Why PMU ???

[cramx3]

Has anyone mentioned that the video is a heavily edited version of the song?  There's no way Pull Me Under would have been a hit at full length, but cut out some of the repeats and get us to that juicy chorus a bit faster, and I can understand mainstream actually liking it.

The video, and that version of the song, is what became a hit.

Being that I was too young to experience this in real time, I did not take that into consideration but that makes a lot of sense.

[TAC]

So, I have to be honest. I don't ever remember it being...a hit. I mean, I know they did a video for it, and I saw it on Headbanger's Ball, not that I was watching a lot of that during this time, but I can't say I ever heard it on the radio. Our local radio station in Providence even had a a DJ, Dr. Metal (who died in the Station Nightclub fire..), in the liner notes for I&W. And even still, I never heard it.

[hefdaddy42]

So, I have to be honest. I don't ever remember it being...a hit. I mean, I know they did a video for it, and I saw it on Headbanger's Ball, not that I was watching a lot of that during this time, but I can't say I ever heard it on the radio. Our local radio station in Providence even had a a DJ, Dr. Metal (who died in the Station Nightclub fire..), in the liner notes for I&W. And even still, I never heard it.

"Hit" is definitely a loose interpretation.  I don't think it charted on the Billboard Top 100, or anything.

But it definitely got plenty of play on MTV and lots of rock stations around the country.  It's the closest thing to a "hit" that DT ever had.

[TAC]

So, I have to be honest. I don't ever remember it being...a hit. I mean, I know they did a video for it, and I saw it on Headbanger's Ball, not that I was watching a lot of that during this time, but I can't say I ever heard it on the radio. Our local radio station in Providence even had a a DJ, Dr. Metal (who died in the Station Nightclub fire..), in the liner notes for I&W. And even still, I never heard it.

"Hit" is definitely a loose interpretation.  I don't think it charted on the Billboard Top 100, or anything.

But it definitely got plenty of play on MTV and lots of rock stations around the country.  It's the closest thing to a "hit" that DT ever had.

I get that, but other than making a video, it still never even blipped that I can remember.

[pg1067]

PMU was a "hit" only in that it was fairly successful for a prog metal song.

PMU peaked at #10 on the U.S. Billboard Hot Mainstream Rock Tracks chart.  This is not the same thing as the Billboard Hot 100.

It was never certified Gold or Platinum by the RIAA (and did not receive any similar certification in any other country).  That hardly surprising because fans of this sort of music didn't buy singles; they bought albums.  I&W did achieve Gold certification, but not until February 1995.

PMU was played on the same sorts of rock stations that played Queensryche, which were dwindling by the time PMU was released.  The station I listened to played the full version of the song.  I can barely remember seeing it on MTV, but I do recall the edited version being very jarring.  I don't recall ever hearing the edited version on the radio.  Frankly, once I heard it a few times on the radio, I went out and bought the album and listened to the album.

[El Barto]

There's another angle that I haven't seen mentioned here. Pull Me Under isn't really exemplary of the band or the album. I suspect there were plenty of people who heard it on the radio, thought "wow, that's great," obtained the album, heard Metropolis, and that was the end of it. It's not that I&W is a bad album, but as Orbert pointed out, the radio edit of PMU is remarkably accessible which is something that can't be said about pretty much everything after it. PMU grabbed people's attention, and the musicians and music snobs latched onto them. Everybody else moved on to things easier to get into. Even when it was new that was the knock against them down here. From there they kind of latched onto being a "musician's band" and pressed ever onward in that niche. I've accused them of picking bad songs for singles in the past, but in the end it doesn't really matter. DT seems content to be a band that a few people like and the masses ignore. Producing a single that will give them a second greatest hit will score them some short term cred, but it won't change what they are.

[KevShmev]

There's another angle that I haven't seen mentioned here. Pull Me Under isn't really exemplary of the band or the album. I suspect there were plenty of people who heard it on the radio, thought "wow, that's great," obtained the album, heard Metropolis, and that was the end of it. It's not that I&W is a bad album, but as Orbert pointed out, the radio edit of PMU is remarkably accessible which is something that can't be said about pretty much everything after it. PMU grabbed people's attention, and the musicians and music snobs latched onto them. Everybody else moved on to things easier to get into. Even when it was new that was the knock against them down here. From there they kind of latched onto being a "musician's band" and pressed ever onward in that niche. I've accused them of picking bad songs for singles in the past, but in the end it doesn't really matter. DT seems content to be a band that a few people like and the masses ignore. Producing a single that will give them a second greatest hit will score them some short term cred, but it won't change what they are.

I remember a few guys I worked with around the time the three I&W singles were getting played all the time on the radio here in STL.  They all thought Pull Me Under was great, but thought Take the Time wasn't very good. I was the lone supporter in that small circle at work of that song, and at the time I was bit shocked that they weren't loving it since it seemed as catchy as Pull Me Under, but in retrospect, I sort of get it, as, like has been said, Pull Me Under was a bit of lightning in a bottle as far as appealing to the (hard rock/metal) masses.

[hefdaddy42]

There's another angle that I haven't seen mentioned here. Pull Me Under isn't really exemplary of the band or the album. I suspect there were plenty of people who heard it on the radio, thought "wow, that's great," obtained the album, heard Metropolis, and that was the end of it. It's not that I&W is a bad album, but as Orbert pointed out, the radio edit of PMU is remarkably accessible which is something that can't be said about pretty much everything after it. PMU grabbed people's attention, and the musicians and music snobs latched onto them. Everybody else moved on to things easier to get into. Even when it was new that was the knock against them down here. From there they kind of latched onto being a "musician's band" and pressed ever onward in that niche. I've accused them of picking bad songs for singles in the past, but in the end it doesn't really matter. DT seems content to be a band that a few people like and the masses ignore. Producing a single that will give them a second greatest hit will score them some short term cred, but it won't change what they are.

Good point, EB.

[bosk1]

There's another angle that I haven't seen mentioned here. Pull Me Under isn't really exemplary of the band or the album. I suspect there were plenty of people who heard it on the radio, thought "wow, that's great," obtained the album, heard Metropolis, and that was the end of it. It's not that I&W is a bad album, but as Orbert pointed out, the radio edit of PMU is remarkably accessible which is something that can't be said about pretty much everything after it. PMU grabbed people's attention, and the musicians and music snobs latched onto them. Everybody else moved on to things easier to get into. Even when it was new that was the knock against them down here. From there they kind of latched onto being a "musician's band" and pressed ever onward in that niche. I've accused them of picking bad songs for singles in the past, but in the end it doesn't really matter. DT seems content to be a band that a few people like and the masses ignore. Producing a single that will give them a second greatest hit will score them some short term cred, but it won't change what they are.

Good point, EB.

I don't disagree with the overall point, but am a bit confused by the "heard Metropolis and that was the end of it" comment.  Keep in mind that although I got Images & Words in '92/'93 after hearing PMU on radio, but I didn't buy a second album until SFAM and didn't really get into the band until that time.  I like the album, and would go through periods of intense listening, and then would shelve it for awhile, then repeat.  To me, the album was PMU and those other two songs that sounded similarly heavy and complex:  Take the Time and Metropolis.  ...and then there was a bunch of other weird stuff.  Didn't like Another Day.  Surrounded and UAGM were strange (I wasn't into the prog scene, so those didn't make sense to me), and I somehow didn't notice/get Learning To Live (although Wait for Sleep was a nice little interlude).  I don't know how others viewed it, because I didn't know anyone else back then who was into them.  But again, to me, there was this album that had 3 heavy songs that sounded like the band I liked, plus a short ballad, and then a bunch of weird stuff.  And coming out of the '80s, an album with 3 good hard songs and a good ballad, and then a bunch of filler, wasn't a bad album.

[pg1067]

I agree with Bart's general premise, but I feel like I'm the only one who had a radio station not play the "radio edit" of the song (thankfully).  But yeah...I think there were probably a fair number of people who got into the band because of the radio edit of PMU and heard stuff like Met1 and LTL and said, nah.

However, again, the notion of PMU being a "hit" is a bit of a fallacy.

[cramx3]

I agree with Bart's general premise, but I feel like I'm the only one who had a radio station not play the "radio edit" of the song (thankfully).  But yeah...I think there were probably a fair number of people who got into the band because of the radio edit of PMU and heard stuff like Met1 and LTL and said, nah.

I think this goes for a lot of bands.  People like the single, listen more and don't like the rest of the band's music.  It should be no shock that people who liked PMU from hearing it on the radio may not care for the rest of I&W. 

[Orbert]

That's all as it should be, IMO.  The lead single is chosen because it's the most accessible, the most likely to be a hit or at least get people to hear it and maybe buy the album.  Or today, when the general masses don't really buy albums anymore, they'd just check out some more songs by the band.  Pull Me Under did its job.  It got some exposure for the band, and a bunch of people bought the album.  Of those, sure, not everyone liked it.  But a sale was made and the band was exposed to some new ears.

Years ago, when Queensrÿche had "Silent Lucidity" out, my wife was asking me about it.  She was looking for it on our hard drive so she could put it on her iPod, but was confused because she finally found Queensrÿche under Prog Metal.  First, she'd never heard of Prog Metal, but she wasn't shocked that I had such a category.  But mostly she wondered why I had them filed that way when obviously "Silent Lucidity" was neither Prog nor Metal as far as she could tell.  I'm sure a lot of people picked up Empire and were a bit stunned by the rest of the album.  Maybe not "Jet City Woman" which was also pretty accessible.  My wife likes that one, too.

Same thing with "More Than Words" by Extreme.  MTV views were logged, album sales were made, but I'll betcha the rest of the album caught a lot of people by surprise.  But again, some people probably latched onto it and became Extreme fans when they otherwise wouldn't have.

[Architeuthis]

I remember hearing Take the Time on the radio back then and liking it even more than PMU.

[pg1067]

Same thing with "More Than Words" by Extreme.  MTV views were logged, album sales were made, but I'll betcha the rest of the album caught a lot of people by surprise.  But again, some people probably latched onto it and became Extreme fans when they otherwise wouldn't have.

I've never heard the rest of the album, but your implication seems to be that it's heavier/less cheesy, etc.  In that regard, I think it works both ways.  Because of More Than Words, I assumed Extreme was just another (shitty, IMO) pop "metal" band that wasn't worth my time (and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one).  If I'm not mistaken, I think I've read things to the effect that the success of that song ultimately came back to bite the band in the ass.

[El Barto]

There's another angle that I haven't seen mentioned here. Pull Me Under isn't really exemplary of the band or the album. I suspect there were plenty of people who heard it on the radio, thought "wow, that's great," obtained the album, heard Metropolis, and that was the end of it. It's not that I&W is a bad album, but as Orbert pointed out, the radio edit of PMU is remarkably accessible which is something that can't be said about pretty much everything after it. PMU grabbed people's attention, and the musicians and music snobs latched onto them. Everybody else moved on to things easier to get into. Even when it was new that was the knock against them down here. From there they kind of latched onto being a "musician's band" and pressed ever onward in that niche. I've accused them of picking bad songs for singles in the past, but in the end it doesn't really matter. DT seems content to be a band that a few people like and the masses ignore. Producing a single that will give them a second greatest hit will score them some short term cred, but it won't change what they are.

Good point, EB.

I don't disagree with the overall point, but am a bit confused by the "heard Metropolis and that was the end of it" comment.  Keep in mind that although I got Images & Words in '92/'93 after hearing PMU on radio, but I didn't buy a second album until SFAM and didn't really get into the band until that time.  I like the album, and would go through periods of intense listening, and then would shelve it for awhile, then repeat.  To me, the album was PMU and those other two songs that sounded similarly heavy and complex:  Take the Time and Metropolis.  ...and then there was a bunch of other weird stuff.  Didn't like Another Day.  Surrounded and UAGM were strange (I wasn't into the prog scene, so those didn't make sense to me), and I somehow didn't notice/get Learning To Live (although Wait for Sleep was a nice little interlude).  I don't know how others viewed it, because I didn't know anyone else back then who was into them.  But again, to me, there was this album that had 3 heavy songs that sounded like the band I liked, plus a short ballad, and then a bunch of weird stuff.  And coming out of the '80s, an album with 3 good hard songs and a good ballad, and then a bunch of filler, wasn't a bad album.

This is actually pretty close to my experience. It was ACoS that put them back onto my radar, but that was right around the time when SFaM came out, and it was the LSfNY DVD that really roped me in. In any case, you kind of summed up my point. PMU got us both to check them out, and I&W didn't really work very well for us. I think that was the case for a whole lot of people. And while it might not have been Metropolis specifically, the underlying point of the single not reflecting the album remains. Metropolis was just what I associated with the real DT, and wasn't what I was really interested in (still not, honestly).

[Orbert]

Same thing with "More Than Words" by Extreme.  MTV views were logged, album sales were made, but I'll betcha the rest of the album caught a lot of people by surprise.  But again, some people probably latched onto it and became Extreme fans when they otherwise wouldn't have.

I've never heard the rest of the album, but your implication seems to be that it's heavier/less cheesy, etc.  In that regard, I think it works both ways.  Because of More Than Words, I assumed Extreme was just another (shitty, IMO) pop "metal" band that wasn't worth my time (and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one).  If I'm not mistaken, I think I've read things to the effect that the success of that song ultimately came back to bite the band in the ass.

I was familiar with Extreme before, so I just found it all amusing.  IMO they try to be Prog Metal, but fall on the Pop side of things overall.  They do have some proggy moments, though.  I have some of their albums; they're alright.

It's not insignificant that the opening moments of the video for "More Than Words" shows them switching off their amps.  The song is a departure for them.  But I don't know if I'd say the strategy bit them in the ass.  They were exposed to new ears.  That's what bands do.  If people got pissed because they felt "fooled" by the song they heard on the radio or saw the video for, they need to open their minds a bit.  Also, the band's name is Extreme.  That could even have been a clue.

I don't remember where I saw it, but I seem to remember a behind-the-scenes video of Dream Theater and they were talking about doing a certain song or a certain kind of song, and Petrucci said something like they really couldn't do that kind of song now.  The implication was that fans wouldn't accept it.  So they're gatekeeping themselves.  I think a band should be able to release any kind of song they want.  They only thing I care about is whether it's a good song.  But I guess I can understand other people not feeling the same way.  They put on Dream Theater because they want that awesome Prog Metal experience.  Get the fuck out of here with that saxophone.

[King Postwhore]

Same thing with "More Than Words" by Extreme.  MTV views were logged, album sales were made, but I'll betcha the rest of the album caught a lot of people by surprise.  But again, some people probably latched onto it and became Extreme fans when they otherwise wouldn't have.

I've never heard the rest of the album, but your implication seems to be that it's heavier/less cheesy, etc.  In that regard, I think it works both ways.  Because of More Than Words, I assumed Extreme was just another (shitty, IMO) pop "metal" band that wasn't worth my time (and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one).  If I'm not mistaken, I think I've read things to the effect that the success of that song ultimately came back to bite the band in the ass.

Fans were really surprise by the next Album, "III Sides to Every Story."  It was a rock opera in the vein of Queen.  Loved that album and tour.

As for PMU.  It was the perfect gateway for my into the band.  I heard it and ordered the CD from the local record store.  I was looking for a Rush style band but heavier and BAM!  There they were. 

[MirrorMask]

I think Images and Words is quite accessible, in relative terms.

I mean, if you can digest Pull Me Under, you have three slow songs and a very catchy one (Take the Time), and still the rest has strong vocal melodies. Others have mentioned Silent Lucidity as an example of the oddball in the album, I don't think Pull Me Under is that "misleading", if you can get behind that, you can get behind pretty much the whole Images and Words album. It's not The Silent Man vs The Mirror, to make an extreme example with the next album.

[Stadler]

I've never heard the rest of the album, but your implication seems to be that it's heavier/less cheesy, etc.  In that regard, I think it works both ways.  Because of More Than Words, I assumed Extreme was just another (shitty, IMO) pop "metal" band that wasn't worth my time (and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one).  If I'm not mistaken, I think I've read things to the effect that the success of that song ultimately came back to bite the band in the ass.

I was familiar with Extreme before, so I just found it all amusing.  IMO they try to be Prog Metal, but fall on the Pop side of things overall.  They do have some proggy moments, though.  I have some of their albums; they're alright.

It's not insignificant that the opening moments of the video for "More Than Words" shows them switching off their amps.  The song is a departure for them.  But I don't know if I'd say the strategy bit them in the ass.  They were exposed to new ears.  That's what bands do.  If people got pissed because they felt "fooled" by the song they heard on the radio or saw the video for, they need to open their minds a bit.  Also, the band's name is Extreme.  That could even have been a clue.

If my memory serves, Extreme HAS talked about it over the years.  How that song isn't really indicative of what they do and who they are.  They've embraced it, to an extent - they've played it all three times I've seen them - but they also make sure they do the 8:00 prog section of their album-side suite from III Sides. 

(By the way, and I only flash this because I learned it not that long ago, but "Extreme" is a play on "Ex Dream", as in "Gary Cherone and Paul Geary are formerly members of the band "Dream"".)

I don't remember where I saw it, but I seem to remember a behind-the-scenes video of Dream Theater and they were talking about doing a certain song or a certain kind of song, and Petrucci said something like they really couldn't do that kind of song now.  The implication was that fans wouldn't accept it.  So they're gatekeeping themselves.  I think a band should be able to release any kind of song they want.  They only thing I care about is whether it's a good song.  But I guess I can understand other people not feeling the same way.  They put on Dream Theater because they want that awesome Prog Metal experience.  Get the fuck out of here with that saxophone.

This sort of thing bugs me.  I get it, it's a business, and in my humble opinion, the fans are not at all supportive of really stretching out, but I miss the days when bands were a mix of their various influences.  Nowadays, with all the side and special projects, you have a lot of siloing; "Oh, this is my PROG project" and "this is my METAL project" and "this is my improvisational JAZZ project".   In my opinion, I got into Dream Theater because they were the perfect blend; Pretooch sounded like a heavier Alex Lifeson, Mike was a metal drummer par excellence, we had keyboards like the best of the moire traditional prog bands, and capped off with a singer that was basically Steve Perry Version 2.0.   I liked that there didn't seem to be any gatekeeping.  Maybe there was; I didn't know much about them then, but it didn't SEEM like it.

Even when I was listening to rock/metal bands in the late 70s and early 80s, as embarrassing as some of the disco-flavored stuff that Queen, Kiss and the Stones did, it seemed - ironically, given that they were responding to a trend - pure, at least in the sense that there didn't seem to be any boundaries. 

[Orbert]

I agree.  Right after Pull Me Under abruptly ends, you get a song with soprano saxophone.  That right there tells you not to expect anything specific.  This is a band willing to take chances.  That's why it's so sad that the same band doesn't feel like they can do that anymore.  They've pigeonholed themselves.  If you want to do something different, do a solo album or side project and do whatever you want, but this band does this.

(By the way, and I only flash this because I learned it not that long ago, but "Extreme" is a play on "Ex Dream", as in "Gary Cherone and Paul Geary are formerly members of the band "Dream"".)

I didn't know that.  Cool!

[bosk1]

I think Images and Words is quite accessible, in relative terms.

I mean...kinda, I guess.  I would heavily qualify that with the "in relative terms" part of your quote.  But for a band that leans heavily into prog, that's true.  I mean, I wasn't even really familiar with prog at all, and I&W was the album that got me to start opening up to it (and, no, I don't count Queensryche as "prog metal"--they weren't, although I would agree that they had more progressive elements than more "traditional" metal bands).  And I think that's the case for a lot of people.  But there are also plenty that have heard and liked the odd DT song here and there, and many of those who bought I&W, who still don't really "get it" and don't like the band or the album overall and feel like what DT do is just "too much."

Others have mentioned Silent Lucidity as an example of the oddball in the album, I don't think Pull Me Under is that "misleading", if you can get behind that, you can get behind pretty much the whole Images and Words album. It's not The Silent Man vs The Mirror, to make an extreme example with the next album.

Yeah, that was kinda my point above.  PMU, TTT, and Metropolis, to me, are very much the same overall "type" of song, and those comprise a significant chunk of the album.  And, really, UAGM and LTL aren't too different from those three either.  I don't think PMU is atypical of the album or DT's style at all.  On the contrary, I think it is very representative, other than perhaps just being a bit more restrained and accessible than a lot of the catalog (and, of course, Derek Oliver's influence, including removing the instrumental section that would ultimately become Erotomania, helped in that regard). 

[KevShmev]

I agree.  Right after Pull Me Under abruptly ends, you get a song with soprano saxophone.  That right there tells you not to expect anything specific.  This is a band willing to take chances.  That's why it's so sad that the same band doesn't feel like they can do that anymore.  They've pigeonholed themselves.  If you want to do something different, do a solo album or side project and do whatever you want, but this band does this.
 

But they have been that way for a long time.  I cannot recall if it was Rudess or Portnoy, but LTE2 came up in an interview (shortly after the release of Scenes, I think), and he (whichever one it was) referred to Liquid Dreams as a song Dream Theater could never do.   That make me sad.

[Orbert]

Oh yeah, the quote was from many years ago.  It has been that way for a long time, which is sad.  But in a way, it reflects the way music is "consumed" these days.  People expect a certain type of "product".  Very few want to really explore music; they know what they like and that's what they want to hear.

In fact, memory being what it is (fallible, especially in my case), I might even be remembering the same quote you're referring to, but over the years it's changed to someone else saying it and the context being a little different, but it's the same idea.  Bands aren't really free to push outside the established boundaries, even if they're boundaries they themselves have set.

[El Barto]

I think Images and Words is quite accessible, in relative terms.

I mean, if you can digest Pull Me Under, you have three slow songs and a very catchy one (Take the Time), and still the rest has strong vocal melodies. Others have mentioned Silent Lucidity as an example of the oddball in the album, I don't think Pull Me Under is that "misleading", if you can get behind that, you can get behind pretty much the whole Images and Words album. It's not The Silent Man vs The Mirror, to make an extreme example with the next album.

I think PMU was a song that could appeal a lot to people who didn't want to "digest" music. The rest of it seemed to take more concentration to really get into.

[Herrick]

I was 11 when Pull Me Under was a "big hit" but I don't remember hearing that song on the radio or seeing the video on MTV throughout the 90s. I first heard of Dream Theater in 2000 or 2001.

This video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=condDYqAgZI plays a bunch of popular songs from that time and they're all recognizable to me even though I don't listen to all those bands or have the albums. If Pull Me Under was a big hit, it must've faded fast.

I remember WBAB (Herrick was hatched and still lives on the Schlong Island). What did this Fingers guy mean by "Top 10 single" at 1:16?

[Trav86]

It's a great song. Period.

[Elite]

They have been one of the hardest working bands in the business

Seems like a weird line to single out in a thread that's about something else entirely, but seriously? Not doubting that DT is a hard-working band, but a statement like this when there's literally hundreds of hard-working bands out there doesn't make sense.

[Stadler]

They have been one of the hardest working bands in the business

Seems like a weird line to single out in a thread that's about something else entirely, but seriously? Not doubting that DT is a hard-working band, but a statement like this when there's literally hundreds of hard-working bands out there doesn't make sense.

I mean, look, they're not Boston or the Axl-era Guns'n'Roses, but Cheap Trick reads that and says "hold my beer, kiddos."   Now THAT'S a hard working band.

[WilliamMunny]

They have been one of the hardest working bands in the business

Seems like a weird line to single out in a thread that's about something else entirely, but seriously? Not doubting that DT is a hard-working band, but a statement like this when there's literally hundreds of hard-working bands out there doesn't make sense.

I mean, look, they're not Boston or the Axl-era Guns'n'Roses, but Cheap Trick reads that and says "hold my beer, kiddos."   Now THAT'S a hard working band.

That, and Zander deserves mad props for that deal he made with the devil...I mean, how does he STILL sing like that at his age. Forever in awe I will be.

[Stadler]

They have been one of the hardest working bands in the business

Seems like a weird line to single out in a thread that's about something else entirely, but seriously? Not doubting that DT is a hard-working band, but a statement like this when there's literally hundreds of hard-working bands out there doesn't make sense.

I mean, look, they're not Boston or the Axl-era Guns'n'Roses, but Cheap Trick reads that and says "hold my beer, kiddos."   Now THAT'S a hard working band.

That, and Zander deserves mad props for that deal he made with the devil...I mean, how does he STILL sing like that at his age. Forever in awe I will be.

The age, but also the number of shows, and under the conditions they did them in.  I've seen them in arenas, clubs, at colleges... they literally play anywhere.

Setlist has them at about 4000 shows over the years (I know for a FACT that they are missing some; I saw them at Uconn back in the day and that's not on Setlist.fm.). Kiss, a peer, is at about 2800, and the Grateful Dead, probably the quintessential touring band, is at 2300.   Bruce Springsteen, also a touring animal, is at around 2900.   Dream Theater, for comparison (and I understand they have a decade less of touring behind them, at least) is about 1800 shows.

[Architeuthis]

They have been one of the hardest working bands in the business

Seems like a weird line to single out in a thread that's about something else entirely, but seriously? Not doubting that DT is a hard-working band, but a statement like this when there's literally hundreds of hard-working bands out there doesn't make sense.

I find it odd that you find this odd.  DT writes incredibly complex and interesting music, and you have to be extremely proficient on your instruments to pull it off. All the practice to maintain that level of playing takes a lot of discipline and focus.
Plus they have fifteen studio albums and have consistently toured the world over time after time.  So I'm sticking to my statement that you find strange.    😁

[svisser]

Honestly, I always felt that the production and package of that album got dated pretty quickly. They also all looked like they belonged in a glam metal outfit, and the triggers on the drums made it sound like they were chasing 5150 and OU812 more than the Metallica/ Pantera sound that was prevalent at the time.

I wonder if that might be why their next album had a darker and simpler production. I also find Awake a superior album, but that is just me.

[Herrick]

Honestly, I always felt that the production and package of that album got dated pretty quickly. They also all looked like they belonged in a glam metal outfit, and the triggers on the drums made it sound like they were chasing 5150 and OU812 more than the Metallica/ Pantera sound that was prevalent at the time.

I wonder if that might be why their next album had a darker and simpler production. I also find Awake a superior album, but that is just me.

The picture of them on the back of the CD made me hesitant to buy it  I didn't know anything about them at the time. I only heard one song but by the time I bought Images and Words, I had completely forgotten what that song sounded like.

[Stadler]

I bought a copy of the Images and Words book boxset, the one with the separate "Images" book.  I loved their look up to about 2007 or so.   I dug that they looked, I don't know, like eager young kids. Like they could actually live next door but oh-by-the-way, they can play their ass off their instruments.   It patently WASN'T about image, even though they were in an industry that was pretty much predicated on image.  Then the obligatory black pants, Doc Martens and black t-shirts came into play and it's been kind of stagnant ever since.  IMO. 

[pg1067]

Then the obligatory black pants, Doc Martens and black t-shirts came into play

You mean like these black pants and Docs (or the functional equivalent thereof...boots/Docs....)?  Only 40% of them were wearing black t-shirts, but the other stuff was the functional equivalent back then (no excuse for the black overalls, though).