DT16 Timeline Thread - MP finished recording drum parts, recording continues

[nobloodyname]

Yeah. There are some posters here who make MP sound like a novice drummer who'd have trouble with any ACDC song.

[Zantera]

Rage quitting over MP coming back to me would be as bizarre as rage quitting if Metallica got Jason Newsted back or something. If you like Mangini thats great, even if you prefer him to MP thats fine but they wrote all their classic albums with MP in the band and it just seems bizarre that him coming back would be the straw that broke the camels back for some. 

[Wim Kruithof]

Well, it's about reincarnation, so characters dying is basically just hitting the "reset" button for the next round.  I'm sure we will find out that Nicholas was actually reincarnated as Faythe, and Victoria was reincarnated as Gabriel, and so on, and so The Astonishing actually was Metropolis pt. 3, and DT16 being Metropolis pt. 4, it takes place a hundred years after that.

You've got me incredibly curious about how this storyline will unfold.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

I'm usually not the kind of person who has specific hopes and expectations for things, but in this case, I do kind of hope that they don't just do a "Let's cover all our bases and remind people what DT with MP sounds like" album. I'm sure it would be good, great even, but I think there's a lot of potential here to do something truly special as long they're willing to get creative. For example, MP has played in a lot of bands with a variety of different styles over the past 13 years... What of that can he bring to DT? Just a thought.

[Samsara]

As a fan, I'm in a weird spot with the next DT album.

I really loved both Distance Over Time and A View From the Top of the World. In my mind, they were the best Dream Theater albums since Train of Thought. I really didn't care for the last several with MP. I felt songs were bloated for the sake of being bloated. (For example, I preferred an edited version of "Rite of Passage" over the full version.)

That said, however, I very much prefer MP over MM in a live context. There was this vibe with MP that MM just didn't have on the stage. Don't think I'm saying anything negative about MM's playing. I'm not. But DT's...character changed when MP left, and it wasn't for the better, IMO.

So here we are, all these years later, and MP is now back where he belongs. I'm excited for a new DT record with him, but a also a bit apprehensive. My hope is, they go into the studio, like they did for Distance Over Time and A View From the Top of the World, write together, and importantly, self-edit as they have been.

2024 and 2025 should be pretty cool as a DT fan. 25th anniversary of Scenes, 30th for Awake (in 2024), a new record, and MP behind the kit for the band's 40th anniversary. Going to be fun.

[Kyo]

I'm curious... those of you who have said your excitement for a new DT album has diminished now MP is back in the fold... why? Any personal issues one may have with Mike, fine. But his drumming ability is fantastic (stylistically different to MM, admittedly) and the only gripes I ever recall seeing regularly here are with his vocals, which noone rightly knows will make an appearance on the new album. What is it about the announcement of his return that puts you off?

Okay, I'll bite. First of all, to me it felt like DT had really hit their stride with their last album. Mangini's talent finally unleashed, the songs no longer as short as before but without the bloat of 2002-2009, it all seemed to be going in a very good direction. So to have that development interrupted would be problematic in any case.

Those who aren't merely nostalgic about the Portnoy years remember that the band's output had been getting increasingly patchy after Scenes from a Memory. At first more subtly, but on the last two albums it had become very obvious that they were rushing the creative process, throwing big, increasingly bloated pieces together quickly, casually accepting weird mismatches between musical and lyrical content ("Everyone survived, roar!"). Then there was the thing with Mike generously injecting elements borrowed from his favorite band of the month, which was drawing a lot of criticism (here's the Muse section, here's the mellow Opeth section, here's some blast beats and growls...). His increasingly personal and sometimes not too artful lyrics were also problematic, even affecting live setlists (e.g., The Best of Times never getting played because it was deemed too personal). And where we used to expect fresh, creative drumming, Mike's contributions were feeling more and more like his usual "bag of tricks" being applied to any new song. So it shouldn't be too much of a mystery why some people are less than excited by the prospect of the band continuing where it left off in 2010.

Now, obviously Mike was burnt out at the time and with 13 years and a lot of very obvious personal development having happened since, things will quite likely be a bit different this time around. I sure hope that will happen and that the drive to show people that the change was a good thing, a necessary step to bring back something that's been missing, will lead to a strong album. This is what happened every previous time they felt they had something to prove, so it will be interesting to see how this plays out.

[Dedalus]

I'm curious... those of you who have said your excitement for a new DT album has diminished now MP is back in the fold... why? Any personal issues one may have with Mike, fine. But his drumming ability is fantastic (stylistically different to MM, admittedly) and the only gripes I ever recall seeing regularly here are with his vocals, which noone rightly knows will make an appearance on the new album. What is it about the announcement of his return that puts you off?

Okay, I'll bite. First of all, to me it felt like DT had really hit their stride with their last album. Mangini's talent finally unleashed, the songs no longer as short as before but without the bloat of 2002-2009, it all seemed to be going in a very good direction. So to have that development interrupted would be problematic in any case.

Those who aren't merely nostalgic about the Portnoy years remember that the band's output had been getting increasingly patchy after Scenes from a Memory. At first more subtly, but on the last two albums it had become very obvious that they were rushing the creative process, throwing big, increasingly bloated pieces together quickly, casually accepting weird mismatches between musical and lyrical content ("Everyone survived, roar!"). Then there was the thing with Mike generously injecting elements borrowed from his favorite band of the month, which was drawing a lot of criticism (here's the Muse section, here's the mellow Opeth section, here's some blast beats and growls...). His increasingly personal and sometimes not too artful lyrics were also problematic, even affecting live setlists (e.g., The Best of Times never getting played because it was deemed too personal). And where we used to expect fresh, creative drumming, Mike's contributions were feeling more and more like his usual "bag of tricks" being applied to any new song. So it shouldn't be too much of a mystery why some people are less than excited by the prospect of the band continuing where it left off in 2010.

Now, obviously Mike was burnt out at the time and with 13 years and a lot of very obvious personal development having happened since, things will quite likely be a bit different this time around. I sure hope that will happen and that the drive to show people that the change was a good thing, a necessary step to bring back something that's been missing, will lead to a strong album. This is what happened every previous time they felt they had something to prove, so it will be interesting to see how this plays out.

Well said.

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

I'm curious... those of you who have said your excitement for a new DT album has diminished now MP is back in the fold... why? Any personal issues one may have with Mike, fine. But his drumming ability is fantastic (stylistically different to MM, admittedly) and the only gripes I ever recall seeing regularly here are with his vocals, which noone rightly knows will make an appearance on the new album. What is it about the announcement of his return that puts you off?

Okay, I'll bite. First of all, to me it felt like DT had really hit their stride with their last album. Mangini's talent finally unleashed, the songs no longer as short as before but without the bloat of 2002-2009, it all seemed to be going in a very good direction. So to have that development interrupted would be problematic in any case.

Those who aren't merely nostalgic about the Portnoy years remember that the band's output had been getting increasingly patchy after Scenes from a Memory. At first more subtly, but on the last two albums it had become very obvious that they were rushing the creative process, throwing big, increasingly bloated pieces together quickly, casually accepting weird mismatches between musical and lyrical content ("Everyone survived, roar!"). Then there was the thing with Mike generously injecting elements borrowed from his favorite band of the month, which was drawing a lot of criticism (here's the Muse section, here's the mellow Opeth section, here's some blast beats and growls...). His increasingly personal and sometimes not too artful lyrics were also problematic, even affecting live setlists (e.g., The Best of Times never getting played because it was deemed too personal). And where we used to expect fresh, creative drumming, Mike's contributions were feeling more and more like his usual "bag of tricks" being applied to any new song. So it shouldn't be too much of a mystery why some people are less than excited by the prospect of the band continuing where it left off in 2010.

Now, obviously Mike was burnt out at the time and with 13 years and a lot of very obvious personal development having happened since, things will quite likely be a bit different this time around. I sure hope that will happen and that the drive to show people that the change was a good thing, a necessary step to bring back something that's been missing, will lead to a strong album. This is what happened every previous time they felt they had something to prove, so it will be interesting to see how this plays out.

well said, and welcome to DTF!

[hefdaddy42]

I'm curious... those of you who have said your excitement for a new DT album has diminished now MP is back in the fold... why? Any personal issues one may have with Mike, fine. But his drumming ability is fantastic (stylistically different to MM, admittedly) and the only gripes I ever recall seeing regularly here are with his vocals, which noone rightly knows will make an appearance on the new album. What is it about the announcement of his return that puts you off?

Okay, I'll bite. First of all, to me it felt like DT had really hit their stride with their last album. Mangini's talent finally unleashed, the songs no longer as short as before but without the bloat of 2002-2009, it all seemed to be going in a very good direction. So to have that development interrupted would be problematic in any case.

Those who aren't merely nostalgic about the Portnoy years remember that the band's output had been getting increasingly patchy after Scenes from a Memory. At first more subtly, but on the last two albums it had become very obvious that they were rushing the creative process, throwing big, increasingly bloated pieces together quickly, casually accepting weird mismatches between musical and lyrical content ("Everyone survived, roar!"). Then there was the thing with Mike generously injecting elements borrowed from his favorite band of the month, which was drawing a lot of criticism (here's the Muse section, here's the mellow Opeth section, here's some blast beats and growls...). His increasingly personal and sometimes not too artful lyrics were also problematic, even affecting live setlists (e.g., The Best of Times never getting played because it was deemed too personal). And where we used to expect fresh, creative drumming, Mike's contributions were feeling more and more like his usual "bag of tricks" being applied to any new song. So it shouldn't be too much of a mystery why some people are less than excited by the prospect of the band continuing where it left off in 2010.

Now, obviously Mike was burnt out at the time and with 13 years and a lot of very obvious personal development having happened since, things will quite likely be a bit different this time around. I sure hope that will happen and that the drive to show people that the change was a good thing, a necessary step to bring back something that's been missing, will lead to a strong album. This is what happened every previous time they felt they had something to prove, so it will be interesting to see how this plays out.

well said, and welcome to DTF!

You've been here 2 weeks, and you are welcoming to DTF someone who joined in 2008.  Nice.

lol

[James Mypetgiress]

I'm curious... those of you who have said your excitement for a new DT album has diminished now MP is back in the fold... why? Any personal issues one may have with Mike, fine. But his drumming ability is fantastic (stylistically different to MM, admittedly) and the only gripes I ever recall seeing regularly here are with his vocals, which noone rightly knows will make an appearance on the new album. What is it about the announcement of his return that puts you off?

Okay, I'll bite. First of all, to me it felt like DT had really hit their stride with their last album. Mangini's talent finally unleashed, the songs no longer as short as before but without the bloat of 2002-2009, it all seemed to be going in a very good direction. So to have that development interrupted would be problematic in any case.

Those who aren't merely nostalgic about the Portnoy years remember that the band's output had been getting increasingly patchy after Scenes from a Memory. At first more subtly, but on the last two albums it had become very obvious that they were rushing the creative process, throwing big, increasingly bloated pieces together quickly, casually accepting weird mismatches between musical and lyrical content ("Everyone survived, roar!"). Then there was the thing with Mike generously injecting elements borrowed from his favorite band of the month, which was drawing a lot of criticism (here's the Muse section, here's the mellow Opeth section, here's some blast beats and growls...). His increasingly personal and sometimes not too artful lyrics were also problematic, even affecting live setlists (e.g., The Best of Times never getting played because it was deemed too personal). And where we used to expect fresh, creative drumming, Mike's contributions were feeling more and more like his usual "bag of tricks" being applied to any new song. So it shouldn't be too much of a mystery why some people are less than excited by the prospect of the band continuing where it left off in 2010.

Now, obviously Mike was burnt out at the time and with 13 years and a lot of very obvious personal development having happened since, things will quite likely be a bit different this time around. I sure hope that will happen and that the drive to show people that the change was a good thing, a necessary step to bring back something that's been missing, will lead to a strong album. This is what happened every previous time they felt they had something to prove, so it will be interesting to see how this plays out.

That is a very valid sentiment. I can't say I agree from a point of view of the longer songs from that time period being bloated. The epics from 8VM through BCSL are some of my favourite tracks by the band... although obviously that does all come down to personal taste. I can certainly understand the issues surrounding his personality with regards to things like not wanting to play Best of Times live, and the like. But I would be inclined to believe that he must have shown some change in strength of character for the guys to all want to make up with him like they have.

[Mosh]

Well, to put it bluntly, I was close to 0 interest in the next Dream Theater album. They really lost me with Distance Over Time and while I enjoyed A View From the Top of the World, it just didn't really connect with me on the level I'm used to with Dream Theater. I think I listened to the album twice. Seeing them twice on the tour didn't really do anything for that material with me either. I also am going to be realistic here and recognize that whether or not Portnoy is involved, the main output is going to come from Petrucci and Rudess.
 
That being said, Portnoy's return definitely has my interest piqued and this is now the most excited I've been for a DT album since DT12.

As others have mentioned throughout the forum, Dream Theater has turned out some of their best work whenever there has been a major lineup change. I&W, SFAM, and ADTOE all saw the band giving their all. It has felt like going through the motions since The Astonishing and they are going to be motivated to live up to the expectations of the "classic" DT lineup.

But one thing I haven't seen mentioned as much is the fact that as somebody who has been out of the band for 13 years, Portnoy is going to come in with a bit of a fresh perspective on where things should go creatively. I've seen talk about worry or excitement around the next album picking up where BC&SL left off but that seems to miss the forest for the trees a little bit. If you think about what Portnoy has been up to since 2010, he was in Avenged Sevenfold for a second, he had Adrenaline Mob which was along the same lines, but then there was stuff like Flying Colors and all those Neal Morse albums. Sons of Apollo was in the Dream Theater "lane" but those musicians brought a very different style to the band. Winery Dogs is its own thing. Along similar lines, I'm not sure how actually engaged he was with Dream Theater's new music (I know he had some negative stuff to say about ADTOE and The Astonishing but I'm not sure how close he was actually following them), but needless to say he wasn't involved in the material and therefore isn't really going to be influenced by the direction they've gone in since he left.

IMO one of the downfalls of Mangini's time in the band was that he didn't really get a chance to serve as a creative force. ADTOE was written largely without his involvement and then not long after The Astonishing was mostly a Petrucci/Rudess project. I think it would actually benefit Petrucci/Rudess immensely to have a strong creative voice who is coming at things from a different perspective than someone who has been in the band for as long as they have.

[Trav86]

I'm curious... those of you who have said your excitement for a new DT album has diminished now MP is back in the fold... why? Any personal issues one may have with Mike, fine. But his drumming ability is fantastic (stylistically different to MM, admittedly) and the only gripes I ever recall seeing regularly here are with his vocals, which noone rightly knows will make an appearance on the new album. What is it about the announcement of his return that puts you off?

Okay, I'll bite. First of all, to me it felt like DT had really hit their stride with their last album. Mangini's talent finally unleashed, the songs no longer as short as before but without the bloat of 2002-2009, it all seemed to be going in a very good direction. So to have that development interrupted would be problematic in any case.

Those who aren't merely nostalgic about the Portnoy years remember that the band's output had been getting increasingly patchy after Scenes from a Memory. At first more subtly, but on the last two albums it had become very obvious that they were rushing the creative process, throwing big, increasingly bloated pieces together quickly, casually accepting weird mismatches between musical and lyrical content ("Everyone survived, roar!"). Then there was the thing with Mike generously injecting elements borrowed from his favorite band of the month, which was drawing a lot of criticism (here's the Muse section, here's the mellow Opeth section, here's some blast beats and growls...). His increasingly personal and sometimes not too artful lyrics were also problematic, even affecting live setlists (e.g., The Best of Times never getting played because it was deemed too personal). And where we used to expect fresh, creative drumming, Mike's contributions were feeling more and more like his usual "bag of tricks" being applied to any new song. So it shouldn't be too much of a mystery why some people are less than excited by the prospect of the band continuing where it left off in 2010.

Now, obviously Mike was burnt out at the time and with 13 years and a lot of very obvious personal development having happened since, things will quite likely be a bit different this time around. I sure hope that will happen and that the drive to show people that the change was a good thing, a necessary step to bring back something that's been missing, will lead to a strong album. This is what happened every previous time they felt they had something to prove, so it will be interesting to see how this plays out.

well said, and welcome to DTF!

You've been here 2 weeks, and you are welcoming to DTF someone who joined in 2008.  Nice.

lol

[Wim Kruithof]

've Had the weirdest dream last night.

Dream Theater released an EP, Metallika where-in Portnoy would once again pay a tribute to Lars Ulrich. Even the cover was awesome, with a wonderfull tracklist;

- The Four Horsemen
- From Whom the Bell Tolls
- Fade to Black
- Master of Puppets
- Orion
- Damage Inc.
- One
- To Live Is to Die
- The Unforgiven perfectly weaved-in trilogy

Some might say with a beautiful wife, four kids and a dynamic job... I would have other things on my mind, instead of a drummer-seat change on the other side of the wide ocean. But I can't seem to wrap it up and it keeps on overwhelming me.

[LKap13]

As a fan, I'm in a weird spot with the next DT album.

I really loved both Distance Over Time and A View From the Top of the World. In my mind, they were the best Dream Theater albums since Train of Thought. I really didn't care for the last several with MP. I felt songs were bloated for the sake of being bloated. (For example, I preferred an edited version of "Rite of Passage" over the full version.)

That said, however, I very much prefer MP over MM in a live context. There was this vibe with MP that MM just didn't have on the stage. Don't think I'm saying anything negative about MM's playing. I'm not. But DT's...character changed when MP left, and it wasn't for the better, IMO.

So here we are, all these years later, and MP is now back where he belongs. I'm excited for a new DT record with him, but a also a bit apprehensive. My hope is, they go into the studio, like they did for Distance Over Time and A View From the Top of the World, write together, and importantly, self-edit as they have been.

2024 and 2025 should be pretty cool as a DT fan. 25th anniversary of Scenes, 30th for Awake (in 2024), a new record, and MP behind the kit for the band's 40th anniversary. Going to be fun.

Totally agree

[ytserush]

They decided to turn a 20 minutes demo into a full album, which has a storyline (kinda stolen from the Dead Again movie) where every character died except for the reincarnated villain.

What Metropolis part 3 would be even about?

Well, it's about reincarnation, so characters dying is basically just hitting the "reset" button for the next round.  I'm sure we will find out that Nicholas was actually reincarnated as Faythe, and Victoria was reincarnated as Gabriel, and so on, and so The Astonishing actually was Metropolis pt. 3, and DT16 being Metropolis pt. 4, it takes place a hundred years after that.

Haha, I was about to say the next album will be The Astonishing Part 2, then I read your post and realized you basically said the same thing.

I would love Astonishing Part II. This time they could do it right.

[ytserush]

I'm curious... those of you who have said your excitement for a new DT album has diminished now MP is back in the fold... why? Any personal issues one may have with Mike, fine. But his drumming ability is fantastic (stylistically different to MM, admittedly) and the only gripes I ever recall seeing regularly here are with his vocals, which noone rightly knows will make an appearance on the new album. What is it about the announcement of his return that puts you off?

Don't know if this weird or not but my view on it doesn't really change with either Mike.  My only thought is that we might be closer to the end than I was anticipating. Not sure how I feel about that.

[ytserush]

Rage quitting over MP coming back to me would be as bizarre as rage quitting if Metallica got Jason Newsted back or something. If you like Mangini thats great, even if you prefer him to MP thats fine but they wrote all their classic albums with MP in the band and it just seems bizarre that him coming back would be the straw that broke the camels back for some. 

People quit when Mike left and others when he came back.

[ytserush]

I'm curious... those of you who have said your excitement for a new DT album has diminished now MP is back in the fold... why? Any personal issues one may have with Mike, fine. But his drumming ability is fantastic (stylistically different to MM, admittedly) and the only gripes I ever recall seeing regularly here are with his vocals, which noone rightly knows will make an appearance on the new album. What is it about the announcement of his return that puts you off?

Okay, I'll bite. First of all, to me it felt like DT had really hit their stride with their last album. Mangini's talent finally unleashed, the songs no longer as short as before but without the bloat of 2002-2009, it all seemed to be going in a very good direction. So to have that development interrupted would be problematic in any case.

Those who aren't merely nostalgic about the Portnoy years remember that the band's output had been getting increasingly patchy after Scenes from a Memory. At first more subtly, but on the last two albums it had become very obvious that they were rushing the creative process, throwing big, increasingly bloated pieces together quickly, casually accepting weird mismatches between musical and lyrical content ("Everyone survived, roar!"). Then there was the thing with Mike generously injecting elements borrowed from his favorite band of the month, which was drawing a lot of criticism (here's the Muse section, here's the mellow Opeth section, here's some blast beats and growls...). His increasingly personal and sometimes not too artful lyrics were also problematic, even affecting live setlists (e.g., The Best of Times never getting played because it was deemed too personal). And where we used to expect fresh, creative drumming, Mike's contributions were feeling more and more like his usual "bag of tricks" being applied to any new song. So it shouldn't be too much of a mystery why some people are less than excited by the prospect of the band continuing where it left off in 2010.

Now, obviously Mike was burnt out at the time and with 13 years and a lot of very obvious personal development having happened since, things will quite likely be a bit different this time around. I sure hope that will happen and that the drive to show people that the change was a good thing, a necessary step to bring back something that's been missing, will lead to a strong album. This is what happened every previous time they felt they had something to prove, so it will be interesting to see how this plays out.

That's a fantastic analysis.

[nikatapi]

I'm curious... those of you who have said your excitement for a new DT album has diminished now MP is back in the fold... why? Any personal issues one may have with Mike, fine. But his drumming ability is fantastic (stylistically different to MM, admittedly) and the only gripes I ever recall seeing regularly here are with his vocals, which noone rightly knows will make an appearance on the new album. What is it about the announcement of his return that puts you off?

Okay, I'll bite. First of all, to me it felt like DT had really hit their stride with their last album. Mangini's talent finally unleashed, the songs no longer as short as before but without the bloat of 2002-2009, it all seemed to be going in a very good direction. So to have that development interrupted would be problematic in any case.

Those who aren't merely nostalgic about the Portnoy years remember that the band's output had been getting increasingly patchy after Scenes from a Memory. At first more subtly, but on the last two albums it had become very obvious that they were rushing the creative process, throwing big, increasingly bloated pieces together quickly, casually accepting weird mismatches between musical and lyrical content ("Everyone survived, roar!"). Then there was the thing with Mike generously injecting elements borrowed from his favorite band of the month, which was drawing a lot of criticism (here's the Muse section, here's the mellow Opeth section, here's some blast beats and growls...). His increasingly personal and sometimes not too artful lyrics were also problematic, even affecting live setlists (e.g., The Best of Times never getting played because it was deemed too personal). And where we used to expect fresh, creative drumming, Mike's contributions were feeling more and more like his usual "bag of tricks" being applied to any new song. So it shouldn't be too much of a mystery why some people are less than excited by the prospect of the band continuing where it left off in 2010.

Now, obviously Mike was burnt out at the time and with 13 years and a lot of very obvious personal development having happened since, things will quite likely be a bit different this time around. I sure hope that will happen and that the drive to show people that the change was a good thing, a necessary step to bring back something that's been missing, will lead to a strong album. This is what happened every previous time they felt they had something to prove, so it will be interesting to see how this plays out.

I agree 100% on every point you have touched with your post.

[IgnotusPerIgnotium]

Those who aren't merely nostalgic about the Portnoy years remember that the band's output had been getting increasingly patchy after Scenes from a Memory. At first more subtly, but on the last two albums it had become very obvious that they were rushing the creative process, throwing big, increasingly bloated pieces together quickly, casually accepting weird mismatches between musical and lyrical content ("Everyone survived, roar!"). Then there was the thing with Mike generously injecting elements borrowed from his favorite band of the month, which was drawing a lot of criticism (here's the Muse section, here's the mellow Opeth section, here's some blast beats and growls...). His increasingly personal and sometimes not too artful lyrics were also problematic, even affecting live setlists (e.g., The Best of Times never getting played because it was deemed too personal). And where we used to expect fresh, creative drumming, Mike's contributions were feeling more and more like his usual "bag of tricks" being applied to any new song. So it shouldn't be too much of a mystery why some people are less than excited by the prospect of the band continuing where it left off in 2010.

There was no rush. If their creative output was at a certain fast pace but for some, the songs that were made required more polishing, it's not the band's fault neither MP's.
The argument that MP was injecting elements from his recent musical tastes then is really something that it's brought retrospective in regards of comparing years of recordings.
Some didn't liked it but some did. Clearly the band chose to bring him back not to innovate but to inspire them.

[TheLordOfTheStrings]

I really hope we get some behind the scenes footage from the making of this album. I’ve really been wanting a making of doc for years. Especially since they have their own studio. I wonder if MP will encourage that kind of thing as he did in the past.

[Wim Kruithof]

I really hope we get some behind the scenes footage from the making of this album. I’ve really been wanting a making of doc for years. Especially since they have their own studio. I wonder if MP will encourage that kind of thing as he did in the past.

I follow you, been missing a docu like that as well. But the interviews around A View were also very interesting and gave a nice insight in the 'how and when's' of the album. But I would love a very long docu.

[evilasiojr]

That's some of my favorite content as well, hope they do it too!! But to be fair, there's a pretty cool 40 min doc about A View, Digging for a Spark.

[Wim Kruithof]

That's some of my favorite content as well, hope they do it too!! But to be fair, there's a pretty cool 40 min doc about A View, Digging for a Spark.

Serious, didn't know that... will check it this very evening.

edit: Amazon I see, but I can't find the correct link.

[Ben_Jamin]

If we're talking about expectations, I would really enjoy if the music is in the same veins as Keys To The Imagination and The Way Things Fall

[Trav86]

That's some of my favorite content as well, hope they do it too!! But to be fair, there's a pretty cool 40 min doc about A View, Digging for a Spark.

Serious, didn't know that... will check it this very evening.

edit: Amazon I see, but I can't find the correct link.

They spend more time talking about building the studio then they do talking about the album.

[Wim Kruithof]

I see Trav, then there's not that much to miss after all. Since they drop the Portnoy-bomb, it's almost pure torture to wait months and months for a new album.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

I'm curious... those of you who have said your excitement for a new DT album has diminished now MP is back in the fold... why? Any personal issues one may have with Mike, fine. But his drumming ability is fantastic (stylistically different to MM, admittedly) and the only gripes I ever recall seeing regularly here are with his vocals, which noone rightly knows will make an appearance on the new album. What is it about the announcement of his return that puts you off?

Okay, I'll bite. First of all, to me it felt like DT had really hit their stride with their last album. Mangini's talent finally unleashed, the songs no longer as short as before but without the bloat of 2002-2009, it all seemed to be going in a very good direction. So to have that development interrupted would be problematic in any case.

Those who aren't merely nostalgic about the Portnoy years remember that the band's output had been getting increasingly patchy after Scenes from a Memory. At first more subtly, but on the last two albums it had become very obvious that they were rushing the creative process, throwing big, increasingly bloated pieces together quickly, casually accepting weird mismatches between musical and lyrical content ("Everyone survived, roar!"). Then there was the thing with Mike generously injecting elements borrowed from his favorite band of the month, which was drawing a lot of criticism (here's the Muse section, here's the mellow Opeth section, here's some blast beats and growls...). His increasingly personal and sometimes not too artful lyrics were also problematic, even affecting live setlists (e.g., The Best of Times never getting played because it was deemed too personal). And where we used to expect fresh, creative drumming, Mike's contributions were feeling more and more like his usual "bag of tricks" being applied to any new song. So it shouldn't be too much of a mystery why some people are less than excited by the prospect of the band continuing where it left off in 2010.

Now, obviously Mike was burnt out at the time and with 13 years and a lot of very obvious personal development having happened since, things will quite likely be a bit different this time around. I sure hope that will happen and that the drive to show people that the change was a good thing, a necessary step to bring back something that's been missing, will lead to a strong album. This is what happened every previous time they felt they had something to prove, so it will be interesting to see how this plays out.

This is one of the best posts I have ever read.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

I'm curious... those of you who have said your excitement for a new DT album has diminished now MP is back in the fold... why? Any personal issues one may have with Mike, fine. But his drumming ability is fantastic (stylistically different to MM, admittedly) and the only gripes I ever recall seeing regularly here are with his vocals, which noone rightly knows will make an appearance on the new album. What is it about the announcement of his return that puts you off?

The poster above said almost everything I feel about it but here are a few more of my own ideas and opinions.

After Six Degrees, the band output had declined significantly. To be fair, Six Degrees is a tough album to top but I think the last MP albums were mediocre at best despite having good songs here and there. Kyo stated some issues with those albums and what he said took the words out of my mouth. I won't repeat anything.

Fast forward to the MM albums. I think the drums got a major major MAJOR upgrade with Mangini. MP is a great drummer but he is not a technical drummer and thus for the first time on ADTOE we heard Dream Theater with someone who is not only a great musician (like MP is) but ALSO a technical player just like JP, JR and JM are. Technicality isn't everything in music but it is hard to say it isn't very important to Dream Theater. It's such a critical part of the band's sound and identity. Thus with the addition of MM, it sounded like we went from a very good reliable, if not increasingly predictable, car to a supercharged F1 race car. The other important part to me is that what MM made sense. It wasn't just technique to be flashy. The drumming was technical AND made sense in the music that the band wrote. The result was better output in the MM era vs. the last 4 MP albums.

So now that MM is gone, you can imagine that I am not particularly excited to hear the drums lose the very technical element. This isn't a Chicago blues band or a funk band. My fear is that MP is just going to play more or less what he played before he left. Kyo alluded to a 'bag of tricks' and I think that encapsulates my feeling about it. I hope I am wrong but I have followed MP since he left DT and I am not hearing many new ideas or exploration of musical concepts. That's fine, but it leads me to believe the drumming is going to go backwards chronologically to a period that I wasn't very excited by.

Obviously to some people, the return of MP is very personally inspiring and uplifting. I don't really take an opinion on that. They're nice guys but their friendships don't drive me to buy their music. I will support DT16 but if this is the final chapter in the band's story it doesn't feel like a particularly exciting musical end. I hope I am wrong. That's how I feel. I am not overly optimistic about the drummer change but like Mike Mangini, I understand Dream Theater's decision to go back to Mike Portnoy at this time.

[Trav86]

Mangini is great drummer, but saying he brought a “major upgrade” to the drums just says that you and I (well you and a lot of people) want two completely different things from the drums.

[nobloodyname]

Portnoy's not a 'technical' drummer? I don't get this at all. Again, people are making it sound like he's drumming at the level of a pub band covering AC/DC.

[Mladen]

People forget that, back in the 90s, Portnoy was one of the most technical drummers in metal. Nowadays there's all sorts of kids that could play circles around him technically, but that's not the point. He's got nothing to prove and doesn't need to compete with the new generation of prog or metal drummers. He's Mike Portnoy.

[James Mypetgiress]

Yeah, I understood a lot of what KYO said, but this doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. MP is still an exceptionally gifted drummer. He has his style, like all drummers do. But that's not a bad thing. Every musician has a sound they either find easier, or naturally drift towards. I also absolutely cannot see the argument that ADTOE showcased very technical drumming... when MM had almost no input on the actual drum parts. What was played on that album would surely, technically, be JP's style of (programmed) drumming which MM then played in-studio? To me, most of your point just comes down to personal preference... which is fine, but I can't see the idea that MP isn't a technical drummer.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

Mangini is great drummer, but saying he brought a “major upgrade” to the drums just says that you and I (well you and a lot of people) want two completely different things from the drums.

I just want someone to play the right things at the right time. MP did a hell of a lot of good things but for me personally, things got a little stale in the drum chair by the time we got to BCSL.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

Portnoy's not a 'technical' drummer? I don't get this at all. Again, people are making it sound like he's drumming at the level of a pub band covering AC/DC.

He isn't really, no. I think he would be the first to admit that. It doesn't mean he isn't a great player; he is. There is a huge range of styles and types in between a player like Mangini and the guy at the pub. It's not that if you aren't technical you are a nobody. It is sort of like how just because David Gilmour or Slash can't play like John Petrucci does not mean at all they aren't great. What's more is I bet if you asked the average person or even the average guitar player (assuming they knew who JP was), they would say something like JP doesn't play with enough 'feel' to be as good as DG or Slash. I am not a drummer but the drummers I have talked to about this have all said basically the same thing even if they prefer the MP era.

What I meant to say was that I came to prefer the more technical quality that MM brought to the band in 2011. Every successive album aside from the Astonishing solidified my view as his abilities brought out different things DT's music. I think the Alien or Enemy Inside is really cool stuff. There are many many others but we got a world of extra possibilities with MM. After MP started Flying Colors and Winery Dogs I started hearing him as a drummer whose style was more tuned into those type of bands. But important to say, I do not think MP is like the guy at the bar, or mediocre, or even unsuited to play in DT. I'm just not excited about losing what MM brought.

Another poster said something about MP being considered one of the most technical in the 90s. Mike Mangini and others from the audition were around in the 90s too so don't know who would have thought that (not doubting people did say it).