JLB - "I can't sing like that anymore"

[EPIC Outro]

The Gift of Music is one of my favorites from the Mangini era. I love it when that choir bursts in at the end.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

I think the darkest eras of this forum were mine portnoy getting Tom DeLonged and the astonishing
Did those last long, I doubt it

I'm not 1000% sure what that means, but it got a laugh out loud nonetheless.

I remember a lot of people being pretty happy when Mike left. I do think it was misguided, a lot of fans were just blaming Mike for what they perceived to be a dip in quality of the band, and MP was an easy target since he was always putting himself out there. In retrospect it's a bit silly. But I remember MP one thing back in the band shortly after leaving and I cannot imagine what would have happened to the fandom if they had really let him back in because a lot of people were really excited to see how the band would grow out from under MP's thumb.

I was definitely one of those people that thought it was a good move for the band to go without him. I wasn’t a big fan of SC and BC&SL (at the time) and like you said, I blamed Mike. I felt ADTOE was a return to form, and I thought the band was headed in a better direction.  Looking back now, there is something missing since he’s been gone. I’ve mentioned before that it took several albums for me to notice it. Portnoy was constantly pushing to try new things and find inspiration in other places. It started to cause some unbalanced albums. The last three with him were “peaks and valleys” types but man were the peaks fucking huge! 

As for the last part, I think the vast majority of fans, outside of this forum, would have welcomed Portnoy back at any time. And still would. All over Facebook , YouTube and Reddit you still see all of the “bring back MP” or “the good ol’ days with MP”  comments abound.

I think the something missing is a voice that has equal weight in the songwriting discussion - for better or for worse. Mangini obviously does not have the pull that MP did to sway the songwriting or the production.

One thing to consider is the effect that time has on emotions and opinions. A lot of people were very unhappy about the last MP albums (and yes, a lot of people were fine or happy with them) but over a decade has passed and now those feelings have softened or been forgotten. Passions have moderated and nostalgia has crept in. But how good were the last 3 MP albums, really? You state you weren't a fan of the last 2 and blamed MP. I quite agree with you here. But do you think the recent MM albums were worse?

[Lax]

About gift of music, after the first wedding days with the astonishing at the release, when my optimism went down as I removed songs to the playlist until none remained...
I listened to gift of music yesterday and it's so suspect to hear JLB singing closer to SFAM range than what it really was around DT12...I feel tricked.
On the other hand they did an image&word tour which was a bet less risky than play peekaboo with a bull's balls...

[nikatapi]

Confidentially, I just saw this posted online:

DREAM THEATER's JAMES LABRIE Blasts Singers Who Lip Sync, Says Backing Tracks Are 'Acceptable' When Used 'Creatively'

https://blabbermouth.net/news/dream-theaters-james-labrie-blasts-singers-who-lip-sync-says-backing-tracks-are-acceptable-when-used-creatively#lnga7lm7c7iaeufz9l%0A

He's not wrong, i kind of agree with him. Do i prefer bands that use backing tracks? No.
Also, there's no doubt in my mind that for the BITS section he was singing along to the backing track but at a very low volume - before being called out about it and his lower octave singing became present in the mix.

[Stadler]

I think the darkest eras of this forum were mine portnoy getting Tom DeLonged and the astonishing
Did those last long, I doubt it

I'm not 1000% sure what that means, but it got a laugh out loud nonetheless.

I remember a lot of people being pretty happy when Mike left. I do think it was misguided, a lot of fans were just blaming Mike for what they perceived to be a dip in quality of the band, and MP was an easy target since he was always putting himself out there. In retrospect it's a bit silly. But I remember MP one thing back in the band shortly after leaving and I cannot imagine what would have happened to the fandom if they had really let him back in because a lot of people were really excited to see how the band would grow out from under MP's thumb.

I was definitely one of those people that thought it was a good move for the band to go without him. I wasn’t a big fan of SC and BC&SL (at the time) and like you said, I blamed Mike. I felt ADTOE was a return to form, and I thought the band was headed in a better direction.  Looking back now, there is something missing since he’s been gone. I’ve mentioned before that it took several albums for me to notice it. Portnoy was constantly pushing to try new things and find inspiration in other places. It started to cause some unbalanced albums. The last three with him were “peaks and valleys” types but man were the peaks fucking huge! 

As for the last part, I think the vast majority of fans, outside of this forum, would have welcomed Portnoy back at any time. And still would. All over Facebook , YouTube and Reddit you still see all of the “bring back MP” or “the good ol’ days with MP”  comments abound.

I think the something missing is a voice that has equal weight in the songwriting discussion - for better or for worse. Mangini obviously does not have the pull that MP did to sway the songwriting or the production.

One thing to consider is the effect that time has on emotions and opinions. A lot of people were very unhappy about the last MP albums (and yes, a lot of people were fine or happy with them) but over a decade has passed and now those feelings have softened or been forgotten. Passions have moderated and nostalgia has crept in. But how good were the last 3 MP albums, really? You state you weren't a fan of the last 2 and blamed MP. I quite agree with you here. But do you think the recent MM albums were worse?

I know I do.  Maybe "worse" isn't the word; maybe "on par" is the word.   I never thought SC or BC&SL sucked.   They weren't SFAM or 8V (I thing TOT is on the same level as SC and BC&SL, maybe even a half step below), but then again what was?  U2 has been chasing the JT and AB! for decades, but that doesn't mean every thing after "sucks". 

I do think that while they are still very good, while they still make music I want to hear, while I still want to see them live, they are not the same band as when Mike P. was there. They lost a bit of je nais se quoi that hasn't returned as of yet.

[WilliamMunny]

Man, Stadler makes a great point there.

It's very rare that a band delivers a sustained run of masterpieces. For the vast majority of fans, U2's best days are way in the rearviewmirror. Many on this board feel Metallica is decades removed from their last 'great' release.

For THIS music fan, what sets DT apart from so many other bands I enjoy is the fact they legitimately released seven albums in a row where each and every release left me breathless.

I&W through 8VM is a run of music that is nearly unparalleled for me.

It's the reason I'm still spinning each new release and attending shows, even though I feel the last seven releases are, for lack of a better term, a step below their best work.

Nothing wrong with that!

[Trav86]

I think the darkest eras of this forum were mine portnoy getting Tom DeLonged and the astonishing
Did those last long, I doubt it

I'm not 1000% sure what that means, but it got a laugh out loud nonetheless.

I remember a lot of people being pretty happy when Mike left. I do think it was misguided, a lot of fans were just blaming Mike for what they perceived to be a dip in quality of the band, and MP was an easy target since he was always putting himself out there. In retrospect it's a bit silly. But I remember MP one thing back in the band shortly after leaving and I cannot imagine what would have happened to the fandom if they had really let him back in because a lot of people were really excited to see how the band would grow out from under MP's thumb.

I was definitely one of those people that thought it was a good move for the band to go without him. I wasn’t a big fan of SC and BC&SL (at the time) and like you said, I blamed Mike. I felt ADTOE was a return to form, and I thought the band was headed in a better direction.  Looking back now, there is something missing since he’s been gone. I’ve mentioned before that it took several albums for me to notice it. Portnoy was constantly pushing to try new things and find inspiration in other places. It started to cause some unbalanced albums. The last three with him were “peaks and valleys” types but man were the peaks fucking huge! 

As for the last part, I think the vast majority of fans, outside of this forum, would have welcomed Portnoy back at any time. And still would. All over Facebook , YouTube and Reddit you still see all of the “bring back MP” or “the good ol’ days with MP”  comments abound.

I think the something missing is a voice that has equal weight in the songwriting discussion - for better or for worse. Mangini obviously does not have the pull that MP did to sway the songwriting or the production.

One thing to consider is the effect that time has on emotions and opinions. A lot of people were very unhappy about the last MP albums (and yes, a lot of people were fine or happy with them) but over a decade has passed and now those feelings have softened or been forgotten. Passions have moderated and nostalgia has crept in. But how good were the last 3 MP albums, really? You state you weren't a fan of the last 2 and blamed MP. I quite agree with you here. But do you think the recent MM albums were worse?

I know I do.  Maybe "worse" isn't the word; maybe "on par" is the word.   I never thought SC or BC&SL sucked.   They weren't SFAM or 8V (I thing TOT is on the same level as SC and BC&SL, maybe even a half step below), but then again what was?  U2 has been chasing the JT and AB! for decades, but that doesn't mean every thing after "sucks". 

I do think that while they are still very good, while they still make music I want to hear, while I still want to see them live, they are not the same band as when Mike P. was there. They lost a bit of je nais se quoi that hasn't returned as of yet.

I think this is a good explanation.

And BarstoolWarrior…what I mean is that the last couple with MP albums had their ups and downs, the Mangini albums are mostly…boring.

[hefdaddy42]

I'm kind of of up and down on Systematic Chaos, but all of the Mangini albums are better than Black Clouds & Silver Linings.

[Glasser]

I'm kind of of up and down on Systematic Chaos, but all of the Mangini albums are better than Black Clouds & Silver Linings.

I personally like BC&SL better than The Astonishing.

[Trav86]

Neither SC or BCSL are faves of mine, but I can say that I like them a lot more now than when they came out.

[bosk1]

I've always liked SC a lot, despite a significant chunk of the album not doing it for me (Repentence, Prophets, Ministry).  BCSL is way down the list, although still having some really cool material as well.  But I would probably put every single Mangini-era album above both of them. 

But what does that have to do with James' interview comments about his singing?

[Trav86]

But what does that have to do with James' interview comments about his singing?

No idea. We came to a fork in the road, and went the wrong way

[WilliamMunny]

But what does that have to do with James' interview comments about his singing?

No idea. We came to a fork in the road, and went the wrong way

You might say, 'we crossed the crooked step' 

[HOF]

But what does that have to do with James' interview comments about his singing?

No idea. We came to a fork in the road, and went the wrong way

You might say, 'we crossed the crooked step' 

You might say this thread took a dramatic turn. But I bet if we keep going long enough it will eventually come full circle.

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

I'm kind of of up and down on Systematic Chaos, but all of the Mangini albums are better than Black Clouds & Silver Linings.

noooo

the count and nightmare alone make it better than most of them!

[nikatapi]

I also agree on BC&SL, i consider it one of the worst DT albums, especially in terms of lyrics.
On topic though, it's a great showcase for James, and the bonus disc with the covers has some excellent singing.

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

the covers bonus disc indeed rules

[bosk1]

Like the album proper, the covers disc has got some good stuff and some stuff I am not interested in very much. 

I definitely put Black Clouds in my bottom 3.  But the thing is, at least for me, the margin between albums is very, very small.  A "bottom 3" DT album for me still has some pretty spectacular music.  To compare Black Clouds with an album I rank several spots higher, for example, I would say that, minute-for-minute, Black Clouds has probably about the same amount of music I really enjoy as Images & Words (as well as about the same amount of music that I don't really care for).  Two things give Images a distinct edge for me:  (1) the peaks are generally just higher; and (2) when it comes to the songs themselves, there's nothing in any of the songs on Images that makes me say, "I really love MOST of this song, but this one thing right here feels out of place and distracts me every time I hear it."  Black Clouds has that latter factor.  Even on a song as nearly-perfect as Nightmare, there's that one little bit that is really distracting to me.  The Astonishing is the only other album that has that for me.  In every other case, I can just take a song and either like it or don't like it.  But those two albums have a few spots that are very frustrating because I am otherwise really enjoying myself, but then find myself taken out of the moment by something really distracting.

[gzarruk]

The Astonishing is the only other album that has that for me.

It's the "music player" section, isn't it? It gets me every time

[hefdaddy42]

I'm kind of of up and down on Systematic Chaos, but all of the Mangini albums are better than Black Clouds & Silver Linings.

noooo

the count and nightmare alone make it better than most of them!

They certainly do NOT.

[bosk1]

The Astonishing is the only other album that has that for me.

It's the "music player" section, isn't it? It gets me every time

What?    No, of course not.  That part is amazing.  Why would you say that?

[crystalstars17]

Omg people, I LOVE Black Clouds. 🖤 Top 3 for me!

But to each their own!

[Schurftkut]

the cover disc was the better one, so yeah BCSL is bottom 4 on my list

[hefdaddy42]

the cover disc was the better one

Agreed.

The only album I have ranked lower than BC&SL is WDADU.

[JeopardousRaven]

Black Clouds has a lot of songs I really want to like but are held back for one reason or another:

A Nightmare to Remember: I hate Portnoy's DAY AFTER DAY section. I normally can tolerate his vocals but he really should have stayed behind the drum kit for this one. It completely ruins the studio version of this song. I exclusively listen to the Berlin 2019 version, I love James's wicked scream.

Rite of Passage: Cool lyrics and concept but just drags on too long. It seems like they were trying to make it this album's As I am/Panic Attack/Constant Motion but it's just not nearly as catchy or engaging as any of those songs.

Wither: I actually dig this song and think it's a pretty nice ballad.

The Shattered Fortress: Weak lyrics ("I AM RESPONSIBLE!!!" just makes me cringe every time) and borrows way too much from other songs in the suite. The fact that it ends with The Glass Prison's intro riff also makes no sense. The entire suite is about Portnoy's evolution from alcoholism to sobriety, so why TF would it end with the same notes it began with??

The Best of Times: Again, weak lyrics. I get that it's a very heartfelt message from Portnoy to his dad but some of it is just a bit too on the nose for me. Petrucci's guitar solo is incredible though. Thank god they didn't let Portnoy sing this one at least.

The Count of Tuscany: 10/10, I love this song and think it's perfect as is. The cheesy lyrics actually really fit the B-movie horror vibes of the song. One of my favorite things they've ever done.

Labrie slays Stargazer and To Tame a Land on the bonus disk. I don't really know any of the other songs (besides Larks but that's an instrumental) so I haven't bothered to listen to them.

[TAC]

I don't know of he slays To Tame A Land. I wished they had rerecorded the vocals during those sessions.

But he does indeed slay Stargazer....and the Queen tracks and TYFFMH.
I wish they let him sing like that on the album proper. They really cage him in in the studio.

[gmillerdrake]

A Nightmare to Remember: I hate Portnoy's DAY AFTER DAY section. I normally can tolerate his vocals but he really should have stayed behind the drum kit for this one. It completely ruins the studio version of this song. I exclusively listen to the Berlin 2019 version, I love James's wicked scream.

Not to mention the blast beat section that is completely unnecessary and out of place AND the fact the song drags on forever....song should've ended around the 13-14 minute mark....those last couple minutes are just filler BS that do nothing but bloat the song.

[bosk1]

Nah, the song is just about perfect in every way.  Other than the "rrrrrrrrrrrraaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!111!!," there isn't a thing I would change about it.

[MirrorMask]

The song for me works just fine up until the end of the Beautiful Agony section. Then it kinda goes off in weird ways (roahr included). An external producer could have suggested both a way to work around the possible ways to get to that part, and also how to organize better the second half of the song.

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

it's beautiful and i love it

[EPIC Outro]

I've never had any problem with Portnoy's vocals on ANTR, I just wish the song had a big final movement instead of just meandering to a finish. I have similar feelings about the ending of Pale Blue Dot.

[cramx3]

I'm a fairly big fan of BC&SL.  It ranks somewhere in the midle of the pack for me, but I really enjoyed it on release and it still sits fairly well to my ears. The bonus disc is really good as well, but it certainly isn't better than the original music.  DT have always done really good covers IMO.

[bosk1]

The bonus disc is really good as well, but it certainly isn't better than the original music.  DT have always done really good covers IMO.

Agreed.

[crystalstars17]

nothing to see. wrong thread. 🌚

[jammindude]