John Petrucci's ToneMission

[gzarruk]

No idea what this is, but they're teasing some kind of new product.

https://tonemission.com/
https://youtu.be/BZEAhocNJEE

[MinistroRaven]

New pedal

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

I think it is going to be software. If that is the case I am curious to see what it brings to the table that was not done with his Neural DSP plug-in.

[nobloodyname]

Yeah, he's pretty much Mesa/Boogie or bust, isn't he? I guess he could be seeing the money the Neural DSP plug-in has brought in and has realised he could partially cut out the middle man?

If MinistroRaven's right, wonder what the pedal would be? Tonemission implies multi-level functionality.

[Lonk]

Yeah, he's pretty much Mesa/Boogie or bust, isn't he? I guess he could be seeing the money the Neural DSP plug-in has brought in and has realised he could partially cut out the middle man?

If MinistroRaven's right, wonder what the pedal would be? Tonemission implies multi-level functionality.

This is  my guess. Similar to JR, is probably a Guitar Tone software to play around with. In reality, physical pedals are not selling that well so digital stuff makes more sense.

[Blackstar1099]

He talks about it here with Ola England. I think it's a range of products.
https://youtu.be/oY8cF0vM0vI?t=1739

[Skeever]

Yeah, he's pretty much Mesa/Boogie or bust, isn't he? I guess he could be seeing the money the Neural DSP plug-in has brought in and has realised he could partially cut out the middle man?

If MinistroRaven's right, wonder what the pedal would be? Tonemission implies multi-level functionality.

Not sure what his status with Boogie is since they were bought out by Gibson.

[Lonk]

He talks about it here with Ola England. I think it's a range of products.
https://youtu.be/oY8cF0vM0vI?t=1739

Interesting, I remember watching that interview but did not remember that part of it. Looking forward to it

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

Yeah, he's pretty much Mesa/Boogie or bust, isn't he? I guess he could be seeing the money the Neural DSP plug-in has brought in and has realised he could partially cut out the middle man?

If MinistroRaven's right, wonder what the pedal would be? Tonemission implies multi-level functionality.

Not sure what his status with Boogie is since they were bought out by Gibson.

He uses exclusively Boogies in a live and recording setting and has for decades. He may add some supplemental effects with digital tools like the FM3 but the core sound you're hearing from him is his signature Mesa tube amp.

[nobloodyname]

I saw somewhere last night it's definitely software based. Wonder if it'll be a plug-in and how much it'll cost? Although, I'll be honest, it won't make me play like him and I've never loved his sound to the level others do

[efx]

Seems like the first offering will be an Impulse Response pavk
based on the latest instagram story that just went up:

[efx]

So the site is up and it's an IR pack based on the TV, LTE3 and AVFTTOTW albums. Sounds really good and it'll probably sell very well. Every time someone does a Mesa based IR pack people always asks which ones are the closest to a specific JP tone. This is as official as you are going to get

[nobloodyname]

So the sounds covered are those on LTE3, Terminal Velocity and A View From the Top of the World.

$79.99 for the lot.

[MinistroRaven]

Here's a video of JP giving more info about this new product:

https://fb.watch/lU6OrXqoix/

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

I am fairly illiterate in the world of studio equipment so maybe someone can help me.

I own the JP Neural DSP plug in. It has digital models of John's gear including various presets that Team JP has come up with. For example, there is a preset for the Alien and it has an amp, cab, mic and you can swap mics and tweak the positions etc.

What does this Tonemission pack do that my plug-in cannot do already when it comes to getting JP's tone?

[nobloodyname]

I'm not sure exactly what's included in the Neural plugin but I would say there doesn't appear much of a reason to buy the Tonemission pack if you own the Neural plugin. The pack is cheaper but it seems to be you have fewer options. Additionally, with the plugin, you have the full amp functionality rather than simply loading the IRs into your DAW for use with whatever guitar-based plugin you already have. In Studio One, for example, there's a built-in plugin called Ampere which contains a number of amps, cabs and pedals. The IRs would need to be loaded into that. With the Neural plugin, it has its own fully tweakable interface within your DAW.

I'm positive other people here can provide a more technical explanation (and perhaps verify what I've said is broadly correct, hopefully!) but I think that's the essence of it. The Tonemission IRs are cheaper but I think you lose broader functionality.

[efx]

Basically the above.I'd just mention that the archetype petrucci contains both the amp and the cabs needed. The cabs are the IR's so the new tone mission offering is just that, a set of captured cabinets using various mics and pres. So by itself it's not that useful but you can load them into the cab section of the neural archetype stuff if you want or in a loadbox with a real amp head.

IR's is most of the sounf tbh so I'll try these in a bit for sure

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

Maybe Tonemission is really like saying these IRs are better than the Neural IRs? I just don't get it. Some influencers posted demos of them using Tonemission on a totally different amp...but why would you buy JP's IRs from Liquid Tension Experiment through a totally different set up? Presumably the people buying this stuff are chasing JP's tone without spending 5K in gear.

[efx]

IR's/cabs generally contribute much more of the tone than they are given credit for. Most producers/engineers I know care more about the cab and how it's miked than what head is used.

So in this case yeah, if you want to be 100% exact you'd need the majesty played through JP2C head to totally replicate it but as these demos show, it's a great set of tones regardless of what you play it through.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

IR's/cabs generally contribute much more of the tone than they are given credit for. Most producers/engineers I know care more about the cab and how it's miked than what head is used.

So in this case yeah, if you want to be 100% exact you'd need the majesty played through JP2C head to totally replicate it but as these demos show, it's a great set of tones regardless of what you play it through.

Do you think the JP IRs are going to be much different from the Neural ones?

[efx]

I haven't tried them yet as I'm on vacation but I have both his signature amp and the neural suite and the latters IR's are really great. They are not 100% replications of the albums like his new pack but it has tons of usable tones for sure.

[nobloodyname]

Maybe Tonemission is really like saying these IRs are better than the Neural IRs? I just don't get it. Some influencers posted demos of them using Tonemission on a totally different amp...but why would you buy JP's IRs from Liquid Tension Experiment through a totally different set up? Presumably the people buying this stuff are chasing JP's tone without spending 5K in gear.

The first part is about money. It's a very easy way to take the desire for JP fans to sound like they're using his equipment in-house. It's cutting out the middle-man, simple as that, and the pricing certainly reflects that.

As for the second part, you wouldn't ideally use IRs or something like a Kemper through a standard amp and/or cab. You'd usually want to use them through a full range, flat response (FRFR) speaker; something like a Headrush. The idea is the speaker doesn't colour the sound being produced so you really do get as close as possible to the sound of JP's amps and cabs combos (or indeed any other combo that's been profiled).

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

Maybe Tonemission is really like saying these IRs are better than the Neural IRs? I just don't get it. Some influencers posted demos of them using Tonemission on a totally different amp...but why would you buy JP's IRs from Liquid Tension Experiment through a totally different set up? Presumably the people buying this stuff are chasing JP's tone without spending 5K in gear.

The first part is about money. It's a very easy way to take the desire for JP fans to sound like they're using his equipment in-house. It's cutting out the middle-man, simple as that, and the pricing certainly reflects that.

As for the second part, you wouldn't ideally use IRs or something like a Kemper through a standard amp and/or cab. You'd usually want to use them through a full range, flat response (FRFR) speaker; something like a Headrush. The idea is the speaker doesn't colour the sound being produced so you really do get as close as possible to the sound of JP's amps and cabs combos (or indeed any other combo that's been profiled).

Would studio monitors be better? I have a small pair of monitors that I use for playing through the JP plug in.

[nobloodyname]

Studio monitors are apparently supposed to be flat response so the answer would be yes to that.

[Architeuthis]

Maybe Tonemission is really like saying these IRs are better than the Neural IRs? I just don't get it. Some influencers posted demos of them using Tonemission on a totally different amp...but why would you buy JP's IRs from Liquid Tension Experiment through a totally different set up? Presumably the people buying this stuff are chasing JP's tone without spending 5K in gear.

If you wanted JP's actual setup, 5k would only be a start.  You can get a EBMM Majesty for 4k, a Mesa Boogie Mark5 JP 2c and cabinet for another 5k , and the Axe effects for another 2.5 k. That's just the basic setup not including the pedals. 

[gzarruk]

You can get a EBMM Majesty for 4k

I remember not too long ago when EBMM instruments would mostly be in the 1500 - 2K range.  They offer the same stuff now, but their prices have skyrocketed

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

Yeah, it's been a pretty dramatic spike upwards.

I own 2 JP signature guitars. Years ago I bought one for ~$2.2K and the other for ~$2.4K and to your point, now the same guitar is $4K. EBMM makes high quality guitars and that has been consistent but after a a while you start to wonder what you're paying for exactly. You REALLY have to love JP or just be rich to buy one of those. They are pretty much releasing ultra premium versions of the Majesty every year, so now it's a less conventional wood top or paint job that even covers the neck for like $6K. It's gotten quite nutty when you have so many great alternatives.

For $1.6K you could get a Sterling Majesty and the Archetype Petrucci plug-in and get pretty damn close sonically.

[gzarruk]

I'm not a guitar player, but I used to own an EBMM bass which I bought used thinking I'd love it, but it wasn't as comfortable/playable as my other (cheaper) basses, so I ended up selling it after a couple years. I never understood why people pay so much for those when there's literally (to me, at least) lots of better options for a fraction of the price. I guess "Made in the USA" is the leading factor here for charging way more nowadays.

Having said that, I'd totally buy one of JP's guitars if I could 1. afford them and 2. actually play guitar well

[Lonk]

I'm not a guitar player, but I used to own an EBMM bass which I bought used thinking I'd love it, but it wasn't as comfortable/playable as my other (cheaper) basses, so I ended up selling it after a couple years. I never understood why people pay so much for those when there's literally (to me, at least) lots of better options for a fraction of the price. I guess "Made in the USA" is the leading factor here for charging way more nowadays.

Having said that, I'd totally buy one of JP's guitars if I could 1. afford them and 2. actually play guitar well

I have played a lot of different guitars, and EBMM are by far my favorites. They have the right balance between comfort, weight, looks, and sound (for me, at least). Nowadays, I wouldn't buy one new just because of the price, but whether they are worth the cost or not is up to the player itself. I would say this, compared to other guitars around the same price, the only other brand I would put on the same level is PRS, just my opinion

[vtgrad]

I'm not a guitar player, but I used to own an EBMM bass which I bought used thinking I'd love it, but it wasn't as comfortable/playable as my other (cheaper) basses, so I ended up selling it after a couple years. I never understood why people pay so much for those when there's literally (to me, at least) lots of better options for a fraction of the price. I guess "Made in the USA" is the leading factor here for charging way more nowadays.

Having said that, I'd totally buy one of JP's guitars if I could 1. afford them and 2. actually play guitar well

I have played a lot of different guitars, and EBMM are by far my favorites. They have the right balance between comfort, weight, looks, and sound (for me, at least). Nowadays, I wouldn't buy one new just because of the price, but whether they are worth the cost or not is up to the player itself. I would say this, compared to other guitars around the same price, the only other brand I would put on the same level is PRS, just my opinion

Having owned several EBMMs and Sterlings myself (one of which was sold to VMadera  ) I can say with confidence that they are the best I've every played or owned.  Smooth, well balanced, hotrods they are for certain... same for the Sterlings.  In all honesty, my Majesty Sterling was superior, in my hands anyway, to the EBMM Majesty that I owned (part of the reason I sold it).

Having not played a PRS, I can't speak for those, but I do own a couple of higher-end Schecters as well and I'd stack the Majesty or JP (EBMM or Sterling) up against them.  Ibanez as well.  I also find the Majesty/JP models to be as comfortable and as balanced as Strandbergs.

Having bought a EBMM Majesty back in 2017, I'll echo everyone else regarding the current prices.  Bit high, even for hand-made IMHO.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

With guitars, once you get into the 2K-3K range you're pushing into the are of diminishing returns. That is not to say I haven't paid more than $3K for a guitar but you shouldn't expect to see a huge difference in quality from 3K to 6K. Actually most everyone is expecting a 2K guitar to be damn near perfect! After a certain point, there's not much left to justify such a massive amount of money for a PRS custom shop unless you're getting one of those very intricate dragon finishes.

The only things we'll benefit from that would really push the price higher are more exotic materials or figured woods or more hands and eyes on the instrument or some sort of upgrade like going from nickel frets to stainless steel (not applicable here).

It's expensive to hire people in California so maybe that is part of it.

In terms of the signature amp, it's even worse lol. For $150 I bought Archetype Petrucci whereas the JP amp head alone is $4K.

[Architeuthis]

Speaking of PRS guitars, my main go to guitar is a PRS custom 22. I bought it back in late 1993 and its the only  high end guitar I have.  It's been great to me over the years!  I've never even had the opportunity to try out a EBMM since there are no dealers anywhere close to where I live.  I really like the specs of the JP models and the placement of the knobs. Everything is out of the way and free of obstacles..
I would love to get a JP model someday but the legend of the rent keeps me at bay. I think the song Out of Reach is actually a metaphor for the unattainable JP Majesty..  🤑

[Lonk]

Having owned several EBMMs and Sterlings myself (one of which was sold to VMadera  )

[vtgrad]

Having owned several EBMMs and Sterlings myself (one of which was sold to VMadera  )

 . How's that Copper Fire doing anyway?

[Lonk]

I've been playing a bit more lately (not as much as I wish I could) and that's my go to guitar. Just last week I gave it some much needed love with new strings and lubricated the neck