DT16 Timeline Thread - MP finished recording drum parts, recording continues

[Progmaniac1988]

I like the album enough. TCOT is a top 10 song. TSF is underrated as hell. Wither is a nice change of pace for them. ANTR and TBOT are okay once every few years, though both contain incredible bits (Beautiful Agony and the solo on TBOT) and some cringey stuff in those same songs. Forsaken could be deleted from history and no one would care. An album that could have been trimmed or edited some and maybe would be a top 3 album.

Got ya, Hey man DT has so many great albums and songs that us fans are all over the board with favorites lol. I guess that’s what makes our conversations between us fans so engaging lol Forsaken was on Systematic Chaos btw. So that don’t count lol

[gzarruk]

MP commented on the post about epics

Mike Portnoy
For those asking: not to take away from Only A Matter Of Time, Space-Dye Vest, BTS or PBD as great album closers…they just don’t fall under the double-digit “Epic” description (ex: 10+ Mins) that is the point of this post 😉

Nice to see him acknowledge the MM era albums directly as well, though TA is nowhere to be found

[nobloodyname]

Nice to see him acknowledge the MM era albums directly as well, though TA is nowhere to be found

He's just reflecting the thoughts of a large tranche of DT fandom

[Trav86]

Nice to see him acknowledge the MM era albums directly as well, though TA is nowhere to be found

Or Trial of Tears.

[MirrorMask]

I wonder if Portnoy, during all these years out of DT, dreamed of what his comeback album with the band would be like. And if so, how much he managed to get his way, given that he's mellowed out over the years and he's no longer the control freak he once was.

[Progmaniac1988]

Portnoy actually responded that Trial of tears is on the instagram version of the post, but not the facebook post for some reason and he was gunna try to get that fixed.

[Trav86]

Portnoy actually responded that Trial of tears is on the instagram version of the post, but not the facebook post for some reason and he was gunna try to get that fixed.

Lol, that’s cool.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

Personally I never got the hate BCSL got. Some amazing songs on there. Nightmare, Count, Best of times, Shattered fortress all great imo. Right of passage and wither are probably my least listened to on the album, but those are still solid songs too. 🤷 maybe I’m alone here, but never understood the hate.

It has some super high highs - that's for sure. I always thought Best of Times was an underrated song. I hear a classic prog metal song with all of the familiar DT influences plus a masterpiece of a guitar solo. The lyrics are also underrated. I don't listen to it that often because it's super heavy but it's really good and hope it is on the upcoming tour.

Nightmare is a great track and so is Count. Those songs each have issues that detract from how good the music is but they have endured as fan favorites. Shattered Fortress is another good song though not as much original material as the others.

I quite agree with you Rite of Passage and Wither are the weakest two songs.

I get some of the criticism at the end of the day. It's a pretty uneven album with 2 meh songs on it (combined 13m), a 12m song with a lot of recycled material, and questionable - if not comic- vocal and lyrical choices on two other long songs. But as I opened with, there is also a lot of greatness.

[faizoff]

Portnoy actually responded that Trial of tears is on the instagram version of the post, but not the facebook post for some reason and he was gunna try to get that fixed.

It's also on the band's Twitter post.

[Lonk]

I like the album enough. TCOT is a top 10 song. TSF is underrated as hell. Wither is a nice change of pace for them. ANTR and TBOT are okay once every few years, though both contain incredible bits (Beautiful Agony and the solo on TBOT) and some cringey stuff in those same songs. Forsaken could be deleted from history and no one would care. An album that could have been trimmed or edited some and maybe would be a top 3 album.

While Forsaken is on a different album, just wanted to say that I disagree because I love Forsaken.

But yeah, I never cared about TCOT, and I struggle with ANTR, but beyond that I enjoy the other 4 songs. I'm on record saying that I like Rite of Passage much more than most.

[Progmaniac1988]

It has some super high highs - that's for sure. I always thought Best of Times was an underrated song. I hear a classic prog metal song with all of the familiar DT influences plus a masterpiece of a guitar solo. The lyrics are also underrated. I don't listen to it that often because it's super heavy but it's really good and hope it is on the upcoming tour.

Nightmare is a great track and so is Count. Those songs each have issues that detract from how good the music is but they have endured as fan favorites. Shattered Fortress is another good song though not as much original material as the others.

I quite agree with you Rite of Passage and Wither are the weakest two songs.

I get some of the criticism at the end of the day. It's a pretty uneven album with 2 meh songs on it (combined 13m), a 12m song with a lot of recycled material, and questionable - if not comic- vocal and lyrical choices on two other long songs. But as I opened with, there is also a lot of greatness.

Fair points man, Fair points. I quess it’s one of those albums I’ve grown very attached to over the years. Flaws and all lol. Even the hoakiness of COT lyrics. Can’t help to imagine modern day petrucci alone scared in the counts basement during the finale. Always gives me a chuckle!

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

I like the album enough. TCOT is a top 10 song. TSF is underrated as hell. Wither is a nice change of pace for them. ANTR and TBOT are okay once every few years, though both contain incredible bits (Beautiful Agony and the solo on TBOT) and some cringey stuff in those same songs. Forsaken could be deleted from history and no one would care. An album that could have been trimmed or edited some and maybe would be a top 3 album.

Forsaken is on Systematic Chaos. Did you mean Wither?

[hefdaddy42]

BC&SL is definitely not universally liked.

For example, I fucking hate it.

[DTA]

Aside from Octavarium, every album from 6D to BC&SL felt like quantity (aka long songs) was taking precedence over quality. Chop down Nightmare, Passage, TBoT, and TSF into more concise, less repetitive songs, and it’s a great album. But the bloated song lengths make it a chore. Same with Train of Thought imo.

[Jamesman42]

Forsaken is on Systematic Chaos. Did you mean Wither?

I mixed it up with another crappy song, AROP.

[Kyo]

Aside from Octavarium, every album from 6D to BC&SL felt like quantity (aka long songs) was taking precedence over quality. Chop down Nightmare, Passage, TBoT, and TSF into more concise, less repetitive songs, and it’s a great album. But the bloated song lengths make it a chore. Same with Train of Thought imo.

Absolutely. With Six Degrees you could blame it on over-enthusiasm. But with ToT they set out to write a "classic metal album" with about 8 tracks, around 50-60 minutes long. As a reference, Master of Puppets was 55 minutes long, under 7 minutes per song on average. And yet, ToT ended up being 70 minutes long with only 7 songs, just under 10 minutes per song. And one of those songs was Vacant, almost an intro for the following piece, so the remaining tracks averaged 11.5 minutes in length. I don't mind longer pieces, but these sounded like it, too - unfocused and full of long solos. Octavarium really was the exception in that decade, as otherwise this sadly became the norm.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

Aside from Octavarium, every album from 6D to BC&SL felt like quantity (aka long songs) was taking precedence over quality. Chop down Nightmare, Passage, TBoT, and TSF into more concise, less repetitive songs, and it’s a great album. But the bloated song lengths make it a chore. Same with Train of Thought imo.

I don't disagree with what you said but out of curiosity where is the bloat in TBoT? That is the only long track on the album that doesn't feel like a chore due to directionless riffage.

[gborland]

TBoT could have been a 5-minute ballad. Instead they dragged it out for 13 minutes.

[Progmaniac1988]

To me SFAM thru BCSL are my favs. That era is just what I go back to most. (I love the earlier and later albums too) I love those long epics on those albums. BCSL is definitely very love or hate for the most part I noticed.

[Wim Kruithof]

I like the album enough. TCOT is a top 10 song. TSF is underrated as hell. Wither is a nice change of pace for them. ANTR and TBOT are okay once every few years, though both contain incredible bits (Beautiful Agony and the solo on TBOT) and some cringey stuff in those same songs. Forsaken could be deleted from history and no one would care. An album that could have been trimmed or edited some and maybe would be a top 3 album.

Count me in your camp as well. The Shattered Fortress and The Count of Tuscany are amongst their very best pieces ever written. And never before or after they released such a brilliant special edition, with all these hommage-covers. Black Clouds is underrated and I would be so satisfied if the newest album would come near.

[Progmaniac1988]

Count me in your camp as well. The Shattered Fortress and The Count of Tuscany are amongst their very best pieces ever written. And never before or after they released such a brilliant special edition, with all these hommage-covers. Black Clouds is underrated and I would be so satisfied if the newest album would come near.

Really nice to see some black clouds love on here lol

[ZirconBlue]

BC&SL is definitely not universally liked.

For example, I fucking hate it.

I don't hate it, but it is my least favorite DT album. 

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

TBoT could have been a 5-minute ballad. Instead they dragged it out for 13 minutes.

Well the guitar solo is 3 minutes so it would sound odd if it were 5 minutes total.

[gzarruk]

I don't disagree with what you said but out of curiosity where is the bloat in TBoT? That is the only long track on the album that doesn't feel like a chore due to directionless riffage.

This is just my opinion, but there's a section about 3 minutes long from 7:05 up until when the solo starts that I would remove completely.

I obviously don't know how they wrote the song, and this is pure speculation on my part, but to me this song feels like it was originally going to be shorter, but then Mike had more lyrics he wanted to fit in due to the very personal theme and they had to stretch it out to fit those extra verses/sections. Again, this is just speculation.

As for Black Clouds as a whole, I like it a lot (as with every other DT album), but it does feel a bit like them just going through the motions as a band. The writing reflects that IMO. This obviously ended up being true to a degree, with MP feeling burnt out and him talking about strained relationships between some of them at the time.

[dparrott]

send them a fax so they don't forget!

a WHAT? 

An epic to close the album?  Sounds like DT by-the-book again. 

[Logain Ablar]

This is just my opinion, but there's a section about 3 minutes long from 7:05 up until when the solo starts that I would remove completely.

I obviously don't know how they wrote the song, and this is pure speculation on my part, but to me this song feels like it was originally going to be shorter, but then Mike had more lyrics he wanted to fit in due to the very personal theme and they had to stretch it out to fit those extra verses/sections. Again, this is just speculation.

Exactly my thoughts too. I like the song, but it screams out in need of some editing.  The  “thank you for the inspiration” part could easily be chopped for the betterment of the song.

That outro solo is god-tier though. For me, it’s one of the best things they’ve done. If it comes on in the car, I will refuse to turn it off, or get out of the car until it’s over, just out of sheer respect. 

[gborland]

Well the guitar solo is 3 minutes so it would sound odd if it were 5 minutes total.

The solo is good. The intro is good. (The second intro - the loud one - not the first quiet one. If you know what I mean.) The first intro could be completely removed, and the middle bit of the song could have been drastically shortened. The way it is, it just drags on forever.

[TheCountOfNYC]

uhhh you sure about that?

Sorry. Forgot the green text.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

Exactly my thoughts too. I like the song, but it screams out in need of some editing. The  “thank you for the inspiration” part could easily be chopped for the betterment of the song.

That outro solo is god-tier though. For me, it’s one of the best things they’ve done. If it comes on in the car, I will refuse to turn it off, or get out of the car until it’s over, just out of sheer respect. 

Interesting to see how many people feel the bloat. Musically, you're right this section doesn't need to exist.

But it's an important part of the lyrics. It's the only time when he is clearly speaking directly to his father and I think that's why I have always experienced it as an indispensable part of the song. TBOT is probably one of the few DT songs that I go into focusing on the lyrics as much as I do the music.

Yeah, that solo is next level. There is not a single wasted note. If they ever play it live that is going to be a beast for JP to pull off.

[TAC]

I love The Best Of Times as is. It's a Top 15 DT song for me, and is damn near perfect.

[gzarruk]

I really hope it gets played live soon.

[MoraWintersoul]

Side note, there's something very intimate and cool about MP referring to MM-era songs with their acronyms, it's like he's been here all along

[nobloodyname]

Side note, there's something very intimate and cool about MP referring to MM-era songs with their acronyms, it's like he's been here all along

A similar theme came up recently. I suggested he's likely to be familiar with every track on every DT he's not appeared on. My suggestion was summarily dismissed. But I stand by it. It's consistent with both his character and how he feels about 'his baby'.

[gborland]

He said PBD instead of Viper King as the DoT closer, for which he cannot be forgiven. 

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

I don't hate it, but it is my least favorite DT album. 

don't think i'd ever be able to say the astonishing and awake and WDADU could ever be better than BCSL