Why are DT fans so critical?

[Skeever]

Probably a lot of us went through a similar cycle.

1. OMG have you heard these guys, greatest band ever
2. What the hell? People actually criticize this amazing band?? Losers and whiners!
3. (Years go by) Eh, I’m not loving all the newer stuff, I get some of the criticisms
4. (More years pass) I like some of it and don’t like some of it, who cares, at least the band is still together

Yeah, I'm at step 4. The Astonishing pushed me dangerously close to writing the band off, but the last two albums have me back in.

[pg1067]

Is WildRanger back?

I can't say I didn't have the same thought.

I kinda miss WR.

[Trav86]

I understand why some people don't like The Astonishing, and I think when you take a big swing like that, it's expected that the reception will be mixed. But with that said, I have a lot of respect for any band that is willing to take those big swings. I'd almost rather see my favorite bands swing and miss every once in a while than release a steady stream of 6/10 albums that are inoffensive but boring, and then one day you realize you stopped paying attention somewhere along the way.

I agree. Since DOT and AVFTTOTW are fairly safe albums, I’m hoping the next one is a little more adventurous. Hopefully the reaction to TA didn’t sour them from wanting to push the boundaries a little.

[Samsara]

I'm clearly at #4. I enjoyed Distance Over Time and A View From the Top of the World. But to be honest, before those two records, I really didn't dig much of what the band put out after Train of Thought.

I'm happy DT is still at it, have enjoyed their albums, and I continue to be along for the ride...

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

the lack of a real fan-facing and clearly fan-minded person like MP was in hindsight one of the biggest reasons i stopped obsessing over the band. i still love them and thought View was actually quite good, but it's clear they're also just along for the ride these days haha. MP used to do complex setlist consideration, there was a lot more behind the scenes stuff and insights into the bands process, etc. beyond just losing his drumming it left a hole i don't even think i myself realized at the time

[TAC]

the lack of a real fan-facing and clearly fan-minded person like MP was in hindsight one of the biggest reasons i stopped obsessing over the band. i still love them and thought View was actually quite good, but it's clear they're also just along for the ride these days haha. MP used to do complex setlist consideration, there was a lot more behind the scenes stuff and insights into the bands process, etc. beyond just losing his drumming it left a hole i don't even think i myself realized at the time

This is all legit, and I totally understand. MP really elevated the experience of being a fan.

[The Letter M]

the lack of a real fan-facing and clearly fan-minded person like MP was in hindsight one of the biggest reasons i stopped obsessing over the band. i still love them and thought View was actually quite good, but it's clear they're also just along for the ride these days haha. MP used to do complex setlist consideration, there was a lot more behind the scenes stuff and insights into the bands process, etc. beyond just losing his drumming it left a hole i don't even think i myself realized at the time

This is all legit, and I totally understand. MP really elevated the experience of being a fan.

Also agree. MP knew what fans would want because he offered things he would want from his favorite bands. Not everyone would like it but the fact that he went above and beyond just making music is what made DT great for me. His YJR liner notes were thorough and insightful, and his video commentaries were fun! Not to mention the DT Tourography page with SO many details, and just general fan interaction.

Now we have DT band members promoting beard oil and questionable plagiarism software. At least they've come back with the LNFA, though the steady release of that has been halted for some time now. If MP can't rejoin the band, maybe make him the DT archivist and historian.

-Marc.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

the lack of a real fan-facing and clearly fan-minded person like MP was in hindsight one of the biggest reasons i stopped obsessing over the band. i still love them and thought View was actually quite good, but it's clear they're also just along for the ride these days haha. MP used to do complex setlist consideration, there was a lot more behind the scenes stuff and insights into the bands process, etc. beyond just losing his drumming it left a hole i don't even think i myself realized at the time

This is all legit, and I totally understand. MP really elevated the experience of being a fan.

Also agree. MP knew what fans would want because he offered things he would want from his favorite bands. Not everyone would like it but the fact that he went above and beyond just making music is what made DT great for me. His YJR liner notes were thorough and insightful, and his video commentaries were fun! Not to mention the DT Tourography page with SO many details, and just general fan interaction.

Now we have DT band members promoting beard oil and questionable plagiarism software. At least they've come back with the LNFA, though the steady release of that has been halted for some time now. If MP can't rejoin the band, maybe make him the DT archivist and historian.

-Marc.

I love JP but some of his side hustles make me chuckle.

[Trav86]

the lack of a real fan-facing and clearly fan-minded person like MP was in hindsight one of the biggest reasons i stopped obsessing over the band. i still love them and thought View was actually quite good, but it's clear they're also just along for the ride these days haha. MP used to do complex setlist consideration, there was a lot more behind the scenes stuff and insights into the bands process, etc. beyond just losing his drumming it left a hole i don't even think i myself realized at the time

This is all legit, and I totally understand. MP really elevated the experience of being a fan.

Also agree. MP knew what fans would want because he offered things he would want from his favorite bands. Not everyone would like it but the fact that he went above and beyond just making music is what made DT great for me. His YJR liner notes were thorough and insightful, and his video commentaries were fun! Not to mention the DT Tourography page with SO many details, and just general fan interaction.

Now we have DT band members promoting beard oil and questionable plagiarism software. At least they've come back with the LNFA, though the steady release of that has been halted for some time now. If MP can't rejoin the band, maybe make him the DT archivist and historian.

-Marc.

Wait what?

[The Letter M]

the lack of a real fan-facing and clearly fan-minded person like MP was in hindsight one of the biggest reasons i stopped obsessing over the band. i still love them and thought View was actually quite good, but it's clear they're also just along for the ride these days haha. MP used to do complex setlist consideration, there was a lot more behind the scenes stuff and insights into the bands process, etc. beyond just losing his drumming it left a hole i don't even think i myself realized at the time

This is all legit, and I totally understand. MP really elevated the experience of being a fan.

Also agree. MP knew what fans would want because he offered things he would want from his favorite bands. Not everyone would like it but the fact that he went above and beyond just making music is what made DT great for me. His YJR liner notes were thorough and insightful, and his video commentaries were fun! Not to mention the DT Tourography page with SO many details, and just general fan interaction.

Now we have DT band members promoting beard oil and questionable plagiarism software. At least they've come back with the LNFA, though the steady release of that has been halted for some time now. If MP can't rejoin the band, maybe make him the DT archivist and historian.

-Marc.

Wait what?

Jordan (and by extension the DT social media pages) promoted a new guitar "AI" creation software called Riffler, that creates thousands of "unique and royalty free" guitar riffs. I get the idea for it, providing riffs for those who just compose and/or cannot play guitar and want the sound, but it's not like there aren't literally thousands of guitar players who could do the same for you. I'm sure the software has lifted riffs and sounds from millions of samples without crediting or compensating them, as most software like that often does.

What's interesting is that, when I posted about Riffler here and shared DT's Facebook post about it, the DT page deleted their post hours later, presumably from fan backlash and distaste. Jordan has also been using a lot of AI-generating software for his videos and stuff lately.

-Marc.

[The Great Ape]

Fascinating thoughts, everyone.
I feel much more aware of why it seems like fans criticize DT.

[Dream Team]

Just in case my post was misinterpreted, DT is still my favorite band and imo have made a nice resurgence after the period of TOT - BCSL that I didn't enjoy as much.

[Glasser]

Fascinating thoughts, everyone.
I feel much more aware of why it seems like fans criticize DT.

Is this Jordan?

[Ben_Jamin]

the lack of a real fan-facing and clearly fan-minded person like MP was in hindsight one of the biggest reasons i stopped obsessing over the band. i still love them and thought View was actually quite good, but it's clear they're also just along for the ride these days haha. MP used to do complex setlist consideration, there was a lot more behind the scenes stuff and insights into the bands process, etc. beyond just losing his drumming it left a hole i don't even think i myself realized at the time

I don't know of any other band that has a person that went above and beyond for the fans. MP is a fan at heart. Most big musicians are not and are just enjoying being able to play music for a live audience. MP went further and offered us fans things that he wish his idols would've done, this makes me feel it's a big reason for starting up Ytsejam records.

This is why I feel that most DT fans miss MP. Because he went above and beyond than a lot of bands in what the band gives to the fans.

That is also why I feel MP felt tired of doing as well and why he wanted a hiatus. It got too much for him to be reliable for all of that.

The current band members never had that mindset, it was all MP and it apparently was all handled by him alone. No one else in the band was going to do it, if so, they would've already stepped up and done it.

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

the lack of a real fan-facing and clearly fan-minded person like MP was in hindsight one of the biggest reasons i stopped obsessing over the band. i still love them and thought View was actually quite good, but it's clear they're also just along for the ride these days haha. MP used to do complex setlist consideration, there was a lot more behind the scenes stuff and insights into the bands process, etc. beyond just losing his drumming it left a hole i don't even think i myself realized at the time

I don't know of any other band that has a person that went above and beyond for the fans. MP is a fan at heart. Most big musicians are not and are just enjoying being able to play music for a live audience. MP went further and offered us fans things that he wish his idols would've done, this makes me feel it's a big reason for starting up Ytsejam records.

This is why I feel that most DT fans miss MP. Because he went above and beyond than a lot of bands in what the band gives to the fans.

That is also why I feel MP felt tired of doing as well and why he wanted a hiatus. It got too much for him to be reliable for all of that.

The current band members never had that mindset, it was all MP and it apparently was all handled by him alone. No one else in the band was going to do it, if so, they would've already stepped up and done it.

incredibly well said sir!