DT16 Timeline Thread - MP finished recording drum parts, recording continues

[EPIC Outro]

I want an album where each song is written as if it was a lost track from a previous Dream Theater album. So a song that feels like it was from the Images and Words sessions, another that could have been a fifteen minute track that could have fit on Distance Over Time. A really heavy, proggy track for The Astonishing describing the brewing war we never got to see. The Killing Hand 2 with a guest spot by Charlie Dominici. Maybe a track called Speak to Me that was meant for FII. Would certainly be interesting!

[Trav86]

Stock pictures thrown on a cover are lame, I really wish DT covers were inspired like MPT2 or busy like SDOIT

This. Create something new. Every cover they’ve done with Syme just come across as lazy.

I wouldn't say all of them, but most of them, specially the latest few.

8V: I don’t get. The Newton’s Pendulum makes sense, but why the girl?
SC: I like. It’s ugly, but I like it.
BC&SL: Sloppy and random
ADTOE: it’s ok, but a little too on the nose.
DT: kinda boring, but I’m ok with it.
DOT: meh.
View: the best, but still using a stock photo instead of just coming up with something new.

Also, every cover has a sky in it. Change it up.

[Madman Shepherd]

Stock pictures thrown on a cover are lame, I really wish DT covers were inspired like MPT2 or busy like SDOIT

This. Create something new. Every cover they’ve done with Syme just come across as lazy.

Two of my least favorite album covers. I don't get the Syme hate. I think the juxtaposition of various images often creates a unique concept.

I will say this though, the watermarks on the interior DT12 photos was incredibly lame. The pictures themselves I thought were cool.

[PMSummer]

The Octavarium cover holds a special place in my heart, but I can't help but be irked by the rope distance on the last ball in the album cover. Such a small detail, yet it bugs me whenever I look at it.

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

the Huge Hugh Haters (Triple H Clan) are out in full force today, i see

[Setlist Scotty]

8V: I don’t get. The Newton’s Pendulum makes sense, but why the girl?
SC: I like. It’s ugly, but I like it.
BC&SL: Sloppy and random
ADTOE: it’s ok, but a little too on the nose.
DT: kinda boring, but I’m ok with it.
DOT: meh.
View: the best, but still using a stock photo instead of just coming up with something new.

Also, every cover has a sky in it. Change it up.

8v: I believe the girl was to give a sense of scale of the Newton's cradle and also to help give a sense of motion.
SC: I like it too, but I wish the sense of scale of the various on/off ramps was done much better
BCaSL: I like the idea, but the execution was poor and sloppy - especially the majesty symbol appearing as nothing more than a crooked stain on the floor. That's why I made it part of a marble inlay in the floor when I did the Black Clouds and Silver Anniversary poster/shirt image (also used on the most current Lifting Shadows biography cover)
ADToE: overall I like it, but I wish Syme would've been more creative in how he put the majesty symbol on the tail of the plane
s/t: I think it works perfectly for a self titled album, although it took a long time for me to get used to the revised majesty symbol
d/t: far from my favorite cover, but at least it's better than what Hugh originally suggested, which was just a giant d/t fraction as it appears (IIRC) on the CD inlay
AVFtTotW: one of his better DT covers, but I agree that he shouldn't be so reliant on stock images

And as for a sky appearing on all the covers, there really isn't one on the s/t album. And besides that, there's a sky that appears on most of the other non-Huge Slime covers as well. 
 
 

The Octavarium cover holds a special place in my heart, but I can't help but be irked by the rope distance on the last ball in the album cover. Such a small detail, yet it bugs me whenever I look at it.

Agreed. I wish it would've been completely fixed, but IIRC, at least it was marginally better than the first version of the artwork, when the metal cables holding the balls were just purple lines. 
 
 

the Huge Hugh Haters (Triple H Clan) are out in full force today, i see

Is it being a "hater" by calling out the flaws in his designs, given that he is a professional and in known for his artwork? Given his stature and reputation, I would say he should be held to a much higher standard than someone making bootleg artwork by playing around with Photoshop at their house... 

[The Letter M]

Regarding Syme's artwork - if the band (or even just JP) didn't like it, they wouldn't go with it, right? So regardless of how good or bad their covers are, they've all had to have been approved by the band before the album went into printing and production. So I guess if you don't like them, then the band themselves (or just JP) are to blame just as much as Syme is.

-Marc.

[gzarruk]

ADToE: overall I like it, but I wish Syme would've been more creative in how he put the majesty symbol on the tail of the plane

As if having the same unicycle rider as Circus Maximus wasn't enough

[Setlist Scotty]

Regarding Syme's artwork - if the band (or even just JP) didn't like it, they wouldn't go with it, right? So regardless of how good or bad their covers are, they've all had to have been approved by the band before the album went into printing and production. So I guess if you don't like them, then the band themselves (or just JP) are to blame just as much as Syme is.

It's true that JP (and MP before him) approved all the artwork, but I kinda sense at least with MP, he was afraid to say much - why, I have no idea given that he/DT was a paying customer. When the cover art was released for a few albums and I'd see flaws in it, I'd e-mail MP about it to point out the problems, but my concerns were ignored, as if Hugh knew best. JP is less focused on some of the details that MP was, so I think it would be much easier for him to miss things than MP, although he did pass along my concerns with the whole shading fiasco that happened with the s/t cover, and that got fixed.
 
 

ADToE: overall I like it, but I wish Syme would've been more creative in how he put the majesty symbol on the tail of the plane

As if having the same unicycle rider as Circus Maximus wasn't enough

To be fair, the unicycle is different (can't remember which one is modified from the stock image) between the two covers. Not only that, but I'd imagine Hugh had no awareness of CM, and it's probably not that easy to find a unicycling clown to photograph without incurring a great expense. So I'll give him a pass on that one. 

[Stadler]

And let's not single out Hugh for those things.   Look at Sabbath Cross Purposes, and the Scorpions album cover.  The Clash, London Calling and Elvis Presley (though I'm going to guess that's more of an homage).  There are hundreds of album covers that evoke or outright mirror other album covers.

[Cool Chris]

the Huge Hugh Haters (Triple H Clan) are out in full force today, i see

But seriously, if there are that many fans who who dislike his DT album artwork, maybe the problem is him, not us. For myself, I don't get wrapped up in album art much. Syme's DT artwork is... fine. There are things I don't like but if I wasn't here to read and participate in discussions about those issues, I would never have given them a second though.

...and it's probably not that easy to find a unicycling clown to photograph without incurring a great expense. So I'll give him a pass on that one. 

Surely they could have found a guy who can ride a unicycle, and paid him $100 to dress up like a clown and ride around for 10-15 minutes while they took some pictures. 

[Madman Shepherd]

the Huge Hugh Haters (Triple H Clan) are out in full force today, i see

But seriously, if there are that many fans who who dislike his DT album artwork, maybe the problem is him, not us.

Well, I don't think there are that many. This board is certainly not an accurate samples size of the average fan

[DoctorAction]

I do like the View cover. And the DT12 cover (even though it's obvious, it's really pleasing to my eye - was that HS as well?).

Other than that, I don't dig Syme or DT covers much. I don't hate them but I just find them dull, for the most part.

DoT was ok but obvious and seemed completely unrelated to the content. Was there a song on it about robots outliving humans?

[Revenge319]

The only recent Dream Theater album cover I'm not a fan of is the Distance Over Time one.

DoT was ok but obvious and seemed completely unrelated to the content. Was there a song on it about robots outliving humans?

This pretty much sums up my thoughts, it just doesn't feel like it matches with the music in any way. I like the art itself (regardless of whether or not it's made with stock images), but besides that it feels a little lacking.

I think all the other Hugh Syme album covers are quite good, though. I especially enjoy the first few (Octavarium, Systematic Chaos, Black Clouds & Silver Linings). I think the end results are perfectly fine, even in DoT's case, though as such I think future album art could definitely benefit from a different, more creative approach. I don't think Syme himself is the problem, it's more that there could just be more work or unique ideas put into the art. I really like AVFTTOTW's artwork but it was slightly disappointing to see it was largely based upon a stock photo.

[Madman Shepherd]

The only recent Dream Theater album cover I'm not a fan of is the Distance Over Time one.

DoT was ok but obvious and seemed completely unrelated to the content. Was there a song on it about robots outliving humans?

This pretty much sums up my thoughts, it just doesn't feel like it matches with the music in any way. I like the art itself (regardless of whether or not it's made with stock images), but besides that it feels a little lacking.

I don't think album titles and covers necessarily need to have anything to do with the album itself. I mean, Images & Words is a lyric spoken in the album but does it really have anything to do with the album as a whole? Same with Falling Into Infinity of which the album cover has nothing to do with the title.

Most DT titles are like this.

With that said, I always kind of figured the DoT title and cover evoked a past meets future type of thing and in the back of my mind I kind of think that does fit the album. Not a specific song, but where the band was at. For the first time in decades they practically lived together, jammed, ate dinner, went on walks, and basically breathed the new album as a cohesive unit. It was like they were teenagers again yet they're all old and have grown children.

Their set for the tour also evoked a time when bands started to really up their showmanship. They went with the futuristic theme even thought it inherently didn't have much to do with the album and yet before the show they were playing a Kraftwerk album, a futuristic album made before I was even born.

Side note: somehow I never heard of Kraftwerk and fell in love with them thanks to DT. I got to see them in 2022 and it was mind blowing.

[Lax]

Still, when you watch I&W's cover, you link the heart to pull me under, the little girl to another day, etc...

I guess this convo is maybe not in the right topic, but it was interesting.

My deepest feeling is that when you understand the COLOSSAL work behind DT songs and the perfectionnism they put in them before hitting the red button...I'm disappointed to see covers that doesn't meet this craftmanship.
Especially when you see the stock pictures in ads and shit elsewhere...

[EPIC Outro]

I briefly thought the DOT cover was a symbolic sequel to The Astonishing. I saw the metallic hand holding the skull and was like, "I guess the NOMACS won," even though that wasn't really what the The Astonishing was about.

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

I briefly thought the DOT cover was a symbolic sequel to The Astonishing. I saw the metallic hand holding the skull and was like, "I guess the NOMACS won," even though that wasn't really what the The Astonishing was about.

 

thought the same thing to be Frank

[Madman Shepherd]

Still, when you watch I&W's cover, you link the heart to pull me under, the little girl to another day, etc...

There's on the nose like AVFTTOTW which is at the top of a mountain, and there's on the nose like I&W or even BC&SL where each song is represented. That's just too involved for me. I thought the concept was cool at first but when looking back, the covers didn't interest me when I had only just heard of the band and seen the art.

Now, if I saw DoT before I was a fan, I'd be like, "I gotta check these guys out!"

Maybe we should do a rank the album cover thread. 🤔

[The Great Ape]

There's pages and pages of stuff on this forum that annoys the band very much, first you have pages of unchecked JLB bashing in the tour thread, and now pages of Hugh bashing and people acting like the band don't have eyes when they pick out the art or something...

But sure, keep me on your watch list 

[hefdaddy42]

There's pages and pages of stuff on this forum that annoys the band very much, first you have pages of unchecked JLB bashing in the tour thread, and now pages of Hugh bashing and people acting like the band don't have eyes when they pick out the art or something...

But sure, keep me on your watch list 

Thanks, we will.

BTW, thanks for telling us what the band likes or doesn't like, as if we don't have direct lines to them, and JP or any of the rest can't just communicate that info directly to us if they want.

[Ben_Jamin]

DoT was ok but obvious and seemed completely unrelated to the content. Was there a song on it about robots outliving humans?

I compare it to be a sort of meaning tied to the name of the album, Distance Over Time.

The concept of the art shows us a robot hand  holding a human skull. If we consider the idea of transhumanism, or robots taking over humans. It's a neat concept that I think is neatly related to a meaning of Distance Over Time.

What does that phrase Distance Over Time mean to you?

[The Letter M]

What does that phrase Distance Over Time mean to you?

Speed.

-Marc.

[Cool Chris]

What does that phrase Distance Over Time mean to you?

Speed.

-Marc.

[The Letter M]

What does that phrase Distance Over Time mean to you?

Speed.

-Marc.

I was thinking more along the lines of...


-Marc.

[pg1067]

[The Great Ape]

DoT was ok but obvious and seemed completely unrelated to the content. Was there a song on it about robots outliving humans?

I compare it to be a sort of meaning tied to the name of the album, Distance Over Time.

The concept of the art shows us a robot hand  holding a human skull. If we consider the idea of transhumanism, or robots taking over humans. It's a neat concept that I think is neatly related to a meaning of Distance Over Time.

What does that phrase Distance Over Time mean to you?

I find the concept of "Distance Over Time" in the context of this album to be a profound metaphor for the journey of self-discovery and societal progress. The image of a robot hand holding a human skull symbolizes the evolving relationship between humanity and technology, hinting at the potential future where artificial intelligence and transhumanism may alter the very essence of what it means to be human.

For me, "Distance Over Time" encapsulates the passage of time and the vast distance we've traveled as a society in terms of acceptance and understanding of different identities and technologies. It reflects the progress we've made in embracing diversity, including my own journey as a gay man. The juxtaposition of the robot hand and human skull underscores the ongoing struggle for identity and the ever-changing nature of our society.

Furthermore, I interpret the phrase as an exploration of the evolution of relationships and connections, be they between humans or between humans and machines. The concept of transhumanism and the potential merging of man and machine raises questions about how our relationships may change and how we adapt to the shifting dynamics in an ever-evolving world.

[Stadler]

That's not a bad take at all. 

[bosk1]

DoT was ok but obvious and seemed completely unrelated to the content. Was there a song on it about robots outliving humans?

I compare it to be a sort of meaning tied to the name of the album, Distance Over Time.

The concept of the art shows us a robot hand  holding a human skull. If we consider the idea of transhumanism, or robots taking over humans. It's a neat concept that I think is neatly related to a meaning of Distance Over Time.

What does that phrase Distance Over Time mean to you?

I find the concept of "Distance Over Time" in the context of this album to be a profound metaphor for the journey of self-discovery and societal progress. The image of a robot hand holding a human skull symbolizes the evolving relationship between humanity and technology, hinting at the potential future where artificial intelligence and transhumanism may alter the very essence of what it means to be human.

For me, "Distance Over Time" encapsulates the passage of time and the vast distance we've traveled as a society in terms of acceptance and understanding of different identities and technologies. It reflects the progress we've made in embracing diversity, including my own journey as a gay man. The juxtaposition of the robot hand and human skull underscores the ongoing struggle for identity and the ever-changing nature of our society.

Furthermore, I interpret the phrase as an exploration of the evolution of relationships and connections, be they between humans or between humans and machines. The concept of transhumanism and the potential merging of man and machine raises questions about how our relationships may change and how we adapt to the shifting dynamics in an ever-evolving world.

Both of those are really cool takes.  Unfortunately, if I had to guess, I would guess that the band hadn't thought about it quite that deeply though.  Reminds me of a conversation I had with JP a few years ago where something hit me about a song, and I went on about how brilliant the multilayered meaning and symbolism were.  His response was along the lines of, "That's amazing!  In retrospect, I really wish I had thought of that when I was writing those lyrics." 

[Ben_Jamin]

DoT was ok but obvious and seemed completely unrelated to the content. Was there a song on it about robots outliving humans?

I compare it to be a sort of meaning tied to the name of the album, Distance Over Time.

The concept of the art shows us a robot hand  holding a human skull. If we consider the idea of transhumanism, or robots taking over humans. It's a neat concept that I think is neatly related to a meaning of Distance Over Time.

What does that phrase Distance Over Time mean to you?

I find the concept of "Distance Over Time" in the context of this album to be a profound metaphor for the journey of self-discovery and societal progress. The image of a robot hand holding a human skull symbolizes the evolving relationship between humanity and technology, hinting at the potential future where artificial intelligence and transhumanism may alter the very essence of what it means to be human.

For me, "Distance Over Time" encapsulates the passage of time and the vast distance we've traveled as a society in terms of acceptance and understanding of different identities and technologies. It reflects the progress we've made in embracing diversity, including my own journey as a gay man. The juxtaposition of the robot hand and human skull underscores the ongoing struggle for identity and the ever-changing nature of our society.

Furthermore, I interpret the phrase as an exploration of the evolution of relationships and connections, be they between humans or between humans and machines. The concept of transhumanism and the potential merging of man and machine raises questions about how our relationships may change and how we adapt to the shifting dynamics in an ever-evolving world.

Both of those are really cool takes.  Unfortunately, if I had to guess, I would guess that the band hadn't thought about it quite that deeply though.  Reminds me of a conversation I had with JP a few years ago where something hit me about a song, and I went on about how brilliant the multilayered meaning and symbolism were.  His response was along the lines of, "That's amazing!  In retrospect, I really wish I had thought of that when I was writing those lyrics." 

This is why I feel the concept of the album art has nothing to do with the music or the lyrics. This is what Hugh interpreted and came up with in regards to the title "Distance Over Time ".

[Trav86]

I think someone mentioned that his original idea was to put the d/t that I think ended up on the back, as the cover. Similar to what he created for Rush on the artwork for Grace Under Pressure p/g.

When the band, or JP, didn’t like that I imagined he just looked for a cool stock photo. He was probably like “how about this?” And JP said “yeah, cool”.

[Max Kuehnau]

OK. Ending derailment now. Jordan is currently recording his next solo album. Once he finishes that, my guess is studio time for DT16 will begin. More as and whenever it happens.

[gzarruk]

OK. Ending derailment now. Jordan is currently recording his next solo album. Once he finishes that, my guess is studio time for DT16 will begin. More as and whenever it happens.

IIRC, he recorded his latest (Wired for Madness) simultaneously with DOT, so it's possible he puts this one on hold while working with DT or even both at the same time.

[nobloodyname]

Well, there is some new confirmed info about DT16

DT's 16th album will see the return of MP.

[Max Kuehnau]

My time with DT has been called (again.) Good night everyone. The thread will not be continued.