2023 NFL Thread v Year of the Brotherly Shove

[Stadler]

Dobbs is a cool story and has played well. Being really smart is an asset for a QB. They had the game won until the running back fumbled, Dobbs’ INT was the result of his arm getting hit.

Two more major QB injuries yesterday, the future careers of Kenny Pickett and Zach Wilson suffered catastrophic injuries. Both were abysmal on teams that could go to the championship game if they had even competent QB play.

That'll teach Zach not to plow over his coach when scampering out of bounds.    Although Boyle isn't the guy long term, you can't question that move; other than occasional flashes of wicked arm strength, there wasn't much to show from Zach Wilson.  I don't know about Pickett though; I wonder if that's too soon. 

[Dream Team]

What I mentioned a couple posts ago has been on full display tonight. The constant o-line penalties have the Chiefs constantly in 2nd and 20 and 3rd and 15 and it’s very difficult to sustain drives. Plus Kelce trying to give the game away because of separation anxiety doesn’t help  .

Edit: wow and then Valdez-Scantling drops the game-winner 

[nobloodyname]

Browns move to 7-3. First time they've beaten the Ravens and Steelers in consecutive weeks in franchise history. Crazy, really.

[Stadler]

What I mentioned a couple posts ago has been on full display tonight. The constant o-line penalties have the Chiefs constantly in 2nd and 20 and 3rd and 15 and it’s very difficult to sustain drives. Plus Kelce trying to give the game away because of separation anxiety doesn’t help  .

Edit: wow and then Valdez-Scantling drops the game-winner 

They showed that clip over and over and over.  That wasn't the difference in the game.   In fact, it would have been a shame if it was, because they didn't deserve that win.   Mahomes is every bit the whiney bitch that Brady is made out to be. He bought that roughing the passer penalty, crying like it was his wedding day when he hit the ground.  Actually, he had his arms out looking at the ref begging for the penalty even before he hit the ground!!!   I watch the Manning broadcast, and at LEAST three times in that last ten minutes Peyton was shaking his head going "that wasn't a penalty".

This is exactly what I've been saying for six years now; let's see how he does through at least one rotation of the supporting cast.  He played pretty well, keeping his team in the game but the Eagles played a more solid game from start to finish (well, except for that last play; they got lucky.  What were they thinking playing 35 yards off the line of scrimmage when it was 4th and 25?!?!)

PS: YES, I know it was one game, and not even a playoff game; there's a lot of football left to play. But we're seeing the fraying edges of what was supposed to be the greatest team to ever set foot on the turf, led by the greatest player in football, baseball and hockey history.   They're normal men, and subject to the same pressures as everyone else.

PSS:  The ONE TIME I need Mahomes to be 'that guy', he stuffs it. If the Chiefs won, I was in first place in our pick em, but NO, fucking guy - and Kelce - has to tank when I need him most. 

[KevShmev]

As someone who thinks the NFL product has deteriorated, I thought last night's game was very good.  That was an old school guy with the elements (rain), some mistakes, some crucial turnovers, etc.  It felt like a dog fight rather than a 54-51 game (Chiefs/Rams from years ago) where there is no defense and it looks more like arena football.   Of course, we still got a couple terrible calls/non-calls from the officials (the hold on the Eagles first TD couldn't have been more obvious and was the only reason Swift got the edge and scored; the late roughing the passer call was terrible), but you basically have to go into games now knowing that the officials are going to botch a bunch of calls; it's what they do.

[El Barto]

I actually turned it off last night when it looked like the Chiefs were going to roll over Phili. Sorry I missed the 4th quarter. Sounds like I'd have enjoyed that, but I just haven't been much into football lately.

I actually watched a bit of the Manningcast last night. Never bothered before. People actually enjoy that? It was worse than [what I saw of] the game. Is Eli really that much of a dullard, or is that shtick?

[Stadler]

I actually turned it off last night when it looked like the Chiefs were going to roll over Phili. Sorry I missed the 4th quarter. Sounds like I'd have enjoyed that, but I just haven't been much into football lately.

I actually watched a bit of the Manningcast last night. Never bothered before. People actually enjoy that? It was worse than [what I saw of] the game. Is Eli really that much of a dullard, or is that shtick?

It's schtick.  It wasn't a great Manningcast, to be honest; the best part was the end when it was just the two of them analyzing football.  All day long with that.  But they had Mark Walhburg on and Mark couldn't have been less interested or engaged. I almost hope something serious was going on with him because otherwise it was just almost rude.  He was even caught on a hot mike at the end saying "these guys..." and then he covered his mouth.  Eli was trying to get him to engage and to make fun of Peyton - that's the schtick - and other than about 30, 45 seconds about the two Super Bowls (Wahlberg is a Pats fan) it was excruciating.  I went to the Bruins at that point. I missed Caitlyn Clark and don't remember if there was a third guest.  EDIT: Michael Vick, who was pretty good.  There was a bad delay between the questions and the answers, but he was more thoughtful than I remember (and didn't seem high, which might have something to do with it*).

Philly stepped up in the last third of the game.  I thought Kev has is right; that was old-school football, or at least as close as you can come with the modern day nonsense.   


* When I lived in Philly, a friend of ours kid went to school with Vick's kid and they went to several birthday parties together, including one at Vick's apartment.   According to my friend, who therefore met him several times, he was always polite, but VERY quiet and would usually inevitably disappear with some of his hanger's on and they were almost always high.

[El Barto]

I saw Dogkiller on there, and didn't think much of him as a guest, but as you said there was a pronounced delay which might have contributed. Analysis would have been cool, but there just wasn't much at all of that. It was just the two of them jawing and throwing in an occasional "nice catch" or something.

They should start live-streaming William Shatner's MNF parties. That would be a hoot.

[KevShmev]

I think I said it before, but the Manningcast only works when it's just the two of them or when they have a football guest.  Having a non-football guest is almost never good.  In the case of Walhburg, he has a long rep of being an a-hole, so it's not surprising at all to me that he acted like that. 

[King Postwhore]

Bill Burr was fantastic on that.  I actually like the Manningcast. 

[KevShmev]

Bill Burr is awesome everywhere, so I am not surprised that he was great on there.  (I cannot recall if I saw any of it )  Plus, he is a big sports guy, so he knows what he is talking about, such as that take he had last week about Boston sports fans.

[Skeever]

I'm feeling pretty done with the Manningcast. Its run its course, the guests themselves are pretty gimmicky and don't bring much to the table generally. I'd love to see both guys in a booth but doubt they want to work that hard and travel with NFL teams every week. Mark Whalburg sucks, hope he's having a good time with his Catholicism app. Anyway, love the Mannings themselves, but for now I've returned to the main broadcast.

Anyway, great win for the Eagles. Chiefs are really lacking talent at WR, with even Kelce looking very "distracted" lately.
I still think KC are the one seed. The Eagles have it rough from here on out, and I think teams are going to find ways to take them down several notches.

Stuff I'm loving about this season:
-Broncos Country, let's ride. Glad to see that Denver seem to be righting the ship, even if Russ isn't the same as he used to be.
-CJ Stroud and Trevor Lawrence are heating up the AFC South, making what's been a dead division seem a lot more interesting
-The Lions and the Vikings in the NFC North, what a great battle

Stuff I'm hating:
-Deja Vue with the Jets. For all they've gone through, it really sucks to see them back in the same exact spot as they ended last year.
-QB injuries, generally. Sucks to see Burrow especially, just as he was heating up
-The Niners - as a team, just do not excite me. I know they have a good record, but Purdy has not been convincing, and they seem like a worse version of themselves last year

[King Postwhore]

Bill Burr is awesome everywhere, so I am not surprised that he was great on there.  (I cannot recall if I saw any of it )  Plus, he is a big sports guy, so he knows what he is talking about, such as that take he had last week about Boston sports fans.

So you're telling me what I already know.  LOLOL

[Jamesman42]

From what I've read, much of the issue with the Manningcast is the guests come on and it becomes more of a promotion for them or whatever current project they are doing.

[Skeever]

From what I've read, much of the issue with the Manningcast is the guests come on and it becomes more of a promotion for them or whatever current project they are doing.

That's how it feels. He seemed annoyed that they were talking about the game and not just talking to him. The best guests are the ones that are interested in the game and want to provide their own play by play commentary.

[Dream Team]

What I mentioned a couple posts ago has been on full display tonight. The constant o-line penalties have the Chiefs constantly in 2nd and 20 and 3rd and 15 and it’s very difficult to sustain drives. Plus Kelce trying to give the game away because of separation anxiety doesn’t help  .

Edit: wow and then Valdez-Scantling drops the game-winner 

They showed that clip over and over and over.  That wasn't the difference in the game.   In fact, it would have been a shame if it was, because they didn't deserve that win.   Mahomes is every bit the whiney bitch that Brady is made out to be. He bought that roughing the passer penalty, crying like it was his wedding day when he hit the ground.  Actually, he had his arms out looking at the ref begging for the penalty even before he hit the ground!!!   I watch the Manning broadcast, and at LEAST three times in that last ten minutes Peyton was shaking his head going "that wasn't a penalty".

This is exactly what I've been saying for six years now; let's see how he does through at least one rotation of the supporting cast.  He played pretty well, keeping his team in the game but the Eagles played a more solid game from start to finish (well, except for that last play; they got lucky.  What were they thinking playing 35 yards off the line of scrimmage when it was 4th and 25?!?!)

PS: YES, I know it was one game, and not even a playoff game; there's a lot of football left to play. But we're seeing the fraying edges of what was supposed to be the greatest team to ever set foot on the turf, led by the greatest player in football, baseball and hockey history.   They're normal men, and subject to the same pressures as everyone else.

PSS:  The ONE TIME I need Mahomes to be 'that guy', he stuffs it. If the Chiefs won, I was in first place in our pick em, but NO, fucking guy - and Kelce - has to tank when I need him most. 

The Chiefs' receivers dropped 6 balls total, usually on 3rd and 4th down killing several drives, and Kelce fumbled on the 5 yard line. That was the reason for the loss. He kept putting the ball in their hands, what else was he supposed to do? The actual NFL analysts who watched the game all said Mahomes was dropping dimes while his receivers had money on Philly.

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2023/11/21/23970558/kansas-city-chiefs-wide-receivers-drops-marquez-valdes-scantling-justin-watson-travis-kelce

[Skeever]

This is exactly what I've been saying for six years now; let's see how he does through at least one rotation of the supporting cast.  He played pretty well, keeping his team in the game but the Eagles played a more solid game from start to finish (well, except for that last play; they got lucky.  What were they thinking playing 35 yards off the line of scrimmage when it was 4th and 25?!?!)

This doesn't make more sense the more you keep saying it. There is very little left between now (or last year) and his first MVP campaign, especially on offense. In fact, Kelce is it (and I suspect, if Kelce retires, it'll pivot to "can he do it without Reid?").

I think to be considered on par with Brady or Manning, Mahomes needs to prove he can do it in a completely new system. Sure thing. But he's already going to go down as one of the greats, like it not.

As someone who couldn't see through my rage blinders during the entirety of the Brady era, allow me to offer some advice... accept that your team and its era are over, and just try and enjoy the product the league is putting out 

[Stadler]

What I mentioned a couple posts ago has been on full display tonight. The constant o-line penalties have the Chiefs constantly in 2nd and 20 and 3rd and 15 and it’s very difficult to sustain drives. Plus Kelce trying to give the game away because of separation anxiety doesn’t help  .

Edit: wow and then Valdez-Scantling drops the game-winner 

They showed that clip over and over and over.  That wasn't the difference in the game.   In fact, it would have been a shame if it was, because they didn't deserve that win.   Mahomes is every bit the whiney bitch that Brady is made out to be. He bought that roughing the passer penalty, crying like it was his wedding day when he hit the ground.  Actually, he had his arms out looking at the ref begging for the penalty even before he hit the ground!!!   I watch the Manning broadcast, and at LEAST three times in that last ten minutes Peyton was shaking his head going "that wasn't a penalty".

This is exactly what I've been saying for six years now; let's see how he does through at least one rotation of the supporting cast.  He played pretty well, keeping his team in the game but the Eagles played a more solid game from start to finish (well, except for that last play; they got lucky.  What were they thinking playing 35 yards off the line of scrimmage when it was 4th and 25?!?!)

PS: YES, I know it was one game, and not even a playoff game; there's a lot of football left to play. But we're seeing the fraying edges of what was supposed to be the greatest team to ever set foot on the turf, led by the greatest player in football, baseball and hockey history.   They're normal men, and subject to the same pressures as everyone else.

PSS:  The ONE TIME I need Mahomes to be 'that guy', he stuffs it. If the Chiefs won, I was in first place in our pick em, but NO, fucking guy - and Kelce - has to tank when I need him most. 

The Chiefs' receivers dropped 6 balls total, usually on 3rd and 4th down killing several drives, and Kelce fumbled on the 5 yard line. That was the reason for the loss. He kept putting the ball in their hands, what else was he supposed to do? The actual NFL analysts who watched the game all said Mahomes was dropping dimes while his receivers had money on Philly.

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2023/11/21/23970558/kansas-city-chiefs-wide-receivers-drops-marquez-valdes-scantling-justin-watson-travis-kelce

I watched the game, and he was not "dropping dimes" under any standard of the phrase.  If the analysts are saying that, they're making excuses for headlines.  The throw to Valdez-Santling was perfect, no question, but this was not a case of simply average play holding back greatness.  And even if it was, that's what GOATs are supposed to do, no? Win when everyone around them is surfing the inter webs and checking their Instachat accounts?   The throw on 4th and 25 wasn't that great, and there were as many that were off target as were on.

[ProfessorPeart]

Mark Wahlberg is a joke. I love the Manningcast and I probably would have turned it off if I was watching last night. Wahlberg is just so douchey it's not even funny, much like him.

[El Barto]

This is exactly what I've been saying for six years now; let's see how he does through at least one rotation of the supporting cast.  He played pretty well, keeping his team in the game but the Eagles played a more solid game from start to finish (well, except for that last play; they got lucky.  What were they thinking playing 35 yards off the line of scrimmage when it was 4th and 25?!?!)

This doesn't make more sense the more you keep saying it. There is very little left between now (or last year) and his first MVP campaign, especially on offense. In fact, Kelce is it (and I suspect, if Kelce retires, it'll pivot to "can he do it without Reid?").

I think to be considered on par with Brady or Manning, Mahomes needs to prove he can do it in a completely new system. Sure thing. But he's already going to go down as one of the greats, like it not.

As someone who couldn't see through my rage blinders during the entirety of the Brady era, allow me to offer some advice... accept that your team and its era are over, and just try and enjoy the product the league is putting out 

Well, for one thing, I don't much care for Brady and I certainly get where he's coming from. I will say that Mahomes continues to make his case, though.

As for the product that the league is putting out, it stinks more and more each year. And it's not related to how my team is doing.

[Skeever]

I have no complaints about the product on the field. There are exciting games every single week, and generally marquee matchups have been exciting as well. The injuries this year suck, and the way gambling continues to creep in also is a big downer for me.

[El Barto]

I have no complaints about the product on the field. There are exciting games every single week, and generally marquee matchups have been exciting as well. The injuries this year suck, and the way gambling continues to creep in also is a big downer for me.

I'm a longtime defender of the referees. I sure couldn't do what they do, and I'm alright with them making mistakes as I think they generally all even out in the end. The number of rules and the way that they're trying to enforce them has really hurt the game, though. I'm seeing more games than I like being greatly effected, if not determined by the officials. Moreover, I don't think the skill of the teams and the players factor into outcomes nearly as much as they used to.

[lordxizor]

I have no complaints about the product on the field. There are exciting games every single week, and generally marquee matchups have been exciting as well. The injuries this year suck, and the way gambling continues to creep in also is a big downer for me.

I'm a longtime defender of the referees. I sure couldn't do what they do, and I'm alright with them making mistakes as I think they generally all even out in the end. The number of rules and the way that they're trying to enforce them has really hurt the game, though. I'm seeing more games than I like being greatly effected, if not determined by the officials. Moreover, I don't think the skill of the teams and the players factor into outcomes nearly as much as they used to.

I generally cut the refs a lot of slack since the rulebook is complicated and there's a lot going on they need to watch. But it is frustrating when calls are missed that greatly impact the outcome of the game. Replay helps a little there at times at least. It does seem like the outcome of the game is impacted more than it used to be. But high def replays have helped us nitpick far more than we used to be able to.

[El Barto]

I have no complaints about the product on the field. There are exciting games every single week, and generally marquee matchups have been exciting as well. The injuries this year suck, and the way gambling continues to creep in also is a big downer for me.

I'm a longtime defender of the referees. I sure couldn't do what they do, and I'm alright with them making mistakes as I think they generally all even out in the end. The number of rules and the way that they're trying to enforce them has really hurt the game, though. I'm seeing more games than I like being greatly effected, if not determined by the officials. Moreover, I don't think the skill of the teams and the players factor into outcomes nearly as much as they used to.

I generally cut the refs a lot of slack since the rulebook is complicated and there's a lot going on they need to watch. But it is frustrating when calls are missed that greatly impact the outcome of the game. Replay helps a little there at times at least. It does seem like the outcome of the game is impacted more than it used to be. But high def replays have helped us nitpick far more than we used to be able to.

Absolutely. I've long said that the quality of officiating is as good as it's ever been insofar as accuracy is concerned. Nobody noticed back when the rich folk were watching the game on their 13" color TV with 320 scan lines and the rest of us had it worse. The problem is the increased emphasis on judgemental things and number of things to look out for in general. How many was are there to flag on a DB now? It's gotten crazy.

[Stadler]

I have no complaints about the product on the field. There are exciting games every single week, and generally marquee matchups have been exciting as well. The injuries this year suck, and the way gambling continues to creep in also is a big downer for me.

Me too; gambling has not helped this sport in any way, shape or form.

[romdrums]

I have no complaints about the product on the field. There are exciting games every single week, and generally marquee matchups have been exciting as well. The injuries this year suck, and the way gambling continues to creep in also is a big downer for me.

Me too; gambling has not helped this sport in any way, shape or form.

I strongly agree with this. It has to be effecting the outcome of games. I'm not saying the sport is scripted, but the outcomes aren't necessarily determined entirely by the athletes on the field. I'd bet money on it!

[lordxizor]

I have no complaints about the product on the field. There are exciting games every single week, and generally marquee matchups have been exciting as well. The injuries this year suck, and the way gambling continues to creep in also is a big downer for me.

Me too; gambling has not helped this sport in any way, shape or form.

I strongly agree with this. It has to be effecting the outcome of games. I'm not saying the sport is scripted, but the outcomes aren't necessarily determined entirely by the athletes on the field. I'd bet money on it!

I'm curious, what benefit is it to the NFL that certain bets go one way or the other? Why would they care enough to tell refs to favor a certain team?

[KevShmev]

The funny part is that despite the NFL going out of their way to protect the QB, a bunch are still being lost.  I am good with them protecting them in general, as no one wants to see a marquee game with two backup QBs battling it out*, but I just think they have gone overboard with the flags for barely touching the QB.

*Look at this Friday.  The first time we get a game the day after Thanksgiving, and instead of it being Rodgers vs Tua, it is someone who wasn't good enough to start ahead of Zach Wilson until now ( ) vs Tua.  Lame, and likely will be unwatchable.  And the big Bengals/Chiefs game on NYE now looks a lot less enticing with Burrow out for the season.

Oh, and can we now all acknowledge that Hackett was THE problem in Denver last year, not Russell Wilson.  This year is showing that while Wilson might not still be as great as he was most of his tenure in Seattle, he can still be very good with the right coach.  If Payton manages to fix their offensive line (which is still not good) by next season, the tools will be in place to be an elite offense again.

[King Postwhore]

Agree Kev about Wilson. 

[Stadler]

I have no complaints about the product on the field. There are exciting games every single week, and generally marquee matchups have been exciting as well. The injuries this year suck, and the way gambling continues to creep in also is a big downer for me.

Me too; gambling has not helped this sport in any way, shape or form.

I strongly agree with this. It has to be effecting the outcome of games. I'm not saying the sport is scripted, but the outcomes aren't necessarily determined entirely by the athletes on the field. I'd bet money on it!

I'm curious, what benefit is it to the NFL that certain bets go one way or the other? Why would they care enough to tell refs to favor a certain team?

One, it doesn't necessarily have to be to benefit a team with a WIN.  Just covering or not is adequate.  And two, you need certain teams to win periodically to make sure that the book doesn't capitalize on certain teams every week.  You need people betting on Carolina even if it's a longshot. 

[Skeever]

The funny part is that despite the NFL going out of their way to protect the QB, a bunch are still being lost.  I am good with them protecting them in general, as no one wants to see a marquee game with two backup QBs battling it out*, but I just think they have gone overboard with the flags for barely touching the QB.

*Look at this Friday.  The first time we get a game the day after Thanksgiving, and instead of it being Rodgers vs Tua, it is someone who wasn't good enough to start ahead of Zach Wilson until now ( ) vs Tua.  Lame, and likely will be unwatchable.  And the big Bengals/Chiefs game on NYE now looks a lot less enticing with Burrow out for the season.

Oh, and can we now all acknowledge that Hackett was THE problem in Denver last year, not Russell Wilson.  This year is showing that while Wilson might not still be as great as he was most of his tenure in Seattle, he can still be very good with the right coach.  If Payton manages to fix their offensive line (which is still not good) by next season, the tools will be in place to be an elite offense again.

Hackett was not a good HC, but I'm not totally convinced he's the problem in NY. As Rodgers said on a recent interview, he's won two MVPs in Hackett's offense. Just because Hackett was a terrible HC does not mean he is a terrible OC.  As far as who is to blame for last year, R. Wilson was making some really awful plays and decisions, and his play this year is better, but still not really great. I think both the play caller and the QB have to share the blame.

Also, I think people are forgetting some key things about the whole Zach Wilson situation. He is, primarily, the problem with the Jets offense, but it doesn't help that he's snapped the ball behind 10+ different linemen (including 3 centers) this year. I think there is a general understanding in NY that the season wasn't supposed to go this way, and everyone has a lifeline going into next year (for better or worse).

Friday will likely be unwatchable, but last year the Jets wound up winning since Tua was out. It's the NFL and anything could happen. The Jets did somehow beat the Bills in week one, and the Eagles. My Dad, Brother, and I are going together to see Atlanta face the Jets at home the following week, and if they can somehow beat Miami, that game will be much better to attend.

[Stadler]

The funny part is that despite the NFL going out of their way to protect the QB, a bunch are still being lost.  I am good with them protecting them in general, as no one wants to see a marquee game with two backup QBs battling it out*, but I just think they have gone overboard with the flags for barely touching the QB.

*Look at this Friday.  The first time we get a game the day after Thanksgiving, and instead of it being Rodgers vs Tua, it is someone who wasn't good enough to start ahead of Zach Wilson until now ( ) vs Tua.  Lame, and likely will be unwatchable.  And the big Bengals/Chiefs game on NYE now looks a lot less enticing with Burrow out for the season.

Oh, and can we now all acknowledge that Hackett was THE problem in Denver last year, not Russell Wilson.  This year is showing that while Wilson might not still be as great as he was most of his tenure in Seattle, he can still be very good with the right coach.  If Payton manages to fix their offensive line (which is still not good) by next season, the tools will be in place to be an elite offense again.

Hackett was not a good HC, but I'm not totally convinced he's the problem in NY. As Rodgers said on a recent interview, he's won two MVPs in Hackett's offense. Just because Hackett was a terrible HC does not mean he is a terrible OC.  As far as who is to blame for last year, R. Wilson was making some really awful plays and decisions, and his play this year is better, but still not really great. I think both the play caller and the QB have to share the blame.

Also, I think people are forgetting some key things about the whole Zach Wilson situation. He is, primarily, the problem with the Jets offense, but it doesn't help that he's snapped the ball behind 10+ different linemen (including 3 centers) this year. I think there is a general understanding in NY that the season wasn't supposed to go this way, and everyone has a lifeline going into next year (for better or worse).

Friday will likely be unwatchable, but last year the Jets wound up winning since Tua was out. It's the NFL and anything could happen. The Jets did somehow beat the Bills in week one, and the Eagles. My Dad, Brother, and I are going together to see Atlanta face the Jets at home the following week, and if they can somehow beat Miami, that game will be much better to attend.

And I'll be watching:  Tim Boyle, Uconn (2013-2015)!!!    Don't care if he gets blown out, it's a start! 

[Jamesman42]

The Jets defense should keep the game a little interesting, at least.

[Skeever]

The funny part is that despite the NFL going out of their way to protect the QB, a bunch are still being lost.  I am good with them protecting them in general, as no one wants to see a marquee game with two backup QBs battling it out*, but I just think they have gone overboard with the flags for barely touching the QB.

*Look at this Friday.  The first time we get a game the day after Thanksgiving, and instead of it being Rodgers vs Tua, it is someone who wasn't good enough to start ahead of Zach Wilson until now ( ) vs Tua.  Lame, and likely will be unwatchable.  And the big Bengals/Chiefs game on NYE now looks a lot less enticing with Burrow out for the season.

Oh, and can we now all acknowledge that Hackett was THE problem in Denver last year, not Russell Wilson.  This year is showing that while Wilson might not still be as great as he was most of his tenure in Seattle, he can still be very good with the right coach.  If Payton manages to fix their offensive line (which is still not good) by next season, the tools will be in place to be an elite offense again.

Hackett was not a good HC, but I'm not totally convinced he's the problem in NY. As Rodgers said on a recent interview, he's won two MVPs in Hackett's offense. Just because Hackett was a terrible HC does not mean he is a terrible OC.  As far as who is to blame for last year, R. Wilson was making some really awful plays and decisions, and his play this year is better, but still not really great. I think both the play caller and the QB have to share the blame.

Also, I think people are forgetting some key things about the whole Zach Wilson situation. He is, primarily, the problem with the Jets offense, but it doesn't help that he's snapped the ball behind 10+ different linemen (including 3 centers) this year. I think there is a general understanding in NY that the season wasn't supposed to go this way, and everyone has a lifeline going into next year (for better or worse).

Friday will likely be unwatchable, but last year the Jets wound up winning since Tua was out. It's the NFL and anything could happen. The Jets did somehow beat the Bills in week one, and the Eagles. My Dad, Brother, and I are going together to see Atlanta face the Jets at home the following week, and if they can somehow beat Miami, that game will be much better to attend.

And I'll be watching:  Tim Boyle, Uconn (2013-2015)!!!    Don't care if he gets blown out, it's a start!

I was looking over his stats and, damn, how'd this guy get a ticket into the NFL?
But also - must be impressing somebody, somehow. Would just make it all the more special if he does wind up having some hidden talent that gets unlocked.

[axeman90210]

My understanding is that Tim Boyle is a great guy to have in a QB room, almost like another QB coach in terms of watching film and whatnot, he's just not great and translating that into good performances on the field. Great guy to have as a QB3, but probably shouldn't be your backup (or now your starter). That's my biggest problem with what the Jets have or haven't done this year, they should have brought in a legitimate QB option as soon as Aaron went down. I still think Zach could have turned his career around if he had a year or two out of the spotlight to work on his game. I still see flashes of it this season, he had a couple drives against KC where he was throwing some gorgeous passes downfield into tight windows. I think Hackett might be a lot like Adam Gase in that he is a great coordinator for a certain QB (Aaron in this case, Peyton in Gase's), but it's not transferrable to being generally a great coordinator. It's a shame, because this defense is so ridiculous and fun to watch. One of the highest pressure rates in the league despite one of the lowest blitz rates, potentially two Pro Bowl linebackers, and quite possibly the best cornerback duo in the game. We're loaded at all three levels and they've been delivering all season. Hopefully we can keep enough of the core pieces of the defense together for next year, invest in the O-line and WR positions (at least we get to keep what should be a decent 1st round pick), and Aaron should be back and healthy.