Extreme (the band) - Official Thread. V. SIX

[hefdaddy42]

And I'll repeat that I can't remember hearing/seeing Open Letter being played even once.  Not saying it wasn't, but I think it was played less than the fans are remembering.  Nostalgia is a funny thing.

Same here.  I only remember Cult of Personality.  Which I did not like in any way, shape, or form.

[King Postwhore]

https://youtu.be/6V5VkMqM07s?si=pEzTvn-ivv5Qepmi

[bosk1]

Okay...?

[HOF]

I wasn’t watching MTV back then so I have no idea. I will also say I never heard Cult of Personality either until the mid-90s after our rock station went to alternative/“modern rock.” I didn’t realize they came more from the 80s hair metal scene until a few years later.

[Indiscipline]

From a rock enthusiast euro-teen in 1990 perspective, I came to know LC through Glamour Boys on the radio and Extreme through Play with Me on a mix-tape I borrowed from a friend. They were talked about in the same terms inside the circles I moved in, i.e very gifted bands with catchy music, groovy rythm sections, great singers and generational monster guitarists. However, in a couple of years, Extreme's presence on rock/metal magazines was tenfold in comparison to LC's, as was (and maybe more) Nuno's presence on guitar/specialised magazines in comparison to Vernon's.

Personally, I like them both and own both discographies, but there is not a Living Colour's album I can consider a bona fide masterpiece as I do with Pornograffiti and III Sides.

[King Postwhore]

Okay...?

I just posted it incase it jogs some of you old farts memories.

I played a lot.  I was an MTV junkie.  Funny thing is, I remember seeing the "Middle Man" video on 120 Minutes.  That was the 1st time I saw them.

[Samsara]

I would probably have thought of Extreme as the somewhat more popular band. Growing up I remember hearing More Than Words, Rest In Peace, and Hip Today on the radio, where the only Living Colour song I’ve ever heard on the radio was Cult of Personality. That’s also pretty much the best song I’ve heard from them, so I guess I did sort of think of them as a one hit wonder (not that Extreme had lots of hits either).

I like Vivid well enough, but have never followed through with picking up any of LC’s other albums. What’s the next best one to check out?

I don't know your tastes, but personally I find Stain extremely interesting and enjoyable.

I actually find Stain to be my favorite total record between the first three classics. I like them all, but Stain was heavier. Postman, Auslander, etc., all great tunes. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely LOVE the first three Living Colour records, and don't think they've done anything since that was even close to the quality of those three. But if you made me pick one record from those first three as a total album experience, it is likely Stain, followed by Time's Up, THEN Vivid. (That said, "Middle Man," "Cult of Personality," and "Open Letter" remain my favorite tunes from them, despite that statement.)

re: Cult of Personality -- maybe it was my location on Long Island (them being from Brooklyn), but I heard Cult of Personality constantly, and the video was in heavy rotation.

[Kwyjibo]

Not that it matters but Cult Of Personality was also featured in GTA IV.

I think some of Living Colour's music and Vernon Reid's playing is more "out there" for lack of a better term. This might throw the casual listener off.

[Samsara]

Not that it matters but Cult Of Personality was also featured in GTA IV.

I think some of Living Colour's music and Vernon Reid's playing is more "out there" for lack of a better term. This might throw the casual listener off.

It was. And it was licensed for Guitar Hero and various other things. But so has Extreme's "Play With Me" (Guitar Hero, I think). The thing with Vernon is, he's one of the most talented guitarists I have ever heard. His solos are amazing.

[HOF]

Vernon really is awesome. Was just listening to Fight the Fight, and that into gave me major EVH vibes.

[Stadler]

Not that it matters but Cult Of Personality was also featured in GTA IV.

I think some of Living Colour's music and Vernon Reid's playing is more "out there" for lack of a better term. This might throw the casual listener off.

Well, that's the thing; they may be (and are, I'm not questioning that) on par commercially, and with numbers of hit singles and platinum albums, but their music is not the same.   Yeah, there are some overlapping things there, but to the lay person, Extreme is Van Halen, and Living Color is, I don't know, King Crimson?

[TAC]

Wow, that's an insult to Van Halen and Living Colour.

To the lay person, Extreme is the sappy More Than Words band.

[jammindude]

Wow, that's an insult to Van Halen and Living Colour.

To the lay person, Extreme is the sappy More Than Words band.

Agreed…

I still remember when Dream Theater had released SDOIT, and they were invited onto a national morning show (I think it was The Today Show?) to play Solitary Shell. But Mike nixed the idea specifically because he didn’t want to misrepresent Dream Theater as a ballad band on a national stage and then he cited Extreme as an example of people going out and buying an album for the ballad and the rest of the album being drastically different.

[HOF]

I think there is a lot of similarities between them in terms of their blending funk and metal, and I think Vernon and Nuno are on similar levels technically. Living Colour is a bit further out there in some ways, and the subject matter seems to be a bit more serious. I think Extreme has a bit more of that party rock vibe (but they also tended to get a little social/political). I think Extreme has more of a Queen influence that Living Colour lacks.

[Stadler]

Wow, that's an insult to Van Halen and Living Colour.

To the lay person, Extreme is the sappy More Than Words band.

I don't think so; to the lay person, Van Halen is "Panama and Jump, with that dude that can really play guitar!"   That's pretty much Extreme.  It wasn't a diss, or at least it wasn't meant to be.

[TAC]

Wow, that's an insult to Van Halen and Living Colour.

To the lay person, Extreme is the sappy More Than Words band.

I don't think so; to the lay person, Van Halen is "Panama and Jump, with that dude that can really play guitar!"   That's pretty much Extreme.  It wasn't a diss, or at least it wasn't meant to be.

Except the lay person at least knows who Van Halen is. They have no idea who Extreme is.

[Samsara]

To the lay person, Extreme is the sappy More Than Words band.

Except the lay person at least knows who Van Halen is. They have no idea who Extreme is.

Which is it, Tim? Does the "lay person" not know who Extreme is, or do they, and only think of "More Than Words?"

You know I love ya my man, but you are incredibly biased when it comes to anything Gary Cherone sings on, because you're on record as not liking him at all.

I would say most hard rock music fans of the 80s and 90s know who Extreme are. Van Halen has achieved pop icon status. Not many hard rock bands really achieve that level of world consciousness. I mean, Dream Theater -- most metal fans know who they are. But ask some random person in Poland, and they probably have no idea. But they likely know who The Beatles are, Van Halen, Led Zeppelin, etc.

I think there is a lot of similarities between them in terms of their blending funk and metal, and I think Vernon and Nuno are on similar levels technically. Living Colour is a bit further out there in some ways, and the subject matter seems to be a bit more serious. I think Extreme has a bit more of that party rock vibe (but they also tended to get a little social/political). I think Extreme has more of a Queen influence that Living Colour lacks.

I agree with all of this. Well stated. Living Colour has their cheeky moments too, however. But yeah, they are very similar, but distinct at the same time. Both bands even talked about how similar they were to one another when we saw them live last year.

[TAC]

To the lay person, Extreme is the sappy More Than Words band.

Except the lay person at least knows who Van Halen is. They have no idea who Extreme is.

Which is it, Tim? Does the "lay person" not know who Extreme is, or do they, and only think of "More Than Words?"

You know I love ya my man, but you are incredibly biased when it comes to anything Gary Cherone sings on, because you're on record as not liking him at all.

I’ll tell you which it is…. When I get home from work. I need a keyboard.


Okay...

I wouldn't say I'm biased. As far as not liking Gary Cherone, it's that I don't like him, but that I don't like him. I have immense respect for his talent both as a vocalist and a frontman. It's just to my ears, his voice castrates whatever he's singing over. I find him very vanilla, vocal wise. But that's a me problem.
I kind of feel the same about the band honestly. For all of the "supposed" talent, and I say that facetiously because I know there's immense talent in the band, their music to me just comes out so blah.
Whenever I've heard their stuff, I always feel like there's something holding it all back.

I've been trying not to jump in the thread and throw Extreme bombs, but I love the conversation when it comes to bands and our memories.

When I talk about a Lay Person, I guess we have to define what a lay person is. In my mind's eye, for these types of discussions, I think about The Lovely Mrs TAC. I put a call out to her to quiz her, but my guess is she would recognize More Than Words, but would have no idea who sings it. So while there may be a contradiction in my two statements earlier, I think this is what I was trying to say.


I was always rooting for Extreme. That were the preeminent Boston club band for YEARS and they had a great live reputation. I always felt like if their debut was in 1987 and not 1989, it would've made a huge difference. There were just so many bands jumping in that late in the 80's and to me, Extreme just got lost in the shuffle. I found that I wasn't really into their music, but I always respected them , and like I said, I was rooting for them.

[Stadler]

Look, I like it, don't get me wrong and I think it separates them in a good way, but there are elements of Gary that are potentially a turn off.  The lyrics go for a sort of "wordplay" that falls flat at times.  If you were coming in to hear this:
"Hello, hey you
Who said that?
Baby, how you been?
You say you don't know
You won't know until you begin
So can't you see me standing here?
I've got my back against the record machine
I ain't the worst that you've seen
Ah, can't you see what I mean?
Ah, might as well jump (jump)
Go ahead and jump
Might as well jump (jump)
Go ahead and jump
Jump!"

you're going to potentially have some problems with:

"It's hard to stop once the music gets started
'til the soles of your feet harden up like your heart did
Stepping in line with the sign of the timer
Seduced by the tune of the decadent dancer"

I'm not going to get into a line by line but there are other lyrics by Gary that I'm sure he was going for something specific, but I'm not 100% sure where he was going, and while it doesn't matter to me, it might to others.

[bosk1]

I don't get the comparison between those two lyrics. 

[TAC]

I don't get the comparison between those two lyrics.

Well, for starters, they're both words to songs.

[jammindude]

I don't get the comparison between those two lyrics.

I think he was trying to say that if you have a fan base that expects the former, it can be difficult as a new lead singer trying to sell the fan base on the latter.

Thats what I got out of it. But he can correct me if I’m wrong.

[HOF]

If I had to guess what Stadler is saying, it would be that the VH lyric is a little easier to digest and doesn't require much/any thought. The words are essentially gibberish but they just kind of sound good, at least when sung like Dave does.

The other takes a bit more mental work to figure out and doesn't quite roll off the tongue, you know? I've actually never looked up that particular lyric, and I didn't even know that's what he said until now. Just might come off as a bit too clever for a rock song.

I actually kind of like that about Cherone's lyrics, but I can see why someone (especially in the party rock crowd) would roll their eyes at them.

[TAC]

Sammy's lyrics weren't exactly poetic either.

[TAC]

When I talk about a Lay Person, I guess we have to define what a lay person is. In my mind's eye, for these types of discussions, I think about The Lovely Mrs TAC. I put a call out to her to quiz her, but my guess is she would recognize More Than Words, but would have no idea who sings it. So while there may be a contradiction in my two statements earlier, I think this is what I was trying to say.

Sure enough, I was just talking to my wife. I asked her if she knew the song More Than Words, and she did, even reciting some of the lyrics. I then asked her if she knew who sang it, and she had no idea. I asked he if she's ever heard of Extreme and she said no. She also said she might have at some point but it definitely didn't ring a bell. She asked me what else they did, and I said their second biggest song was Hole Hearted, and she had no idea what that was.

[Stadler]

If I had to guess what Stadler is saying, it would be that the VH lyric is a little easier to digest and doesn't require much/any thought. The words are essentially gibberish but they just kind of sound good, at least when sung like Dave does.

The other takes a bit more mental work to figure out and doesn't quite roll off the tongue, you know? I've actually never looked up that particular lyric, and I didn't even know that's what he said until now. Just might come off as a bit too clever for a rock song.

I actually kind of like that about Cherone's lyrics, but I can see why someone (especially in the party rock crowd) would roll their eyes at them.

Jammin was close, but HOF is closer.    I'm not bagging on either lyric - I LIKE Gary's lyrics - but they're odd at times.   They are an acquired taste.  So if you LOVE Van Halen, or any of the other "Guitar Hero" bands of that time, and you hear about this new phenom from Boston, Nuno Tenniscourt or some shit and you go check it out, it might not be so readily accessible.  That's all I'm saying.

[WardySI]

Sammy's lyrics weren't exactly poetic either.

You mean Dave's lyric from Jump or do you just mean Van Halen in general?

Sorry, been following on has made for an interesting read 

[King Postwhore]

When I talk about a Lay Person, I guess we have to define what a lay person is. In my mind's eye, for these types of discussions, I think about The Lovely Mrs TAC. I put a call out to her to quiz her, but my guess is she would recognize More Than Words, but would have no idea who sings it. So while there may be a contradiction in my two statements earlier, I think this is what I was trying to say.

Sure enough, I was just talking to my wife. I asked her if she knew the song More Than Words, and she did, even reciting some of the lyrics. I then asked her if she knew who sang it, and she had no idea. I asked he if she's ever heard of Extreme and she said no. She also said she might have at some point but it definitely didn't ring a bell. She asked me what else they did, and I said their second biggest song was Hole Hearted, and she had no idea what that was.

Asking old people who don't really love music like you do is a bad barometer on the pulse of fandom.

[TAC]

When I talk about a Lay Person, I guess we have to define what a lay person is. In my mind's eye, for these types of discussions, I think about The Lovely Mrs TAC. I put a call out to her to quiz her, but my guess is she would recognize More Than Words, but would have no idea who sings it. So while there may be a contradiction in my two statements earlier, I think this is what I was trying to say.

Sure enough, I was just talking to my wife. I asked her if she knew the song More Than Words, and she did, even reciting some of the lyrics. I then asked her if she knew who sang it, and she had no idea. I asked he if she's ever heard of Extreme and she said no. She also said she might have at some point but it definitely didn't ring a bell. She asked me what else they did, and I said their second biggest song was Hole Hearted, and she had no idea what that was.

Asking old people who don't really love music like you do is a bad barometer on the pulse of fandom.

My wife loves music and we’re talking about lay people. She knew the song and even recited the lyrics.
My wife has music on all the time. She just doesn’t follow it. She was the perfect person to ask, actually.

[King Postwhore]

Yeah but my wife could rail off 10 songs from them.  A small sample you are using of 1.

[Stadler]

When I talk about a Lay Person, I guess we have to define what a lay person is. In my mind's eye, for these types of discussions, I think about The Lovely Mrs TAC. I put a call out to her to quiz her, but my guess is she would recognize More Than Words, but would have no idea who sings it. So while there may be a contradiction in my two statements earlier, I think this is what I was trying to say.

Sure enough, I was just talking to my wife. I asked her if she knew the song More Than Words, and she did, even reciting some of the lyrics. I then asked her if she knew who sang it, and she had no idea. I asked he if she's ever heard of Extreme and she said no. She also said she might have at some point but it definitely didn't ring a bell. She asked me what else they did, and I said their second biggest song was Hole Hearted, and she had no idea what that was.

Asking old people who don't really love music like you do is a bad barometer on the pulse of fandom.

My wife loves music and we’re talking about lay people. She knew the song and even recited the lyrics.
My wife has music on all the time. She just doesn’t follow it. She was the perfect person to ask, actually.

I agree with TAC. 

[King Postwhore]

Sounds like an evil alliance.   

[bosk1]

When I talk about a Lay Person, I guess we have to define what a lay person is. In my mind's eye, for these types of discussions, I think about The Lovely Mrs TAC. I put a call out to her to quiz her, but my guess is she would recognize More Than Words, but would have no idea who sings it. So while there may be a contradiction in my two statements earlier, I think this is what I was trying to say.

Sure enough, I was just talking to my wife. I asked her if she knew the song More Than Words, and she did, even reciting some of the lyrics. I then asked her if she knew who sang it, and she had no idea. I asked he if she's ever heard of Extreme and she said no. She also said she might have at some point but it definitely didn't ring a bell. She asked me what else they did, and I said their second biggest song was Hole Hearted, and she had no idea what that was.

Okay, but I respectfully think you botched the question on that last one.  I don't think the casual listener who doesn't know the band knows the name of that song, and the chorus is a much different twist on the song name.  To see whether she knew it, I think you have to play or sing a snippet.

Sounds like an evil alliance.   

[Samsara]

But using the lovely Mrs. TAC (please tell her I said hello, Tim. Been a few years) is sort of a tough thing. Because again, Van Halen and Extreme are different bands, on different levels of notoriety. Van Halen is a pop icon. People who don't even like rock music know who the band Van Halen is, particularly following EVH's passing. Extreme is more of a band that those who like rock music, particularly 80s and 90s hard rock, know immediately. But ask a random person on the street, they wouldn't know.

Okay, and I've forgotten where this is all supposed to go. LOL.

[hefdaddy42]

The fuck are we talking about?