Flower Kings albums countdown thread! (Countdown underway)

[HOF]

Bumping this as the deadline listed in the thread title is today. I hope we have enough entrants that it goes through. If you don't find it meaningful, give me the scores and I'll happily host the countdown, no matter how many lists we have. I just want more Flower Kings talk in here. 

Agree. Looking forward to this countdown even if it’s brief and just a few contributors.

[KevShmev]

9 lists total, so I think it is fair to call this one a flop. I will run through them quickly this week, as I am not going to spend a lot of time and energy on write-ups given the limited interest.

[RoeDent]

Sigh...get into good music, people.

[Mladen]

That's a shame. I'm still looking forward to the list, though. 

[The Letter M]

Only nine lists?! Dang, I was kinda looking forward to this one. Maybe we can try again after the next TFK album comes out and more folks are talking about them?

Either way, if we aren't doing the countdown, maybe we can all just post our Top 10 or even Top 5 and discuss them here? *shrug*

-Marc.

[425]

9 lists total, so I think it is fair to call this one a flop. I will run through them quickly this week, as I am not going to spend a lot of time and energy on write-ups given the limited interest.

If it's an issue of needing more lists, I can toss mine in, even though it will be weird and not consider all albums.

If it's an issue of being concerned about participation in the discussion, I'm planning to participate either way.

[HOF]

9 lists total, so I think it is fair to call this one a flop. I will run through them quickly this week, as I am not going to spend a lot of time and energy on write-ups given the limited interest.

If it's an issue of needing more lists, I can toss mine in, even though it will be weird and not consider all albums.

If it's an issue of being concerned about participation in the discussion, I'm planning to participate either way.

Don’t see why you couldn’t submit a list with as many as you know. That’s what I did.

[KevShmev]

I appreciate the offer, 425, but I already did the quick write-ups and will knock this out this week.

I will feature three albums a day (15 total) in the countdown. 

[KevShmev]

Thanks to the very few who participated.  The top 15 is taken from the top 10 lists submitted by:

KevShmev   
RoeDent   
DTA   
BRGM   
The Letter M   
Mladen   
Zydar   
Qrusher14242   
HOF


Here are the first three...


15 Waiting for Miracles

Total Points: 7
Ranks: 10, 9, NR, 10, NR, NR, NR, 8

Kind of a bummer to see this finish last, as I feel it is definitely the best of the the recent three albums, but it is what it is. I ranked this 10th and feel it is a damn good album.


14 By Royal Decree

Total Points: 8
Ranks: NR, NR, NR, NR, NR, 7, NR, 9, 9

I don't dislike this record, but it had the shortest shelf life by far of any TFK album since I became a fan.  There are a few songs I dig, but the vast majority just felt like a blur to me.


13 Banks of Eden

Total Points: 13
Ranks: 9, NR, 9, NR, NR, 9, NR, 4, NR

I continue to be a little surprised by how much some underrate this.  It is their shortest album, but it has a great epic and then four "shorter" songs that are all winners.  Damn good record. I ranked it 9th.

[HOF]

So two of these, Waiting for Miracles and Banks of Eden, I just haven’t heard yet.

I had By Royal Decree 9th and would pretty much echo your write up. I have enjoyed it for the most part every time I’ve heard it but it just sort of runs together and not a ton stands out. I do think the first disc is a lot stronger than the second, though Evolution is one of the stronger moments on either side. A Million Stars is nice, and I like how it’s reprised on Revolution.

[Zydar]

None of these three made my Top 10, but they are all fine albums.

I must mention two of the bonus tracks on Banks Of Eden: Fireghosts and Going Up - two really great songs. Especially Fireghosts.

[425]

These are all ones that I know, although I need to spend more time with both Waiting for Miracles and By Royal Decree. These are both long albums (like so many by TFK, I guess), so I can't pretend to remember how every song goes, but I know both have tracks that I find quite strong. In particular, I like Black Flag and Miracles for America on WfM, and A Million Stars and Time the Great Healer on BRD.

Banks of Eden is one of the albums I'm most familiar with, and I really like it! Numbers is a great epic, and all four of the short songs are distinct and memorable. I particularly like Rising the Imperial, both as a standalone piece and as a reprise of Numbers. I also appreciate the fact that this album is on the shorter side. I think that I'd tentatively recommend this as a good starting point for anyone who is interested in getting into the band but is somewhat intimidated by the huge double albums, because it gives you a pretty good sense of what they're capable of in a package that you can take in more easily.

I would probably have had Banks of Eden at #3 on my list, and the other two would have been in the section for albums I haven't heard enough to judge—#7-9. If I'd done a list, I probably would have put WfM ahead of BRD, but that's quite tentative.

[Mladen]

I liked By royal decree but found it less interesting than Islands. Though I think Banks of Eden is fine, the band would in my opinion improve on it with its successor. Waiting for miracles, on the other hand, is easily my least favorite album by The Flower Kings from the ones I've heard, so I agree with its placement. 

[RoeDent]

I actually ranked all 15 of them but obviously only sent my top 10.

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9. Waiting for Miracles
10.
--------------
11.
12. Banks of Eden
13.
14.
15. By Royal Decree

Waiting for Miracles - I like this album quite a lot. Good return for the band after a 6-year hiatus. A few recurring themes lend unity to the album, and Vertigo includes one of my favourite Roine guitar solos during the extended instrumental outro. Favourite tracks: Vertigo, Wicked Old Symphony, Steampunk

By Royal Decree - My least favourite TFK album. The tracks are enjoyable enough, but there are not really any major goosebumps moments on the album at all. Nothing really stands out as a classic, which is the first ever time this has happened in my experience with the band. Favourite tracks: Blinded

Banks of Eden: While it does contain one of their greatest epics in Numbers, the rest of the album doesn't even come close to making up for it. Their shortest album (counting the standard version). For Those About to Drown is easily the best song on side 2. Favourite tracks: Numbers, For Those About to Drown

[BRGM]

Great albums, especially Waiting for Miracles! That run from Vertigo - Bridge - Ascending To the Stars is truly great

Royal Decree has some great songs but is a bit too lenghty and I haven't really listened too much to Banks of Eden, but Numbers is great.

[KevShmev]

Next three...


12 The Rainmaker

Total Points: 17
Ranks: NR, 7, 7, NR, 10, NR, NR, 10, 4

Kind of a strange album in that of the first nine albums, it is the only one I would say it is not great/amazing. Not sure what happened for the overall quality to dip so much on this one album. That said, it is still a good album with a few really good songs (Serious Dreamers, Elaine, Road to Sanctuary).


11 Islands

Total Points: 20
Ranks: NR, NR, NR, 9, NR, 3, 10, 5, 8

Similar to By Royal Decree, there are quite a few songs here that are a blur for me, but this one does have a handful I like a lot.  I always think there was a damn good single disc in there somewhere, versus the bloated double album we got.


10 Adam & Eve

Total Points: 21
Ranks: 8, 5, 8, NR, 9, 10, 9, 7, NR

This is the only one of today's I ranked in my top 10; I ranked this 8th.  This might be my favorite "sounding" Flower Kings album. I love how deep the bass grooves are, yet the melodies still sparkle.  The songwriting is very good overall, making this an album I really appreciate when listening to from start to finish, even if there isn't any one song here I would list among my absolute favorites.

[HOF]

Bummer about The Rainmaker being so low, but I know no one likes it so I shouldn’t be surprised I guess. I had it at number 4. It was my first TFK album, and while there are a couple weak spots (Sword of Heaven mostly), the songs are really strong and it sounds great IMO. Big fan of City of Angels along with the tracks you mentioned. I also think the instrumental bits are cool.

Islands was my number 8. Agreed there is a really strong single disc’s worth of material there. It might be the worst sounding TFK album though. I do really enjoy most of it though. “Driving Home” will always have a strong lock down association.

Haven’t heard Adam and Eve yet. The artwork and (I think) the presence of Daniel Gildenlowe have always discouraged me from checking it out.

[Zydar]

The Rainmaker - Didn't make my Top 10. World Without A Heart is probably my favourite here.

Islands - My #10 and my first new TFK album after becoming a fan. Black Swan and Broken are standout tracks. Could've been a great single disc though.

Adam & Eve - My #9. Cosmic Circus and Starlight Man are favourites.

[Mladen]

There are so many amazing songs on Islands. I also feel like it's one of the less bloated double albums. There are a couple that could have used some trimming more than Islands does.

I like Adam & Eve, but I don't love it. I'm yet to check out The Rainmaker, but the negative reviews discourage me. It's not clear to me from the reviews what's so wrong about it, though. Is it just the songwriting quality?

[HOF]

I'm yet to check out The Rainmaker, but the negative reviews discourage me. It's not clear to me from the reviews what's so wrong about it, though. Is it just the songwriting quality?

I think it might have been seen as a letdown after Space Revolver. Not really sure since it was the first one I heard. The production is good, but a bit warmer and a departure from the earlier sound of the band. Otherwise, the songs are strong so I don’t really get the indifference. For me the disappointing album was the next one after The Rainmaker.

[RoeDent]

1.
2.
3.
4.
5. Adam & Eve
6.
7. The Rainmaker
8.
9. Waiting for Miracles
10.
--------------
11. Islands
12. Banks of Eden
13.
14.
15. By Royal Decree

The Rainmaker - I remember this one taking the longest time for me to get into out of the first seven albums. It's got an incredible atmosphere to it, with the throat singer sounds on a couple of tracks. I distinctly remember being quite taken aback to hear the "Agnus Dei" choir sample that DT used on Bridges in the Sky, at the beginning of Sword of God. In a different key as well. Incredibly haunting moment on a song that really grew on me, despite I know it's not a fan favourite. The raw edge to Hasse's voice is incredible on that track. Favourite tracks: The Rainmaker, Elaine, Sword of God

Islands - This one ranks in the middle of the three post-Bodin albums for me. I think I was expecting another Garden of Dreams considering the band mentioned in promo that it could be heard as a single piece of music. I don't think it works like that, personally. Best to hear it as an album of shorter tracks. Favourite tracks: Black Swan, All I Need Is Love, Northern Lights

Adam & Eve - Big fan of this album. Love Supreme is one of my favourite epics. The big standout on the album is the presence of Daniel Gildenlöw as a full-time band member. A Vampire's View is all him. Absolutely nothing else like it in all TFK's discography. Favourite tracks: Love Supreme, A Vampire's View, Driver's Seat

[425]

The only one of these I've heard is Islands, which I like rather well. I think it's more cohesive than the other double albums I've heard, although I wouldn't object to taking off the 15 minutes or so that would make it a single album. I particularly like Morning News, Solaris and All I Need Is Love. This would have been #5 on my list.

[DTA]

Really surprised to see Banks of Eden so low. Numbers alone is probably their best epic since the 90’s and the other songs (plus b- sides) are all really strong.

[The Letter M]

Catching up on the last two sets, so here we go:

01   ?
02   ?
03   ?
04   ?
05   ?
06   ?
07   ?
08   ?
09   Adam & Eve
10   The Rainmaker
11   By Royal Decree
12   ?
13   Islands
14   Banks Of Eden
15   Waiting For Miracles

Looks like if my 12th ranked album had been in these first few, I would've had my bottom half the same as the final ranking. Maybe it'll come in 7th or 8th in the next batch.

There's definitely some recency bias against the latter albums. They're fine, with some good and great songs, but they just hadn't quite reached the heights of some of their first 7 albums. I think a lot of us are also waiting for them to write another side-length epic, with the last one being "Numbers" from 2012's Banks Of Eden, and that wasn't one of their better epics either. Still good, but maybe only better than "Monsters And Men" from Paradox Hotel in terms of their long songs.

Looking at the first six ranked here (or bottom six), these are definitely what I expected to see from the other lists here as far as what would be in the bottom half of their discography.

-Marc.

[KevShmev]

I'm yet to check out The Rainmaker, but the negative reviews discourage me. It's not clear to me from the reviews what's so wrong about it, though. Is it just the songwriting quality?

I think it might have been seen as a letdown after Space Revolver. Not really sure since it was the first one I heard. The production is good, but a bit warmer and a departure from the earlier sound of the band. Otherwise, the songs are strong so I don’t really get the indifference. For me the disappointing album was the next one after The Rainmaker.

I disagree 100%.  If anything, the overall sound of The Rainmaker is a departure in that it isn't as warm and lush overall as their albums usually are. The drums in particular hit pretty hard in the mix.  The production was definitely a step back from how good the first five albums sounded.  (talking the originals here, not the new remasters/remixes)

[HOF]

Huh. I’ve always found the early TFK albums to be a bit shrill/trebly. Definitely think The Rainmaker sounds a bit more balanced overall.

[DTA]

The early albums always sounded so bright and cheerful to me. Once UTF came out, everything got a little darker, tighter, and more controlled which kind of took away from the positive vibes created by the production of the 90’s albums.

[KevShmev]

I mean this in the nicest way possible, but listen to the early albums on a good stereo, not ear buds or a car stereo.  They sound pretty damn great. 

The Rainmaker doesn't sound bad, but it's just a bit too dry at times, like there is no pop.  The melodies leap out of the speakers on most of their albums, but not as much on that one as consistently (certain tracks, yes).

[HOF]

The early albums always sounded so bright and cheerful to me. Once UTF came out, everything got a little darker, tighter, and more controlled which kind of took away from the positive vibes created by the production of the 90’s albums.

I definitely agree the early albums are brighter, both tonally and sonically, and The Rainmaker was kind of a departure from that.

I mean this in the nicest way possible, but listen to the early albums on a good stereo, not ear buds or a car stereo.  They sound pretty damn great. 

The Rainmaker doesn't sound bad, but it's just a bit too dry at times, like there is no pop.  The melodies leap out of the speakers on most of their albums, but not as much on that one as consistently (certain tracks, yes).

I dunno, I’ve always thought the early ones are a bit rough sonically. Not bad by any means and a character all their own. But they are on the harsher end as production goes. Can see how if you prefer that sound that The Rainmaker would be a disappointment though.

[KevShmev]

I mean this in the nicest way possible, but listen to the early albums on a good stereo, not ear buds or a car stereo.  They sound pretty damn great. 

The Rainmaker doesn't sound bad, but it's just a bit too dry at times, like there is no pop.  The melodies leap out of the speakers on most of their albums, but not as much on that one as consistently (certain tracks, yes).

I dunno, I’ve always thought the early ones are a bit rough sonically. Not bad by any means and a character all their own. But they are on the harsher end as production goes. Can see how if you prefer that sound that The Rainmaker would be a disappointment though.

No, I don't prefer a harsher sound, because that is NOT what the earlier albums have.

[HOF]

I mean this in the nicest way possible, but listen to the early albums on a good stereo, not ear buds or a car stereo.  They sound pretty damn great. 

The Rainmaker doesn't sound bad, but it's just a bit too dry at times, like there is no pop.  The melodies leap out of the speakers on most of their albums, but not as much on that one as consistently (certain tracks, yes).

I dunno, I’ve always thought the early ones are a bit rough sonically. Not bad by any means and a character all their own. But they are on the harsher end as production goes. Can see how if you prefer that sound that The Rainmaker would be a disappointment though.

No, I don't prefer a harsher sound, because that is NOT what the earlier albums have.

Agree to disagree I guess. Don’t get me wrong, I like the sound of those albums just fine, and I wouldn’t say they are poorly produced. If you asked me what the trademark TFK sound is, that’s what would be in my mind, and by comparison The Rainmaker is quite different. I’m not saying one is better than the other, but I’m not sure how else to describe the difference. To me the earlier albums are just a little more harsh/shrill (and it's not necessarily a production thing, just musically they play in higher keys at times and that's probably some of what I'm experiencing).

[KevShmev]

Next three...


09 The Sum of No Evil

Total Points: 23
Ranks: NR, NR, NR, NR, 5, 2, NR, 3, NR

I wasn't that wild about this album for a long time, but I finally came around to appreciating it a few years ago.  It's still not a favorite, thus it didn't make my top 10, but it kind of feels like their Tales of Topographic Oceans, albeit in shorter form, where nothing on it is really great, but there are a lot of really good moments, and you just have to let it all play and take the ponderous moments with the good.


08 Desolation Rose

Total Points: 24
Ranks: NR, NR, 6, 7, 1, 6, NR, NR
Number 1 ranked by: Mladen

The love some fans have for this album baffles me.  I know, I know, we all like what we like, but this one is just so uninspired and bland-sounding.  It's the only studio album of theirs I would say is below average.  It feels like the only keepers from these sessions were on the bonus disc, but I judge studio albums off of the proper albums and do not take the bonus songs into consideration.


07 Back in the World of Adventures

Total Points: 34
Ranks: 7, 8, 5, 8, 7, 8, 4, NR, 7

What a tremendous debut! They hit the ground running, giving us an album with some of their best songs ever like World of Adventures and Big Puzzle.  This actually is the only early album I wish sounded a little better (this is one that did need a bit more low end), but it still sounds really good overall (the next four albums just sound a lot sharper).  I gave this one a bunch of recent spins and was reminded of how much it rocks, relative to most of their other albums.

[Zydar]

The Sum Of No Evil - Didn't make my Top 10. There's nothing here that stands out for me. Maybe a few more spins will make me change my mind.

Desolation Rose - My #6. Guess I'm in the minority of really liking this one. Songs like Tower One, White Tuxedos, and Silent Masses are great.

Back In The World Of Adventures - My #4. It has my favourite TFK song ever in the title track. Train To Nowhere and Atomic Prince are standouts too.

[RoeDent]

1.
2.
3.
4.
5. Adam & Eve
6.
7. The Rainmaker
8. Back in the World of Adventures
9. Waiting for Miracles
10.
--------------
11. Islands
12. Banks of Eden
13. The Sum of No Evil
14. Desolation Rose
15. By Royal Decree

The Sum of No Evil - The first TFK album I bought, in 2013. I listened to it a lot and I like it a lot, but I prefer the albums I ranked higher. Favourite tracks: Love Is The Only Answer, Trading My Soul

Desolation Rose - For a long time this was bottom of my ranking. I could never get into it properly. And while that's changed now I still don't find myself wanting to listen to it very often. Favourite tracks: Desolation Road, White Tuxedos, Silent Masses

Back in the World of Adventures - Incredibly solid debut; they absolutely hit the ground running here. Interesting the split between vocal and instrumental tracks on these early albums. Similar to Porcupine Tree in that regard. Favourite tracks: World of Adventures, Theme for a Hero, My Cosmic Lover

[DTA]

Love DR and BITWOA abut am so-so on Sum. The songs are just too long imo. I love the heavier part in Sum of No Reason though.

Desolation Rose has the incredible Tower One, which is one of my favorite longer songs of theirs. And all the other tracks flow together in a stream of consciousness kind of way which felt new for them at the time.

And Adventures is just a stunning debut with two great bookend epics and a lot of great stuff in between. Theme For A Hero’s melodies never fail to get me going along with the harder sound of Go West Judas. The album just feels fresh to me even though it’s almist 30 years old.