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Parasomnia Timeline Thread

Started by Max Kuehnau, August 02, 2023, 03:59:11 AM

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Ben_Jamin

I could see them touring with some warm-up shows in the summer. Releasing the album in August - October. Then touring in the fall/spring for the new album. In the summer/fall, tour for their 40th anniversary.

Stadler

Quote from: Awaken on February 26, 2024, 05:35:40 AM
Quote from: Mosh on February 25, 2024, 07:25:09 PM
I still continue to strongly believe that a summer tour followed by an album release is the only possibility that makes sense.

When the band did ADTOE, they did a small amount of setlist rotation before phasing it out entirely by DT12. I think we're going to see the inverse: the initial tour will be a static escape from the studio tour, then maybe we'll see some rotation slots for the full album tour before a big Evening With type deal with old school style rotating setlists.

1. announce the dates
2. take my money
3. repeat

The first shows back are going to be nuts, hoping to make as many stops as possible - rotation of sets or not.  Still a little surreal this is happening.

I'm on board with this.   I'm blessed that if they do this "local" I'll have multiple opportunities to catch them playing.  I don't care about growing pains and learning curves; that's what's going to make it special to me. 

gborland

Quote from: crystalstars17 on February 26, 2024, 07:53:52 AM
I mean what is the practical purpose of giving every city something different?

Keeping it exciting and unpredictable for the very many fans who don't want a cookie-cutter performance.

Quote
I personally love knowing what to expect when I buy tickets.

Why even bother going to the show, if you already know exactly what's going to happen?

Quote
Is it a ploy to sell more tickets? Because they feel that people who may have only bought one show will buy 3 or 4 in the hopes of getting a different show?

Yes! This is literally what used to happen in the good old days! So many people, myself included, would go to three or fours shows on each tour, and have a totally awesome time doing so. Latterly many people only went to one show, or even none at all because the shows were so boring and predictable. And the ticket sales suffered as a result.

Stadler

Quote from: crystalstars17 on February 26, 2024, 07:53:52 AM
Quote from: hefdaddy42 on February 26, 2024, 07:42:20 AM
Honestly, you should give it a chance before being so negative about it.  It's historically been their approach, and it made concerts individualized, and therefore more special (potentially), rather than "cookie cutter" and the same thing that every other city got.

Be that as it may, it's not simply a matter of "being so negative" as it is that I just don't agree with it. I mean what is the practical purpose of giving every city something different? I personally love knowing what to expect when I buy tickets. My husband and I love going online and seeing the expected setlist before going to (anyone's) show. It's exciting for us. I don't like not knowing, it seems arbitrary at best and at worst unfair. Is it a ploy to sell more tickets? Because they feel that people who may have only bought one show will buy 3 or 4 in the hopes of getting a different show? That's not even true because we've bought three shows with the same setlist before, so if we want to see them more than once and we can fit it into our schedule then we'll still go more than one time.

Editing to add that I am entirely ok with them rotating a couple of songs. But the moment I hear that the second half of the show is a cover of an album from some random band I don't even know, then... Do you hear that? That's the sound of my feet walking TF out.

And that's fine; I'm sure everyone has something that is something "they don't agree with".  It's now up to you to decide what you want to spend your money on.

I think, though, that some of the terms - "arbitrary", "unfair", the implication that it's a money grab - are really not universal.  What's "fair"?  For many, the setlist isn't the product; the band IS, whatever they play.  I'm someone who likes bands that keep it static - Kiss hasn't changed their setlist in 30 years - and bands that rotate - The Dead; I just got a live set of two consecutive shows, and there were 41 songs played (22 the first night, 19 the second) and NOT ONE SONG was duplicated.  NOT ONE.  For me, at this point it's not about what songs they play, but how much energy they bring, how engaged they are, etc.  If static setlists allow them to put on the best show they can - Kiss - I'm in.  If rotating setlists are how they avoid getting stale and keeping it fresh for that engagement, I'm in. 

I think the band long ago established themselves as "players".   The songs were a vehicle for them to PLAY, as opposed to say, a Bruce Springsteen, who is more about the SONGS and the moment those songs evoke (though, interestingly, he invokes a quasi-rotating setlist structure for his shows).

I'm not arguing with you (I'm actually agreeing with you in an odd way), but only pointing out that everyone has their "differentiator", or what will make them buy.  I personally LIKE the idea of world-class players flying by the seat of their pants.  I pay to see that.  But honestly, I'm going either way, because for me, I'm interested in watching these five particular musicians play together.   I met Mike last year and told him "after all these years, it's still a treat to watch you play drums", and I meant it.  Whether it's Pull Me Under (a song they play a lot), or Space Dye Vest (a song they don't) or Master Of Puppets (a song I don't really like and isn't by them), I'm going to get what I paid for.  I'm sorry that "setlists" are that thing for you and it doesn't look good; I would hope you and your husband can find some other redeeming factor in the band in it's current incarnation.

Stadler

Quote from: gborland on February 26, 2024, 08:31:55 AM
Quote from: crystalstars17 on February 26, 2024, 07:53:52 AM
I mean what is the practical purpose of giving every city something different?

Keeping it exciting and unpredictable for the very many fans who don't want a cookie-cutter performance.

Quote
I personally love knowing what to expect when I buy tickets.

Why even bother going to the show, if you already know exactly what's going to happen?

Quote
Is it a ploy to sell more tickets? Because they feel that people who may have only bought one show will buy 3 or 4 in the hopes of getting a different show?

Yes! This is literally what used to happen in the good old days! So many people, myself included, would go to three or fours shows on each tour, and have a totally awesome time doing so. Latterly many people only went to one show, or even none at all because the shows were so boring and predictable. And the ticket sales suffered as a result.

I'll only note, it's not just for the fans, it's for the BAND.  Mike has been clear, he mixed it up to keep HIM (and presumably the rest of the band) engaged as well.   Some musicians are content with playing "Rock and Roll All Nite" 8,000 times.  Others are not.

OpenYourEyes311

Quote from: Stadler on February 26, 2024, 08:38:04 AM
Quote from: gborland on February 26, 2024, 08:31:55 AM
Quote from: crystalstars17 on February 26, 2024, 07:53:52 AM
I mean what is the practical purpose of giving every city something different?

Keeping it exciting and unpredictable for the very many fans who don't want a cookie-cutter performance.

Quote
I personally love knowing what to expect when I buy tickets.

Why even bother going to the show, if you already know exactly what's going to happen?

Quote
Is it a ploy to sell more tickets? Because they feel that people who may have only bought one show will buy 3 or 4 in the hopes of getting a different show?

Yes! This is literally what used to happen in the good old days! So many people, myself included, would go to three or fours shows on each tour, and have a totally awesome time doing so. Latterly many people only went to one show, or even none at all because the shows were so boring and predictable. And the ticket sales suffered as a result.

I'll only note, it's not just for the fans, it's for the BAND.  Mike has been clear, he mixed it up to keep HIM (and presumably the rest of the band) engaged as well.   Some musicians are content with playing "Rock and Roll All Nite" 8,000 times.  Others are not.

Yes, this! I was going to say it's probably a boredom thing mostly. I know I would be bored of the same old songs after a few months, let alone years, of playing them.

MirrorMask

Quote from: Stadler on February 26, 2024, 08:35:14 AM
I think, though, that some of the terms - "arbitrary", "unfair", the implication that it's a money grab - are really not universal.  What's "fair"?  For many, the setlist isn't the product; the band IS, whatever they play.

I guess I'm in this camp as well. Sure, when the show is said and done, I too would get annoyed at having missed a song, but in the moment, I'm watching the show for the performance of the artist, not for the specific order and flow of the setlist.

Bands in the end have full artistic control over their show; when I'm at a show, I witness what they chose to present in that specific date. I don't think I'm owed control over the setlist, I'm just owed the show I paid for.

When I went to see Bruce Springsteen, I eventually found out that he dropped the last song of the main set (Thunder Road) and the first song of the encore (Born in the USA). Am I happy about it? no. Do I think there was anything I could do about it? no, it's him who's in charge of the setlist. I paid for a Springsteen show and I got to see him playing 3 hours anyway, I didn't pay for a specific song. Again, I would have loved those two songs that many other dates got, but it's the band or the artist that make the setlists, I don't, I have no power over that and I accept that.

efx

Quote from: gborland on February 26, 2024, 08:31:55 AM

Why even bother going to the show, if you already know exactly what's going to happen?


I mean, I get the fascination of unpredictable setlists but I have hardly (never actually) made a decision to see a show based on me knowing what an artist will play or not. Don't really get why that would be a dealbreaker. In the end I would assume one would still enjoy seeing your favorite artist perform music you like would weigh more than anything else?
My new single Retro/Active: [url="https://open.spotify.com/track/3iQoVlyVYG9e8w7wPZweNi?si=131917e0c9d74317"]https://open.spotify.com/track/3iQoVlyVYG9e8w7wPZweNi?si=131917e0c9d74317[/url]

Chino

Quote from: MirrorMask on February 26, 2024, 08:59:16 AM

When I went to see Bruce Springsteen, I eventually found out that he dropped the last song of the main set (Thunder Road) and the first song of the encore (Born in the USA). Am I happy about it? no. Do I think there was anything I could do about it? no, it's him who's in charge of the setlist. I paid for a Springsteen show and I got to see him playing 3 hours anyway, I didn't pay for a specific song. Again, I would have loved those two songs that many other dates got, but it's the band or the artist that make the setlists, I don't, I have no power over that and I accept that.

I'm in agreement with everything you said, but I'd be freaking crushed if I went to see Springsteen and didn't hear that song/heard it was cut. That's one of his top 3 live tracks, imo. It'd be like Tom Petty cutting Free Fallin'.

Awaken

Quote from: Stadler on February 26, 2024, 08:10:50 AM
Quote from: Awaken on February 26, 2024, 05:35:40 AM
Quote from: Mosh on February 25, 2024, 07:25:09 PM
I still continue to strongly believe that a summer tour followed by an album release is the only possibility that makes sense.

When the band did ADTOE, they did a small amount of setlist rotation before phasing it out entirely by DT12. I think we're going to see the inverse: the initial tour will be a static escape from the studio tour, then maybe we'll see some rotation slots for the full album tour before a big Evening With type deal with old school style rotating setlists.

1. announce the dates
2. take my money
3. repeat

The first shows back are going to be nuts, hoping to make as many stops as possible - rotation of sets or not.  Still a little surreal this is happening.

I'm on board with this.   I'm blessed that if they do this "local" I'll have multiple opportunities to catch them playing.  I don't care about growing pains and learning curves; that's what's going to make it special to me. 

I know we've touched on this a couple times since 'the announcement', but I'm hoping for the hometown kickoff as well.  And couldn't agree more w the growing pains - it's okay that they show they're human.  However, regardless of where this ends up happening, I will be making every effort to get there for show #1.

I have a limited entertainment budget in 2024 and the majority of those dollars will be going to DT if/when they decide to escape from the studio.  The meetups will be great too - there's so much excitement for this next chapter for DT.


Chino

Quote from: Awaken on February 26, 2024, 09:44:30 AM
Quote from: Stadler on February 26, 2024, 08:10:50 AM
Quote from: Awaken on February 26, 2024, 05:35:40 AM
Quote from: Mosh on February 25, 2024, 07:25:09 PM
I still continue to strongly believe that a summer tour followed by an album release is the only possibility that makes sense.

When the band did ADTOE, they did a small amount of setlist rotation before phasing it out entirely by DT12. I think we're going to see the inverse: the initial tour will be a static escape from the studio tour, then maybe we'll see some rotation slots for the full album tour before a big Evening With type deal with old school style rotating setlists.

1. announce the dates
2. take my money
3. repeat

The first shows back are going to be nuts, hoping to make as many stops as possible - rotation of sets or not.  Still a little surreal this is happening.

I'm on board with this.   I'm blessed that if they do this "local" I'll have multiple opportunities to catch them playing.  I don't care about growing pains and learning curves; that's what's going to make it special to me. 

I know we've touched on this a couple times since 'the announcement', but I'm hoping for the hometown kickoff as well.  And couldn't agree more w the growing pains - it's okay that they show they're human.  However, regardless of where this ends up happening, I will be making every effort to get there for show #1.

I have a limited entertainment budget in 2024 and the majority of those dollars will be going to DT if/when they decide to escape from the studio.  The meetups will be great too - there's so much excitement for this next chapter for DT.

Outside of the Radio City Music hall DVD filming, and some extra views of The Astonishing, I've never really bothered with seeing DT outside of CT despite so many other shows being so close. I'd definitely make an exception this time around. I imagine a kickoff show in NYC would sell out pretty quickly.

hefdaddy42

Quote from: crystalstars17 on February 26, 2024, 07:53:52 AM
I mean what is the practical purpose of giving every city something different?
There is no "practical" purpose to it.  It's art, and artistic expression.  Like, I am struggling to even understand the question.

Quote from: crystalstars17 on February 26, 2024, 07:53:52 AM
I personally love knowing what to expect when I buy tickets. My husband and I love going online and seeing the expected setlist before going to (anyone's) show. It's exciting for us. I don't like not knowing, it seems arbitrary at best and at worst unfair.
Just curious, what in the world would you do if your local show was the first show of the tour?  Just not go, because you don't know what the setlist will be?  And even if they are doing just one static setlist, that can also be seen as arbitrary and unfair.

Quote from: crystalstars17 on February 26, 2024, 07:53:52 AM
Is it a ploy to sell more tickets? Because they feel that people who may have only bought one show will buy 3 or 4 in the hopes of getting a different show?
Doubtful.  There are certainly fans that would do that, but they would be in the extreme minority.

I already said "why".  It's to make that show in Poughkeepsie (or wherever) special.

I guess it's a good thing you are going to concerts NOW and not back in the day before the internet, when no one EVER knew a concert setlist before attending the show.
Quote from: BlobVanDam on December 11, 2014, 08:19:46 PMHef is right on all things. Except for when I disagree with him. In which case he's probably still right.

Setlist Scotty

Quote from: MirrorMask on February 26, 2024, 12:07:08 AM
Quote from: Cocopjojo on February 25, 2024, 07:48:16 PM
It's somewhat of a shame that the I&W and SFaM tours were so recent (well, recent-ish). I hope the band and fans aren't tired of those songs.
After 13 years without MP, I guess fans will be happy about a setlist with Pull Me Under, Metropolis, As I Am and The Spirit Carries On all together.
Why would we? As part of normal song rotation, maybe, but give me more of the catalog that has not seen the light of day since he left or at least hasn't been played within the last 7 years.


Quote from: crystalstars17 on February 26, 2024, 07:53:52 AM
Because they feel that people who may have only bought one show will buy 3 or 4 in the hopes of getting a different show? That's not even true because we've bought three shows with the same setlist before, so if we want to see them more than once and we can fit it into our schedule then we'll still go more than one time.
So why are you complaining? At the very least (if you go to only one show), you'll get a show unique to you, and at most (if you go to multiple shows), you'll get to see many more songs than you would if they stuck with a static setlist.


Quote from: crystalstars17 on February 26, 2024, 07:53:52 AM
Editing to add that I am entirely ok with them rotating a couple of songs. But the moment I hear that the second half of the show is a cover of an album from some random band I don't even know, then... Do you hear that? That's the sound of my feet walking TF out.
You will *never* have to worry about them covering a full album from another band without knowing about it. The *only* time they did this was when they were doing an Evening With tour, and only at the second show of a two-night stand. So in other words, if you went to both shows, you still got a solid 4 to 5 hours of DT music besides whatever album they covered. You may even like the band/album they are covering. And if you don't, maybe it might open you up to enjoy something you had not previously.

Even then, who knows if they'll continue that tradition now? Before MP left, it was pretty much a given (although they hadn't played Evening With shows for 4 years at that point), but while he was gone it never happened, and now that he's back they may not. Time will tell.

In fact, IIRC, did you say your husband was a DT fan long before you? Ask him what it was like during the first MP-era and with the rotating setlists.
Quote from: BlobVanDam on November 13, 2015, 07:37:14 PMAs a basic rule, if you hate it, you must solely blame Portnoy. If it's good, then you must downplay MP's contribution to the band as not being important anyway, or claim he's just lying. It's the DTF way.
Quote from: TAC on July 10, 2024, 08:26:41 AMPOW is awesome! :P

Ben_Jamin

Quote from: Chino on February 26, 2024, 09:29:56 AM
Quote from: MirrorMask on February 26, 2024, 08:59:16 AM

When I went to see Bruce Springsteen, I eventually found out that he dropped the last song of the main set (Thunder Road) and the first song of the encore (Born in the USA). Am I happy about it? no. Do I think there was anything I could do about it? no, it's him who's in charge of the setlist. I paid for a Springsteen show and I got to see him playing 3 hours anyway, I didn't pay for a specific song. Again, I would have loved those two songs that many other dates got, but it's the band or the artist that make the setlists, I don't, I have no power over that and I accept that.

I'm in agreement with everything you said, but I'd be freaking crushed if I went to see Springsteen and didn't hear that song/heard it was cut. That's one of his top 3 live tracks, imo. It'd be like Tom Petty cutting Free Fallin'.

Funny thing is I bet there a lot of casual Dream Theater fans who are just as crushed the band didn't play Pull Me Under.

geeeemo

DT can play anything they want, and I will be thrilled! And I will go see 2 or 3...maybe 4 shows no matter how they are doing the setlists. Early on, I wondered if seeing them play the same thing again so soon (The Astonishing 2 days apart), would be boring. Not at all! It was also exciting when they did the change up and dropped a few TA songs and added the...AIA, Spirit and PMU.

Just give me Dream Theater live!

gborland

Quote from: hefdaddy42 on February 26, 2024, 09:56:47 AM
Quote from: crystalstars17 on February 26, 2024, 07:53:52 AM
Is it a ploy to sell more tickets? Because they feel that people who may have only bought one show will buy 3 or 4 in the hopes of getting a different show?
Doubtful.  There are certainly fans that would do that, but they would be in the extreme minority.

It's no exaggeration to say that a very significant proportion of the crowds used to travel to multiple shows to catch rotating setlists. I remember on one of the tours I was on the train from Glasgow to Manchester for the second of a three-night DT tour for me, and around half the people on the train were wearing DT shirts doing the same as me...

DTiwbwMP

I think opening an "escape from studio" tour at Berkley PAC would be incredible. Maybe two shows with different sets. I'd ABSOLUTELY travel to Boston for those shows! :metal

MinistroRaven

#1137
Here's the video of what Cocopjojo posted some pages back:

QuoteHere is our interview with the latest member of the Umphrey's McGee family....Mr. Mike Portnoy!! Mike discusses his performance with UM in Chicago on 12/29/23, opens up about the influence Phish has had on his band Dream Theater, and talks Iron Maiden, Deep Purple, Yes & more!
PLEASE FOLLOW US on FB AND INSTAGRAM @puresaturationum
The next episode of Pure Saturation airs SATURDAY 3/30 AT 10 PM EST on free, listener-supported JEMP Radio featuring 2 1/2 of Umphrey's McGee music!! You can catch the replay of last week's episode this WEDNESDAY 2/28 at 9 AM.
Intro/Outro & sound editing by Anthony Cassels (@Anthonypros881 on YouTube)

Link:

https://www.facebook.com/puresaturationum/posts/pfbid02uzGPwRoG1DweNqzzfKKyfdPSFya92qTdawoZNPCLPvvBdADgFacH6BSzNHkZAhAGl

And MP posted this about the int4erview above:

QuoteNew MP Video Interview is out today with Pure Saturation where I talk all about my experience playing with @umphreysmcgee for their New Years Eve gigs in Chicago, as well as some interesting discussion about DT setlists and my love of Phish, Iron Maiden, Yes, Deep Purple, Jamming/Improvisation & much more!

DTiwbwMP

Good interview but nothing really "newsworthy" afa DT concerned.

TAC

Quote from: DTwwbwMP on February 26, 2024, 12:47:42 PM
I think opening an "escape from studio" tour at Berkley PAC would be incredible. Maybe two shows with different sets. I'd ABSOLUTELY travel to Boston for those shows! :metal

Saw them there already and that is one show that I wish they'd have done for the Ytsejam thing. Still have my boot though.
Quote from: wkiml on June 08, 2012, 09:06:35 AMwould have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Quote from: Stadler on Today at 12:49:43 PMI wouldn't argue this.

DTiwbwMP

Yeah^, I think the first reunion shows being back where the core met would be SO fitting and  :coolio

crystalstars17

Quote from: Stadler on February 26, 2024, 08:35:14 AM
I think the band long ago established themselves as "players".   The songs were a vehicle for them to PLAY, as opposed to say, a Bruce Springsteen, who is more about the SONGS and the moment those songs evoke

I can't speak for the band as I don't know, but for me as the concert-goer, it is always about the songs.

Quote from: OpenYourEyes311 on February 26, 2024, 08:49:26 AM
I know I would be bored of the same old songs after a few months, let alone years, of playing them.

Except, as professionals, that's literally their job. They're not playing avocationally just for the joy of it. They have 'paying customers' (the fans) who write their paychecks. Any kind of business needs to consider their paying customers, or the paying customers don't come back. It's that simple.

Quote from: hefdaddy42 on February 26, 2024, 09:56:47 AM
It's art, and artistic expression.

Sure it is, but it's also a business.

Quote from: hefdaddy42 on February 26, 2024, 09:56:47 AM
It's to make that show in Poughkeepsie (or wherever) special.

And it doesn't take a random setlist to make it special. A few songs changed on the second leg of the tour is enough?

Quote from: Setlist Scotty on February 26, 2024, 10:06:45 AM
So why are you complaining? At the very least (if you go to only one show), you'll get a show unique to you, and at most (if you go to multiple shows), you'll get to see many more songs than you would if they stuck with a static setlist.
So stating my opinion = complaining? It's no more "complaining" than anyone else here who is stating their opinions about static setlists. Some of us don't want a "unique" show. Perhaps your version of "stuck" and mine are two different things.

Quote from: Setlist Scotty on February 26, 2024, 10:06:45 AM
You will *never* have to worry about them covering a full album from another band without knowing about it.
Well that's a relief, at least!

Quote from: Setlist Scotty on February 26, 2024, 10:06:45 AM
IIRC, did you say your husband was a DT fan long before you? Ask him what it was like during the first MP-era and with the rotating setlists.

He only saw one MP show and it was one of the last few right before he left, so he wasn't there for that either. And he actually feels exactly as I do about this. When I told him about it, his reaction was not unlike my own.

Quote from: gborland on February 26, 2024, 08:31:55 AM
This is literally what used to happen in the good old days!

Not in my "good old days". And this is exactly the problem - why do people want them to go backwards? It's a new era! Let it be a new era. Anything less is one step closer to being that nostalgia act we've all agreed before that we don't want them to become.
The impossible is never out of reach

gborland

Quote from: crystalstars17 on February 26, 2024, 03:37:01 PM
Any kind of business needs to consider their paying customers, or the paying customers don't come back.

...and indeed the customers haven't been coming back on the last few tours with static setlists, which proves my point perfectly. The decline in ticket sales is quite astounding really.

Quote
Some of us don't want a "unique" show.

Why do you care what songs they play at other shows you aren't even at? I just can't grasp this at all. What difference does it make to you?

Quote
He only saw one MP show and it was one of the last few right before he left, so he wasn't there for that either. And he actually feels exactly as I do about this. When I told him about it, his reaction was not unlike my own.

So... your husband only saw one MP DT show, and he was annoyed because it was different from a whole bunch of other shows you guys didn't even go to?

Do you hate spontaneity in all aspects of your life, or just when it comes to music?

Quote
And this is exactly the problem - why do people want them to go backwards? It's a new era! Let it be a new era. Anything less is one step closer to being that nostalgia act we've all agreed before that we don't want them to become.

They tried it your way for 13 years. Look where it got them.

TheBarstoolWarrior

Quote from: gborland on February 26, 2024, 03:51:04 PM
Quote from: crystalstars17 on February 26, 2024, 03:37:01 PM
Any kind of business needs to consider their paying customers, or the paying customers don't come back.

...and indeed the customers haven't been coming back on the last few tours with static setlists, which proves my point perfectly. The decline in ticket sales is quite astounding really.

Quote
Some of us don't want a "unique" show.

Why do you care what songs they play at other shows you aren't even at? I just can't grasp this at all. What difference does it make to you?

Quote
He only saw one MP show and it was one of the last few right before he left, so he wasn't there for that either. And he actually feels exactly as I do about this. When I told him about it, his reaction was not unlike my own.

So... your husband only saw one MP DT show, and he was annoyed because it was different from a whole bunch of other shows you guys didn't even go to?

Do you hate spontaneity in all aspects of your life, or just when it comes to music?

Quote
And this is exactly the problem - why do people want them to go backwards? It's a new era! Let it be a new era. Anything less is one step closer to being that nostalgia act we've all agreed before that we don't want them to become.

They tried it your way for 13 years. Look where it got them.

By how much did ticket sales decline?
Disclaimer: All opinions stated are my own unless otherwise specified. I do not personally know any present or former members of DT. From time to time where the context is or should be obvious, I may decline to explicitly label my words as opinion. I cannot predict the future.

gborland

Quote from: TheBarstoolWarrior on February 26, 2024, 03:55:37 PM
By how much did ticket sales decline?

From my own personal observations, they went from playing a full venue on the ADTOE tour to the same venue barely 1/3 full on the last tour, with a steady decline on all the intermediate tours along the way. A 66% drop-off.

TheBarstoolWarrior

#1145
Quote from: gborland on February 26, 2024, 04:00:29 PM
Quote from: TheBarstoolWarrior on February 26, 2024, 03:55:37 PM
By how much did ticket sales decline?

From my own personal observations, they went from playing a full venue on the ADTOE tour to the same venue barely 1/3 full on the last tour, with a steady decline on all the intermediate tours along the way. A 66% drop-off.

A 66% decline is insane. If that is true, how does that not play a role in a decision to make a major shake up including but not limited to personnel, set list modifications, all of the above? Obviously, I do not favor the change for my own personal tastes but a sales drop of more than 60% would make any CEO or Board do something drastic to right the ship.
Disclaimer: All opinions stated are my own unless otherwise specified. I do not personally know any present or former members of DT. From time to time where the context is or should be obvious, I may decline to explicitly label my words as opinion. I cannot predict the future.

The Letter M

Quote from: TheBarstoolWarrior on February 26, 2024, 04:09:45 PM
Quote from: gborland on February 26, 2024, 04:00:29 PM
Quote from: TheBarstoolWarrior on February 26, 2024, 03:55:37 PM
By how much did ticket sales decline?

From my own personal observations, they went from playing a full venue on the ADTOE tour to the same venue barely 1/3 full on the last tour, with a steady decline on all the intermediate tours along the way. A 66% drop-off.

A 66% decline is insane. If that is true, how does not not play a decision to make a major shake up including but not limited to personnel, set list changes, all of the above? Obviously, I do not favor the change for my own personal tastes but a sales drop of more than 60% would make any CEO or Board do something drastic to right the ship.

How does what?

But yeah, from the comments I've seen on here about the last couple of tours, it sounds like venues weren't being filled like they used to, which boggles my mind because I thought DOT and AVFTTOTW were their two best efforts with Mangini.

-Marc.

TheBarstoolWarrior

Disclaimer: All opinions stated are my own unless otherwise specified. I do not personally know any present or former members of DT. From time to time where the context is or should be obvious, I may decline to explicitly label my words as opinion. I cannot predict the future.

Setlist Scotty

Quote from: crystalstars17 on February 26, 2024, 03:37:01 PM
Quote from: Setlist Scotty on February 26, 2024, 10:06:45 AM
So why are you complaining? At the very least (if you go to only one show), you'll get a show unique to you, and at most (if you go to multiple shows), you'll get to see many more songs than you would if they stuck with a static setlist.
So stating my opinion = complaining? It's no more "complaining" than anyone else here who is stating their opinions about static setlists. Some of us don't want a "unique" show. Perhaps your version of "stuck" and mine are two different things.
Well no offense, but yeah it does come off as complaining. Regarding unique shows, how about you focus on just the show(s) you attend instead of worrying about any other shows that you don't go to (and therefore will not be affected by) if it bothers you that much? Just pretend that the show you're seeing is exactly what everyone else is seeing. For that matter, what if they played a whole bunch of DT songs that you love at your show, but didn't at shows you didn't see? Would that make you feel better?

And I notice you avoided responding to my point about how you admit to having gone to multiple shows on the same tour. How is not seeing a wider variety of songs over multiple nights not better?


Quote from: crystalstars17 on February 26, 2024, 03:37:01 PM
Quote from: gborland on February 26, 2024, 08:31:55 AM
This is literally what used to happen in the good old days!
Not in my "good old days". And this is exactly the problem - why do people want them to go backwards? It's a new era! Let it be a new era. Anything less is one step closer to being that nostalgia act we've all agreed before that we don't want them to become.
Instead of "going backwards" I consider this "righting a wrong" that was made when MP left.  ;)


Quote from: gborland on February 26, 2024, 04:00:29 PM
Quote from: TheBarstoolWarrior on February 26, 2024, 03:55:37 PM
By how much did ticket sales decline?
From my own personal observations, they went from playing a full venue on the ADTOE tour to the same venue barely 1/3 full on the last tour, with a steady decline on all the intermediate tours along the way. A 66% drop-off.
I fully believe you Graham, but just for curiosity's sake, what city/venue? Because, IIRC, you live in the UK, not the US, so it's not like the last show you saw was the DreamSonic package tour, correct?
Quote from: BlobVanDam on November 13, 2015, 07:37:14 PMAs a basic rule, if you hate it, you must solely blame Portnoy. If it's good, then you must downplay MP's contribution to the band as not being important anyway, or claim he's just lying. It's the DTF way.
Quote from: TAC on July 10, 2024, 08:26:41 AMPOW is awesome! :P

Madman Shepherd

Quote from: gborland on February 26, 2024, 04:00:29 PM
Quote from: TheBarstoolWarrior on February 26, 2024, 03:55:37 PM
By how much did ticket sales decline?

From my own personal observations, they went from playing a full venue on the ADTOE tour to the same venue barely 1/3 full on the last tour, with a steady decline on all the intermediate tours along the way. A 66% drop-off.

Got any facts to back this up or just a random guess?

crystalstars17

Quote from: gborland on February 26, 2024, 03:51:04 PM
So... your husband only saw one MP DT show, and he was annoyed because it was different from a whole bunch of other shows you guys didn't even go to?

No, please allow me to rephrase that: he was not there for any rotating setlists. He only saw one MP show right before he left the band. He was not upset with that particular show. But he was about as happy as I was upon hearing about this earlier today.

But hey, one's trash is another's treasure, right? I hope we can agree to disagree amicably.

Quote from: TheBarstoolWarrior on February 26, 2024, 04:09:45 PM
Quote from: gborland on February 26, 2024, 04:00:29 PM
Quote from: TheBarstoolWarrior on February 26, 2024, 03:55:37 PM
By how much did ticket sales decline?

From my own personal observations, they went from playing a full venue on the ADTOE tour to the same venue barely 1/3 full on the last tour, with a steady decline on all the intermediate tours along the way. A 66% drop-off.

A 66% decline is insane. If that is true, how does that not play a role in a decision to make a major shake up including but not limited to personnel, set list modifications, all of the above? Obviously, I do not favor the change for my own personal tastes but a sales drop of more than 60% would make any CEO or Board do something drastic to right the ship.

How do we know for sure that it hasn't been due to other factors - like James's recent performances - and not the setlists??
The impossible is never out of reach

TheBarstoolWarrior

Quote from: crystalstars17 on February 26, 2024, 04:25:01 PM
Quote from: gborland on February 26, 2024, 03:51:04 PM
So... your husband only saw one MP DT show, and he was annoyed because it was different from a whole bunch of other shows you guys didn't even go to?

No, please allow me to rephrase that: he was not there for any rotating setlists. He only saw one MP show right before he left the band. He was not upset with that particular show. But he was about as happy as I was upon hearing about this earlier today.

But hey, one's trash is another's treasure, right? I hope we can agree to disagree amicably.

Quote from: TheBarstoolWarrior on February 26, 2024, 04:09:45 PM
Quote from: gborland on February 26, 2024, 04:00:29 PM
Quote from: TheBarstoolWarrior on February 26, 2024, 03:55:37 PM
By how much did ticket sales decline?

From my own personal observations, they went from playing a full venue on the ADTOE tour to the same venue barely 1/3 full on the last tour, with a steady decline on all the intermediate tours along the way. A 66% drop-off.

A 66% decline is insane. If that is true, how does that not play a role in a decision to make a major shake up including but not limited to personnel, set list modifications, all of the above? Obviously, I do not favor the change for my own personal tastes but a sales drop of more than 60% would make any CEO or Board do something drastic to right the ship.

How do we know for sure that it hasn't been due to other factors - like James's recent performances - and not the setlists??

We don't. I don't even know if 66% is in the ballpark of the total sales number. You could well be right that James' recent performances were a factor and if that be true, how incredibly unjust to Mike Mangini.
Disclaimer: All opinions stated are my own unless otherwise specified. I do not personally know any present or former members of DT. From time to time where the context is or should be obvious, I may decline to explicitly label my words as opinion. I cannot predict the future.

gborland

Quote from: Setlist Scotty on February 26, 2024, 04:22:21 PM
I fully believe you Graham, but just for curiosity's sake, what city/venue? Because, IIRC, you live in the UK, not the US, so it's not like the last show you saw was the DreamSonic package tour, correct?

I'm in the UK (Glasgow specifically) so you're right, the last show was the AVFTTOTW tour, not Dreamsonic.

I can't provide accurate numbers to back it up, other than my own observation that I was surrounded by empty seats, and I was actually embarrassed to be there. There were way more empty seats than occupied seats, that's for sure.

Setlist Scotty

Quote from: crystalstars17 on February 26, 2024, 04:25:01 PM
Quote from: TheBarstoolWarrior on February 26, 2024, 04:09:45 PM
Quote from: gborland on February 26, 2024, 04:00:29 PM
Quote from: TheBarstoolWarrior on February 26, 2024, 03:55:37 PM
By how much did ticket sales decline?
From my own personal observations, they went from playing a full venue on the ADTOE tour to the same venue barely 1/3 full on the last tour, with a steady decline on all the intermediate tours along the way. A 66% drop-off.
A 66% decline is insane. If that is true, how does that not play a role in a decision to make a major shake up including but not limited to personnel, set list modifications, all of the above? Obviously, I do not favor the change for my own personal tastes but a sales drop of more than 60% would make any CEO or Board do something drastic to right the ship.
How do we know for sure that it hasn't been due to other factors - like James's recent performances - and not the setlists??
This is true and a point that should not be ignored. There could also be other factors involved too, including fears from the pandemic, higher ticket prices, etc. But besides MP's return, if there's one thing that will probably bring fans back, it will be the varied setlists and without the click track. I know you weren't around before, but take it from someone who was: discussion about the tour, what happened at each specific show - especially the setlist and other things were much more talked about on MP's forum than here. There was a genuine excitement from many to find out what was played at a specific show, even though they didn't attend. That was certainly the case for me (hence my nickname) and many others. So while there were no doubt other factors that have also played a factor in shrinking attendance numbers, I don't think it's good to underestimate the excitement that comes from having rotating setlists.
Quote from: BlobVanDam on November 13, 2015, 07:37:14 PMAs a basic rule, if you hate it, you must solely blame Portnoy. If it's good, then you must downplay MP's contribution to the band as not being important anyway, or claim he's just lying. It's the DTF way.
Quote from: TAC on July 10, 2024, 08:26:41 AMPOW is awesome! :P

gborland

Quote from: crystalstars17 on February 26, 2024, 04:25:01 PM
But hey, one's trash is another's treasure, right? I hope we can agree to disagree amicably.

Oh, of course! I don't think you're wrong about anything. We just have drastically different personal preferences.  ;D

And as much as I may struggle to understand your point of view, I very much enjoy reading your responses.