Re: DT16 Timeline Thread - John finished recording guitar parts

[bosk1]

Mike on FB:
Week 2 in the studio with DT going splendidly! The spirits & vibes are amazing and the creative juices are flowing…

I wonder if some songs are already existing! does anybody know if they write straight away or if they take time to fine tune all the equipments? is the first day in the studio the moment where everything starts, or when the band actually shows up, the engineers have already set up all the instruments, gear, checked that everything works etc etc...?

How they have normally written in the past is that members bring in ideas, but rarely fully written song, and they jam them out together and collectively compose them into full songs.  And I think the majority of those ideas are brought in by the two members who write on more "composition-oriented" instruments--namely, John and Jordan.  But the others bring in ideas as well, just to a lesser degree.  I assume they are basically following the same or similar pattern here.

[Setlist Scotty]

Mike on FB:
Week 2 in the studio with DT going splendidly! The spirits & vibes are amazing and the creative juices are flowing…

I wonder if some songs are already existing! does anybody know if they write straight away or if they take time to fine tune all the equipments? is the first day in the studio the moment where everything starts, or when the band actually shows up, the engineers have already set up all the instruments, gear, checked that everything works etc etc...?

How they have normally written in the past is that members bring in ideas, but rarely fully written song, and they jam them out together and collectively compose them into full songs.  And I think the majority of those ideas are brought in by the two members who write on more "composition-oriented" instruments--namely, John and Jordan.  But the others bring in ideas as well, just to a lesser degree.  I assume they are basically following the same or similar pattern here.

Bosk, what you're saying is no doubt true during the MM-era, but during the previous MP-era, the vast majority of ideas seemed to have come from the jam sessions that they would have. There would be exceptions to the rule, such as Wither, but that didn't happen often. Even with MM, I'm pretty sure there were at least some jam sessions that also happened to provide seeds for songs as well. Now that MP is back, while I wouldn't be surprised if the guys do bring in some song part ideas, I would imagine it would be less than what happened with MM (although probably more than when MP was originally in the band).

[fadetoblackdude7]

Well it’s been one full week in the studio, I’m guessing they have at least one song completed, possibly one of the longer pieces(?) The epics usually come first for them.

[bosk1]

Depending on how they are writing this time, they might have a song nearly completed.  Or they might possibly finish most of the structures for most of the songs before they finalize anything.  No idea which way they might go with that.

[The Letter M]

I'm curious if their first song will be the longest, or one of the longest on the album? Mike has always pointed out that the first song in their sessions was always a long one, though I cannot recall which ones they were off the top of my head, but it seemed to be true for most of their first ten albums.

-Marc.

[Setlist Scotty]

I'm curious if their first song will be the longest, or one of the longest on the album? Mike has always pointed out that the first song in their sessions was always a long one, though I cannot recall which ones they were off the top of my head, but it seemed to true for most of their first ten albums.

Off the top of my head, they were Scarred, Raise the Knife, The Glass Prison, In the Name of God, Sacrificed Sons, In the Presence of Enemies (I think) and A Nightmare to Remember (I think).

[MirrorMask]

With Mangini wasn't At Wit's End the first song written for d/t?

[Max Kuehnau]

Yes it was.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

Mike on FB:
Week 2 in the studio with DT going splendidly! The spirits & vibes are amazing and the creative juices are flowing…

I wonder if some songs are already existing! does anybody know if they write straight away or if they take time to fine tune all the equipments? is the first day in the studio the moment where everything starts, or when the band actually shows up, the engineers have already set up all the instruments, gear, checked that everything works etc etc...?

JP and JR are bringing in ideas. JP in the past has recorded ideas that may come up randomly and which could be recorded on his iphone. Or in the MM era, ideas were sent to JR and JP...for example the rhythmic patterns that eventually formed the Alien, or the time signature idea that eventually formed Pale Blue Dot. Ideas are likely fleshed out and strung together in a jam session. I would imagine the same format has been retained.

We may very well have a full song already. But also I have no clue what their approach is to this album as they try to do something unique on every record.

[Wim Kruithof]

Off the top of my head, they were Scarred, Raise the Knife, The Glass Prison, In the Name of God, Sacrificed Sons, In the Presence of Enemies (I think) and A Nightmare to Remember (I think).

Even if only one song would come at least a little close to Scarred, I'll be completely over the moon. Scarred and Surrounded are the two songs I've listened the most to, last couple of years. I usually give a full album a spin, but when I only have a little of time left, it's either an epic or (very often) one of these two.

I visit this thread multiple times these days, just to see a picture, FB post or any news from #16. Told my wife this afternoon... I'll never have been more exited about any albumrelease than this one.

[Glasser]

I think the album will be along the same lines as View, but I want to make a prediction that this one has some ballads. I say that because James can really shine in his low to mid range as his higher range has declined. Very excited and curious. This may be their most anticipated album yet.

[bosk1]

They really upped their ballad game considerably during the Mangini era, so I really hope that continues. 

[Dream Team]

They really upped their ballad game considerably during the Mangini era, so I really hope that continues.

Yes. Leaving out the TA ones, I would rank them:

Beneath the Surface
This is the Life
Along for the Ride
Out of Reach
Far From Heaven

[The Paddies]

They really upped their ballad game considerably during the Mangini era, so I really hope that continues.

Yes. Leaving out the TA ones, I would rank them:

Beneath the Surface
This is the Life
Along for the Ride
Out of Reach
Far From Heaven

I on the other hand prefer Another Day, Surrounded, Wait For Sleep The Silent Man, Lifting Shadows Off A Dream, Space-Dye Vest, To Live Forever, Eve, Hollow Years, Anna Lee, Through My Words, Through Her Eyes, One Last Time, The Spirit Carries On, Disappear, Goodnight Kiss, Vacant and I Walk Beside You over all these songs actually.

From the MM era ones I like Barstool Warrior and This Is The Life the most. Followed shortly by The Bigger Picture.

[Zantera]

I know we all hope MP returning and getting the classic lineup back will mean a new strong phase for the band with hopefully everyone getting along and making some quality music as well as having fun on stage. Still I just had the funniest image in my head where DT finish their next album tour cycle and MP goes "Its me or JLB I cant do this". 

For the first time in a long time I do feel curious about a new DT album beyond just "I guess I'll check it out because I have heard all the other ones" and MP is a big reason for that. But still I think tempered expectations are important. It's easy to hope for another Scenes or Six Degrees but realistically we might get something closer to Systematic Chaos or Black Clouds - aka the last few they did with this lineup before MP left. But hopefully him coming back creates an atmosphere where they all push themselves to make something cool. Some bands have a late career album that rivals the best albums they have done and it would be cool if DT had that.

[Dream Team]

@Paddies

A lot of those you listed aren’t ballads, otherwise Bosk and I wouldn’t have made that claim. Why didn’t you list Octavarium, A Change of Seasons, etc? Those have soft acoustic sections too.

[crystalstars17]

It's easy to hope for another Scenes or Six Degrees but realistically we might get something closer to Systematic Chaos or Black Clouds - aka the last few they did with this lineup before MP left. But hopefully him coming back creates an atmosphere where they all push themselves to make something cool. Some bands have a late career album that rivals the best albums they have done and it would be cool if DT had that.

Hopefully not another SC, though I wouldn't complain about more BCSL (for the most part). But honestly, they really need to blow the roof off with this one. Like, Scenes + Octavarium + View with a little Liquid Tension thrown in. I want to see a true culmination of all their best achievements.

[MoraWintersoul]

Still I just had the funniest image in my head where DT finish their next album tour cycle and MP goes "Its me or JLB I cant do this". 

I've had this thought too. It would not be funny if it actually happened, it would be very frustrating and sad, but the thought is funny as fuck Maturity and hopes are one thing, real life and touring is another and their track record for getting along in 2002-2010 is not as shiningly good as 1991-1999, to say the least.

[Zantera]

Still I just had the funniest image in my head where DT finish their next album tour cycle and MP goes "Its me or JLB I cant do this". 

I've had this thought too. It would not be funny if it actually happened, it would be very frustrating and sad, but the thought is funny as fuck Maturity and hopes are one thing, real life and touring is another and their track record for getting along in 2002-2010 is not as shiningly good as 1991-1999, to say the least.

Yeah like you say maturity and hope is one thing, also MP being out of the band for over a decade means maybe you forget some of the bad things and some of the good things are amplified. And also no matter how you feel about JLB these days, it would be impossible to argue against him having lost some vocal ability in the time since BCSL (it's only natural for any singer his age). We hope for the best but it's still a funny mental image. 

[Indiscipline]

Hopefully they are old and satisfied enough to shift their expectations (and relative stressful interpersonal dynamics) from "world domination" to "closing with grace".

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

Jeez, I hope we aren't getting ready for the closer yet. I have my eye on at least 4 more albums.

[hunnus2000]

Hopefully they are old and satisfied enough to shift their expectations (and relative stressful interpersonal dynamics) from "world domination" to "closing with grace".

I thought I saw an interview years ago where he said it was kind of freeing for him to just be the drummer and let someone else handle the big issues so I would be shocked if he went in there to control the band like he did when he was in DT. He even said that it's not his intent to be in a control freak
and he was willing to be a team player. (I'm paraphrasing).

[MirrorMask]

Hopefully they are old and satisfied enough to shift their expectations (and relative stressful interpersonal dynamics) from "world domination" to "closing with grace".

Yeah, that's a very wise way to look at it. The genre (a very niche one) is what it is. The music industry is what it is. There's simply no way, no matter what they do, that they "conquer the world" at their age with their back catalogue, unless they do such a dramatic genre switch to appeal to the masses. And even if they'd want to do it, what would they do? copy the Black Album?

They have their fans, their brand, their popularity and they're gonna keep that until the end, all together. They could write the best album of their discography and it still would be the best album of a prog metal band, it's not that they're gonna headline arenas and festivals all over Europe. This reunion is meant to ride in the sunset all together, while kicking ass with amazing music along the way, it's not to double or triple their sales.

[gborland]

They have their fans, their brand, their popularity and they're gonna keep that until the end, all together. They could write the best album of their discography and it still would be the best album of a prog metal band, it's not that they're gonna headline arenas and festivals all over Europe.

In 2011 they were literally headlining arenas and festivals in Europe. The High Voltage Festival, for example, where Judas Priest headlined the Saturday and then DT the Sunday.

Granted, High Voltage never came back the following year, but at least they did it...

[efx]

In 2011 they were literally headlining arenas and festivals in Europe. The High Voltage Festival, for example, where Judas Priest headlined the Saturday and then DT the Sunday.

Granted, High Voltage never came back the following year, but at least they did it...

Yeah, but that was a long time ago and the bands that are popular within the narrow confines of metal is different now than it was then. Not saying this to denigrate DT or anything but at this stage in their career, like most bands at a similar point what they have now is what they'll get popularity wise I think. And while I'm very stoked/interested in hearing how MP's return will make the music sound, outside of us hardcore fans I do wonder if it will make much of a difference to the general public.

[The Paddies]

@Paddies

A lot of those you listed aren’t ballads, otherwise Bosk and I wouldn’t have made that claim. Why didn’t you list Octavarium, A Change of Seasons, etc? Those have soft acoustic sections too.

Maybe we have different views on what's a ballad and what's not. I'm curious what songs I mentioned don't pass as a ballad for you and why. You say 'a lot'. I really can't see it that way actually. I think the songs I listed can all pass as ballads, because they are overall 'softer' and heavily based on melody, without heavy sections. And the lyrics, emotions and pathos of all the mentioned songs scream 'ballad', in my view anyway.

The big difference with the both long songs you mention is that those songs have metal sequences as well and therefore don't qualify as a ballad in my opinion. You mention it yourself: they have 'acoustic sections'. But they are much more than those acoustic sections.

[The Paddies]

@Paddies

A lot of those you listed aren’t ballads, otherwise Bosk and I wouldn’t have made that claim. Why didn’t you list Octavarium, A Change of Seasons, etc? Those have soft acoustic sections too.

Maybe we have different views on what's a ballad and what's not. I'm curious what songs I mentioned don't pass as a ballad for you and why. You say 'a lot'. I really can't see it that way actually. I think the songs I listed can all pass as ballads, because they are overall 'softer' and heavily based on melody, without heavy sections. And the lyrics, emotions and pathos of all the mentioned songs scream 'ballad', in my view anyway.

The big difference with the both long songs you mention is that those songs have metal sequences as well and therefore don't qualify as a ballad in my opinion. You mention it yourself: they have 'acoustic sections'. But they are much more than those acoustic sections.

[The Letter M]

John just shared this update on Facebook!

Busted out the full @mesaengineering fleet for an epic in-studio shootout in preparation for guitar tracking today on the new @dreamtheaterofficial album!

https://www.facebook.com/share/sb68bY8kxTcWvioc/?mibextid=oFDknk

-Marc.

[wasteland]

Does this imply that they have finished writing the full album? Or are recording a song as soon as it comes together before moving back to writing other pieces?

[TAC]

It means it's just another JP post pimping some gear.. I couldn't be less impressed with this kind of post.

[birchbark]

@Paddies

A lot of those you listed aren’t ballads, otherwise Bosk and I wouldn’t have made that claim. Why didn’t you list Octavarium, A Change of Seasons, etc? Those have soft acoustic sections too.

Maybe we have different views on what's a ballad and what's not. I'm curious what songs I mentioned don't pass as a ballad for you and why. You say 'a lot'. I really can't see it that way actually. I think the songs I listed can all pass as ballads, because they are overall 'softer' and heavily based on melody, without heavy sections. And the lyrics, emotions and pathos of all the mentioned songs scream 'ballad', in my view anyway.

The big difference with the both long songs you mention is that those songs have metal sequences as well and therefore don't qualify as a ballad in my opinion. You mention it yourself: they have 'acoustic sections'. But they are much more than those acoustic sections.

I on the other hand prefer Another Day, Surrounded, Wait For Sleep The Silent Man, Lifting Shadows Off A Dream, Space-Dye Vest, To Live Forever, Eve, Hollow Years, Anna Lee, Through My Words, Through Her Eyes, One Last Time, The Spirit Carries On, Disappear, Goodnight Kiss, Vacant and I Walk Beside You over all these songs actually.

From the MM era ones I like Barstool Warrior and This Is The Life the most. Followed shortly by The Bigger Picture.

Of your list I wouldn't consider The Bigger Picture or One Last Time ballads. It comes down to both of them having heavier sections. Granted, not as heavy as, say, The Mirror or As I Am, but still much heavier than something that is unambiguously a ballad, like Wait for Sleep.

[Logain Ablar]

Does this imply that they have finished writing the full album? Or are recording a song as soon as it comes together before moving back to writing other pieces?

I imagine he might be just experimenting with the chocolate cake recipe, to get the right guitar tone for recording.

They’d probably want to lock in the rhythm guitar tone, at least, to keep it consistent for the whole album.

Or maybe they are actually ready to crack on with recording some songs? I don’t know how far a song would need to be in the writing process before starting to record. They could record a basic track, then refine it, and go back and record the final version?

Anyone know what their typical process is?

[fadetoblackdude7]

Tracking usually doesn’t begin until all the music is written. But you never know, they could switch it up any time they want. Correct me if I’m wrong, but for DT12 parts of the writing sessions made it to the final album, because Richard Chycki was recording everything they were doing.

[Mosh]

Imo it could mean anything from they have a song written and ready to record or the whole album is finished and there are bass/drum tracks for JP to record over.

[Setlist Scotty]

Does this imply that they have finished writing the full album? Or are recording a song as soon as it comes together before moving back to writing other pieces?

Given that MP is back in the band, I would tend to believe that they are writing and recording simultaneously like they did when MP was originally in the band, which is the way the LTE albums as well as SFaM through BCaSL were all done, except for ToT.