ariich's DARK TO LIGHT roulette (v8) - Post-roulette updates (ongoing)

[Buddyhunter1]

Can't complain about another 8! Glad you enjoyed it.

Final opinion: OK so you’ve somehow found a group that produces more music than King Gizzard. And not just more, but a lot more (11-12 full-length albums a year, in the years they’ve been actively producing music anyway - 46 albums in total so far). I’ve no idea how varied their stuff is from album to album and whether it gets samey after a while, all I have to go on is these three songs all from the same release.

Well, I haven't even listened to half their discography, and probably won't ever with the rate it's expanding, but I can say they do have a lot of variety. It helps that the three members hardly ever collaborate on the same release (there's only two albums that have all three of them), and since each member has their own influences and strengths, it's kinda like having three different artists rolled into one. I was originally considering sending one song by each member, but even if I did that I wouldn't be able to give you a complete picture of all the styles they've covered in a mere 20 minutes, so I instead chose to double-down on what's easily my favorite of their albums.

Keith Rankin is the one behind Transcendence Bot, and while he's on the least number of albums, he's many fans' favorite. I think he has the best sense of melody out of everyone, and his albums are usually pretty short but very well put together, with great flow and very little filler. His album before Transcendence Bot was Faith In Persona, which I don't enjoy nearly as much but is one of their most popular releases (it's the only mixtape club album on streaming services, too!). It's probably the closest sounding album to Transcendence Bot, but it's definitely poppier and has more of an emphasis on the manipulated vocal samples, so if you didn't really like those it might not be the album for you. There's also GenoMods from this year, which is a throwback to 16-bit Sega Genesis video game soundtracks, and it goes surprisingly hard.

Tech Honors probably has the most distinct style of the three members, largely because recently he's mostly ditched the vaporwave sound from earlier in the band's discography and now instead mostly creates more synthpop-oriented albums, complete with vocals. I find some of his albums to be a bit inconsistent, but he's responsible for some of the best songs in the discography. Dude knows how to write a fuckin' banger when he needs to. He's also got a lot of more spaced out, atmospheric, and piano-driven music. My favorite album of his is definitely Midnight Tangerine - it's a lovely atmospheric synthpop album.

James Webster is the member I'm probably the least familiar with, but he seems to focus on V I B E S more than the other two members, and he's probably the best at creating really evocative, detailed soundscapes. His album Monument To The Architect is a great showcase of this - it's super trippy, chill, and interesting. There's also I'll Try Living Like This which he made with Keith. It's the group's most famous album, and I definitely understand why. It's a very weird and experimental album, kind of a rough listen at first, but it's really rewarding with how detailed and creative the production is and how thick its dystopian atmosphere is.

Anyways, you'd probably want to start by listening to the rest of Transcendence Bot, which is thankfully on YouTube! If you want to buy it, the only way to do so is to sign up for their mixtape club on Bandcamp for $7 a month. That might sound bad at first, until you realize you can cancel it whenever and being in the club gives you a free download of literally all their albums except one, so if you wanted you could get 40+ albums for just seven bucks. I signed up to download Transcendence Bot and figured I'd grab a handful of their albums and maybe cancel after a month or two... I've now checked out more than just a few and I'm still happily paying monthly. If you do end up going that route, you thankfully have some recommendations above for which albums to download first!

[Sacul]

well damn, I knew you'd like these tracks, but not this much haha. that Tremors album is quite lovely and neat, I was listening to some of the songs and knew I had to send it to you.

[HOF]

Sent something better than Whitesnake! (though I do like me some Whitesnake on occasion).

[faizoff]

faizoff – Nine Inch Nails
1. Less Than
2. Satellite
3. The Day The World Went Away (Still version)
4. 14 Ghosts II

First impression: A little different to what I might have expected; a cool selection of songs that are moodier than most this round but with a nice groove to them.

Final opinion: My previous experience with NIN has been pretty mixed. Buddy successfully got me hooked on The Fragile after sending me a bunch of songs from it in my last roulette. I did revisit Downward Spiral as well, and I liked it more than I had when I originally rated it (many years earlier) but still not very much. I’ve sampled a couple of other albums and they didn’t grab me so I didn’t go any further. I know this is just a selection of individual songs from other albums but it makes me very much think I should have a proper explore of their discography. The first two, in particular, have a lot of what I liked so much about The Fragile. Moody industrial grooves, pretty melodic approach and interesting sound design. The Still version of a song I already know is pretty cool - starts kind of weird but has a great buildup in the second half. The last track is easily the least interesting but still has a cool vibe.

Score: 8.2

Nice! I was debating on what track to send from the Ghosts album, that is one track as was 24 Ghosts III. Probably should've sent this one instead. The one I sent is an early blueprint for one track on the Social Network OST. NIN's output is so varied after the Fragile, it's hard to kinda suggest anything. Though The Slip is the most straight forward among all.


I'm going to have to think what to send for Round 3, will probably send tomorrow.

[LithoJazzoSphere]

Ouch.  Oh well. 

It's only ouch in relative terms, honestly. I did like it. Just not enough!

I think I just wasn't mentally prepared to be next to last.  I went in expecting that I might struggle in Crow's, but figured since you're never lower than the middle of the pack in mine that maybe it'll also work in reverse.  But that's the fascinating asymmetry of these that taste isn't always a linear matchup.  People can score high in each other's, low in each other's, so-so in each other's, A scores high in B's roulette, but B scores low in A's roulette, etc.  I'm sure someone could crunch some fascinating data for the placements in the history of the roulettes if they had time.  And maybe this round will be an aberration, I guess we'll just have to see. 

[LithoJazzoSphere]

Sent.

[twosuitsluke]

7.9 for two songs you weren't overly into?! I'll take it. Did you watch the videos for either song out of interest?

[Evermind]

Yeah, that's fair. Let's see if I can climb back after that.

[ariich]

I think I just wasn't mentally prepared to be next to last.  I went in expecting that I might struggle in Crow's, but figured since you're never lower than the middle of the pack in mine that maybe it'll also work in reverse.  But that's the fascinating asymmetry of these that taste isn't always a linear matchup.  People can score high in each other's, low in each other's, so-so in each other's, A scores high in B's roulette, but B scores low in A's roulette, etc.  I'm sure someone could crunch some fascinating data for the placements in the history of the roulettes if they had time.

Hmm, well, I can see what you're saying to an extent, but in overall terms my scores at the start weren't great (in each of the first 3 rounds I scored in the mid-7s) and I've improved as I've started to get a bit more sense of the aspects of our tastes that overlap/intersect. Indeed after 3 rounds my ranking was right in the middle, basically like yours is right now.

There's also a bit of a difference in the competition. Apart from Glasser (only 0.1 pts above you) and soupy (0.2 pts), everyone else currently ranked higher than you overall has played in at least two of my previous roulettes, usually more. Definitely doesn't mean they can totally avoid sub-8 scores but they've had more opportunity to try things out and get a sense of what speaks to me less (or indeed more). Whereas in your roulette I've had the benefit of everyone else being equally inexperienced. That was also a particularly high scoring round which affected your placement in it despite a solid score, but like I said your overall ranking is as mine was after round 3 in your roulette.

And maybe this round will be an aberration, I guess we'll just have to see. 

Hopefully!

[King Puppies and the Acid Guppies]

I'm fairly certain I sent my round 3 submission right after my round 2. At least I think I remember doing that...

[Crow]

see ariich you have to understand, i don't learn from my mistakes or understand the host's tastes i just send the coolest music and accept my 4/10's

[ariich]

see ariich you have to understand, i don't learn from my mistakes or understand the host's tastes i just send the coolest music and accept my 4/10's

For some reason you've accidentally done really well so far this roulette.

[Luoto]

Wow, that's a great result! I admittedly focused on the lighter end of that album's songs and there's some more sparingly used harsh vocals, but overall these songs give a good idea of her range and what kinds of sounds there are. Bruises was just too good to leave out despite the use of harsh vocals

[ariich]

I've had a couple of people ask about this so I guess I'll say here that for the 20 minute time limit, I can probably accept a few seconds over especially if there's a few seconds of silence/fade out/etc at the end anyway, but I'll judge on a case-by-case basis.

[Evermind]

Question about the EP rules:

Short intro/interlude tracks that are used for flow are exempt from the rules on number of artists and the banned list - i.e. you can use any artist at all for that purpose, and it doesn't count as one of the maximum 5. It may help your flow score but won't contribute to your music quality score.

Can I use a short 6:50 outro instrumental track which would (hopefully) help my flow score but won't count as the sixth artist? The EP will still be within the 35 minutes time limit.

[ariich]

Question about the EP rules:

Short intro/interlude tracks that are used for flow are exempt from the rules on number of artists and the banned list - i.e. you can use any artist at all for that purpose, and it doesn't count as one of the maximum 5. It may help your flow score but won't contribute to your music quality score.

Can I use a short 6:50 outro instrumental track which would (hopefully) help my flow score but won't count as the sixth artist? The EP will still be within the 35 minutes time limit.

Interesting definition of the word "short". In the middle of an EP I'd probably say no because that's considerably longer than the average song length in this roulette. But as an instrumental outro (or indeed intro) that is clearly set aside as such then yes I'll accept is part of the "intro/interlude" rules, i.e. can be a banned artist, isn't one of the 5 maximum, doesn't get factored into the quality score.

[Evermind]

Interesting definition of the word "short".

I mean this is a prog metal forum after all.

I'll see if I can avoid it, but at this point of building a cohesive EP it works too damn well story-wise as an outro in my opinion, so I thought I'd ask to know if it's an option or not. The artist is also not banned, it just exceeds the "maximum 5 artists" limit.

[ReaperKK]

Great write-ups and a lot of killer tunes sent in. I'll give my open round some though and send today

[Stadler]

Wow, Whitesnake killed it!

I know right, wtf

I feel so VINDICATED!!!! 

I've been pimping Starkers In Tokyo for YEARS, now.  It's so different from the sort of "Tawny Kittaen"/"Cock Rock" that Coverdale has been selling for years. It's a guy singing with his friend on guitar, and Coverdale's voice is so smooth and silky... he sings the shit out of those songs to the point that you don't even notice the dodgy lyrics. 

It's probably my favorite of all the so-called "unplugged records".  There was a box set that had the video too, and a couple live shows with Doug Aldrich instead of Adrian Vandenberg, but the original is still the best.

[Lonk]

Won't be able to send until tomorrow afternoon or so. Sorry!

[Glasser]

Rich, you didn’t see this? My Whitesnake crying in the rain reference? My gif streak ended I guess. 

[TAC]

It was actually the first thing I thought of.

[Elite]

Sent round 3!

[ariich]

Wow, Whitesnake killed it!

I know right, wtf

I feel so VINDICATED!!!! 

Won't be able to send until tomorrow afternoon or so. Sorry!

No problem at all, a couple of days after results is absolutely fine.

Rich, you didn’t see this? My Whitesnake crying in the rain reference? My gif streak ended I guess. 

I had no idea what that was so had no comment to make.

[nick_z]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
nick_z – Meer
1. Picking Up The Pieces
2. Beehive
3. Honey

First impression: This ranges from really rather lovely to quite dramatic, all of it very engaging and elegantly produced.

Final opinion: Yep this is fantastic stuff. I mean, in a way it was a pretty safe submission like your first round. In this case it’s that emotional blend of indie, prog and pop sensibilities that tends to speak well to my tastes (thinking of things like Owel, Manchester Orchestra, a lot of The Dear Hunter’s stuff). This does a bit more to carve out its own identity than what you sent last time, though. And more to excite me. As you say, it’s adventurous in the ideas they explore and the instrumentation they use, and indeed there are aspects like the vocal interplay that are reminiscent of Pure Reason Revolution which lean a little away from the indie rock and into prog stylings. And it’s all held together with really nice melodies. Just all-round great music.

Score: 8.5

So happy you enjoyed them! As I told you, this was such a nice surprise for me in 2021. You should check out the rest of the album, when you have time. Some songs lean a little more into the "indie" vibe, but there are others that are as good and interesting (imo) as those I sent you here. In particular, "You Were a Drum" has some truly cool arrangement, and the closer "Lay It Down" is a bit more proggy (there is an instrumental break that almost feels Pain of Salvation-esque).

Sending for round #3 in a bit...

[Luoto]

Sent for R3.

[TAC]

Sent round 3!

[lonestar]

 

[LithoJazzoSphere]

Hmm, well, I can see what you're saying to an extent, but in overall terms my scores at the start weren't great (in each of the first 3 rounds I scored in the mid-7s) and I've improved as I've started to get a bit more sense of the aspects of our tastes that overlap/intersect. Indeed after 3 rounds my ranking was right in the middle, basically like yours is right now.

There's also a bit of a difference in the competition. Apart from Glasser (only 0.1 pts above you) and soupy (0.2 pts), everyone else currently ranked higher than you overall has played in at least two of my previous roulettes, usually more. Definitely doesn't mean they can totally avoid sub-8 scores but they've had more opportunity to try things out and get a sense of what speaks to me less (or indeed more). Whereas in your roulette I've had the benefit of everyone else being equally inexperienced. That was also a particularly high scoring round which affected your placement in it despite a solid score, but like I said your overall ranking is as mine was after round 3 in your roulette.

Another difference is that I'm not actually targeting your taste at this point yet, I'm just sending things I like that haven't fit in other roulettes so far.  I had something of a mental taste profile going with 425, Luke, and TAC, which seemed to work reasonably well.  I think I've been getting lucky in Tomi's with a few educated guesses, and Crow's is either so out of my wheelhouse or opposite my own preferences that I'm just chucking in the dark.  I don't have a good sense of your's yet despite skimming the V6 roulette, I feel like my preferences are easier to game than yours.  And if I'd seen your writeup for Zytecki I probably would have sent something different last round.      It might also steer me away from something I'd already tentatively picked out for later, we'll see, if I'm middle of the pack or below I might send it anyway. 

[Crow]

[TAC]

Hmm, well, I can see what you're saying to an extent, but in overall terms my scores at the start weren't great (in each of the first 3 rounds I scored in the mid-7s) and I've improved as I've started to get a bit more sense of the aspects of our tastes that overlap/intersect. Indeed after 3 rounds my ranking was right in the middle, basically like yours is right now.

There's also a bit of a difference in the competition. Apart from Glasser (only 0.1 pts above you) and soupy (0.2 pts), everyone else currently ranked higher than you overall has played in at least two of my previous roulettes, usually more. Definitely doesn't mean they can totally avoid sub-8 scores but they've had more opportunity to try things out and get a sense of what speaks to me less (or indeed more). Whereas in your roulette I've had the benefit of everyone else being equally inexperienced. That was also a particularly high scoring round which affected your placement in it despite a solid score, but like I said your overall ranking is as mine was after round 3 in your roulette.

Another difference is that I'm not actually targeting your taste at this point yet, I'm just sending things I like that haven't fit in other roulettes so far.  I had something of a mental taste profile going with 425, Luke, and TAC, which seemed to work reasonably well.  I think I've been getting lucky in Tomi's with a few educated guesses, and Crow's is either so out of my wheelhouse or opposite my own preferences that I'm just chucking in the dark.  I don't have a good sense of your's yet despite skimming the V6 roulette, I feel like my preferences are easier to game than yours.  And if I'd seen your writeup for Zytecki I probably would have sent something different last round.      It might also steer me away from something I'd already tentatively picked out for later, we'll see, if I'm middle of the pack or below I might send it anyway.

Litho, you're gonna drive yourself mad.

[wolfking]

Hmm, well, I can see what you're saying to an extent, but in overall terms my scores at the start weren't great (in each of the first 3 rounds I scored in the mid-7s) and I've improved as I've started to get a bit more sense of the aspects of our tastes that overlap/intersect. Indeed after 3 rounds my ranking was right in the middle, basically like yours is right now.

There's also a bit of a difference in the competition. Apart from Glasser (only 0.1 pts above you) and soupy (0.2 pts), everyone else currently ranked higher than you overall has played in at least two of my previous roulettes, usually more. Definitely doesn't mean they can totally avoid sub-8 scores but they've had more opportunity to try things out and get a sense of what speaks to me less (or indeed more). Whereas in your roulette I've had the benefit of everyone else being equally inexperienced. That was also a particularly high scoring round which affected your placement in it despite a solid score, but like I said your overall ranking is as mine was after round 3 in your roulette.

Another difference is that I'm not actually targeting your taste at this point yet, I'm just sending things I like that haven't fit in other roulettes so far.  I had something of a mental taste profile going with 425, Luke, and TAC, which seemed to work reasonably well.  I think I've been getting lucky in Tomi's with a few educated guesses, and Crow's is either so out of my wheelhouse or opposite my own preferences that I'm just chucking in the dark.  I don't have a good sense of your's yet despite skimming the V6 roulette, I feel like my preferences are easier to game than yours.  And if I'd seen your writeup for Zytecki I probably would have sent something different last round.      It might also steer me away from something I'd already tentatively picked out for later, we'll see, if I'm middle of the pack or below I might send it anyway.

Jesus Christ, how the fuck do you decide what to have for dinner each night?

[lonestar]

 

[King Postwhore]

 

[ariich]

Another difference is that I'm not actually targeting your taste at this point yet, I'm just sending things I like that haven't fit in other roulettes so far.  I had something of a mental taste profile going with 425, Luke, and TAC, which seemed to work reasonably well.

Ah well yeah that's an absolutely valid way to play, and it's also rather pleasing because you're not the only one who feels comfortable sending me things they would send less to others (like the way I get loads of electronica from Buddy and constant jazz from Elite ). But anyone who is decent at picking/tailoring submissions to the host's tastes (which you seem to be based on those roulettes where you've been doing that) is more likely to score a bit higher, on average. by doing so. Everyone plays slightly differently on the spectrum from stuff they like to stuff they think the host will like.

Crow's is either so out of my wheelhouse or opposite my own preferences that I'm just chucking in the dark.

In fairness we all feel a bit like that and some of us have been playing in Crows' roulettes for years.

I don't have a good sense of your's yet despite skimming the V6 roulette, I feel like my preferences are easier to game than yours.  And if I'd seen your writeup for Zytecki I probably would have sent something different last round.      It might also steer me away from something I'd already tentatively picked out for later, we'll see, if I'm middle of the pack or below I might send it anyway. 

Sure thing, like I said I'm very happy for people to lean towards focusing on the things they like that they hope will stick, and honestly there have been some great surprises that way (Evermind has tended to do best in my roulettes when sending whatever comes to mind). But no harm in identifying things I'm more or less keen on and adapting as you go.

Anyway, I think I know who the award for Most Overthinking will go to...