NHL 2023-2024: Playoff Time. Hello Darkness.....

[jingle.boy]

That's the joke.

[Stadler]

That's the joke.

I'm no Conner Bedard when it comes to getting the humor.  Or should I say, no Gretzky. 

[pg1067]

Mario Lemieux had the best sense of humor ever!   

[jingle.boy]

Matthews is still on pace for 246G this season!

[TAC]

Matthews is still on pace for 246G this season!

Another hat trick??

[jingle.boy]

Matthews is still on pace for 246G this season!

Another hat trick??

Yes guy!

[Anguyen92]

I don't know how to feel about today's Kings game against the Canes.  They got a point in a game where they honestly didn't deserve it.  I'll take it.  That said, they got themselves in a 3-0 hole early in the game through some pretty bad errors on their end (especially when they let in TWO short-handed goals, this game).  Got leaks they need to sort out, but I would like it if they can just get off to a good start for once.

At the end of the day, the end goal for this season is for them to beat one of the Oilers or Golden Knights in a playoff series.  Anything beyond that would be dandy. 

Speaking of the Oilers, man, they probably want to avoid playing the Canucks for a good while now after starting the season 0-2.  Canucks, even though they have a tough hill to climb, if they want to make playoffs, they are getting it done so far against a team that wants to go deeper and go cup chasing.

[Stadler]

Honestly, at this point, with all the changes, I love how my Bruins are playing. 

[TAC]

Honestly, at this point, with all the changes, I love how my Bruins are playing.

I don't know. They eeked out two wins against pretty average teams. If it weren't for their goaltending, they wouldn't be 2-0.

Disappointed to see Lindholm not up to speed. He played the best two way defense I've seen for Boston since Ray Bourgue last year. I know he was hurt in the playoffs.

Lucic looks...motivated.

[Anguyen92]

The Kings finally got a win this season after their 3rd game.  Going against the Jets.  PLD gets his 1st goal as a King, fitting against his old team where fans booed him as expected due to the circumstances regarding how he left Winnipeg.  That said, this game was taken over by Trevor Moore, Phillip Danault, and Arthur Kaliyev.  I think them having a game like this gives some assurance that things are going to be ok for now for those guys despite the Arvidsson injury (which now looks like he needs surgery.....).  Talbot had what looks to be a steady as they go kind of goalie game which is what this team needs right now.  Don't think that's sustainable to have those kinds of goalie performances from a guy like Talbot, so these kinds of games needs to be wins.

Sucks for the Jets that Vilardi got injured.  Hope it's not too critical, but I've seen that story before.

[SchecterShredder]

Glad to see the Oil finally get a win. The home opener Saturday was a better game than the season opener, and they probably deserved a better fate in that outing. It was nice to see one of the tenders finally show up last night. I still think Stuart Skinner should be the starter in net this season, but I'll take a 42 save performance from Jack Campbell any night!

Leon Draisaitl becomes the Oilers franchise leader for power play goals, passing Glenn Anderson. He's only 27 years old, and already the highest scoring German born player ever. He'll only pad that lead for the remainder of his career. I think he has a good shot at making the HHOF for that stat when he's done with professional hockey even if he can't take home a Stanley.

[TAC]

Glad to see the Oil finally get a win. The home opener Saturday was a better game than the season opener, and they probably deserved a better fate in that outing. It was nice to see one of the tenders finally show up last night. I still think Stuart Skinner should be the starter in net this season, but I'll take a 42 save performance from Jack Campbell any night!

Leon Draisaitl becomes the Oilers franchise leader for power play goals, passing Glenn Anderson. He's only 27 years old, and already the highest scoring German born player ever. He'll only pad that lead for the remainder of his career. I think he has a good shot at making the HHOF for that stat when he's done with professional hockey even if he can't take home a Stanley.

Since we get Center Ice for free at the start of each season, I try and watch the Oilers when I can. I saw this game, and speaking of Draisaitl, they showed a graphic of him and McDavid against the Preds in their career, and Draisaitl's numbers were off the chart.

[jingle.boy]

Leon Draisaitl becomes the Oilers franchise leader for power play goals, passing Glenn Anderson. He's only 27 years old, and already the highest scoring German born player ever. He'll only pad that lead for the remainder of his career. I think he has a good shot at making the HHOF for that stat when he's done with professional hockey even if he can't take home a Stanley.

I'm still amazed at this - and just as amazed that it was Anderson who held the record.  How it wasn't Kurri or Gretz still baffles me.  99 had almost 600 career goals with Edm; Kurri with 474; Anderson 417.  I would never have thought Draisaitl's now 310 career goals would have such a greater PP% than the others.

And yeah... current course and speed, he's a lock for the HHOF.

[SchecterShredder]

Leon Draisaitl becomes the Oilers franchise leader for power play goals, passing Glenn Anderson. He's only 27 years old, and already the highest scoring German born player ever. He'll only pad that lead for the remainder of his career. I think he has a good shot at making the HHOF for that stat when he's done with professional hockey even if he can't take home a Stanley.

I'm still amazed at this - and just as amazed that it was Anderson who held the record.  How it wasn't Kurri or Gretz still baffles me.  99 had almost 600 career goals with Edm; Kurri with 474; Anderson 417.  I would never have thought Draisaitl's now 310 career goals would have such a greater PP% than the others.

And yeah... current course and speed, he's a lock for the HHOF.

Gretz was 3rd all time for franchise PP goals behind Anderson and Smyth. Not too surprised to see Smyth there given he had a permanent office space in front of the net.

Leon has very much benefited from playing on possibly the greatest power play in league history. 2022-23 set the record, and 2019-20 was good enough for 5th all time. I won't be surprised if they put up another top 5 this season. I was wondering if Nuge's 100pts last season was just an anomaly, but it's looking like it's going to be another strong year for him. Now if only they can stop the damn puck from going in their net....

[Anguyen92]

^^ I mean yesterday's game against the Predators is a good start in that end.  The Oilers smoked the Preds' goalies and if they do that, they don't have to worry much about goals the other way since the Preds offensive punches are not that high.

[SchecterShredder]

^^ I mean yesterday's game against the Predators is a good start in that end.  The Oilers smoked the Preds' goalies and if they do that, they don't have to worry much about goals the other way since the Preds offensive punches are not that high.

I still worry about games like last Saturday against the Canucks. Oil sent 40 pucks on the Vancouver net, and still lost because fucking Skinner had a .750 save %. Had he put up even a mediocre save % they'd have won. I don't want this to be another season where they try to outscore shitty defense/goaltending all year, only to get bounced in the 1st or 2nd round. Unless this team can miraculously re-sign Leon and Connor, their Stanley window has 3 seasons to go (including this one).

[Stadler]

Glad to see the Oil finally get a win. The home opener Saturday was a better game than the season opener, and they probably deserved a better fate in that outing. It was nice to see one of the tenders finally show up last night. I still think Stuart Skinner should be the starter in net this season, but I'll take a 42 save performance from Jack Campbell any night!

Leon Draisaitl becomes the Oilers franchise leader for power play goals, passing Glenn Anderson. He's only 27 years old, and already the highest scoring German born player ever. He'll only pad that lead for the remainder of his career. I think he has a good shot at making the HHOF for that stat when he's done with professional hockey even if he can't take home a Stanley.

Since we get Center Ice for free at the start of each season, I try and watch the Oilers when I can. I saw this game, and speaking of Draisaitl, they showed a graphic of him and McDavid against the Preds in their career, and Draisaitl's numbers were off the chart.

Draisaitl is one of my favorite players in the league.  Love watching him play.

[jingle.boy]

^^ I mean yesterday's game against the Predators is a good start in that end.  The Oilers smoked the Preds' goalies and if they do that, they don't have to worry much about goals the other way since the Preds offensive punches are not that high.

I still worry about games like last Saturday against the Canucks. Oil sent 40 pucks on the Vancouver net, and still lost because fucking Skinner had a .750 save %. Had he put up even a mediocre save % they'd have won. I don't want this to be another season where they try to outscore shitty defense/goaltending all year, only to get bounced in the 1st or 2nd round. Unless this team can miraculously re-sign Leon and Connor, their Stanley window has 3 seasons to go (including this one).

And ya gotta think, if they don't get to the finals in one or more of the next three years, one or both of them are going to think it won't happen with Edmonton.  The old definition of insanity... why would they continue to keep coming back as they get into their 30s?  Mind you, Sid and Ovi both did, and it worked out for them. 

Most in Toronto think it's the same with Matthews... if they aren't multiple time finalists or winners in the next 5 years, why would he want to stay?  The chances aren't going to get any better than the next 5 years.  Marner will stay, I think he's a Leaf for life.

[SchecterShredder]

The way i see it is Edmonton needs to be considered the best chance to win if there's any hope of resigning either McDavid or Draisaitl.  Connor knows he'll get paid top dollar, and get his stats,  in any market. He's going to want to win Stanleys.

Leafs are absolutely in the same place with Matthews. I think he walks after this contract regardless, though, to get to a US market. 

I have a similar fear about McDavid.  I don't think he wants to play in Toronto due to the circus,  but he would definitely jump at the opportunity to go to Buffalo.

[TAC]

I have a similar fear about McDavid.  I don't think he wants to play in Toronto due to the circus,  but he would definitely jump at the opportunity to go to Buffalo.

He would??  Why would you say that?
Buffalo is a hockey wasteland.

[jingle.boy]

The way i see it is Edmonton needs to be considered the best chance to win if there's any hope of resigning either McDavid or Draisaitl.  Connor knows he'll get paid top dollar, and get his stats,  in any market. He's going to want to win Stanleys.

Leafs are absolutely in the same place with Matthews. I think he walks after this contract regardless, though, to get to a US market. 

I have a similar fear about McDavid.  I don't think he wants to play in Toronto due to the circus,  but he would definitely jump at the opportunity to go to Buffalo.

I dunno about assuming Matthews leaves.  If the Leafs are winning or running up for the Cup, I can see him staying. There was an interview with nhl.com just recently where he was very “pro” staying in Toronto. If he stays a career Leaf, he could very easily go down as the best Maple Leaf in history. If that is on top of a Cup, who wouldn’t want that to be the epitaph of their career? 

[SchecterShredder]

I have a similar fear about McDavid.  I don't think he wants to play in Toronto due to the circus,  but he would definitely jump at the opportunity to go to Buffalo.

He would??  Why would you say that?
Buffalo is a hockey wasteland.

His friends and family are all in southern Ontario. Buffalo is very close.  Close enough that jingle had season seats there.

[TAC]

I have a similar fear about McDavid.  I don't think he wants to play in Toronto due to the circus,  but he would definitely jump at the opportunity to go to Buffalo.

He would??  Why would you say that?
Buffalo is a hockey wasteland.

His friends and family are all in southern Ontario. Buffalo is very close.  Close enough that jingle had season seats there.

And he'd still want to go?? 

[jingle.boy]

I have a similar fear about McDavid.  I don't think he wants to play in Toronto due to the circus,  but he would definitely jump at the opportunity to go to Buffalo.

He would??  Why would you say that?
Buffalo is a hockey wasteland.

His friends and family are all in southern Ontario. Buffalo is very close.  Close enough that jingle had season seats there.

I dunno about him “jumping” at Buffalo. I’d guess any team that is in the cusp in the next year or so is going to try and plan to have enough cap freedom to take a shot at him.

[Stadler]

^^ I mean yesterday's game against the Predators is a good start in that end.  The Oilers smoked the Preds' goalies and if they do that, they don't have to worry much about goals the other way since the Preds offensive punches are not that high.

I still worry about games like last Saturday against the Canucks. Oil sent 40 pucks on the Vancouver net, and still lost because fucking Skinner had a .750 save %. Had he put up even a mediocre save % they'd have won. I don't want this to be another season where they try to outscore shitty defense/goaltending all year, only to get bounced in the 1st or 2nd round. Unless this team can miraculously re-sign Leon and Connor, their Stanley window has 3 seasons to go (including this one).

And ya gotta think, if they don't get to the finals in one or more of the next three years, one or both of them are going to think it won't happen with Edmonton.  The old definition of insanity... why would they continue to keep coming back as they get into their 30s?  Mind you, Sid and Ovi both did, and it worked out for them. 

Most in Toronto think it's the same with Matthews... if they aren't multiple time finalists or winners in the next 5 years, why would he want to stay?  The chances aren't going to get any better than the next 5 years.  Marner will stay, I think he's a Leaf for life.

Really good players go to other teams to win champeenships.   The truly great players make THEIR team win champeenships. 

[jingle.boy]

^^ I mean yesterday's game against the Predators is a good start in that end.  The Oilers smoked the Preds' goalies and if they do that, they don't have to worry much about goals the other way since the Preds offensive punches are not that high.

I still worry about games like last Saturday against the Canucks. Oil sent 40 pucks on the Vancouver net, and still lost because fucking Skinner had a .750 save %. Had he put up even a mediocre save % they'd have won. I don't want this to be another season where they try to outscore shitty defense/goaltending all year, only to get bounced in the 1st or 2nd round. Unless this team can miraculously re-sign Leon and Connor, their Stanley window has 3 seasons to go (including this one).

And ya gotta think, if they don't get to the finals in one or more of the next three years, one or both of them are going to think it won't happen with Edmonton.  The old definition of insanity... why would they continue to keep coming back as they get into their 30s?  Mind you, Sid and Ovi both did, and it worked out for them. 

Most in Toronto think it's the same with Matthews... if they aren't multiple time finalists or winners in the next 5 years, why would he want to stay?  The chances aren't going to get any better than the next 5 years.  Marner will stay, I think he's a Leaf for life.

Really good players go to other teams to win champeenships.   The truly great players make THEIR team win champeenships.

You're thinking basketball.  By this logic, Gretzky was merely "really good" in the 90s, while the likes of Lemieux (Claude!) and Nieuwendyk were "great"

Sidney Crosby doesn't make a goalie better, or a 3rd d-pair better, or the 4th line winger better.

[Anguyen92]

If the 4th line winger ends up being with Crosby or Malkin's line, that guy actually do play better with them.  Hence the idea of this tweet (there are no actual players named Buzz Flibbet and Mark Donk sadly).



https://twitter.com/ATFulemin/status/1195861423802462209

By the way, for those that think McDavid never elevates anyone, this is Pat Maroon's stats in the 16-17 season with the Oilers.  This is the only time Maroon scored 15+ goals in a season.

[jingle.boy]

Fair enough.  A "great" / superstar player can elevate his line-mates.  I mean, what did Jake Guentzel or Bryan Rust ever do prior to skating with Sid or Geno.  Or Nick Bonnino?  I can buy in to that.

But there's still 35-40 other minutes of ice-time to fill.

In basketball, one player can make the difference, as they can/will play 80% of of game minutes.  Hockey relies much more on a complete team effort required to win.

[SchecterShredder]

Fair enough.  A "great" / superstar player can elevate his line-mates.  I mean, what did Jake Guentzel or Bryan Rust ever do prior to skating with Sid or Geno.  Or Nick Bonnino?  I can buy in to that.

But there's still 35-40 other minutes of ice-time to fill.

In basketball, one player can make the difference, as they can/will play 80% of of game minutes.  Hockey relies much more on a complete team effort required to win.

This all day long. Kobe sometimes played the ENTIRE game

[Stadler]

Fair enough.  A "great" / superstar player can elevate his line-mates.  I mean, what did Jake Guentzel or Bryan Rust ever do prior to skating with Sid or Geno.  Or Nick Bonnino?  I can buy in to that.

But there's still 35-40 other minutes of ice-time to fill.

In basketball, one player can make the difference, as they can/will play 80% of of game minutes.  Hockey relies much more on a complete team effort required to win.

No doubt, but you watch Florida and the way Tkachuk literally lifted that team on his back.   And while I agree, "championships" is the only metric that matters, that Gretzky didn't win one in the '90s doesn't mean that they didn't play way beyond where they SHOULD have. Messier is another example in New York.

Yes, you need each player to carry their water, but if a Messier or Gretzky can take away two shots a period that would otherwise get to the goaltender, for example, or take a shot or two more a period than would have been taken, that's a big difference over a course of a season.

[jingle.boy]

Fair enough.  A "great" / superstar player can elevate his line-mates.  I mean, what did Jake Guentzel or Bryan Rust ever do prior to skating with Sid or Geno.  Or Nick Bonnino?  I can buy in to that.

But there's still 35-40 other minutes of ice-time to fill.

In basketball, one player can make the difference, as they can/will play 80% of of game minutes.  Hockey relies much more on a complete team effort required to win.

No doubt, but you watch Florida and the way Tkachuk literally lifted that team on his back.   And while I agree, "championships" is the only metric that matters, that Gretzky didn't win one in the '90s doesn't mean that they didn't play way beyond where they SHOULD have. Messier is another example in New York.

Yes, you need each player to carry their water, but if a Messier or Gretzky can take away two shots a period that would otherwise get to the goaltender, for example, or take a shot or two more a period than would have been taken, that's a big difference over a course of a season.

re: Florida... I wouldn't minimize the contributions of players like Bobs, Montour, Goudas.  It was a total team effort, Tkachuck was in the right place / right time for those OT winners.

On the other points, you aren't wrong, but there are a lot of other variables.  Sure, Gretz takes away a shot or two, but then McSorley takes a crucial penalty that leads to a PPG winner.

As you like to say, I think we're more in sync than we're not.  I just don't think it's entirely cut and dry to suggest if a single player can't elevate his team to a championship, he can't be considered "great", and that individual players (in hockey) can do that.  The goalie is the only player on the ice for an entire game, and the only player that can conceivably do that for a game or a handful of games.

[romdrums]

Fair enough.  A "great" / superstar player can elevate his line-mates.  I mean, what did Jake Guentzel or Bryan Rust ever do prior to skating with Sid or Geno.  Or Nick Bonnino?  I can buy in to that.

But there's still 35-40 other minutes of ice-time to fill.

In basketball, one player can make the difference, as they can/will play 80% of of game minutes.  Hockey relies much more on a complete team effort required to win.

No doubt, but you watch Florida and the way Tkachuk literally lifted that team on his back.   And while I agree, "championships" is the only metric that matters, that Gretzky didn't win one in the '90s doesn't mean that they didn't play way beyond where they SHOULD have. Messier is another example in New York.

Yes, you need each player to carry their water, but if a Messier or Gretzky can take away two shots a period that would otherwise get to the goaltender, for example, or take a shot or two more a period than would have been taken, that's a big difference over a course of a season.

re: Florida... I wouldn't minimize the contributions of players like Bobs, Montour, Goudas.  It was a total team effort, Tkachuck was in the right place / right time for those OT winners.

On the other points, you aren't wrong, but there are a lot of other variables.  Sure, Gretz takes away a shot or two, but then McSorley takes a crucial penalty that leads to a PPG winner.

As you like to say, I think we're more in sync than we're not.  I just don't think it's entirely cut and dry to suggest if a single player can't elevate his team to a championship, he can't be considered "great", and that individual players (in hockey) can do that.  The goalie is the only player on the ice for an entire game, and the only player that can conceivably do that for a game or a handful of games.

JS Giguere in the 2003 playoffs being a great example of that, same with Patrick Roy in 93.

[Stadler]

Fair enough.  A "great" / superstar player can elevate his line-mates.  I mean, what did Jake Guentzel or Bryan Rust ever do prior to skating with Sid or Geno.  Or Nick Bonnino?  I can buy in to that.

But there's still 35-40 other minutes of ice-time to fill.

In basketball, one player can make the difference, as they can/will play 80% of of game minutes.  Hockey relies much more on a complete team effort required to win.

No doubt, but you watch Florida and the way Tkachuk literally lifted that team on his back.   And while I agree, "championships" is the only metric that matters, that Gretzky didn't win one in the '90s doesn't mean that they didn't play way beyond where they SHOULD have. Messier is another example in New York.

Yes, you need each player to carry their water, but if a Messier or Gretzky can take away two shots a period that would otherwise get to the goaltender, for example, or take a shot or two more a period than would have been taken, that's a big difference over a course of a season.

re: Florida... I wouldn't minimize the contributions of players like Bobs, Montour, Goudas.  It was a total team effort, Tkachuck was in the right place / right time for those OT winners.

On the other points, you aren't wrong, but there are a lot of other variables.  Sure, Gretz takes away a shot or two, but then McSorley takes a crucial penalty that leads to a PPG winner.

As you like to say, I think we're more in sync than we're not.  I just don't think it's entirely cut and dry to suggest if a single player can't elevate his team to a championship, he can't be considered "great", and that individual players (in hockey) can do that.  The goalie is the only player on the ice for an entire game, and the only player that can conceivably do that for a game or a handful of games.

Maybe, and I do think we're more in sync than not, but I'm also a BIG clubhouse guy.  Gudas played out his ass, no doubt, but I think at the end of the day it was more likely Tkachuk that influenced Gudas to step up, than either the other way around, or the random fact that they both just happened to peak at the same time.  Gudas was hurt, too, and watching Tkachuk leave everything on the ice is a huge motivator.

[jingle.boy]

Ehhhh ... the injury factor applies to almost every winning cup winning team.  Leon a couple playoffs ago; Someone on Tampa was playing with a broken leg a few seasons back.  Kadri with a broken hand when the Avs won (and still scoring in the game clinching victory).

@Rom... exactly.  Hextall in '87 was absolutely unreal against a stacked Oil team who were not to be denied after shitting the bed the previous year.  Quick in '12 - 12-4 with a .946 SV%. 

[jingle.boy]

Apparently the Leafs think it's still pre-season.  2 goals in 2 games.  Oof.