JLB - "I can't sing like that anymore"

[The Great Ape]

And Beelzebubba is possibly the worst song (or if you prefer, least good) on James' entire solo discography, sorry 

no worries...

i'm kinda out there... a little insane some may say...
I just made that whole thing up...

[HOF]

I really dig (most) of the two Mullmuzzler albums. I just struggle with the production. Everything sounds like a demo.

I'd LOVE to hear those albums with the production of EoP.

I don't think they sound terrible, but they do sound like the individual parts were recorded in home studios and then emailed in. Which is a lot of albums nowadays, even some really great ones that sound excellent, but back then it was kind of a new thing and I think that probably hurt the overall sound a bit.

Both have their share of good songs, but I think the first has the stronger overall writing. The second has some really cool stuff too though. And yeah, those were songs that were right for James' voice, unlike a lot of DT material.

[El Barto]

What I found more insightful than his admitting he can't sing I&W the same way he used to in his 20s - we all agree on that probably - is that he said he is changing the melodies to suit what he can sing. This is something people have brought up on other threads and I feel like it's always brought up as a negative thing-- on that is contributing to the live struggles. But here he is saying he is altering the notes to what he feels he can accomplish.

I think that changing up the melodies to suit what he can now sing is key. However, and I've pointed this out before, he's honestly not very good at it. Improvising and embellishing your vocals is something that some excel at and others do not, and he most certainly does not. I think to avoid the train wrecks what he needs to work on is standardizing much of what he sings, rather than thinking he can wing it on stage, because his improvised vocals tend to be pretty awful. I don't know what their tour rehearsals are like, but I'd bet that those rehearsals are where he can resolve a lot of the problems, and frankly, the rest of the band should be pretty involved in this aspect of the show now.

[Adami]

I really dig (most) of the two Mullmuzzler albums. I just struggle with the production. Everything sounds like a demo.

I'd LOVE to hear those albums with the production of EoP.

I don't think they sound terrible, but they do sound like the individual parts were recorded in home studios and then emailed in. Which is a lot of albums nowadays, even some really great ones that sound excellent, but back then it was kind of a new thing and I think that probably hurt the overall sound a bit.

Both have their share of good songs, but I think the first has the stronger overall writing. The second has some really cool stuff too though. And yeah, those were songs that were right for James' voice, unlike a lot of DT material.

They definitely don't sound terrible at all. They sound like demos. They sound like they are ready to be properly recorded, you know?

[HOF]

I really dig (most) of the two Mullmuzzler albums. I just struggle with the production. Everything sounds like a demo.

I'd LOVE to hear those albums with the production of EoP.

I don't think they sound terrible, but they do sound like the individual parts were recorded in home studios and then emailed in. Which is a lot of albums nowadays, even some really great ones that sound excellent, but back then it was kind of a new thing and I think that probably hurt the overall sound a bit.

Both have their share of good songs, but I think the first has the stronger overall writing. The second has some really cool stuff too though. And yeah, those were songs that were right for James' voice, unlike a lot of DT material.

They definitely don't sound terrible at all. They sound like demos. They sound like they are ready to be properly recorded, you know?

Yeah, it's too bad they couldn't have been properly produced and recorded in the same studio.

Also, Mangini's drum parts are really good on those albums. I'm not super familiar with what he's done with DT, but they definitely don't have that mechanical drum machine type quality to them that people complain about.

[Trav86]

Just want to put out there that I am a big fan of both Mullmuzzler albums. I think they’re really underrated.

They're also pretty unique in style. I love the following solo albums under James' own name, but as great as they are, they're "just" prog metal albums. Especially the latest two - again, great albums,  but you could swap some songs here and there between the two albums and no one would be the wiser.

The two Mullmuzzler were something unique, not like Dream Theater, not like another prog metal band, it was just something crafted specifically to let James shine. I think also they both complement each other quite nicely - the first has the best songs, but the second as a whole album is overall better and more consistent.

And Beelzebubba is possibly the worst song (or if you prefer, least good) on James' entire solo discography, sorry 

I think this is the best description I have ever seen for these albums.  I feel exactly the same way.

[Madman Shepherd]

And Beelzebubba is possibly the worst song (or if you prefer, least good) on James' entire solo discography, sorry 

no worries...

i'm kinda out there... a little insane some may say...
I just made that whole thing up...

Dude, I figured you had to be trolling. I mean there's no way anybody likes that song let alone loves it.

That said I do love LaBrie's solo work but EoP is just something else. On fire lyrically, compositional, and sonically.

I really dig (most) of the two Mullmuzzler albums. I just struggle with the production. Everything sounds like a demo.

I'd LOVE to hear those albums with the production of EoP.

Agreed. In the booklet for the first one James gushes about how great Terry Brown was to record vocals with and I'm thinking, really? Cause your vocals sound like they were recorded in a shed.

It's not terrible and in some ways it works for the album. I think 2 actually works quite well even though it's a quite unique sound but yeah, you gotta be in the mood and in the right frame of mine to look past the production.

[Glasser]

I love James on the Tim Donahue Madmen and Sinners album. Stellar!!!!

[Adami]

Also suffers from less than stellar production (mostly drums) but a fantastic James album is Frameshift - Unweaving the Rainbow.

Their other album with Sebastian Bach is also great.

[HOF]

I forgot that Terry Brown did the Mullmuzzler album (though just the vocals, or did he produce the whole thing?).

That Framshift album is definitely one of the best sounding recordings of James. A shame it didn’t have a real drummer.

[Samsara]

I really dig (most) of the two Mullmuzzler albums. I just struggle with the production. Everything sounds like a demo.

I'd LOVE to hear those albums with the production of EoP.

THIS.

[Trav86]

I forgot that Terry Brown did the Mullmuzzler album (though just the vocals, or did he produce the whole thing?).

That Framshift album is definitely one of the best sounding recordings of James. A shame it didn’t have a real drummer.

He’s credited as producing the whole album. He produced just the vocals on Scenes from a Memory though.

[HOF]

I forgot that Terry Brown did the Mullmuzzler album (though just the vocals, or did he produce the whole thing?).

That Framshift album is definitely one of the best sounding recordings of James. A shame it didn’t have a real drummer.

He’s credited as producing the whole album. He produced just the vocals on Scenes from a Memory though.

Ah, that's right. Still guessing the whole thing would have turned out better if it were recorded all in the same room with a proper studio and budget (which I imagine they didn't really have).

[MirrorMask]

I love James on the Tim Donahue Madmen and Sinners album. Stellar!!!!

That Frameshift album is definitely one of the best sounding recordings of James. A shame it didn’t have a real drummer.

Both are great records where the writers knew what they wanted from James, and got it brilliantly.

[Trav86]

I forgot that Terry Brown did the Mullmuzzler album (though just the vocals, or did he produce the whole thing?).

That Framshift album is definitely one of the best sounding recordings of James. A shame it didn’t have a real drummer.

He’s credited as producing the whole album. He produced just the vocals on Scenes from a Memory though.

Ah, that's right. Still guessing the whole thing would have turned out better if it were recorded all in the same room with a proper studio and budget (which I imagine they didn't really have).

Agreed

[hefdaddy42]

What I found more insightful than his admitting he can't sing I&W the same way he used to in his 20s - we all agree on that probably - is that he said he is changing the melodies to suit what he can sing. This is something people have brought up on other threads and I feel like it's always brought up as a negative thing-- on that is contributing to the live struggles. But here he is saying he is altering the notes to what he feels he can accomplish.

I think that changing up the melodies to suit what he can now sing is key. However, and I've pointed this out before, he's honestly not very good at it. Improvising and embellishing your vocals is something that some excel at and others do not, and he most certainly does not. I think to avoid the train wrecks what he needs to work on is standardizing much of what he sings, rather than thinking he can wing it on stage, because his improvised vocals tend to be pretty awful. I don't know what their tour rehearsals are like, but I'd bet that those rehearsals are where he can resolve a lot of the problems, and frankly, the rest of the band should be pretty involved in this aspect of the show now.

Agreed 100%

[devieira73]

I really dig (most) of the two Mullmuzzler albums. I just struggle with the production. Everything sounds like a demo.

I'd LOVE to hear those albums with the production of EoP.

THIS.

Those albums also have incredible Mangini performances, but indeed they sound almost like demo recordings, with the drums suffering most.

[Samsara]

What I found more insightful than his admitting he can't sing I&W the same way he used to in his 20s - we all agree on that probably - is that he said he is changing the melodies to suit what he can sing. This is something people have brought up on other threads and I feel like it's always brought up as a negative thing-- on that is contributing to the live struggles. But here he is saying he is altering the notes to what he feels he can accomplish.

I think that changing up the melodies to suit what he can now sing is key. However, and I've pointed this out before, he's honestly not very good at it. Improvising and embellishing your vocals is something that some excel at and others do not, and he most certainly does not. I think to avoid the train wrecks what he needs to work on is standardizing much of what he sings, rather than thinking he can wing it on stage, because his improvised vocals tend to be pretty awful. I don't know what their tour rehearsals are like, but I'd bet that those rehearsals are where he can resolve a lot of the problems, and frankly, the rest of the band should be pretty involved in this aspect of the show now.

Agreed 100%

I also agree. A lot of work needs to be done by the entire band to make sure those new vocal melodies can be delivered consistently night after night by JLB, and he is comfortable with it and enjoys it. This is a difficult process for a singer. JLB has admitted he can't sing like he used to. That took guts. Now they have to band together as a family and make sure not just that JLB sings things in a way everyone is happy with, but that JLB has the confidence and believe in the new melodies.

I give James Labrie a TON of credit. As, I think, should most fans. But now that he has stepped up and said that he can't do some of the things he used to, as fans, I think that while we're entitled to not like what they come up with and express that, I feel we also now owe JLB a lot of positivity and support. He is still a great singer. He's just lost the high end that he once had. And that has to be really hard on a singer like that.

I'd love to see DT fly Ray Alder in from Spain and all work together on finding the right vocal melody modifications. Alder has done it masterfully with Fates Warning. I have zero doubt that DT can do it too.

[Schurftkut]

just next time, think about and rehearse these things before a tour starts.

Though they did change tuning and melodies, that could've been avoided by proper rehearsals

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

just next time, think about and rehearse these things before a tour starts.

Though they did change tuning and melodies, that could've been avoided by proper rehearsals

yeah, i agree. every band has to work out stuff like this in rehearsals and it's weird that they can't seem to straighten out JLBs parts that they must know he can't sing anymore (due to no fault of his own)

i also agree with what some others were saying about how it's time for the other band members to step up (or move? lol they all stand still like statues most of the show) and pick up some of the slack.  it's not fair to leave it entirely on james

[The Great Ape]

I respect that James LaBrie has never used autotune.

[Adami]

I respect that James LaBrie has never used autotune.

Assuming you're counting Melodyne in that, I wouldn't be so sure. I'd say 99% of singers these days use it. It's not even a big deal.

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

I respect that James LaBrie has never used autotune.

doesn't he use Melodyne?

edit: what adami said. it's definitely not a big deal but i'm also pretty sure he has used it lol

[Skeever]

They definitely use it in their studio releases and probably live releases as well. I don't think that he actually uses it live but there was a time when I had my suspicions and now I'm kind of wondering if maybe it was something that they stopped.

[Madman Shepherd]

They definitely use it in their studio releases and probably live releases as well. I don't think that he actually uses it live but there was a time when I had my suspicions and now I'm kind of wondering if maybe it was something that they stopped.

He has actually admitted it is used sometimes in the studio and live releases but never in concert.

[ReaperKK]

I really dig (most) of the two Mullmuzzler albums. I just struggle with the production. Everything sounds like a demo.

I'd LOVE to hear those albums with the production of EoP.

I don't think they sound terrible, but they do sound like the individual parts were recorded in home studios and then emailed in. Which is a lot of albums nowadays, even some really great ones that sound excellent, but back then it was kind of a new thing and I think that probably hurt the overall sound a bit.

Both have their share of good songs, but I think the first has the stronger overall writing. The second has some really cool stuff too though. And yeah, those were songs that were right for James' voice, unlike a lot of DT material.

They definitely don't sound terrible at all. They sound like demos. They sound like they are ready to be properly recorded, you know?

Yeah, it's too bad they couldn't have been properly produced and recorded in the same studio.

Also, Mangini's drum parts are really good on those albums. I'm not super familiar with what he's done with DT, but they definitely don't have that mechanical drum machine type quality to them that people complain about.

Mangini's drums all sound triggered to me which gives that drum machine quality to them IMO

What I found more insightful than his admitting he can't sing I&W the same way he used to in his 20s - we all agree on that probably - is that he said he is changing the melodies to suit what he can sing. This is something people have brought up on other threads and I feel like it's always brought up as a negative thing-- on that is contributing to the live struggles. But here he is saying he is altering the notes to what he feels he can accomplish.

I think that changing up the melodies to suit what he can now sing is key. However, and I've pointed this out before, he's honestly not very good at it. Improvising and embellishing your vocals is something that some excel at and others do not, and he most certainly does not. I think to avoid the train wrecks what he needs to work on is standardizing much of what he sings, rather than thinking he can wing it on stage, because his improvised vocals tend to be pretty awful. I don't know what their tour rehearsals are like, but I'd bet that those rehearsals are where he can resolve a lot of the problems, and frankly, the rest of the band should be pretty involved in this aspect of the show now.

Agreed 100%

Completely agree, I don't feel like he was always this way (I might be misremembering) but he'll have a great line and it sounds like he decides to just take that shit right off the rails.

[Mosh]

There's a lot of autotune on recent DT albums and some moments where it is pretty noticeable at that (a couple sections on The Astonishing namely). It's not a big deal though, I'm not sure if there's a single notable rock band out there that doesn't use some autotune, it's just the industry standard and has been for decades. Kind of a misunderstood tool IMO.

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

yeah, definitely not a big deal. but the post saying he never used it was definitely misleading!

[WilliamMunny]

There's a lot of autotune on recent DT albums and some moments where it is pretty noticeable at that (a couple sections on The Astonishing namely). It's not a big deal though, I'm not sure if there's a single notable rock band out there that doesn't use some autotune, it's just the industry standard and has been for decades. Kind of a misunderstood tool IMO.

The term is widely misunderstood and often conflated with other production VST’s/techniques, some of which have been in use since the mid ‘80s.

Doctoring or comping vocals is not the same as employing’Autotune,’ which, as anyone who’s ever recorded can tell you, is a virtually useless plugin unless a singer is already 95% there to begin with.

[Dream Team]

If he ever just stopped putting the “w” sound before every vowel that would be a big improvement for me.

Wi’m alive again, darkness far behind me . . .

[Glasser]

If he ever just stopped putting the “w” sound before every vowel that would be a big improvement for me.

Wi’m alive again, darkness far behind me . . .

 

[Lax]

haha

Every time I wonder about it, I feel like JLB can't be replaced just like that...Imagine from the other members perspective :
1) He has been there since I&W, his voice is the only known by most, like axl rose for gnr.
2) They are old and probably don't imagine changing their habits.
3) Maybe they think the chances someone not too young can do the work, at this age, without being a diva etc...
4) Low risk to wreck another part of the DT fanbase
5) Maybe they like the band writes album, then singer rehearses via webcam
6) True friendship over opinion

Cons :
-They hit a technical limitation like that
-Even if it's not like anselmo at the end of pantera, he seems not a lot physically with the band outside of tours.
-He puts W and Wo before voyels

[nikatapi]

If he ever just stopped putting the “w” sound before every vowel that would be a big improvement for me.

Wi’m alive again, darkness far behind me . . .

That is painfully true 

[MirrorMask]

Every time I wonder about it, I feel like JLB can't be replaced just like that...Imagine from the other members perspective :
1) He has been there since I&W, his voice is the only known by most, like axl rose for gnr.
2) They are old and probably don't imagine changing their habits.
3) Maybe they think the chances someone not too young can do the work, at this age, without being a diva etc...
4) Low risk to wreck another part of the DT fanbase
5) Maybe they like the band writes album, then singer rehearses via webcam
6) True friendship over opinion

Cons :
-They hit a technical limitation like that
-Even if it's not like anselmo at the end of pantera, he seems not a lot physically with the band outside of tours.
-He puts W and Wo before voyels

All very valid points.

Let's remember our community here is a small world. For every user that posts that they can live without Pull Me Under, there are dozens of fans at concerts that will roar when the song starts. True, JLB has his fair share of critics but there would be an equally large (I daresay WAY LARGER) number of people that would jump ship without him. I am one of those, for sure - I would not "ragequit" the band if James were to go, but they'd better put a total and complete masterpiece of an album to keep me interested.

Also, which band with this longevity, and this stability with the lead singer, changed vocalist and remained at the top of their game? with due proportions, look at Judas Priest, they brought in a guy that could do (and scream) anything Halford could do and even more, and the fanbase still dwindled and people wanted Rob back anyway.

There's no scenario, at this point of their carreer, where DT changes vocalist and do even better than before. Best scenario? they play more or less the same venues they usually do with less people in attendance, and fans for a while enjoy the novelty of hearing Take the Time and Voices live like it's 1994 again. But replacing James would bring DT into "bands that still go on replacing members here and there while there's still people who want to see them" territory, the twilight of their carreer.

EDIT: Another aspect to consider, who would even replace James? prog metal is a small world, there is no singer out there who could potentially join DT and cause an earthquake of excitement and sales. Maybe Russell Allen, but still DT won't become bigger stars overnight. So they either get an unknown talent like Priest did with Ripper, a guy no one knows, or an estabilished singer from the genre. In neither of these two cases the prog world "breaks" and everyone jumps on DT's bandwagon.

[Glasser]

To respond to the post above:

Its not a matter of getting bigger or selling more. Its a matter of delivering the same quality of music and performing live up to their standards.