my most controversial take: awake is the worst DT album

[Jamesman42]

I didn't know there was a book.

[Skeever]

I see... I truly believe The Astonishing doesn't deserve the hate it gets, however. I red the book multiple times, saw the whole walkthrough from Peter Orullian and spend many hours on the concept. The more I listen to the vinyl, the more beautiful it turns out to be.

I don't mean to say that the Astonishing is bad, but it can't be appreciated fully without getting deep into the concept like that, I think. Which is why I think it ranks so low. Many fans who had the patience to read the book and get fully invested in the concept liked it a lot, but a good chunk of fans are just never going to read the book.

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

the most interesting thing i learned from this thread on the last page is that apparently everyone hates Ratt fans

as a very much ignorant listener when it comes to hair metal i had no idea they were so hated lmao

[hefdaddy42]

I didn't know there was a book.

I have it because I'm a DT fan and collector.

But let's just say it won't be taught in any literature courses any time soon.

[Metro]

Font forget about the Astonishing video game

https://youtu.be/0QtMgs_TS0U?si=LamFrCE3NqBe4GLK

[Stadler]

the most interesting thing i learned from this thread on the last page is that apparently everyone hates Ratt fans

as a very much ignorant listener when it comes to hair metal i had no idea they were so hated lmao

I was never a huge hair metal guy, but then again, I never judged what band I liked based on their genre.   Having said that, Ratt always made me scratch my head in confusion.  Yeah, they had Warren DeMartini, who was (is?) a great guitar player, but they also had Stephen Pearcy who is on the level of Anthony Keidis in terms of out kicking his coverage on the vocal front. 

[Lonk]

Font forget about the Astonishing video game

https://youtu.be/0QtMgs_TS0U?si=LamFrCE3NqBe4GLK

I think I played that game for a total of 10 minutes.

I bought a signed copy of the book, and it's just sitting on the bookshelf. I'll get to it eventually.

[pg1067]

The biggest Ratt fan probably isn't going to want a DT recommendation, but I'm thinking it'd probably The Astonishing.  Maybe FII or I&W.  Definitely not Awake.

how come the astonishing? the other two i see a bit but curious on that one

While a Ratt fan isn't likely to want to sit through a 6 1/2 hour concept album (rough approximation of how long it feels), it includes some of the most bland, pop-ish metal DT ever released.

I see... I truly believe The Astonishing doesn't deserve the hate it gets, however. I red the book multiple times, saw the whole walkthrough from Peter Orullian and spend many hours on the concept. The more I listen to the vinyl, the more beautiful it turns out to be.

Eh...I think it deserves what it gets.  I don't think anyone HATES it.  It's just poorly regarded overall for reasons that even those who love it should understand.  I don't know who Peter Orullian is, but if one has to read a book to appreciate a 130-minute album, then the album probably isn't very good.  And, unless the vinyl version has different material than the CD, so don't see why that should matter.

the most interesting thing i learned from this thread on the last page is that apparently everyone hates Ratt fans

as a very much ignorant listener when it comes to hair metal i had no idea they were so hated lmao

Not everyone.  People like all sorts of tripe.  Ratt...Cardi B...Taylor Swift...etc.  Like what you like; it doesn't bother me.  We're being hyperbolic.  Ratt was the very first rock band I saw live (opening for Ozzy in 1984).  I thought they were great.  I owned Out of the Cellar and bought Invasion of Your Privacy.  I didn't replace those albums with CDs and trashed them why I dumped my turntable and remaining vinyl in 1997/98.

[Stadler]

The biggest Ratt fan probably isn't going to want a DT recommendation, but I'm thinking it'd probably The Astonishing.  Maybe FII or I&W.  Definitely not Awake.

how come the astonishing? the other two i see a bit but curious on that one

While a Ratt fan isn't likely to want to sit through a 6 1/2 hour concept album (rough approximation of how long it feels), it includes some of the most bland, pop-ish metal DT ever released.

I see... I truly believe The Astonishing doesn't deserve the hate it gets, however. I red the book multiple times, saw the whole walkthrough from Peter Orullian and spend many hours on the concept. The more I listen to the vinyl, the more beautiful it turns out to be.

Eh...I think it deserves what it gets.  I don't think anyone HATES it.  It's just poorly regarded overall for reasons that even those who love it should understand.  I don't know who Peter Orullian is, but if one has to read a book to appreciate a 130-minute album, then the album probably isn't very good.  And, unless the vinyl version has different material than the CD, so don't see why that should matter.

the most interesting thing i learned from this thread on the last page is that apparently everyone hates Ratt fans

as a very much ignorant listener when it comes to hair metal i had no idea they were so hated lmao

Not everyone.  People like all sorts of tripe.  Ratt...Cardi B...Taylor Swift...etc.  Like what you like; it doesn't bother me.  We're being hyperbolic.  Ratt was the very first rock band I saw live (opening for Ozzy in 1984).  I thought they were great.  I owned Out of the Cellar and bought Invasion of Your Privacy.  I didn't replace those albums with CDs and trashed them why I dumped my turntable and remaining vinyl in 1997/98.

For clarity purposes, Taylor Swift is not tripe by any standard.  She is fast approaching (if she's not already there) being this generation's Bruce Springsteen (who was last generation's Bob Dylan). 

[HOF]

Taylor is a way better musician/writer than either Bruce or Dylan IMO. 

[Adami]

Taylor is a way better musician/writer than either Bruce or Dylan IMO. 

She's definitely taller at least.

[pg1067]

She's no Stephen Pearcy.

[ProgMasterMind92]

we've got people still denying taylor's talent in the year of our lord 2023............. insane............... such a 2009 thing to do i thought humanity had progressed past such things

[Skeever]

Every time I hear Taylor Swift in public (which is every time I'm out in public) I have the same thought of "I don't get it." Praying daily for her moment to come to a "swift" end 

[ProgMasterMind92]

you've been waiting 15 years and you'll be waiting another 15

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

taylor swift is my mom

[Wim Kruithof]

Eh...I think it deserves what it gets.  I don't think anyone HATES it.  It's just poorly regarded overall for reasons that even those who love it should understand.  I don't know who Peter Orullian is, but if one has to read a book to appreciate a 130-minute album, then the album probably isn't very good.  And, unless the vinyl version has different material than the CD, so don't see why that should matter.

pg1067, Orullian is a singer and a writer and he's the one Petrucci asked to write the novell. I could throw multiple reasons in the pit why The Astonishing really is a special conceptalbum which is very well constructed, but it doesn't gonna turn your point of view, neather is this thread the right place to do so.

[Herrick]

Every time I hear Taylor Swift in public (which is every time I'm out in public) I have the same thought of "I don't get it." Praying daily for her moment to come to a "swift" end 

If I heard one of her songs out in public, I wouldn't even know if it was one of her songs. What is it, pop music pretty much? I've never really been into that.

[Stadler]

Every time I hear Taylor Swift in public (which is every time I'm out in public) I have the same thought of "I don't get it." Praying daily for her moment to come to a "swift" end 

Eh, I respect your position but I don't agree with it at all.  Bob Dylan is unlistenable to me.  I have a grand total of nine Bob Dylan songs on my iPod (out of 43,500 more or less).   But regardless of what I feel, it's undeniable that he is our - America's - greatest living musician in terms of his catalogue, his impact and his enduring message.  Springsteen is number two.   I think Taylor Swift is number three. 

There are stadiums full of people for whom she is a voice, for whom she is tapping into that great American story telling experience, in the same way that legions of fans tapped into Bruce's version of the American working man.

Hell, I'm a 56-year-old twice-married straight white male father of four and she's got songs where I'm like "YES, that's IT!  How did you know?"  Haha.  Certainly, I resonate more with the words of Taylor Swift than I do someone like Thom fucking Yorke.  (The point being, I'm far more in Thom's target audience - and he missed me - than I am in Taylor's, and yet she nailed it).

[HOF]

I am not really a Taylor Swift fan per se, but I'm subjected to various aspects of her catalog daily, and there is obvious talent both musically and from a writing perspective. She has a pretty unique voice that she uses to great affect (there are lots of subtle little ways she manipulates her voice or says different phrases that are really interesting). There are things she's done that I don't think are very sophisticated as well, but most of her recent stuff from 1989 onward is really well crafted and performed pop.

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

you guys know what i would listen to?

Awake (Taylor's Version)

[Adami]

Every time I hear Taylor Swift in public (which is every time I'm out in public) I have the same thought of "I don't get it." Praying daily for her moment to come to a "swift" end 

Eh, I respect your position but I don't agree with it at all.  Bob Dylan is unlistenable to me.  I have a grand total of nine Bob Dylan songs on my iPod (out of 43,500 more or less).   But regardless of what I feel, it's undeniable that he is our - America's - greatest living musician in terms of his catalogue, his impact and his enduring message.  Springsteen is number two.   I think Taylor Swift is number three. 

There are stadiums full of people for whom she is a voice, for whom she is tapping into that great American story telling experience, in the same way that legions of fans tapped into Bruce's version of the American working man.

Hell, I'm a 56-year-old twice-married straight white male father of four and she's got songs where I'm like "YES, that's IT!  How did you know?"  Haha.  Certainly, I resonate more with the words of Taylor Swift than I do someone like Thom fucking Yorke.  (The point being, I'm far more in Thom's target audience - and he missed me - than I am in Taylor's, and yet she nailed it).

Wouldn't Beyonce be in your top 3 by that measurement?

I haven't gotten into TS yet, but would like to find a way in. Can you recommend one album to start with? Doesn't have to be career defining or whatever, just something I might enjoy enough to check out more stuff.

[HOF]

Every time I hear Taylor Swift in public (which is every time I'm out in public) I have the same thought of "I don't get it." Praying daily for her moment to come to a "swift" end 

Eh, I respect your position but I don't agree with it at all.  Bob Dylan is unlistenable to me.  I have a grand total of nine Bob Dylan songs on my iPod (out of 43,500 more or less).   But regardless of what I feel, it's undeniable that he is our - America's - greatest living musician in terms of his catalogue, his impact and his enduring message.  Springsteen is number two.   I think Taylor Swift is number three. 

There are stadiums full of people for whom she is a voice, for whom she is tapping into that great American story telling experience, in the same way that legions of fans tapped into Bruce's version of the American working man.

Hell, I'm a 56-year-old twice-married straight white male father of four and she's got songs where I'm like "YES, that's IT!  How did you know?"  Haha.  Certainly, I resonate more with the words of Taylor Swift than I do someone like Thom fucking Yorke.  (The point being, I'm far more in Thom's target audience - and he missed me - than I am in Taylor's, and yet she nailed it).

Wouldn't Beyonce be in your top 3 by that measurement?

I haven't gotten into TS yet, but would like to find a way in. Can you recommend one album to start with? Doesn't have to be career defining or whatever, just something I might enjoy enough to check out more stuff.

Not Stadler, but 1989 and Folklore will probably give you a good idea if you'll like her or not.

[Skeever]

Not sure who I'd consider a successor to Dylan or Springsteen.
With those two, it's not really all about popularity. Dylan was not that popular in the 60s (he was selling out theaters - not stadiums). He was never "The Beatles". He has been loved for decades though, because the substance behind the music outlived any particular trends of the day. Still, to this day, he is not and has never really been a "stadium" artist. With Bruce, it's kinda the same. He got there (stadiums, screaming obsessive fans), but it was never built on that.

To be the next Springsteen, or Dylan, implies not just a certain level of mainstream acceptance, but also a certain level of substance behind the music. Taylor, to me, has too much of the former, not enough of the latter. If I'm picking "my generation's" Bruce Springsteen, I'd be more inclined to go with someone like Jay Z.

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

Not sure who I'd consider a successor to Dylan or Springsteen.
With those two, it's not really all about popularity. Dylan was not that popular in the 60s (he was selling out theaters - not stadiums). He was never "The Beatles". He has been loved for decades though, because the substance behind the music outlived any particular trends of the day. Still, to this day, he is not and has never really been a "stadium" artist. With Bruce, it's kinda the same. He got there (stadiums, screaming obsessive fans), but it was never built on that.

To be the next Springsteen, or Dylan, implies not just a certain level of mainstream acceptance, but also a certain level of substance behind the music. Taylor, to me, has too much of the former, not enough of the latter. If I'm picking "my generation's" Bruce Springsteen, I'd be more inclined to go with someone like Jay Z.

i love Taylor Swift with all my heart but if i had to pick an heir for the dylan/springsteen legacy it would definitely be barack obama

i mean, it might sound a bit unconventional, but bear with me here.

first off, let's talk about bob dylan. he's known for his powerful lyrics and his ability to capture the spirit of a generation. dylan's songs were like anthems for the social and political upheaval of the 1960s. now, think about obama's speeches. this man has a way with words that's just mesmerizing. he has that same ability to inspire and unite people with his words, much like dylan did back in the day. it's like they both have this innate talent for storytelling that can move people to action.

then there's bruce springsteen, the boss. his music is all about the working class, the struggles of everyday folks, and the American dream. sound familiar? well, it should because obama's whole political career has been centered around those same themes. he's fought for healthcare, workers' rights, and economic equality. it's like he's been singing springsteen's songs through his policies.

but it's not just about the content of their work; it's also about the way they connect with people. both dylan and springsteen are known for their live performances, where they pour their hearts and souls into their music, creating an intimate connection with their audiences. and guess what? obama has that same charisma. he can command a room, captivate a crowd, and make you feel like you're part of something bigger.

now, i know what you're thinking. "but obama's a politician, not a musician!" and you're right, but here's the thing: music and politics aren't all that different. both are forms of expression that can shape culture and society. and just like dylan and springsteen used their music to make a difference, obama used his political platform to bring about change. his presidency was like a long, complex song, with each policy and decision contributing to the overall narrative.

so, in my humble opinion, barack obama might just be the heir to bob dylan and bruce springsteen in his own unique way. he's carried on their tradition of using words and influence to make a positive impact on the world. whether you agree or not, you gotta admit, there's something undeniably poetic about it all.

[ProgMasterMind92]

music is a vast and diverse realm. it's subjective, and what one person loves, another might not. taylor swift has carved out her own niche in the music world with her unique style. while dream theater is known for their complex compositions, taylor shines with her songwriting and storytelling skills. it's a different kind of talent but definitely worth appreciation.

similarly, both artists bring emotions to their music in their own ways. dream theater's intricate melodies and instrumentals can stir deep feelings, and taylor's heartfelt lyrics and melodies do the same. if you're drawn to music that evokes emotions, both can deliver on that front.

it's easy to get stuck in one's preferred genre, but exploring different styles can be an enriching experience. taylor swift has a massive fan base for a reason, and her music has resonated with millions. if you're a fan of dream theater, you might be pleasantly surprised by the depth and artistry in her work if you give it a chance.

in the end, it's all about enjoying music, and there's room for various genres and artists in our musical journeys. so, keep an open mind and let the music speak for itself.

Not sure who I'd consider a successor to Dylan or Springsteen.
With those two, it's not really all about popularity. Dylan was not that popular in the 60s (he was selling out theaters - not stadiums). He was never "The Beatles". He has been loved for decades though, because the substance behind the music outlived any particular trends of the day. Still, to this day, he is not and has never really been a "stadium" artist. With Bruce, it's kinda the same. He got there (stadiums, screaming obsessive fans), but it was never built on that.

To be the next Springsteen, or Dylan, implies not just a certain level of mainstream acceptance, but also a certain level of substance behind the music. Taylor, to me, has too much of the former, not enough of the latter. If I'm picking "my generation's" Bruce Springsteen, I'd be more inclined to go with someone like Jay Z.

ok boomer

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

anyway to try and get back on topic () i am now super intrigued and interested in hearing Awake (Taylor's Version)

you take awake, the dream theater album, and modernize it a bit, like without some of the hair metal vibes i mentioned in the last page (sorry, Ratt fans ) and then you have Taylor record the lyrics. her take on SDV would be soo good

[HOF]

anyway to try and get back on topic () i am now super intrigued and interested in hearing Awake (Taylor's Version)

you take awake, the dream theater album, and modernize it a bit, like without some of the hair metal vibes i mentioned in the last page (sorry, Ratt fans ) and then you have Taylor record the lyrics. her take on SDV would be soo good

Not even being ironic, I think that would be really cool (it would fit her lower register well I bet). A Taylor Swift and Kevin Moore collaboration might be amazing.

[Stadler]

you guys know what i would listen to?

Awake (Taylor's Version)

HAHAHAHA That got a laugh out loud.

[Stadler]

Every time I hear Taylor Swift in public (which is every time I'm out in public) I have the same thought of "I don't get it." Praying daily for her moment to come to a "swift" end 

Eh, I respect your position but I don't agree with it at all.  Bob Dylan is unlistenable to me.  I have a grand total of nine Bob Dylan songs on my iPod (out of 43,500 more or less).   But regardless of what I feel, it's undeniable that he is our - America's - greatest living musician in terms of his catalogue, his impact and his enduring message.  Springsteen is number two.   I think Taylor Swift is number three. 

There are stadiums full of people for whom she is a voice, for whom she is tapping into that great American story telling experience, in the same way that legions of fans tapped into Bruce's version of the American working man.

Hell, I'm a 56-year-old twice-married straight white male father of four and she's got songs where I'm like "YES, that's IT!  How did you know?"  Haha.  Certainly, I resonate more with the words of Taylor Swift than I do someone like Thom fucking Yorke.  (The point being, I'm far more in Thom's target audience - and he missed me - than I am in Taylor's, and yet she nailed it).

Wouldn't Beyonce be in your top 3 by that measurement?

I haven't gotten into TS yet, but would like to find a way in. Can you recommend one album to start with? Doesn't have to be career defining or whatever, just something I might enjoy enough to check out more stuff.

Not Stadler, but 1989 and Folklore will probably give you a good idea if you'll like her or not.

HOF nailed it.

[Stadler]

Not sure who I'd consider a successor to Dylan or Springsteen.
With those two, it's not really all about popularity. Dylan was not that popular in the 60s (he was selling out theaters - not stadiums). He was never "The Beatles". He has been loved for decades though, because the substance behind the music outlived any particular trends of the day. Still, to this day, he is not and has never really been a "stadium" artist. With Bruce, it's kinda the same. He got there (stadiums, screaming obsessive fans), but it was never built on that.

To be the next Springsteen, or Dylan, implies not just a certain level of mainstream acceptance, but also a certain level of substance behind the music. Taylor, to me, has too much of the former, not enough of the latter. If I'm picking "my generation's" Bruce Springsteen, I'd be more inclined to go with someone like Jay Z.

I like your criteria, but - and we can disagree here - I think Swift has WAY more substance than she gets credit for, even now, and that's also why she's a step ahead of Beyonce.   I don't think Beyonce has quite transcended yet, and Taylor did with...  hmmmm... maybe Reputation.  I don't have her on the list because of stadia, though that's part of it, but because I just think she's taken the craft of songwriting to a new level that transcends her genre. 

[Dream Team]

we've got people still denying taylor's talent in the year of our lord 2023............. insane............... such a 2009 thing to do i thought humanity had progressed past such things

https://thefoodandrant.wordpress.com/2010/08/16/swiftrant-10-reasons-why-taylor-swift-sucks/
https://www.theodysseyonline.com/13-reasons-why-taylor-swift-overrated
https://www.theodysseyonline.com/taylor-swift-kind-sucks

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

those articles are all from 2010-2017 fyi. i don't disagree with your point overall but using 6-13 year old articles isn't really proving much

[Adami]

Every time I hear Taylor Swift in public (which is every time I'm out in public) I have the same thought of "I don't get it." Praying daily for her moment to come to a "swift" end 

Eh, I respect your position but I don't agree with it at all.  Bob Dylan is unlistenable to me.  I have a grand total of nine Bob Dylan songs on my iPod (out of 43,500 more or less).   But regardless of what I feel, it's undeniable that he is our - America's - greatest living musician in terms of his catalogue, his impact and his enduring message.  Springsteen is number two.   I think Taylor Swift is number three. 

There are stadiums full of people for whom she is a voice, for whom she is tapping into that great American story telling experience, in the same way that legions of fans tapped into Bruce's version of the American working man.

Hell, I'm a 56-year-old twice-married straight white male father of four and she's got songs where I'm like "YES, that's IT!  How did you know?"  Haha.  Certainly, I resonate more with the words of Taylor Swift than I do someone like Thom fucking Yorke.  (The point being, I'm far more in Thom's target audience - and he missed me - than I am in Taylor's, and yet she nailed it).

Wouldn't Beyonce be in your top 3 by that measurement?

I haven't gotten into TS yet, but would like to find a way in. Can you recommend one album to start with? Doesn't have to be career defining or whatever, just something I might enjoy enough to check out more stuff.

Not Stadler, but 1989 and Folklore will probably give you a good idea if you'll like her or not.

HOF nailed it.

Downloaded from Spotify. Will listen!

[Jamesman42]

Taylor Swift is fine. Not going out my way to listen to her, but I like a few of the older songs (I Knew You Were Trouble is awesome in particular).