many are higher than awake to me, so it would be my main reason it's not in the good tier.

To quote one of the first messages that is I guess the truth : It's a mid album but with hell of great riffs and solos !