The NBA 2023-2024 thread - and Guns and Rose

[King Postwhore]

My turn on the 30th vs. Indy who is a bad matchup for the C's.

[TAC]

That'll be a good game!

[King Postwhore]

Definitely. I'm just over the moon to experience it with my nephew,  who's just getting into basketball and my brother for reasons, you know all too well.

[SoundscapeMN]

Speaking of my team, the Timberwolves were in Boston last night on the second night of a back-to-back. I mean, we're the best in the West, but second night of a back to back in Boston? Automatic "L." Then I find out Mike Conley (our starting PG) and Rudy Gobert (our starting center and DPOY candidate) are both out. No way we're winning, even with the Celtics being without their own center, Kristaps Porzingis (their third best player).

Well...if it wasn't for some really stupid fouls and turnovers, we would have won that game. We had it. Went to OT, and the Celtics did what championship teams do -- the capitalized. Great game, even if my team was on the losing end of things.

The Cs have been my call since July to win it all, and that hasn't changed. I'm not sure the Wolves are ready yet to win the West, but the two games against the Cs this year have shown me that if they make it, and it's Wolves-Celtics in the Finals (a long way off), it is going seven games, without a doubt. They really match up well.

I'm not assuming the Wolves make that long of a playoff run yet. They are 5-5 in their last 10 games. It's a long season, per I want to see how well they are playing in March.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

Seems there may not be a link between load management and lower injury risk: https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/39288379/nba-report-no-link-load-management-less-injury-risk

If this is true, I hope it leads to less and less load management over time. I think the NBA has developed a real image problem in terms of star players missing too many games, and while I do think some of it is overblown, in a perfect world, no one would miss any games unless he was truly injured.

[Nekov]

Seems there may not be a link between load management and lower injury risk: https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/39288379/nba-report-no-link-load-management-less-injury-risk

If this is true, I hope it leads to less and less load management over time. I think the NBA has developed a real image problem in terms of star players missing too many games, and while I do think some of it is overblown, in a perfect world, no one would miss any games unless he was truly injured.

I've heard some veterans say that they think the current amount of injuries is more related to the fact that teams don't practice as much as they used to and that load management has been established by team management rather than being something players push for.

[Azyiu]

What a shocking and unfortunate news about Warriors' assistant coach Milojevic, RIP

[Samsara]

I'm not assuming the Wolves make that long of a playoff run yet. They are 5-5 in their last 10 games. It's a long season, per I want to see how well they are playing in March.

I'm not assuming it either. They have holes. Notably, a backup pg, and a reliable wing scorer off the bench (Naz Reid is awesome, but he's not a wing). If we end up prying Tyus Jones away from the Wizards, it will almost assuredly mean Kyle Anderson goes (who is a tremendous glue guy and reliable stat sheet stuffer depending on what the team needs), and likely Shake Milton (no big loss). BUT, after watching every single game, I think this team has it in them to make that run, and make a significant jump. In my mind, right now, they are one of three teams that has a legitimate shot of coming out of the West as currently constructed. The Wolves, Nuggets, and Pelicans, if all healthy, have the best shot. Phoenix is unbalanced, the Lakers aren't deep enough, Dallas isn't deep enough, the Clippers have egos and aren't deep enough, the Kings...are a year away, and need size. Not saying those teams can't come out of the west, of course they can. But I think their holes are deeper than the Wolves' holes. Denver is still the class of the west. The Pelicans may sound like a surprise, but they aren't. If they stay healthy (big if), that team is incredibly deep. If they lose Zion, they slide back into the pack. But with him? They will be a handful.

But I really like what I see with the Timberwolves. I've been a fan of the Wolves since the expansion year. Teaneck, N.J.'s own Tony Campbell was my favorite player. Fell in love with them watching them play against the Knicks on TV. I can honestly say that no Wolves team has been this talented and deep. And yes, that counts the KG-Marbury-Googs years, the KG-Spree-Cassell years, and the Butler-Towns-Wiggins year. The Timberwolves are deep, really, really good, and the best team this franchise has ever seen. It will NOT surprise me one iota if they win the west. Not assuming that at all, because of the aforementioned holes. But it will not surprise me at all if they stay healthy and come out of the conference. that said, it would also not surprise me if they get bounced in the second round if they aren't able to fill one of the holes. You can't rely on a 36 year starting PG and him playing 30-34 minutes per game. Just not smart. That's why Tyus Jones is necessary. His assist-to-turnover ratio is just as low as Conley, he's now a better shooter than he was during his initial stint with the Wolves, he's comfortable in Minnesota (since he's from there), and just the perfect floor general for a winning team slotting in behind Mike "Bite, Bite" Conley.

I very much hope it happens. It needs to. Or someone of his ilk to come in and support Conley. So that Conley can play 26-28, and Jones or someone else can play 20-ish in a backup role.

Regarding the East...very interesting move by the Pacers. I think the Raptors fleeced them. I like Siakam. But THREE first rounders for a dude who can walk away at the end of the year? Indiana is really banking on him making a difference defensively. Uh...Indiana doesn't play defense...even with Myles Turner. Not sure how this trade did anything except give the Pacers a bit more size and scoring touch. And frankly, the Pacers have all the scoring they need. We'll see how it goes, but I still think they are behind the class in the East.

Toronto has really set themselves up well. I don't think losing Siakam is going to hurt them this year at all. They have their backcourt set (assuming they keep Quickley), and Barnes is the man moving forward. That group of Barnes-Barrett-Quickley will be great. And I can only see them improving via the draft. And like I said, they really will have fleeced the Pacers if Siakam walks. I am absolutely stunned the Pacers made that trade without locking up Siakam in the process.

Anyway, always interesting around this time to see what trades go down. Have to figure the Lakers will be wheeling and dealing. Chicago needs to figure themselves out. The Heat need a piece. Atlanta will be curious. Are they done with Murray? If so, where does he land? (I figured out a trade that works financially to the Wolves involving two first rounders, but I can't see why Atlanta would do that.)

Wolves have Memphis tonight in Minny. Timberwolves played sloppy as hell in Detroit last night. If they come out like that again, they are getting beat. Hopefully they got yelled out. Coach Finch was pissed  in the post game (without appearing pissy, but he deadpanned he didn't like how they played).

[Indiscipline]

I agree the T-Wolves have a fair chance, and they really seem cut (and definitely have the size) for play-off basketball. I wouldn't sleep on the Clippers, though. They are silently killing, even though you definitely have a point about the primadonna issues, and I would add Kawhi isn't a lock to stay healthy and Harden always seems to crap the bed in playoff tight games.

T-Wolves were my favourite expansion team, and I personally enjoyed a lot Dean Garrett - you may remember him - when he came playing for the team I used to root for here in Italy when I was a kid.  He helped us - along with another NBA exile, George McCloud - to our finals.

[Samsara]

I remember both Dean and George, yes!

It's funny, I became a basketball fan in summer 1989, and I just loved connecting with a team that was new when I was a new fan myself. I always rooted for the hometown Knicks, but the Wolves were my team. I used to clip the box scores from the newspapers every day. In fact, our school librarian would always make sure to get the afternoon edition of our local paper, so that after school, I could clip out the Wolves' box score. (Since they were in the Midwest, the early edition of the East Coast newspapers never had the scores.)

Not sleeping on the Clips at all. When they made the trade, I told everyone I knew that with four HOFers on that team, they'd be trouble. They laughed at me as they fumbled. But I knew it was only a matter of time before they figured it out. But that lack of depth is alarming. If everyone stays healthy though, they are in the mix FOR SURE.

[SoundscapeMN]

I'm not assuming the Wolves make that long of a playoff run yet. They are 5-5 in their last 10 games. It's a long season, per I want to see how well they are playing in March.

I'm not assuming it either. They have holes. Notably, a backup pg, and a reliable wing scorer off the bench (Naz Reid is awesome, but he's not a wing). If we end up prying Tyus Jones away from the Wizards, it will almost assuredly mean Kyle Anderson goes (who is a tremendous glue guy and reliable stat sheet stuffer depending on what the team needs), and likely Shake Milton (no big loss). BUT, after watching every single game, I think this team has it in them to make that run, and make a significant jump. In my mind, right now, they are one of three teams that has a legitimate shot of coming out of the West as currently constructed. The Wolves, Nuggets, and Pelicans, if all healthy, have the best shot. Phoenix is unbalanced, the Lakers aren't deep enough, Dallas isn't deep enough, the Clippers have egos and aren't deep enough, the Kings...are a year away, and need size. Not saying those teams can't come out of the west, of course they can. But I think their holes are deeper than the Wolves' holes. Denver is still the class of the west. The Pelicans may sound like a surprise, but they aren't. If they stay healthy (big if), that team is incredibly deep. If they lose Zion, they slide back into the pack. But with him? They will be a handful.

But I really like what I see with the Timberwolves. I've been a fan of the Wolves since the expansion year. Teaneck, N.J.'s own Tony Campbell was my favorite player. Fell in love with them watching them play against the Knicks on TV. I can honestly say that no Wolves team has been this talented and deep. And yes, that counts the KG-Marbury-Googs years, the KG-Spree-Cassell years, and the Butler-Towns-Wiggins year. The Timberwolves are deep, really, really good, and the best team this franchise has ever seen. It will NOT surprise me one iota if they win the west. Not assuming that at all, because of the aforementioned holes. But it will not surprise me at all if they stay healthy and come out of the conference. that said, it would also not surprise me if they get bounced in the second round if they aren't able to fill one of the holes. You can't rely on a 36 year starting PG and him playing 30-34 minutes per game. Just not smart. That's why Tyus Jones is necessary. His assist-to-turnover ratio is just as low as Conley, he's now a better shooter than he was during his initial stint with the Wolves, he's comfortable in Minnesota (since he's from there), and just the perfect floor general for a winning team slotting in behind Mike "Bite, Bite" Conley.

I very much hope it happens. It needs to. Or someone of his ilk to come in and support Conley. So that Conley can play 26-28, and Jones or someone else can play 20-ish in a backup role.

Regarding the East...very interesting move by the Pacers. I think the Raptors fleeced them. I like Siakam. But THREE first rounders for a dude who can walk away at the end of the year? Indiana is really banking on him making a difference defensively. Uh...Indiana doesn't play defense...even with Myles Turner. Not sure how this trade did anything except give the Pacers a bit more size and scoring touch. And frankly, the Pacers have all the scoring they need. We'll see how it goes, but I still think they are behind the class in the East.

Toronto has really set themselves up well. I don't think losing Siakam is going to hurt them this year at all. They have their backcourt set (assuming they keep Quickley), and Barnes is the man moving forward. That group of Barnes-Barrett-Quickley will be great. And I can only see them improving via the draft. And like I said, they really will have fleeced the Pacers if Siakam walks. I am absolutely stunned the Pacers made that trade without locking up Siakam in the process.

Anyway, always interesting around this time to see what trades go down. Have to figure the Lakers will be wheeling and dealing. Chicago needs to figure themselves out. The Heat need a piece. Atlanta will be curious. Are they done with Murray? If so, where does he land? (I figured out a trade that works financially to the Wolves involving two first rounders, but I can't see why Atlanta would do that.)

Wolves have Memphis tonight in Minny. Timberwolves played sloppy as hell in Detroit last night. If they come out like that again, they are getting beat. Hopefully they got yelled out. Coach Finch was pissed  in the post game (without appearing pissy, but he deadpanned he didn't like how they played).

I actually babbled on about them on my YouTube channel a few weeks ago here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_oePzlQQuM

I've been a fan since the beginning, per I'm old enough (47) and also a resident of Minnesota (go figure).

I do think you may be right in that this season's team may be their best and deepest in some ways. The 03-04 I would say had arguably as good of a defense (with Garnett alone..and then the likes of Spree and Trenton Hassell gave them 3 guys who were long and could defend the perimeter). And Cassell that year was lights out, so I would give him the nod over Conley.

But I do think this year's team has more offense and better outside shooting, which is partially a product of the NBA now vs how it was 20 years ago.

Edwards vs Garnett..Edwards potential is still high and as a guy who can create his own shot, and someone to take a shot at the end of the game, he is better. He is not the defender Garnett was though, although he's getting better.

I guess I'm impressed with their depth and abililty to turn up their defense or offense when needed and to HOLD ON TO LEADS which they have an awful history of not being able to do so.

That being said..it's still just the regular season and why I want to see this level of play and winning well into March and in the playoffs to see. At a minumum, they should get a HOME SERIES in the 1st round which gives them an advantage to at least get past the 1st round.

And of course, they likely need to keep most of their guys healthy. A Trade? i'm unsure if they will do it due to chemistry. Tyus Jones?..maybe. I would want someone who has experience in the playoffs winning.

[King Postwhore]

Looking forward to Nuggets/Celtics game tonight. 


I'm going on the 30th for the C's/Pacers game.  That will be a great game as well.

[Lonk]

So if he doesn't miss any games, Lebron is set to reach the 40K points mark by the end of February, which is something I never thought he would do.

[Samsara]

So if he doesn't miss any games, Lebron is set to reach the 40K points mark by the end of February, which is something I never thought he would do.

It's remarkable. I mean, starting as young as he did, and with the rule changes enabling free flow offense, it was inevitable that at some point, someone would amass the kind of point level he has, but regardless of era, it's incredible.

I find the whole debate about Lebron being the GOAT laughable. I mean, there are ERAs for a reason. He's ONE OF the absolute top legends of the game. People need to accept that. My personal judgment is evaluating whether a guy could play just as effectively in ANY era of the game. If so, the numbers don't lie.

For me, Lebron could have dominated in any era of the game. In the early years, 60s, 70s, he'd be a freak. In the 80s, people would call him a cross between Magic and a burlier guy. in the 90s, he's  a larger version of what Grant Hill WOULD have been had he not been so badly injured. Lebron, whether people like it or not, is a legend.

Sure, I hate his whining, he flops like a fish, and he jumped around the league like a crack addict looking for the next easy score. LOL. But the bottom line is, he dominates. And he could have in any era.

[Samsara]

Absolute dog sh** by the Wolves last night. Taking teams for granted. As much as KAT was on fire, they played ZERO defense, and young Mr. Edwards deferred way too much. Coach Finch was maaaaaaad last night, and he should have been. Hopefully this kicks them in the pants, and they run off the next three games (Wizards, Nets, Spurs). But after losing to Charlotte, all bets are off.

[King Postwhore]

The Bucks fired their head coach!  Holy crap!

[Azyiu]

The Bucks fired their head coach!  Holy crap!

Exactly! WTF? It ain't like the Bucks are terrible. They are 30-13 and #2 in the East. And who in their right mind would want to hire Doc Rivers as a coach today? I don't get it. 

[Lonk]

The Bucks fired their head coach!  Holy crap!

Exactly! WTF? It ain't like the Bucks are terrible. They are 30-13 and #2 in the East. And who in their right mind would want to hire Doc Rivers as a coach today? I don't get it. 

Agree though, weird move by the Bucks, but maybe some of the players didn't like the coach.

[Samsara]

Very odd move, considering the record of the team. I wonder if something else is brewing about Adrian Griffin that we'll find out about soon enough.

Why all the Doc Rivers hate? The guy is a great coach.

[Indiscipline]

Puzzling move. Sure, their defense stinks a bit this year, but it was quite predictable when changing Holiday for Lillard, and I doubt the coach is to blame for the trade.

 

[TAC]

The Bucks fired their head coach!  Holy crap!

Felger was talking about this the other day about how things aren't right with the Bucks despite their record.

[T-ski]

The Griffin hire was surprising when it happened, word was Giannis pushed hard for him. Bucks also brought in Terry Stotts as an assistant. These two actually got into it in training camp and Stotts resigned immediately.

It has been well rumored Dame never thought highly of Griffin and the rest of the team started turning as well. The teams record is more a reflection of their talent than coaching. The defense has been ridiculously awful and you could see the last couple of weeks the team was done with Griffin.

Not surprised it happened at all.

And please God, not Doc.

[Samsara]

WHY NOT DOC?

What is all the hate for this guy? All he does is win.

[Azyiu]

WHY NOT DOC?

What is all the hate for this guy? All he does is win.

Doc is a good motivator for young, struggling teams... but many of his former players had said that only lasted for a couple of seasons wherever he goes before he keeps repeating the same old things. Worst of all, what turned people off was his lack of in-game strategy adjustments. Don't forget he is #1 in blowing 3-1 playoff series leads as a coach. And even until his recent gig in Philly, all he ever really did was keep milking his 2008 championship with the Cs.

[Samsara]

1096-763   .590

9th all-time in wins. I hear you on the reasons, but the guy wins, wherever he goes. That says a lot. The Bucks could do a lot worse if he was their choice.

I mean, people can complain, but you don't win almost 1,100 games by not being good at in-game strategy.

and this isn't a shot at you, Aziu, or anyone. I'm just saying the guy is a winner. Period.

[Nekov]

1096-763   .590

9th all-time in wins. I hear you on the reasons, but the guy wins, wherever he goes. That says a lot. The Bucks could do a lot worse if he was their choice.

I mean, people can complain, but you don't win almost 1,100 games by not being good at in-game strategy.

and this isn't a shot at you, Aziu, or anyone. I'm just saying the guy is a winner. Period.

The season win record means nothing if you are going for the championship. As others have pointed out, his performance in the playoffs is not good. I'm not sure he is the guy the bucks need.

[King Postwhore]

WHY NOT DOC?

What is all the hate for this guy? All he does is win.

Doc is a good motivator for young, struggling teams... but many of his former players had said that only lasted for a couple of seasons wherever he goes before he keeps repeating the same old things. Worst of all, what turned people off was his lack of in-game strategy adjustments. Don't forget he is #1 in blowing 3-1 playoff series leads as a coach. And even until his recent gig in Philly, all he ever really did was keep milking his 2008 championship with the Cs.

That's weird. He worked well with Pierce,  Garnet & Allen. All very opinionated veterans. They all look upon him fondly.

[Samsara]

WHY NOT DOC?

What is all the hate for this guy? All he does is win.

Doc is a good motivator for young, struggling teams... but many of his former players had said that only lasted for a couple of seasons wherever he goes before he keeps repeating the same old things. Worst of all, what turned people off was his lack of in-game strategy adjustments. Don't forget he is #1 in blowing 3-1 playoff series leads as a coach. And even until his recent gig in Philly, all he ever really did was keep milking his 2008 championship with the Cs.

That's weird. He worked well with Pierce,  Garnet & Allen. All very opinionated veterans. They all look upon him fondly.

Agreed. To be honest, I think it's a false narrative. The man won a championship with three veterans. He was able to balance egos (which Pierce and Allen had), and mentored Rondo. I think the Bucks made a very wise choice, and I expect them, if healthy, to battle the Celtics for the East crown, with Philly of course being in that mix. The Knicks and Heat likely too.

Great get by the Bucks.

[Azyiu]

Doc is well-liked by superstars, I will give you that... likely because he lets them do what they want. He is a player's coach. That being said, I still stand by how I feel about his coaching and hope that I am completely wrong.

[Samsara]

Excited for 4 p.m. Pacific today, when the reserves are announced. The Wolves, being the best in the West, I really feel they should have at least two representatives. Anthony Edwards should be a shoe-in. But I truly believe both Rudy Gobert (DPOY right now) and Karl Towns should get in too. But there are so many legitimate guys who will probably get picked before those two. Fingers crossed though. Having three would be a first for the franchise. Again, doubtful that happens, I expect TWO, but man, the three would be sweet.

[Samsara]

Happy for Towns and Edwards. Well deserved nods.

The snubs were bad though. Fox, Sabonis, and Gobert all deserve it, big time.

I think the NBA should allow 15 per conference. After all, the active roster for each NBA team in the regular season is 15 players. Why can't each conference's all star team carry 15?

[crazy climber dude]

I think the NBA should allow 15 per conference. After all, the active roster for each NBA team in the regular season is 15 players. Why can't each conference's all star team carry 15?

Devil's Advocate would suggest....it's because it would take away minutes from the marquis players the casual NBA fans want to watch. It's the All STAR Game....not the All DESERVING Game.

Though I agree there are deserving players who might feel honored to be selected. But I wonder if you told those players ahead of time they might only play 8 minutes or something like that (the deep bench players on a 15 man rarely play THAT much)....would they still want to be a part of that....or go on a trip to the beach somewhere? Looks good on a resume, I suppose....and leverage for an agent/future contract.

[Samsara]

I don't agree. If you have 15 per side, it means you can trot a few guys out just for a couple minutes, and give them the recognition. It won't hurt the star power of the game. All these guys are stars. So expanding the rosters to 15 each enables a wider array of players to be spotlighted, which in turn, even further shines the light on the NBA from a global perspective. Easy change, all positive.

Congrats to the coach and coaching staff of my Timberwolves, who will coach the Western Conference team. Chris Finch is just a dynamite guy, and outstanding coach. Really happy for them. In some ways, it's even more of an honor for coaching staffs, as they tend to go unnoticed. So proud of this team. In all my years as a Timberwolves fan (since the very beginning), this is by far the best team we've ever had. Regardless of whether we reach the mountaintop or not, I'm thoroughly enjoying this.

[T-ski]

Doc Rivers has been the coach of the Bucks for a week and will be the East All-Star coach. LOL.

[Samsara]

Doc Rivers has been the coach of the Bucks for a week and will be the East All-Star coach. LOL.

I thought it was just his staff, not him.