Child Free By Choice

[Harmony]

Full disclosure - one of my adult kids has had this conversation with me.  But this was years ago and not the reason why I'm posting this poll.

I'm mostly curious as to how thoughts, beliefs, and attitudes are changing around having kids.  Maybe they aren't, but I think they are.

Mods - I debated putting this in P&R as I can see it veering into those topics so feel free to move it if you think best. 

[XJDenton]

Mods - I debated putting this in P&R as I can see it veering into those topics so feel free to move it if you think best. 

I think it merits general discussion (it's more a parenting question in my view) but if it veers towards P/R we can create an off-shoot topic.

As for me: it's their life, and I don't see any reason why its certain to be detrimental to them. There are plenty of happy people without kids and plenty of miserable shitty parents in the world, so they should go for whatever they think is best for them.

[Phoenix87x]

I will fully support my future children in any decision they make.

Criminal activity or hurting other people not included of course.

[MinistroRaven]

I choose 'None of the above - let me explain in the comments.' I firmly believe that the decision to have or not have children is an intensely personal one, and it's not my place to agree or disagree with it. As a parent, my role is to provide guidance, support, and love to my children, even as they grow into adults and make their own life choices. I trust my child to make the decisions that are best for them, and I will continue to support them in their journey. That being said, I'm always open for a conversation if they wish to discuss any aspect of their decision further. The most important thing for me is their happiness and fulfillment in life, whether that includes children or not.

[TAC]

I choose 'None of the above - let me explain in the comments.' I firmly believe that the decision to have or not have children is an intensely personal one, and it's not my place to agree or disagree with it. As a parent, my role is to provide guidance, support, and love to my children, even as they grow into adults and make their own life choices. I trust my child to make the decisions that are best for them, and I will continue to support them in their journey. That being said, I'm always open for a conversation if they wish to discuss any aspect of their decision further. The most important thing for me is their happiness and fulfillment in life, whether that includes children or not.

I chose the Full Support selection, and I agree with all of this.

[wolfking]

My parents couldn't give two shits, but they have four grandchildren already.  I think that comes into play.  If I were say an only child and came to this, it might be different but even then my parents probably would just be like, meh.

[TAC]

I never felt I needed kids in my life. Obviously I wouldn't trade my kids for anything right. I feel the same about grandchildren. It all depends on my 20 y/o and I have no idea what'll happen with him.

[pg1067]

My almost 21yo son has been saying this for years.  If my 19yo daughter has any thoughts on the subject, she hasn't shared them with me.

Obviously, it's up to them.  If I were one of those people who really wanted grandkids, I might have more in depth chats with them, but I'm really not.  I've never understood the appeal of babies (even when I had my own).  While it might be cool if I had grandkids involved in sports, I have no burning desire to re-live those years.  I guess that's a very long winded way of saying I don't so much care one way or the other.

[TAC]

My stepson and his partner have a dog, and my wife is resigned to that being it.

[Adami]

This is tough.

My wife and I very much want children and are having problems doing so. I just had surgery to better our chances and she's dealing with some stuff too. So kids are very important to us.

So if we ended up with just one kid and that kid said they never wanted children, that would be really hard for us. Ultimately we'd love and support them and respect their wishes, but it would hurt and it'd be something we'd struggle with for sure. Not to the point where we actively try to change their mind, but just on our own, it'd be a real challenge.

[Ben_Jamin]

I would not personally mind if they do not choose to want children. Maybe they might have a change of heart down the road of life, but that is not up for me to decide, it's up to them and only them.

Although, I would discuss with them about why humans have children, and the cultural reasons given for the community wanting a child to be born. But then too, it would be great if they already have a grasp of this concept and how culture does play into a humans perception for having a baby by the time they're an adult.

If I am being honest, it's a different type of discussion to be had with either your son or daughter. Because then it get's into the birthing of the term "Sperm Donor", where a man impregnates a women and the women decides to have the child, either knowing or not knowing who the father is. Thus, the man does not know that he does in fact have a child out there. This is where I would tell my son to be careful and aware If he does not want to have a child, he needs to wear protection or just get a vasectomy done, if he is that hardcore about not wanting a child.

[chknptpie]

As someone who personally has never wanted to have children, I'm on the full support bandwagon. The cost in money, time, body, mind and social life isn't worth it (for me). Whatever their reason, it's their choice.

[El Barto]

I wanted to combine "Attitudes like this will be the end of civilization as we know it" and "Good!  I wish more people felt this way!" but I can only pick one, so I'll go with the full support option. I suppose that's what I'd roll with IRL. Thankfully, since I don't have kids, it'll never come up, though.

I'm actually the very end of a big branch of the Barto family tree, going back to about 1900 or so. Neither I, my brother, nor my cousins have ever wanted kids, so that's that. And something I've noticed is that I tend to associate with the childless by choice crowd to a pretty big degree. With one exception none of my closest friends have kids, and the exception has largely lived a child-free existence as long as I've known her. Sucks when people you're close to suddenly become fundamentally different.

[Grappler]

I support it.  Initially, my wife and I did not want kids until we saw her brother raising their kids.  We felt like we were missing out on some aspect of life. 

What I think really needs to be discussed is the reverse - child free couples that don't show respect towards those with kids.  Whether it's scoffing at noisy kids in public (I used to be one of these) to people like my own brother, who choose to not have a relationship with their niece and nephew.  I used to be really awkward with kids and at time I still am when it comes to other kids, but to turn up your nose at your own immediate family is hurtful. 

[wolfking]

It kind of baffles me that parents would take exception to a decision their child makes about such a life changing decision.

I guess some parents think their kids owe them grandchildren?  Seems a pretty old school mentality if that's the case.

[lonestar]

She hasn't told me directly, but I'm sure this is my kid as well. It's her life, and decisions as huge as this are hers and hers alone to make.

[lordxizor]

There are two factors for me in my reaction:
1. Their relationship status. Being happily married makes it way easier to picture having kids. Prior to that point point, it's much more difficult to imagine life with kids.
2. Their age. I think a lot of people (women in particular) feel a pull to have kids once they reach their mid-30s or once their friends or siblings are having kids.

So basically, if they are young and single, I'd say positive things, but would be thinking "just wait and see, I bet you'll change your mind later." If they are older and in a long term relationship and are still saying they don't want kids, I'd be supportive, but would internally be disappointed, for the lack of grandchildren from that child, and because kids are amazing and it's difficult to picture a life as fulfilling for my child without children of their own.

[Dublagent66]

I'm child free by choice.  What my parents think about it, I don't really give a fuck.

[Harmony]

Well, I have to admit I am pleasantly surprised so far at the results of the poll and the responses here.

I am in the camp that initially said I didn't want kids and then changed my mind.  But that 7 years after getting married and before I got pregnant were really tough.  So much pressure was put on me (us) - almost the first question people would ask us is, "When are you having kids?"  Like it was a given.  I got even more pressure from my extended family to "carry on the family genes" and stuff like that.

And while I do hear Grappler's point about people having tolerance for noisy kids in public - we also have plenty of stories around parents making horrible choices about bringing young children to places where they have expressly been asked not to come (weddings for example) or where they are generally not well tolerated (movies, the theater, high end fine dining restaurants) so that awareness and tolerance needs to go both ways.  Time/place is important.  Also even in a family friendly atmosphere don't completely ignore your kid while they run like hellions around and get into other people's spaces.  We've all seen that too.  I think that is what drives the scoffing attitude more than anything.

So this research study looks at the growing numbers of people choosing not to have kids and the reasons why.  I thought it was interesting.

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2021/11/19/growing-share-of-childless-adults-in-u-s-dont-expect-to-ever-have-children/


Main reasons non-parents younger than age 50 don't want children seem to be in order of importance:  1) they just don't want them 2) medical reasons 3) financial reasons 4) do not have a partner 5) their age/partner's age 6) state of the world 7) climate change/environmental reasons 8) partner doesn't want to

These reasons shift a bit for people who are already parents which makes sense because at that point you really understand the physical, mental, and financial toll parenting takes on you.  In the US the way our healthcare system is set up and the growing financial burdens placed on families it appears these numbers of people remaining child free by choice will only continue to grow.

I've seen some reactions to this information as extremely alarmist - "the end of civilization as we know it" stuff and personally I can't help but see it as a good thing.  The world's resources continue to dwindle and are not finite.  I guess it depends on whether or not you want the world to implode faster or slower.   

[gmillerdrake]

I was waivering between 'full support' and 'respect but disagree'......and landed on 'I respect your decision but disagree with it'

Reason being, I think being a parent and raising kids is something we're designed to do....and while it's extremely taxing and hard at times....the 'good' FAR outweighs the bad and I think it just completes the life experience. I 100% respect folks who have decided not to have kids....my younger brother being one of them. It's a huge decision to make having kids because your life is altered in a way that's indescribable. But I personally cannot imagine not being a father.

My heart breaks for couples like Adami and his wife who are experiencing difficulties having children. My sister in law and her husband tried for 6 years and countless treatments until they finally had twins....but I saw the toll first hand it took on them. Then the flipside is you have irresponsible individuals who get pregnant on a whim and don't appreciate how special that can be. Anyway....

Should my sons decide not to have kids....I'll 'respect' it. It's their life. But I will try my best to describe or get across to them what a huge section of life they'd be missing out on.

[Grappler]

And while I do hear Grappler's point about people having tolerance for noisy kids in public - we also have plenty of stories around parents making horrible choices about bringing young children to places where they have expressly been asked not to come (weddings for example) or where they are generally not well tolerated (movies, the theater, high end fine dining restaurants) so that awareness and tolerance needs to go both ways.  Time/place is important.  Also even in a family friendly atmosphere don't completely ignore your kid while they run like hellions around and get into other people's spaces.  We've all seen that too.  I think that is what drives the scoffing attitude more than anything.

I completely agree - I wouldn't drag my kids to a place where they wouldn't be welcome or invited, like a wedding and respect the time and place for kids.  My feelings generally come from certain family members and friends who are childless and I've basically lost all contact with as they enjoy their lives and don't seem to want to keep in touch with me or my kids.

[ProfessorPeart]

Fully respect.

Neither my wife or I feel our daughter should have kids. She is just not wired that way and it would be a disaster. My son is autistic and while I think he would be a good father, he would need a good partner to help fill in the emotional blanks in his brain.

It's funny, I wanted a boy to continue my family name and the bloodline. Now, I'm of the opinion that I think things would be better if neither of my kids have kids.

With my daughter, the fear is she'll have a kid like her and she won't be able to deal and will come to us. Dealing with that once was more than enough. I don't ever want to relive the hell she put us through.

[Ben_Jamin]

Well, I have to admit I am pleasantly surprised so far at the results of the poll and the responses here.

I am in the camp that initially said I didn't want kids and then changed my mind.  But that 7 years after getting married and before I got pregnant were really tough.  So much pressure was put on me (us) - almost the first question people would ask us is, "When are you having kids?"  Like it was a given.  I got even more pressure from my extended family to "carry on the family genes" and stuff like that.

And while I do hear Grappler's point about people having tolerance for noisy kids in public - we also have plenty of stories around parents making horrible choices about bringing young children to places where they have expressly been asked not to come (weddings for example) or where they are generally not well tolerated (movies, the theater, high end fine dining restaurants) so that awareness and tolerance needs to go both ways.  Time/place is important.  Also even in a family friendly atmosphere don't completely ignore your kid while they run like hellions around and get into other people's spaces.  We've all seen that too.  I think that is what drives the scoffing attitude more than anything.

So this research study looks at the growing numbers of people choosing not to have kids and the reasons why.  I thought it was interesting.

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2021/11/19/growing-share-of-childless-adults-in-u-s-dont-expect-to-ever-have-children/


Main reasons non-parents younger than age 50 don't want children seem to be in order of importance:  1) they just don't want them 2) medical reasons 3) financial reasons 4) do not have a partner 5) their age/partner's age 6) state of the world 7) climate change/environmental reasons 8) partner doesn't want to

These reasons shift a bit for people who are already parents which makes sense because at that point you really understand the physical, mental, and financial toll parenting takes on you.  In the US the way our healthcare system is set up and the growing financial burdens placed on families it appears these numbers of people remaining child free by choice will only continue to grow.

I've seen some reactions to this information as extremely alarmist - "the end of civilization as we know it" stuff and personally I can't help but see it as a good thing.  The world's resources continue to dwindle and are not finite.  I guess it depends on whether or not you want the world to implode faster or slower.   

I find those reasonings quite sad.

It's sad how the state of our human livelihood, our lifestyle is not beneficial at all. This gives reason to why some think humans are killing ourselves.

Its a lot to do with culture, and how humans choose to live. A humans lifestyle is why there are people who lived long lives, especially in places where there was no modern medical care. I find it hilarious how some people are baffled to how these people lived long lives. Hell, some cultures didn't even celebrate birthdays, there's no record of their people's age, so when you had others coming in trying to document their age, they just assumed their age and guessed based on their physical features. If this was done to me now, I would be 21 again, because I physically look that old. Guaranteed there were people who were way older than what was recorded.

In other words, it's the lifestyle of modernity which is causing humans to shift perceptions of how they sustain themselves and how they perceive the future to be. Based on those reasons, humans think the future will be bleak, and that's something to consider when discussing the future of humanity. The future of humanity depends on us having children and thriving. If not, things will die out, and even at that, civilizations and cultures will dwindle.

Japan is currently having a population crisis. It's now to the point where people not having children is beginning to effect the cultural society, by there being not enough young people to work to help those elderly who need medical care and other various aspects that society relies upon.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/01/asia/japan-births-2022-record-low-intl-hnk/index.html

No matter what you think, the realty is, in the longer-term, having children does affect how we humans live. It's effect on how we humans run our societies can become detrimental to it's entire function and structure.

[Ben_Jamin]

And while I do hear Grappler's point about people having tolerance for noisy kids in public - we also have plenty of stories around parents making horrible choices about bringing young children to places where they have expressly been asked not to come (weddings for example) or where they are generally not well tolerated (movies, the theater, high end fine dining restaurants) so that awareness and tolerance needs to go both ways.  Time/place is important.  Also even in a family friendly atmosphere don't completely ignore your kid while they run like hellions around and get into other people's spaces.  We've all seen that too.  I think that is what drives the scoffing attitude more than anything.

I completely agree - I wouldn't drag my kids to a place where they wouldn't be welcome or invited, like a wedding and respect the time and place for kids.  My feelings generally come from certain family members and friends who are childless and I've basically lost all contact with as they enjoy their lives and don't seem to want to keep in touch with me or my kids.

Fascinating. Come to our weddings and receptions, there's kids galore because a wedding is a community event in my culture. It's not just familial, the entire community comes together. The crying, annoying, loud child could very well be the bride and grooms child. Weddings for us is a big thing we prepare for, there's also processes we follow until the time we do our "Native" weddings, that's what only matters to me, but then we also incorporate the Catholic traditions of marriage, so we can be married more than once. Then I have my other native tribes Wedding Traditions which is vastly different.

All these differences in cultures practices is why I find it difficult to lump all humans into the term "We" because "I" does not always follow the same as the collective "We".

All the culture is why I find it hilarious as well, you have some people worried about the culture and society to the point of not wanting children because of the hardships one would face due to how the current society operates. While, you have some who don't give a crap and will have kids. It's hilarious because who will be the future humans, and whose genealogy will be more present in the future?

I mean, if you want smarter people in the future and less dumb people, the wise choice would be for the smarter people to have children right?

[hefdaddy42]

Fully support.  In fact, both of my kids (27 and 20) have already let us know that they have no interest whatsoever in having kids.

And when I read in the news about all of the shitty parents doing shitty things out there, I wish more people would take this option.

[Skeever]

I guess I am the lone person who chose the "This will be the end of Civilization" option. And no, I'd never hang that guilt on any one person for their choice. But therein lies the problem. It's totally fair to not want kids, and I support it on an individual, case-by-case basis. But also, several developed nations are now facing imminent demographic collapse, and surely society is not sustainable when we've created a world where this becomes the default choice. A society without children is a culturally stagnant one. In a truly vibrant, flourishing society, there should be so many kids that the adults can  barely keep them under control. And yet, here we are. We will NEVER see any meaningful change to our society, our way of life, our culture, or anything else while we are dying society. 

[Ben_Jamin]

Fully support.  In fact, both of my kids (27 and 20) have already let us know that they have no interest whatsoever in having kids.

And when I read in the news about all of the shitty parents doing shitty things out there, I wish more people would take this option.

What you just typed made me laugh even harder. You really think shitty humans give a crap about not wanting a child? They're more than likely shitty humans, because of how society is ran, society determines them to be shitty parents because of how society functions. Yet, those non-shitty humans are afraid to have children because of how society is ran. So who's more likely to running things in the future? The children of the shitty humans who are having children.
And if they are shitty humans, then the child will let them know once they grow into an adult. Then that child raised by shitty parents may break the cycle and choose not to raise their children the way they were raised. They won't want their children to experience the same hardships as them.

This is due to humans being humans. A shitty humans will continue being a shitty human. It's not the shitty humans fault that we humans are creatures that naturally reproduce.

[Ben_Jamin]

I guess I am the lone person who chose the "This will be the end of Civilization" option. And no, I'd never hang that guilt on any one person for their choice. But therein lies the problem. It's totally fair to not want kids, and I support it on an individual, case-by-case basis. But also, several developed nations are now facing imminent demographic collapse, and surely society is not sustainable when we've created a world where this becomes the default choice. A society without children is a culturally stagnant one. In a truly vibrant, flourishing society, there should be so many kids that the adults can  barely keep them under control. And yet, here we are. We will NEVER see any meaningful change to our society, our way of life, our culture, or anything else while we are dying society.

Yes, modern society will die out because who will be there to run it all. Everything will have a detrimental effect as there are less humans available to meet the demands of the modern society.

All the pretty things we humans enjoy now won't be possible as there would not be enough humans to meet those demands. We already are experiencing what can happen when there are not enough people wanting to do the work. This is seen in the restaurant industry, as there people who don't see the stress as worth the amount they're getting paid.

[Skeever]

Yes, exactly, and you also see the consequences in our discourse, how rebuking the "zoomer" for their own values is daily trending rage-bait (see the "Quiet Quitting" thread, or anything to do with how younger people talk about sexuality/gender).

While we live in this Boomer world, the young will never have the numbers or clout to just flip us off, and do what they want to do. The trope of the flushed, unhinged, unconforming young person screaming for attention is just going to become a familiar thing as young people find it less and less possible to carve their own way of life away from cynical adults. It's only going to keep getting worse. Right now we live in a society that refuses to house young people. Society as a whole is going to be so much more cruel to future generations, as it places such an increasing level of burden on them.

[hefdaddy42]

Fully support.  In fact, both of my kids (27 and 20) have already let us know that they have no interest whatsoever in having kids.

And when I read in the news about all of the shitty parents doing shitty things out there, I wish more people would take this option.

What you just typed made me laugh even harder. You really think shitty humans give a crap about not wanting a child?

I don't think shitty humans give a crap about anything.

[Ben_Jamin]

Fully support.  In fact, both of my kids (27 and 20) have already let us know that they have no interest whatsoever in having kids.

And when I read in the news about all of the shitty parents doing shitty things out there, I wish more people would take this option.

What you just typed made me laugh even harder. You really think shitty humans give a crap about not wanting a child?

I don't think shitty humans give a crap about anything.

They do give a crap about themselves.

[King Postwhore]

I would never push my agenda on anyone. It's a person or couple's right to choose if they want children or not.

In our case, the Queen and I tried for a long time. I got lymphoma, lost a lot of money and years went by. We tried in virto twice with no luck. Then bought a house and were too tight for adoption.

We are OK now but it hurt for decades though we couldn't have children. 

[Dublagent66]

Me not wanting kids can be blamed on my dad.  I inherited all his shitty personal mannerisms and I wouldn't wish that on any offspring. 

[Stadler]

I choose 'None of the above - let me explain in the comments.' I firmly believe that the decision to have or not have children is an intensely personal one, and it's not my place to agree or disagree with it. As a parent, my role is to provide guidance, support, and love to my children, even as they grow into adults and make their own life choices. I trust my child to make the decisions that are best for them, and I will continue to support them in their journey. That being said, I'm always open for a conversation if they wish to discuss any aspect of their decision further. The most important thing for me is their happiness and fulfillment in life, whether that includes children or not.

This is me, and I chose consistent with MR.   Not my business, really, but I'm here in any capacity to support and love you. 

My son (stepson) has two children, so I'm technically a grandfather, and we love them silly, but my two daughters (one step, one biological) are both debating the child thing.   Have at it, whatever works for you (though I would not be being honest if I didn't note that if it WAS my preference, my stepdaugher's partner is about as ready to be a parent as Lonestar is to vote for Trump).

[Harmony]

And while I do hear Grappler's point about people having tolerance for noisy kids in public - we also have plenty of stories around parents making horrible choices about bringing young children to places where they have expressly been asked not to come (weddings for example) or where they are generally not well tolerated (movies, the theater, high end fine dining restaurants) so that awareness and tolerance needs to go both ways.  Time/place is important.  Also even in a family friendly atmosphere don't completely ignore your kid while they run like hellions around and get into other people's spaces.  We've all seen that too.  I think that is what drives the scoffing attitude more than anything.

I completely agree - I wouldn't drag my kids to a place where they wouldn't be welcome or invited, like a wedding and respect the time and place for kids.  My feelings generally come from certain family members and friends who are childless and I've basically lost all contact with as they enjoy their lives and don't seem to want to keep in touch with me or my kids.

Fascinating. Come to our weddings and receptions, there's kids galore because a wedding is a community event in my culture. It's not just familial, the entire community comes together. The crying, annoying, loud child could very well be the bride and grooms child. Weddings for us is a big thing we prepare for, there's also processes we follow until the time we do our "Native" weddings, that's what only matters to me, but then we also incorporate the Catholic traditions of marriage, so we can be married more than once. Then I have my other native tribes Wedding Traditions which is vastly different.

All these differences in cultures practices is why I find it difficult to lump all humans into the term "We" because "I" does not always follow the same as the collective "We".

All the culture is why I find it hilarious as well, you have some people worried about the culture and society to the point of not wanting children because of the hardships one would face due to how the current society operates. While, you have some who don't give a crap and will have kids. It's hilarious because who will be the future humans, and whose genealogy will be more present in the future?

I mean, if you want smarter people in the future and less dumb people, the wise choice would be for the smarter people to have children right?

Couple of things stood out to me in this post.  I love that your culture embraces having children at events like weddings.  But as I'm sure you know, plenty of people will expressly put in their wedding invitations that the celebration is an adults only affair.  For whatever reason, that reason should be honored even if an attending guest doesn't like it.  I'd guess at least 25% of AITA threads are about this very issue.  LoL

About the bolded part above - I'm not sure I agree with your conclusion.  I know plenty of extremely intelligent people who wind up getting pregnant without wanting to be and wind up being pretty shitty parents.  And I know plenty of people with fairly low IQ or who have learning disabilities of some sort who wind up having kids who are straight A students and go on to very successful lives.  It isn't cut and dried as your statement makes it out to be.  And IMO if I - a fairly intelligent person - were to be on fence about wanting kids, your argument would not sway me in the slightest.  I don't think children should be brought into the world with a job.  A job like 'fix my parents relationship problems' or 'ensure future generations of smart people.'