Re: DT16 Timeline Thread - John finished recording guitar parts

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

i think no matter what they do my spine is gonna tongle

[fadetoblackdude7]

I don't want covers or revisited old stuff.

I just want 75 minutes of awesome spine-tingling new DT.

I’m with you on that man. And I think it’s likely we’ll get our wish!

[hefdaddy42]

I don't want covers or revisited old stuff.

I just want 75 minutes of awesome spine-tingling new DT.

+ 1,000

[HOF]

If they are taking requests, they could finally do proper studio versions of Speak to Me and The Way It Used to Be.

[Kocak]

I don't want covers or revisited old stuff.

I just want 75 minutes of awesome spine-tingling new DT.

I agree with this except for the 75-minute bit.
I want them to do a 45-50 minute banger.

[Setlist Scotty]

I don't want covers or revisited old stuff.

I just want 75 minutes of awesome spine-tingling new DT.

I agree with this except for the 75-minute bit.
I want them to do a 45-50 minute banger.

Well, they could do a 75 minute album, and then you could remove whatever 25-30 minutes you like the least! Then you'd still get your 45-50 minute banger. 

[The Letter M]

I don't want covers or revisited old stuff.

I just want 75 minutes of awesome spine-tingling new DT.

I agree with this except for the 75-minute bit.
I want them to do a 45-50 minute banger.

Well, it *is* an Inside Out Music record, so maybe they'll do 70 minutes of new music, then release a 50-minute album and 20 minutes of bonus disc "on the cutting room floor" material. 

OR...maybe they'll release the instrumental version of the record as the second disc!

-Marc.

[ZirconBlue]

If they are going to take time and energy to record music at all, I would much rather it be new original DT music than covers.  I just don't see the point of them recording covers.  Please no covers.

This is a false dichotomy.  They could take the time and energy to record new DT music, then still probably bust out some cool covers. 

[Kocak]

I don't want covers or revisited old stuff.

I just want 75 minutes of awesome spine-tingling new DT.

I agree with this except for the 75-minute bit.
I want them to do a 45-50 minute banger.

Well, it *is* an Inside Out Music record, so maybe they'll do 70 minutes of new music, then release a 50-minute album and 20 minutes of bonus disc "on the cutting room floor" material. 

OR...maybe they'll release the instrumental version of the record as the second disc!

-Marc.

I'm very old-fashioned when it comes to these release gimmicks. Just give me a good album and I'm okay with no bonus material.

[Kocak]

I don't want covers or revisited old stuff.

I just want 75 minutes of awesome spine-tingling new DT.

I agree with this except for the 75-minute bit.
I want them to do a 45-50 minute banger.

Well, they could do a 75 minute album, and then you could remove whatever 25-30 minutes you like the least! Then you'd still get your 45-50 minute banger. 

As a matter of fact, I have done this in the past.

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

I don't want covers or revisited old stuff.

I just want 75 minutes of awesome spine-tingling new DT.

I agree with this except for the 75-minute bit.
I want them to do a 45-50 minute banger.

Well, they could do a 75 minute album, and then you could remove whatever 25-30 minutes you like the least! Then you'd still get your 45-50 minute banger. 

As a matter of fact, I have done this in the past.

same

[gzarruk]

I don't want covers or revisited old stuff.

I just want 75 minutes of awesome spine-tingling new DT.

I agree with this except for the 75-minute bit.
I want them to do a 45-50 minute banger.

Well, they could do a 75 minute album, and then you could remove whatever 25-30 minutes you like the least! Then you'd still get your 45-50 minute banger. 

As a matter of fact, I have done this in the past.

This is me as well (not with DT, though).

[Setlist Scotty]

If they are going to take time and energy to record music at all, I would much rather it be new original DT music than covers.  I just don't see the point of them recording covers.  Please no covers.

This is a false dichotomy.  They could take the time and energy to record new DT music, then still probably bust out some cool covers.

Exactly. And especially with them having their own studio to work in, they won't have a clock looming over their heads to the same extent that they did previously. So if they should be able to take all the time in the world to work on the new album, and then once they're done, learn some covers or revisit old obscure songs to bang out relatively fast since they likely are already familiar with them.

[evilasiojr]

I really like DT albums that are as long as an album can be! These guys have enough creativity to write 75ish min of amazing music, it just takes the musical direction to make it all sound coherent, and I think MP and JP producing together makes me hopeful for that.

[Cool Chris]

I don't want covers or revisited old stuff.

I just want 75 minutes of awesome spine-tingling new DT.

+ 1,000

This. Did Rush ever consider for a second to re-record their debut album with Neil 30+ years later? Let's not George Lucas your discography. You made n album, it wasn't very good, was never highly ranked by fans, but it was an album recorded at a moment in time by some aspiring young musicians finding their way. Let's leave it at that.

[Setlist Scotty]

I don't want covers or revisited old stuff.

I just want 75 minutes of awesome spine-tingling new DT.

+ 1,000

This. Did Rush ever consider for a second to re-record their debut album with Neil 30+ years later? Let's not George Lucas your discography. You made n album, it wasn't very good, was never highly ranked by fans, but it was an album recorded at a moment in time by some aspiring young musicians finding their way. Let's leave it at that.

Rush didn't. But then again, Rush never even reissued their first single and B-side either. Nor did they ever release any of their demos. So in that regard, they're not the same, and it's one of the few areas where I'm glad DT is different. Not only that, but by re-recording old songs, whether WDaDU, the Majesty demos or other old songs never properly recorded/released, they're not gonna pull a George Lucas. WDaDU will continue to be available, whether they like it or not because they have ZERO control over it. And having just reissued the Majesty and WDaDU-era demos through LNFA relatively recently, I doubt those will get canned the way George put an end to the original film versions of the original trilogy. So apples to oranges there, too. And again, if they are done as a bonus in addition to a proper album, what's the harm? No one's putting a gun to your head and forcing you to listen to them.

I know I've stated this before, but the one thing I hope for is that they'll continue writing to their hearts' content, following their muse instead of automatically stopping the moment they have "enough" material for an album (whether that be 40 or 80 minutes or somewhere in between). Keep writing to see where things go, pick out the best and/or most coherent bunch of songs and file the rest away for bonus tracks, compilations, mid-tour EP releases, etc.

[Cool Chris]

Second part first, I agree 100%.

First part... I was being a bit harsh for argumentative's sake. Sure, if they got the time and energy, they can record whatever they want. Most of that stuff doesn't move my needle, but that's a me issue. If you enjoy it, then it's a win. I just never get caught up in a band's history, regardless of who it is. I always want to hear what they are going to do next.

[MirrorMask]

I know I've stated this before, but the one thing I hope for is that they'll continue writing to their hearts' content, following their muse instead of automatically stopping the moment they have "enough" material for an album (whether that be 40 or 80 minutes or somewhere in between). Keep writing to see where things go, pick out the best and/or most coherent bunch of songs and file the rest away for bonus tracks, compilations, mid-tour EP releases, etc.

This, so very much this.

You know the saying "you can fool all the people for some time, and you can fool some people all the time, but you can't fool all the people all the time?" well, going on a tangent off that, you can write amazing music in 2-3 weeks some times, but no band is that godly good that they can write the best album on the fly all the time. There's bound to be some sessions where going on with the writing until the muse is there can produce better music than the first 70 or 80 created.

[gborland]

And again, if they are done as a bonus in addition to a proper album, what's the harm? No one's putting a gun to your head and forcing you to listen to them.

The harm is that it's a distraction. I want them to put 100% of their focus and energy into writing and recording the best album they can possibly make after 13 years apart, to the extent that they are wrung out and exhausted when it's done. Maybe that means playing around with 2 hours' worth of material and distilling it down to the best 75 minutes for the final recording.

If they still have the time and energy to record a covers album or reworked old stuff, then it means they left all that energy on the table and didn't put it into the main album.

[Kyo]

I know I've stated this before, but the one thing I hope for is that they'll continue writing to their hearts' content, following their muse instead of automatically stopping the moment they have "enough" material for an album (whether that be 40 or 80 minutes or somewhere in between). Keep writing to see where things go, pick out the best and/or most coherent bunch of songs and file the rest away for bonus tracks, compilations, mid-tour EP releases, etc.

Yep, I feel the same way. This is why I brought up the issue of B-sides and bonus tracks when I interviewed James in 2011. Unfortunately, his reaction was an enthusiastic "We haven't had any B-sides in ages because we're so great at writing exactly the kinds of songs we still need to round out the album" while I was trying to get at your take up there. But I didn't press the issue, cause God knows I had enough controversial things I was bringing up already. 

Honestly, I just don't think DT have been as great at this as he claimed. I think most people would agree that there have been some weaker songs on their albums. And even if you put that down to different opinions, I think Systematic Chaos in particular is an example how they failed to basically write the missing puzzle piece for an album. They ended up splitting In the Presence of Enemies because they felt it was the best opener *AND* the best closer for the album out of what they had written. Which I think was correct, but the solution to this situation should've been to do exactly what James claims they do - to write another song that would make for a great alternative opener so you don't have to randomly split up the epic. But that didn't happen because they had 78 minutes written and that's when the album was "done" for them. And I agree with Scotty that it would be better if that wasn't the case. Aim for less from the start or keep writing and then filter some stuff out, there are many ways to do this differently.

[Trav86]

If they are going to take time and energy to record music at all, I would much rather it be new original DT music than covers.  I just don't see the point of them recording covers.  Please no covers.

Thank you!

[Trav86]

Let me ask this. Why do people want them to do covers? What is appealing about it? DT doesn’t cover other songs and do anything different with them, they do note for note replications. The only difference is modern sounding production and James’s vocals. That tends to make the songs seem sterile. If you like some songs they cover, then why not just listen to the original?

[jammindude]

Let me ask this. Why do people want them to do covers? What is appealing about it? DT doesn’t cover other songs and do anything different with them, they do note for note replications. The only difference is modern sounding production and James’s vocals. That tends to make the songs seem sterile. If you like some songs they cover, then why not just listen to the original?

I mean, Am I Evil is a note for note recreation but with a better production and James Hetfield on vocals, and I like that quite a bit.

[Adami]

Let me ask this. Why do people want them to do covers? What is appealing about it? DT doesn’t cover other songs and do anything different with them, they do note for note replications. The only difference is modern sounding production and James’s vocals. That tends to make the songs seem sterile. If you like some songs they cover, then why not just listen to the original?

I mean, Am I Evil is a note for note recreation but with a better production and James Hetfield on vocals, and I like that quite a bit.

Very true. It's a rarity though since they bring the Metallica energy that wasn't originally there.

DT covers, I agree with Trav, are a bit bland for me. I don't love note for note recreations and DT simply doesn't inject any special energy or personality into them the way Metallica does. They just kind of clinically play the song. If they want to do that, cool, but I won't be listening.

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

Let me ask this. Why do people want them to do covers? What is appealing about it? DT doesn’t cover other songs and do anything different with them, they do note for note replications. The only difference is modern sounding production and James’s vocals. That tends to make the songs seem sterile.

i see where you're coming from, and your point about dream theater's approach to covers is valid. their note-for-note replications, albeit with modern production and labrie's vocals, can sometimes give off a more sterile vibe compared to the original versions. for me, the appeal of dream theater doing covers stems from the desire to hear their interpretation of classic tracks. the hope being that their technical prowess and unique musical style would bring a fresh perspective, even if it doesn't always deviate significantly from the original arrangement.

If you like some songs they cover, then why not just listen to the original?

it's a matter of personal taste, i suppose. some may appreciate the band's precision and the familiarity of their sound, while others might prefer the raw, unfiltered energy of the original.

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

Let me ask this. Why do people want them to do covers? What is appealing about it? DT doesn’t cover other songs and do anything different with them, they do note for note replications. The only difference is modern sounding production and James’s vocals. That tends to make the songs seem sterile. If you like some songs they cover, then why not just listen to the original?

I mean, Am I Evil is a note for note recreation but with a better production and James Hetfield on vocals, and I like that quite a bit.

Very true. It's a rarity though since they bring the Metallica energy that wasn't originally there.

DT covers, I agree with Trav, are a bit bland for me. I don't love note for note recreations and DT simply doesn't inject any special energy or personality into them the way Metallica does. They just kind of clinically play the song. If they want to do that, cool, but I won't be listening.

what's your favorite song ever? if DT covered that you still wouldn't listen? i call shenanigan

[Adami]

My favorite song ever is Idioglossia by Pain of Salvation.

I would be terrified of DT covering that. Not only would it miss the feel of the original but, under no circumstance, is James up for it.


I'm also a major Metallica fan and bought DT's cover of the MoP album way back in the day. Boring as all hell to me, haven't listened to it more than once or so.

[emtee]

They really try to shy away with anything that's been done before so I seriously doubt there will be covers.

[gborland]

I think DT's most successful reinterpretations of other bands' material is in the live context, when they weave snippets of other songs into their own material. One example that particularly stands out for me is when they incorporated Sugar Mice and Mother into Hollow Years (I think?) on the PN09 tour.

Their studio-recorded covers are just bland and pointless.

[gborland]

My all-time favourite song by another (non-DT) band is Infinite Dreams. If DT covered it I would listen to it maybe once or twice out of curiosity, but it would never be anywhere near as awesome as the original. Without Bruce's vocals and Martin Birch's production, the magic would be lost.

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

i'd love to hear DT to an in-the-studio-cover of my all-time favorite song, Rhapsody In Blue

[Metro]

Just listen to the LTE version?

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

Just listen to the LTE version?

I meant by Dream Theater proper. I would want James to vocalize some of the instruments, as well.

[Adami]

Well, while not at all probable, I hope you one day get your wish. I'll skip it along with other covers, but I hope everyone gets what they want.



Except Stadler.

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

i know it might sound crazy for JLB to vocalize some string and brass parts, but he's done crazier. after all, i did set up a gofundme to pay for this cameo once a few years ago https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoHCTSp1R8U