The NBA 2023-2024 thread - and Guns and Rose

[Indiscipline]

Absolutely widening.

[TAC]

Absolutely widening.

Are the Euro courts the same size?

[Indiscipline]

I think NBA courts are like a foot longer but maybe just one inch wider. Plus, the 3p line here is closer to the hoop.

[TAC]

are like a foot longer but maybe just one inch wider

Wait..we still talking about court size, right?

[Indiscipline]

Court?

Jokes aside, let's picture Giannis, Wemba and Kawhi on a 2-3 zone arc, arms outstretched. I'm horribly simplifying and maybe hyperbolising, but isn't the game going to either clog up or become a ridicolous range shooting contest? 

[Azyiu]

So, I watched some bits of Wemba getting his feet wet.

Assuming he won't be the last of his kind, are we ready to discuss enlarging the court?

Wemby isn't alone, and we already have Chet Holmgren at the same time. These two guys will make the center position interesting again. Also, making the court larger or even creating a 4-point line could happen in the future, I am sure of it.

Depends on what you mean by "enlarging." I'd be okay with widening it so there is more room to take the corner three. But otherwise, I'd leave it alone.

The league did make changes to the court size and such after Wilt Chamberlain entered the league, so never say never.

[King Postwhore]

The C's look great.  Their scoring is nuts but they just held the Pacers to 104 points. The Pacers in their first 3 games averaged 124 per game.

[bosk1]

Crazy ending in Dubs/Thunder last night.  I had to look up the goaltending rule, because I was right there with the Thunder fans thinking that final shot was a goaltend as well.  But according to the rule, the refs made the right call in counting the shot.  Wild way to end the game.

[bosk1]

*sigh*  Okay, so...  I saw the headline of "Draymond's headlock of Gobert headlines ejections minutes into game," and I'm thinking to myself, "Okay, I get who Draymond is, and I'm mostly okay with it, but this is indefensible.  If he put somebody in a headlock, he is just out of control now, and something needs to be done."  But then I saw it--the full clip, from several angles, and...yeah, I get it.  He would have been better served to just keep his distance from that fight.  But once he saw Gobert put his arm around Klay's neck, he felt like it was his job to jump in and defend his guy.  It's not unlike where a QB gets hit dirty and gets into it, and one of his linemen comes in and decks the guy to protect his QB.  It get it.  I think what was going on was that Gobert was just trying to grab Klay to pull Klay away from his guy, and it just looked worse than it was, so Draymond came in hot.  But Draymond should have just let go after he pulled Gobert away.  I dunno.  I've heard that Gobert is a dirty player, so maybe I'm giving him too much of the benefit of the doubt.  But I haven't really followed him or any teams he has been on, so maybe not.  In any case, it's a shame guys had to get ejected.  I don't think any punches were thrown, at least not that I saw, so I kinda wish the rule was that they could get a tech and a warning or something, and then maybe a 2-game suspension if it escalages to punches or they get into it again later in the game.  Looks like fights broke out in at least 2 other games tonight too.  Strange.

[Azyiu]

*sigh*  Okay, so...  I saw the headline of "Draymond's headlock of Gobert headlines ejections minutes into game," and I'm thinking to myself, "Okay, I get who Draymond is, and I'm mostly okay with it, but this is indefensible.  If he put somebody in a headlock, he is just out of control now, and something needs to be done."  But then I saw it--the full clip, from several angles, and...yeah, I get it.  He would have been better served to just keep his distance from that fight.  But once he saw Gobert put his arm around Klay's neck, he felt like it was his job to jump in and defend his guy.  It's not unlike where a QB gets hit dirty and gets into it, and one of his linemen comes in and decks the guy to protect his QB.  It get it.  I think what was going on was that Gobert was just trying to grab Klay to pull Klay away from his guy, and it just looked worse than it was, so Draymond came in hot.  But Draymond should have just let go after he pulled Gobert away.  I dunno.  I've heard that Gobert is a dirty player, so maybe I'm giving him too much of the benefit of the doubt.  But I haven't really followed him or any teams he has been on, so maybe not.  In any case, it's a shame guys had to get ejected.  I don't think any punches were thrown, at least not that I saw, so I kinda wish the rule was that they could get a tech and a warning or something, and then maybe a 2-game suspension if it escalages to punches or they get into it again later in the game.  Looks like fights broke out in at least 2 other games tonight too.  Strange.

You didn't really mention Jaden McDaniels who started the whole thing, IMHO. He wasn't even playing to guard Klay, if you watch that whole play from the beginning. I think Klay shouldn't have been ejected. Both Klay and Gobert should have been given a T each. McDaniels and Draymond is another story. I can see Draymond getting at least a one-game suspension. Time flies, we are on the eve of the 19th anniversary of the infamous Malice at the Palace.

[KevShmev]

I am guessing that whomever wrote the headline about Green's "headlock" doesn't know what a headlock is, because that is a chokehold he put on Gobert. I doubt he applied much pressure to try to "choke him out" per se, but I am guessing that is why Gobert went limp and just looked around like WTF.  He knew a nutjob like Green probably would have choked him out had he fought back and he was in a vulnerable position.  Most leagues would give Green 5-10 games for putting a chokehold on another player, but Silver is soft when it comes to disciplining players, so he will likely get a fine and maybe a game.

[Lonk]

Looking at the video, there's a lot happening there, but it was started with Klay holding McDaniel's jersey (close to the neck as well).

[Samsara]

Looking at the video, there's a lot happening there, but it was started with Klay holding McDaniel's jersey (close to the neck as well).

This. That started the whole thing. Klay tried to hold McDaniels from sprinting back, and McDaniels tried to push Klay off him, and then they got tangled. Basically, Klay Thompson was the instigator of the whole mess, and it was compounded from that point.


bosk is INCORRECT on what Rudy Gobert was doing to Klay. If you watch, Rudy goes to put his arms around Klay and pull him back, and does, and Klay slides down, and where does that put Rudy's arms? Yes, around Klay's neck, because Klay was trying to slide out. Rudy was only trying to keep them apart. Then Draymond, as he always does, comes charging in and headlocks Gobert. Gobert is 7'1", Draymond is 6'8", 6'9." So Dray isn't just trying to pull Rudy away, he's making an effort to grab the guy (and does, successfully) around his head, and then yank him. He could have easily grabbed his waist. He didn't.

Rudy Gobert can be dirty. I hate that about him. He's kicked guys in the nuts before, and I have little respect for that. But Draymond Green? Bosk, I know its your team and all, but he is one of the dirtiest players in the league. EVERYONE knows this, except most Warriors fans try to deny it. Green even started an almost fight with Donovan Mitchell a few games prior.

The bottom line is:

Klay started the whole thing, because the Ws tried (unsuccessfully) to physically intimidate (and verbally) the Wolves in gm 1 and got beat. So gm. 2, they tried with Jaden McDaniels (the Wolves best defender), and Jaden took the bait. Should Rudy have grabbed Klay? No, he shouldn't have. I'll give that. But Draymond just escalates everything with his ridiculousness.

Glad he got tossed for 5 games. The guy is worthless. He was once a great defender and good ball distributor. Nowadays, he's an average (to slightly above average) defender, and worthless on offense, and slow. the Warriors need a lot of help for Steph if they want to contend. They are slow. They need help.

Timberwolves got their streak snapped in PHX, which I fully expected. Lifeless and flat from the tip. We'll see how they do in New Orleans. But I'm encouraged by what I've seen. Edwards has taken a leap, KAT has figured it out, Gobert playing like the DPOtY, and we're deep and athletic. I like the Wolves' chances in the West.

It'll be interesting to see if the Lakers get Lavine. I could see them trading Reaves, Russell, and Hachimura, to the Bulls for Lavine and Caruso. It can't happen yet though, because of signing restrictions.

Lake show lineup:

C - Davis
PF - Lebron
SF - Reddish
SG - Lavine
PG - Caruso

C2 - Hayes
PF2 - Wood
SF2 - Vanderbilt/Christie (Vando is a PF, not an offensive player, but, he'd be good in a big lineup)
SG2 - Christie
PG2 - Vincent

>>>That starting lineup is solid. I'd say they are nine deep, which is all you want to run anyway, really. Time will tell.

West is going to be a bloody battle throughout the season. So much parity and talent. It's good for the game. East is almost at the same level too, honestly.

Big questions for me -- will the Clips and Bucks figure it out? I think they will. Are the Heat "done?" Could be. How effective will the big 3 be in Phoenix? Will the Knicks stand pat with what they have, and challenge Boston? Do my Timberwolves have what they need to come out of the West (I think they do, but they still need to mature a little).

Oh, and OKC -- if other teams falter, they are sneaky good, and sneaky deep.

Such a great time to be an NBA fan. I don't like what the game has become, but the parity is awesome. Only going to get better. Look at what Houston is doing. (F Brooks though. Almost a big a thug as Draymond Green.)

[SoundscapeMN]

the Wolves have a long history of struggling with Phoenix. Maybe not as much in recent years, but back in the 90's especially, they were never able to beat them.

Also Melvin Booker seems to have their number.

[KevShmev]

Adam Silver is partially to blame for Green's behavior getting more out of hand. He is too soft on the players now. Stern would have come down really hard before now, and he likely would have given Green at least half a season for putting a guy in a chokehold on the court and dragging him backwards.  It's like when you have parents who are not strict at all. You know you can get away with more, and even when you get punished, it's a slap on the wrist (which 5 games for something like this is in reality).   With a strict parent (or strict commish like Stern), you watch yourself a little more.  Granted, a dirty player with hyper-aggressive tendencies like Green is always going to act out because that's who he is (the old "when someone shows you who they are, believe them," and Green repeatedly shows us who he is), but his acting out might be a tad less frequent if Stern will still in charge.  Under Silver, it's Hell in a Cell where "anything" goes (in a sense).

[King Postwhore]

There was a lot more violence in the David Stern era compared to today.  I miss the violence in the game honestly.  Teams hated each other. 

[KevShmev]

There was a lot more violence in the David Stern era compared to today.  I miss the violence in the game honestly.  Teams hated each other.

In the 80s, for sure.  It felt like the ultraviolence toned down once the 90s rolled around.  Not like that game still wasn't physical, but you didn't really see stuff like McHale clotheslining Rambis or Parish clobbering Laimbeer in the face again.  The brawl in Detroit went a long way as well in Stern clamping down on players being too aggressive on the court.

[King Postwhore]

I would say I'm the mid 2000's it changed. Remember the Mallice at the Palice?

[Cool Chris]

It changed even before that with the Kermit Washington/Rudy Tomjanovich incident. Someone, maybe it was Stern, said that after that happened, the top brass realized these guys were too big and too strong, and could literally kill someone on the court if they let things go far enough.

[Indiscipline]

I seem to remember Stern turning drastically the screws after witnessing (with quite the horrified look caught by the cameras) in person at MSG a furious brawl between Bulls and Knicks in the early nineties.

[crazy climber dude]

There was a lot more violence in the David Stern era compared to today.  I miss the violence in the game honestly.  Teams hated each other.

In the 80s, for sure.  It felt like the ultraviolence toned down once the 90s rolled around.  Not like that game still wasn't physical, but you didn't really see stuff like McHale clotheslining Rambis or Parish clobbering Laimbeer in the face again.  The brawl in Detroit went a long way as well in Stern clamping down on players being too aggressive on the court.

Don't forget Karl Malone doing his best UFC impression. Elbowing Isiah Thomas coming down the lane....required 40 stitches on the face. Malone was ejected....but only suspended for one game. That was in 1991, so it didn't tone down too much at that point.

[Samsara]

FIRST PLACE Minnesota Timberwolves. Come at me bro. 

[Lonk]

My guy Green 

[King Postwhore]

FIRST PLACE Minnesota Timberwolves. Come at me bro. 

The Bruh says, equils!  *Fist pump*

[TheOutlawXanadu]

There was a lot more violence in the David Stern era compared to today.  I miss the violence in the game honestly.  Teams hated each other. 

I'm not sure I miss it but I do agree that, in general, the violence in the game is trending downward. Certainly since the 70s, it's gone way down. Perhaps we're in the midst of a very brief spike right now due to Draymond losing his marbles, but blips do happen.

[Samsara]

I miss hard defensive play. I miss being able to body a guy driving the lane. I miss hand checking. Yes, free flow play has made the game more palatable for those who have short attention spans and have to constantly see things fast. But I miss half-court offense and good defense.

I could live without violence (we don't need Draymond Green's antics), but do miss the game as it used to be.

Green is a thug. I've said on this forum for as long as I can remember that he's a dirty player, and nowhere near as good as he thinks he is. People say this clown is a HOFer. I find that laughable. In his entire career, he's been on the backs of superior talent riding that talent to championships. Sure, he facilitated offense and played good defense. But he's nowhere near HOF worthy, IMO. The guys who play Green's role on the Warriors are good defenders who are starting, but literally can't do anything without stars. When Klay and Steph were hurt, Green was exposed as not being nearly as good as he claimed he was. Hopefully, the NBA tosses this clown for the remainder of the season. They won't, but they should.

[crazy climber dude]

Hopefully, the NBA tosses this clown for the remainder of the season. They won't, but they should.

....and they didn't. 

[TheOutlawXanadu]

I miss hard defensive play. I miss being able to body a guy driving the lane. I miss hand checking. Yes, free flow play has made the game more palatable for those who have short attention spans and have to constantly see things fast. But I miss half-court offense and good defense.

I could live without violence (we don't need Draymond Green's antics), but do miss the game as it used to be.

Green is a thug. I've said on this forum for as long as I can remember that he's a dirty player, and nowhere near as good as he thinks he is. People say this clown is a HOFer. I find that laughable. In his entire career, he's been on the backs of superior talent riding that talent to championships. Sure, he facilitated offense and played good defense. But he's nowhere near HOF worthy, IMO. The guys who play Green's role on the Warriors are good defenders who are starting, but literally can't do anything without stars. When Klay and Steph were hurt, Green was exposed as not being nearly as good as he claimed he was. Hopefully, the NBA tosses this clown for the remainder of the season. They won't, but they should.

I think the NBA found a sweet spot in terms of offense-to-defense ratio from 2009-2014 or so. Over the past few years, I think it's tipped a bit far in favor of the offense. A lot of that is due to rule changes and officiating, but I also think Steph Curry inadvertently broke the game when he showed everyone how unguardable good three-point shooting is. When you have centers like Embiid and Jokic bombing 30-foot threes... I don't know what you do against that.

[Samsara]

I think Steph's ability gave a lot of guys hope that skills like that can get them to the next level. I ultimately think Curry's special talent helped broaden the game. Sadly, because of how kids are raised these days, with many being allowed to do whatever they want, good coaching goes out the window. I was at a jr. high basketball game in 2019, and everyone shot threes from all over the place, including when people were open down low. I think coaches are afraid of parent reprisals, and they are also afraid of alienating kids if they restrict crazy shooting. obviously, this is not true in all cases, but society, and sports, have changed.

What I do think, however, is that post play has become a lost art form. I'm glad that my team is utilizing that more, and I hope the game is better balanced in the next several years.

Speaking of my team, the Timberwolves were in Boston last night on the second night of a back-to-back. I mean, we're the best in the West, but second night of a back to back in Boston? Automatic "L." Then I find out Mike Conley (our starting PG) and Rudy Gobert (our starting center and DPOY candidate) are both out. No way we're winning, even with the Celtics being without their own center, Kristaps Porzingis (their third best player).

Well...if it wasn't for some really stupid fouls and turnovers, we would have won that game. We had it. Went to OT, and the Celtics did what championship teams do -- the capitalized. Great game, even if my team was on the losing end of things.

The Cs have been my call since July to win it all, and that hasn't changed. I'm not sure the Wolves are ready yet to win the West, but the two games against the Cs this year have shown me that if they make it, and it's Wolves-Celtics in the Finals (a long way off), it is going seven games, without a doubt. They really match up well.

[Indiscipline]

Ironically, if Tatum makes both his free throws at the end of the fourth (hence no White's rebound to Al's pass to Jrue's triple in a sequence I can only describe as positively Popovichesque) I strongly believe MIN wins that game.

[TAC]

We went to the game last night. A amazing game for sure.

Ironically, if Tatum makes both his free throws at the end of the fourth (hence no White's rebound to Al's pass to Jrue's triple in a sequence I can only describe as positively Popovichesque) I strongly believe MIN wins that game.

Holiday's shot was amazing. He was missing 3's all night, but hit that one.

[Indiscipline]

Judging from the pics' angle those were great seats!

[TAC]

Judging from the pics' angle those were great seats!

They were!!!!

[Samsara]

Appreciated the text, Tim. Hope you and the fam had a blast.

[TAC]

Appreciated the text, Tim.

You're welcome! I mean, you're the biggest T-Wolves fan I know. You're the only one I know, but that's besides the point. 


That Minnesota team is freaking huge! Naz Reid is a monster!