Author Topic: Playing DT's unison parts  (Read 770 times)

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Offline Peter1960

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Playing DT's unison parts
« on: July 08, 2023, 04:58:54 AM »
I am a guitarist and keyboard player, although a million miles away from JP and JR in terms of ability. I occasionally test myself by trying to play some of DT’s unison parts (I have sheet music for most of the albums) but generally give up after a while, due to lack of patience, lack of willpower, or simply lack of skill !

One piece that  have always found intriguing is the unison part in Octavarium from 16:46 – 17:30. It is super fast with constant changes in time signature.

Frank Zappa once credited Steve Vai with playing “impossible guitar parts” on his albums – for me, the above unison section is an impossible guitar part and an impossible keyboard part !

Has anyone out there managed to nail this section ? How did you do it – did you slow the piece down and learn it a few bars at a time, and then increase the tempo ? How long did this take ?

Another tricky part (for me) is the unison part in Metropolis Part 1 from 07:23-8:00. it is not as hard to play as the Octavarium part but there are just so many notes !

If there are any skilled musicians on this forum that have managed to replicate some of DT’s unison parts (particularly those above) I would be interested to know how you did it, as I cannot ask JP or JR myself !

Thanks

Offline Schurftkut

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Re: Playing DT's unison parts
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2023, 06:58:01 AM »
start slow, learn per fingering position and build it piece by piece. then start pushing for tempo

Offline WilliamMunny

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Re: Playing DT's unison parts
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2023, 06:14:02 PM »
Yeah, I mean, without redirecting your entire practice routine, I think there's only one way to learn anything–slowly and piece by piece.

I mean, I hate to be the one to tell you, but it's way less about skill, and way more about patience and will-power.

Back in the day, I decided I wanted to be able to bust out 'that' part in "The Glass Prison."

I'm not now, nor have I ever been big on learning 'covers'–I've primarily played in 'originals' bands my whole life. That said, I've certainly cherry-picked parts/songs/solos over the years in an effort to 'up my game.'

If it's something that really moves me, it tends to stick, but other things I'd learn, play for a few months, and then promptly forget them. The solo to "Hotel California"? Yeah, I can play that right now note for note. "Eruption"? Meh, I probably only remember the tapping part.

Anyway, up until tackling TGP, I'd never really come against something that required a whole other level of playing. But, I mean, it's such a hard part JP barely can play it (especially when MP would push the tempo back in the day).

That said, I have always done tons of work with a metronome, so I did what I always do. I found a good transcription, broke the solo apart into a dozen or so parts (corresponding with the chord changes), and got to work with my metronome.

Every day, I'd begin my metronome work, and I would play through the first section, starting at, say, 100 bpm, and then work my way up to tempo (whatever it is, it's fast). Obviously, I'd have to tap out eventually, but after a couple of weeks, I had the pattern down.

There's a few different patterns in that solo, a monster sweep, and a couple of other tricks, but once I got that first few bars down, the rest came pretty quickly.

Then, after a few months, I could play along with the record, and eventually, I got pretty clean at playing it. Hell, I used to play that solo a few bpm faster than the record, just to say I could.

It was a fun parlor trick, but all these years later, I'll be damned if I can remember a single bar of that solo.

My point is, regardless of your skill level, there's a tempo you can play that unison part at. It might be at a quarter speed, but there's a tempo. Hell, I could probably play it on keyboard at a quarter speed.

So start there, and work your way up in 4 bpm increments, until you can't play it. Also, decide if you are going to sight-read it, or memorize it, because that might change your approach.

Repeat daily, and in 6-12 months you will have yourself a cool little parlor trick ;D

My point? If you're willing to put the blood, sweat, tears, and time in, there's probably little you can't play, especially if we're only talking about thirty seconds of music.

That all said, if you really want to up your game as a musician, simply learning a 'really' complicated unison part is probably not the best use of your time. Yes, you will build stamina and dexterity, but I've come to appreciate that there's so much more to music than shredding patterns on an instrument, and when I hear most of DT's unison work, that's kinda what it sounds like.

Best of luck–happy shredding!


Offline wolfking

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Re: Playing DT's unison parts
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2023, 04:04:57 AM »
I'll have to check it out.  Never tried anything from 8VM.

I admit that part in Metropolis is a deadset nightmare.  Good pick.  I gave up years ago once I got to that part.  I should try again though.
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Offline Lonk

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Re: Playing DT's unison parts
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2023, 02:12:55 PM »
What William said.

Seriously, slow it down, identify the patterns, and slowly build up speed. Here is a video with Metropolis. I think it's useful in breaking down some parts.

https://youtu.be/wFLXHjEVRg0?t=3567

When I try to learn difficult parts, I try to identify a pattern I can follow, and take it one piece at a time, add two pieces together, then keep adding until I feel I can play it whole. If there is not identifiable pattern, I just slow it down and take it a measure at a time. The Metropolis part is much harder than Octavarium IMO.
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Offline Peter1960

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Re: Playing DT's unison parts
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2023, 01:54:02 AM »
Thanks for your comments !

I note there are a couple of people on YouTube that have done covers of the entire Octavarium track, including the section that I am trying to master. I take my hat off to them - I don't know how long they spent working out the parts and bringing them up to speed but hey - total respect !

For those of you that are interested, here's a link to one of the clips :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KgLSDQeGE0&t=841s

I would imagine that given the dedication of the DT musicians fanbase out there, across the world, every one of JP's parts can be played by somebody (maybe even every one of JR's parts as well).

Huge props to you all !!

Offline TheBarstoolWarrior

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Re: Playing DT's unison parts
« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2023, 08:32:36 PM »
I am not sure how long you've been playing or what you play but the key to this is as JP has said 'take small bites' and start very slow. You may need to take half of one measure at at time and not move on until it is committed to memory. JP is working from a mental bank of thousands and thousands of hours of playing. I assume you do not have such an extensive bank based on your post. It's going to take time. Just be patient and stick with it. You'll find out how much you really value playing this one musical idea because you'll probably spend a few hours learning to play a few seconds of music.

The key is not rocket science; it is what I mentioned above. Most of this is sitting there for hours with your metronome going 'DOH!' over and over again. Personally I cannot recall what these passages sound like without hearing them - I have not learned them. But I have learned other things that were foreign to me. It all comes down to the same thing: start small and slow and gradually build your way up.