NHL 2023-2024: Stanley Cup Finals. Edmonton Oilers vs Florida Panthers

[Kwyjibo]

But isn't the NHL itself a role model for too many teams and not enough quality until the playoffs?

And where to draw the line? Make it four and political reasons aside, Russia should be in there. And then who is left out? Finland? Or USA? And what about Czechia?

And while I agree with you that most of the european countries you mentioned won't have no chance of winning such a tournament there can always be some surprises, so to exlude them beforehand reeks a little bit of arrogance.

So maybe make it eight teams, the top six are set and the last two are determined by a small qualifying round beforehand.

[Nick]

Blues are in Detroit on Feb. 24. Just realized it's a noon game.

Haken plays Detroit that evening.

Methinks I have a day to plan.

[pg1067]

So how are all of you feeling about this idea that's been floating around in the league of a four-team (USA, Canada, Sweden, and Finland) best on best mini-tournament in 2025 which is a small launchpad to, hopefully, having NHL players in the 2026 Olympic games?

Your post is the first I've heard of it.  Would it be during the season?  If so, I think it's a bloody awful idea (I also don't like having NHL players in the Olympics in the middle of a season).

[TAC]

So how are all of you feeling about this idea that's been floating around in the league of a four-team (USA, Canada, Sweden, and Finland) best on best mini-tournament in 2025 which is a small launchpad to, hopefully, having NHL players in the 2026 Olympic games?

Your post is the first I've heard of it.  Would it be during the season?  If so, I think it's a bloody awful idea (I also don't like having NHL players in the Olympics in the middle of a season).

Same here.

[axeman90210]

A wild weekend for the Devils. Against the Blackhawks Friday night Brendan Smith knocked Bedard out early with a big, but clean hit, and the game got very chippy from there (21 total penalties in just the first two periods). We also lost Jack Hughes for an undetermined amount of time to an injury late. Then last night we came out flat and basically got caved in for the first two periods against a very good Vancouver team. Down 3-0, brought it back to 3-2, down 5-2, brought it back to 5-4. Then we got a powerplay late in the 3rd and I guess the refs were just determined not to give us a 5 on 3 powerplay no matter how egregious Vancouver got. I know the refs didn't cost us the game, we shouldn't have been down 3 goals at two different point in the game, and we still had the 5v4 powerplay we could have converted on to tie things up, but that didn't stop me from being apoplectic for a while after the final whistle last night at what didn't get called.

https://twitter.com/2much_man/status/1743828472881938567

[jingle.boy]

Yeah, that was pretty bad.

[jingle.boy]

8x$11.5M for Nylander is expected to be announced today.

Hopefully he keeps playing like a Top 5 winger in the league for at least 4 more years.

[SchecterShredder]

8x$11.5M for Nylander is expected to be announced today.

Hopefully he keeps playing like a Top 5 winger in the league for at least 4 more years.

Way too much money, in my opinion, for a 27 y/o who hasn't performed at this level until now. He's been good the past 3 seasons (including this year), but very much pedestrian the rest of his career.

Chad, what's the perception in TO: are we finally seeing the 'real' Nylander this year, or is this a very dicey looking contract?

[jingle.boy]

8x$11.5M for Nylander is expected to be announced today.

Hopefully he keeps playing like a Top 5 winger in the league for at least 4 more years.

Way too much money, in my opinion, for a 27 y/o who hasn't performed at this level until now. He's been good the past 3 seasons (including this year), but very much pedestrian the rest of his career.

Chad, what's the perception in TO: are we finally seeing the 'real' Nylander this year, or is this a very dicey looking contract?

He's been improving every year, so I don't think this is a Huberdeau situation.  In a vacuum, his play warrants it.  But as everyone will point out, these guys (Matthews, Nylander, Marner) are getting paid without having produced much of anything in April/May.  I'm not sure what options the team has.  Let him walk?  I think $11.5M is a little rich, but no one can predict the future.  Will he still be a point-per-game guy in 7-8 years?  What will the Cap look like in the 2030s?  Some players can play through the value of their deal through the back half (McDavid, Crosby, Stamkos, Panarin currently come to mind).  If he can be a 90-100 point player in 2030, then I'd guess it's justified.

[Anguyen92]

Honestly, I would have let him walk and use that space to address other needs that's been ongoing.  As I stated before, is there any other good team that has the space or need to sign a guy like Nylander (or Marner when discussions are going to happen next year) that they didn't have already?

Now I understand why Treliving cannot let Nylander walk since he already let a high-end player walk during his time with the Flames and absolutely cannot let the same thing happen again in Toronto.  That being said, I question GMs and the high-end players there on their desire to want to win in the Leafs.

[jingle.boy]

Honestly, I would have let him walk and use that space to address other needs that's been ongoing.  As I stated before, is there any other good team that has the space or need to sign a guy like Nylander (or Marner when discussions are going to happen next year) that they didn't have already?

Ok... let's play that out.  $6.9M (what he's earning now), means a $4.5M raise.  Where would you spend that $4.5M?  What players are readily available to plug whatever holes you think need plugged, and how do you replace the production he takes with him?

Let's also remember, UFA's with big salary that will NOT be coming back next year:
Klingberg - $4.1M (yes, he's on LTIR, but they hadn't 'refilled' that salary yet)
Bertuzzi - $5.5M
Samsonov - $3.5M
Brodie - $5M

That's $18M available; plus the $4M bump in cap the entire league is getting.  Also, Tavares' $11M expires end of next year, so it's really only one more year of tight cap gymnastics the team has to do.


Domi is a wild card.  I can see the team keeping him - at our around the same $3M pricetag.

[Stadler]

You're not keeping Bertuzzi?   

[jingle.boy]

You're not keeping Bertuzzi?   

I mean, unless he becomes the second coming of Cam Neely, they better not keep him.

Also, that Nylander contract is official now.

[Anguyen92]

So we have a trade today.  Cutter Gauthier (whose unsigned and is playing in the NCAA, drafted #5 overall by the Flyers in 2022) has been traded to the Ducks for Jamie Drysdale (defensemen that was drafted #6 overall in 2020) and a 2nd round pick.

So apparently, Gauthier has outright proclaimed that he did not want to sign with the Flyers.  Flyers decided to respect his wishes and moved him out and got a young Right-handed defensemen (whose had some rough luck with injuries thus far) and a 2nd round pick.  There's some soundbites out there from Keith Jones and Torts, basically saying, "If Gauthier doesn't want to be here, he's not going to be here and we're excited about Jamie Drysdale."

[Nick]

I forget who exactly it was in Torts first season, but they picked him up on waivers, was actually playing a meaningful role with decent minutes, and after a few months was like... "loooooool, I'd rather play in Europe, let's terminate this contract". And now you have a huge prospect just fucking off.

Look, Flyers have had issues, but are a pretty beloved organization from most players; they spend, they compete, they take care of their own, and have a great history. So why does this shit keep happening? It's gotta be Torts.

[romdrums]

I don’t necessarily think it’s Torts, either. Gauthier stated that he didn’t want to play in the AHL, that he wanted to go straight from college to the NHL, and the Flyers didn’t want to accommodate that. I read an nhl.com article on Torts that said the players really like him and like playing for him. Also, he really loves dogs.

https://www.nhl.com/news/flyers-john-tortorella-to-coach-1500th-nhl-game

[Anguyen92]

The guys from 32 Thoughts (Elliotte Friedman and Jeff Marek) have speculated that if there is one thing that is concrete about this situation regarding Gauthier, Torts have no impact/influence at all in Gauthier not signing with the Flyers.  It may have been the fact that the Flyers did not want to provide performance bonuses in the contract which would put them over the cap if Gauthier meets the requirements which would eat into the cap going into 24-25.

https://twitter.com/FAN590/status/1744786021596680486

[jingle.boy]

Hot damn the Sharks are a hot mess.  They looked like a Junior B team against the Leafs last night.  By the end of the 2nd period, a stat flashed up that the Leafs had almost 14 minutes of offensize zone possession; the Sharks had 5.

The Isles ought to be a tougher game, but they're in a bit of a slump as well.  Then there's a stretch of tougher teams - Avs, Oil, and Canucks in the next 10 days.  Those should be exciting games.

[jingle.boy]

Man did the Leafs lay an egg last night.  Two brutal defensive plays directly led to the tying and winning goals.  That was a very winnable game, and with the stretch of games they have up to the all-star break (Avs, Oil, Canucks and 2 vs Jets - along with Red Wings, Flames, and Kraken in between), they really should've taken 2 points.

[SchecterShredder]

Oil have a chance to set a new franchise record for consecutive wins tonight.  A win over the Habs would given them 10 straight wins. It still strikes me as odd that a team as dominant as the Oilers were for that four year stretch in the 80s never put together a 10 game win streak. As a side note, i haven't googled the longest win streaks in NHL history,  so maybe even 9 is a massive feat. This guy definitely doesn't know.

[jammindude]

Oil have a chance to set a new franchise record for consecutive wins tonight.  A win over the Habs would given them 10 straight wins. It still strikes me as odd that a team as dominant as the Oilers were for that four year stretch in the 80s never put together a 10 game win streak. As a side note, i haven't googled the longest win streaks in NHL history,  so maybe even 9 is a massive feat. This guy definitely doesn't know.

You realize that both the Oilers AND the Kraken have 9 game winning streaks going right now, right?

[jingle.boy]

Florida and Winnipeg streaks ended tonight.

And the Leafs choked out a 3-0 qst period lead. Tavares was pretty much benched the 3rd period. Horrible defensive effort by that team.

[Anguyen92]

The Kraken on a 9 game winning streak.  The Oilers on a 10 game winning streak.  Meanwhile, I'm sitting here being befuddled as the Kings have gone 0-4-4 in their last 8, thinking what the heck is the issue here?  Every loss really isn't them getting blown out.  Only two of those losses were though (against the Leafs and one of the Red Wings games).  It's like the team keeps blowing two-goal leads, or blowing leads, or the depth players just not getting the goals to seal the deal, or the goalies just not able to keep things out of the net long enough to secure the W.  Like there are solid individual performances in those Ls, but not enough of a team performance to turn those Ls to wins, if that makes sense.

[pg1067]

The Kraken on a 9 game winning streak.  The Oilers on a 10 game winning streak.  Meanwhile, I'm sitting here being befuddled as the Kings have gone 0-4-4 in their last 8, thinking what the heck is the issue here?  Every loss really isn't them getting blown out.  Only two of those losses were though (against the Leafs and one of the Red Wings games).  It's like the team keeps blowing two-goal leads, or blowing leads, or the depth players just not getting the goals to seal the deal, or the goalies just not able to keep things out of the net long enough to secure the W.  Like there are solid individual performances in those Ls, but not enough of a team performance to turn those Ls to wins, if that makes sense.

It's been frustrating as fuck.  The inability to hold a lead is obvious.  Talbot has a couple glaring weaknesses (wraparounds and breakaways - both of which involve lateral movement), but he's been getting hung dry by the defense - particularly on a couple goals yesterday.

[jingle.boy]

After the Leafs blew the game against the Isles, and I saw what the rest of their schedule looked like up to the All-Star Break, I mentally figured they'd go 2-7 in that stretch, and they are not letting me down.  Another awful effort last night against a Detroit team that couldn't leave Detroit until 4pm yesterday afternoon because of the weather - they would've been better off taking a bus yesterday morning.  Puck drop got pushed by almost an hour because the team didn't get to the arena until almost 6pm.  And then Kane goes down; and then the Leafs get 3 power plays in the first 10 minutes (which they do precisely zero with).  Playing against James Reimer who is 1-9 in his last 10 games, and has let in 5 goals or more in his last 5.  Despite the shit-ass performance, they were still up 2-1 to start the third... and for the 2nd straight game, they give up 3 goals in the 3rd.  Terrible luck on one of them that Reilly's stick snapped on a one-timer attempt, giving Sprong a breakaway from his own blue-line, but still.  What a colossal dump they took.

Now Detroit is only 1 point behind them in the standings.

So, 0-2-1 to start this stretch.  They might get a couple more loser points, but at this point, I wouldn't be surprised if they go 1-5 or even 0-6 given the caliber of teams they have ahead (Oil, Canucks, Kraken, Jets (2) ... with the Flames sprinkled in there).  5 games against 4 of the hottest teams in the league right now. 

[SchecterShredder]

I'm actually a touch worried about the Leafs coming to town tomorrow amid their slump.  I fear they'll be hungry for a win considering how the weekend went.

[jingle.boy]

I'm actually a touch worried about the Leafs coming to town tomorrow amid their slump. 

You shouldn't be.

I fear they'll be hungry for a win considering how the weekend went.

You'd think that, wouldn't you?

They should've been hungry - and able - to beat Detroit yesterday given how they'd choked away the previous 2 games, and the cluster fuck of Detroit spending the entire day in an airport ... but they come out and lay an absolute dump.

[romdrums]

Nice to see the Wings get back on the winning track after the horror show that was the month of December. Nice to see them score 3 goals in the 3rd rather than give up 3 goals in the 3rd! Should bode well going forward.

[jingle.boy]

Hey Rich... told you there was nothing to worry about.

(not so) Bold prediction ... Keefe is fired before they return home.  Why Tree gave him a 2 year extension before the season started is a mystery.  Hell, why Shanny hired Tree is a mystery ... he's proving his a pretty tit-useless GM 6 months into the job*.

The mental lapses that are delivering these collapses over the last 4 games are piling up.

*Exhibit A:
Bertuzzi has been a bust.  Boy, sure wish the Leafs had Hyman at $5.5M in stead of this lump of coal.
Klingberg was a bust - at least he got sent to Robidas Island.
Domi has been decent
Reaves was a stupid fucking signing, and ya can't even reclaim him from LTIR, because there are already 3 massive contracts on LTIR!
Samsonov has been a bust
I'm ok with the Matthews signing
Willie for $11.5x8 is bound to be a bad contract within 4 years (maybe less).  I mean, the premise to Willie for re-signing should've been "Do you want to get paid, or do you want to take a bit of a discount so we can build some necessary parts around you to truly be a Cup contender?".  Who knows whether it was Tree or Willie that chose the former.

[jammindude]

How is it the Oilers can win 11 straight games and still only be in 4th place? And the Kraken win 9 of their last 11, and still be in 6th? Is the Pacific Division just that good? No one else above us seems to be doing that great except for maybe Calgary.

[Anguyen92]

^^ Well, the Oilers and Kraken just had horrible starts while the Golden Knights and Kings had good starts.  The Flames weaved in and out in between.  At this point, though, things have evened itself out smoothly and it's pretty much anyone's spots to claim except for #1 in the Pacific (The Canucks have somehow held on to winning at a consistent rate throughout the entire season thus far).  Golden Knights are running through their injury bugs that they would normally have and the Kings would run through their usual frustratingly inconsistent play that they also would normally have in a section of the season.

[jammindude]

I suppose now that I look at it again, 4 teams (3-6th place) are only separated by 3 points. So you make a good point.

[SchecterShredder]

Hey Rich... told you there was nothing to worry about.

(not so) Bold prediction ... Keefe is fired before they return home.

I was a touch worried when they went down 2-0, but it clearly worked out 

If Keefe is done, who do you see as the replacement? Also, how much of this slump is coaching? Seems to me, and corroborated by your comments,  that the issue is more personnel. If throw that blame on Dubas and Treliving. I mean,  after how things went with Treliving in Calgary, I'm honestly not surprised things are turning south for the Leafs. 'Twas a bad hire.

[jingle.boy]

Hey Rich... told you there was nothing to worry about.

(not so) Bold prediction ... Keefe is fired before they return home.

I was a touch worried when they went down 2-0, but it clearly worked out 

If Keefe is done, who do you see as the replacement? Also, how much of this slump is coaching? Seems to me, and corroborated by your comments,  that the issue is more personnel. If throw that blame on Dubas and Treliving. I mean,  after how things went with Treliving in Calgary, I'm honestly not surprised things are turning south for the Leafs. 'Twas a bad hire.

Roster construction is for sure a problem, but they've been losing these last four games mostly on bad decision making - both in coverage, and basic execution (Brodie not touching the puck on a delayed penalty call, allowing the puck to go right to the front of the net to kickstart the Avs comeback was one of the dumbest things I've seen anyone do all year).  Those can/should be on the coach to some degree.  Keefe's choices on line rotation have been a little suspect as well - like, benching Tavares for basically the entire 3rd period against the Avs, then asking him to go out and be the 6th man for the 6-on-5 was   Putting Matthew Knies on three different lines three games in a row doesn't help a kid who's already in a bit of a funk.  Not benching/scratching Brodie who has been so awful, I'd rather have Cody Ceci back.  Both Jones and Sammy had goals given up because of bad body positioning.  I mean, it's just a smorgasbord of problems at the moment.

[SchecterShredder]

It's funny that you're longing for 2 former Leafs who are performing quite well in Edmonton lol. And that's an understatement in Hyman's case. His contract is looking almost better than Draisaitl's  right now considering his production.