2023 NFL Thread v Super Bowl matchup: Chiefs vs. 49ers

Started by KevShmev, March 07, 2023, 12:42:21 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

King Postwhore

 :lol

I hope he knows who her ex is. Lol
"I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'." - Bon Newhart.

KevShmev

Which one?  :lol :lol

I am sure he has gotten himself all kinds of hookups, when you are Tom Brady and you can probably get laid anywhere, anytime, it's hard to fathom why he would waste time on human garbage like her, but maybe he just sees it is another before moving on.

King Postwhore

"I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'." - Bon Newhart.

Stadler

I think the list of celebrities that took the pipe on crypto is as long as my arm. 

KevShmev

I see RBs all over the league are pissing and moaning that they aren't getting the big money in free agency that RBs used to, but I guess they haven't been paying attention. RB is now one of the least important positions in football.  Looks at the best RBs of the last few years or even decade.  Adrian Peterson.  Derrick Henry.  Christian McCaffrey.  Nick Chubb.  Saquan Barkley.   No rings.  Meanwhile, Sony freaking Michel was the leading rusher for two of the last five Super Bowl winners. :lol

Jamesman42

And the QB's seem to be running more as well.
\o\ lol /o/

El Barto

Quote from: KevShmev on July 17, 2023, 06:30:37 PM
I see RBs all over the league are pissing and moaning that they aren't getting the big money in free agency that RBs used to, but I guess they haven't been paying attention. RB is now one of the least important positions in football.  Looks at the best RBs of the last few years or even decade.  Adrian Peterson.  Derrick Henry.  Christian McCaffrey.  Nick Chubb.  Saquan Barkley.   No rings.  Meanwhile, Sony freaking Michel was the leading rusher for two of the last five Super Bowl winners. :lol
While RBs might be overvalued, running games certainly are not. Assuming that you don't need a run game is asking for trouble, and investing in one will usually pay off. In one of Sony Michel's superb owls, NE rushed for 154 yards, while passing for 253. Without those yards, and he accounted for 90+, it's likely a different game.

KevShmev

Quote from: El Barto on July 17, 2023, 10:05:05 PM
Quote from: KevShmev on July 17, 2023, 06:30:37 PM
I see RBs all over the league are pissing and moaning that they aren't getting the big money in free agency that RBs used to, but I guess they haven't been paying attention. RB is now one of the least important positions in football.  Looks at the best RBs of the last few years or even decade.  Adrian Peterson.  Derrick Henry.  Christian McCaffrey.  Nick Chubb.  Saquan Barkley.   No rings.  Meanwhile, Sony freaking Michel was the leading rusher for two of the last five Super Bowl winners. :lol
While RBs might be overvalued, running games certainly are not. Assuming that you don't need a run game is asking for trouble, and investing in one will usually pay off. In one of Sony Michel's superb owls, NE rushed for 154 yards, while passing for 253. Without those yards, and he accounted for 90+, it's likely a different game.

Agreed.  Big difference, though, in needing a stud RB and needing a running game itself.  Josh Jacobs is supposedly getting a raw deal from the Raiders after the great season he had in 2022, but the team took a huge step backwards despite his great season.  Now, there were other factors at play that led to their decline in wins, but it still illustrates that a stud RB balling out often doesn't lead to more winning in today's NFL, especially come playoff time. I think it is very easy to argue that the two best RBs in the last five years have been Derrick Henry and Nick Chubb, and their teams have a combined three playoff wins in that time span. 

Dream Team

Yeah basically they think they can get close or equal value from the fungible running backs from the next draft class. I like the way Reid uses running backs, they all have a role and none get over-used. That's the best way to handle a run game I think and the great ones will last longer that way.


After checking out that Quarterback series on Netflix, I definitely am a bigger fan of Cousins than I was and I think I'll be rooting for him in any game where I don't otherwise have a rooting interest. But that series really humanizes these guys.

KevShmev

Regarding the RB story, one good counterpoint I read this week is that due to their tendency to peak very early in their NFL careers, most never get a chance to capitalize and get a big payday in their primes. Thanks to rookie contracts and the franchise tag, most have hit the wall and are on the downslide by the time they can explore free agency in any real way, and NFL teams simply aren't going to overpay for a position that isn't super valuable anymore.  I do think this is a very good point, but I am not sure what the solution is.  The league cannot change the rules to where RBs cannot be franchised or get to be FAs sooner, for a variety of reasons (the union would never back it since they need to support all players, every other position would then demand the same treatment, etc.).

El Barto

Quote from: Dream Team on July 20, 2023, 06:15:30 AM
Yeah basically they think they can get close or equal value from the fungible running backs from the next draft class. I like the way Reid uses running backs, they all have a role and none get over-used. That's the best way to handle a run game I think and the great ones will last longer that way.


After checking out that Quarterback series on Netflix, I definitely am a bigger fan of Cousins than I was and I think I'll be rooting for him in any game where I don't otherwise have a rooting interest. But that series really humanizes these guys.

Yeah, the comittee approach sure does seem to be the way to go. At the same time, if you find somebody that'd durable, can run, catch, and block, best to keep him around. Saquan Barkley does seem to be one of those all around guys. The problem is that teams are blowing huge wads on QB+1 WR, and there's little left for everybody else. They're not really looking to pay people based on what they bring to the team, and SB brings quite a bit. I've always maintained that a good RB is a force multiplier. He makes everybody else better. In NY's case, I'm probably on SB's side. They're not far apart, and NY could have made that up with incentives. Plus, RB is a unique position in this regard because of injury and wear and tear.

Honestly, I think Zeek ruined it for everybody.

King Postwhore

I don't know if it is true, but I saw a picture that stated the average salary for a kicker is greater than the average salary of running backs in the NFL.
"I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'." - Bon Newhart.

KevShmev

Quote from: Kinger on July 20, 2023, 07:26:17 AM
I don't know if it is true, but I saw a picture that stated the average salary for a kicker is greater than the average salary of running backs in the NFL.

I saw that, too, and it's a stupid meme that lacks context and is merely meant to get people worked up.  Most teams have only one kicker, while teams are always going to have a handful of RBs, many of whom make the league minimum or not much more, and those guys are going to drag the overall average down, but we can't let common sense get in the way of the "OMG, the NFL values kickers more than RBs!" narrative.  And that is not even factoring in that an awesome kicker probably IS more valuable than an awesome RB in today's NFL.  See: Justin Tucker.

El Barto

Quote from: KevShmev on July 20, 2023, 07:11:49 AM
Regarding the RB story, one good counterpoint I read this week is that due to their tendency to peak very early in their NFL careers, most never get a chance to capitalize and get a big payday in their primes. Thanks to rookie contracts and the franchise tag, most have hit the wall and are on the downslide by the time they can explore free agency in any real way, and NFL teams simply aren't going to overpay for a position that isn't super valuable anymore.  I do think this is a very good point, but I am not sure what the solution is.  The league cannot change the rules to where RBs cannot be franchised or get to be FAs sooner, for a variety of reasons (the union would never back it since they need to support all players, every other position would then demand the same treatment, etc.).
Yeah, that's a problem, and I don't know the solution, either. I know plenty of people would rather watch QB duels with 900 yds passing and a 47-44 final, but good runners make it a better game for my tastes. I don't want to see the position become expendable.

King Postwhore

Quote from: KevShmev on July 20, 2023, 07:31:19 AM
Quote from: Kinger on July 20, 2023, 07:26:17 AM
I don't know if it is true, but I saw a picture that stated the average salary for a kicker is greater than the average salary of running backs in the NFL.

I saw that, too, and it's a stupid meme that lacks context and is merely meant to get people worked up.  Most teams have only one kicker, while teams are always going to have a handful of RBs, many of whom make the league minimum or not much more, and those guys are going to drag the overall average down, but we can't let common sense get in the way of the "OMG, the NFL values kickers more than RBs!" narrative.  And that is not even factoring in that an awesome kicker probably IS more valuable than an awesome RB in today's NFL.  See: Justin Tucker.

You also have to look at the amount of body damage and football life span in those 2 positions too.  A kicker, if good, can play for 15 years.  No running back can do so. 
"I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'." - Bon Newhart.

hunnus2000

Quote from: Kinger on July 20, 2023, 07:36:18 AM
Quote from: KevShmev on July 20, 2023, 07:31:19 AM
Quote from: Kinger on July 20, 2023, 07:26:17 AM
I don't know if it is true, but I saw a picture that stated the average salary for a kicker is greater than the average salary of running backs in the NFL.

I saw that, too, and it's a stupid meme that lacks context and is merely meant to get people worked up.  Most teams have only one kicker, while teams are always going to have a handful of RBs, many of whom make the league minimum or not much more, and those guys are going to drag the overall average down, but we can't let common sense get in the way of the "OMG, the NFL values kickers more than RBs!" narrative.  And that is not even factoring in that an awesome kicker probably IS more valuable than an awesome RB in today's NFL.  See: Justin Tucker.

You also have to look at the amount of body damage and football life span in those 2 positions too.  A kicker, if good, can play for 15 years.  No running back can do so.

Emmitt Smith played for 15 years.  :)

But I would argue that we saw the reemergence of the running game last year. Philly is the obvious team that comes to mind.

Random thought, Saquon has only had one good season and I'm not sure he deserves more money. Just sayin.............

Stadler

Quote from: Dream Team on July 20, 2023, 06:15:30 AM
Yeah basically they think they can get close or equal value from the fungible running backs from the next draft class. I like the way Reid uses running backs, they all have a role and none get over-used. That's the best way to handle a run game I think and the great ones will last longer that way.


After checking out that Quarterback series on Netflix, I definitely am a bigger fan of Cousins than I was and I think I'll be rooting for him in any game where I don't otherwise have a rooting interest. But that series really humanizes these guys.

Which is essentially what Belichick has been doing for two decades.   Reid wasn't always on that boat; he ran Westbrook, and to a lesser extent LeSean McCoy, into the ground when in Philly.   It's pretty much economics; the fact is, you can find tough 210 lb guys that can run; what you can't find is 325 lb men that can run a sub-5.0 40.   Belichick pays OL and linebackers/secondary players; I still think that's the right approach.  Guys like LeGarrett Blount and Sony Michel don't like it, but so be it.

KevShmev

Quote from: El Barto on July 20, 2023, 07:31:57 AM
Quote from: KevShmev on July 20, 2023, 07:11:49 AM
Regarding the RB story, one good counterpoint I read this week is that due to their tendency to peak very early in their NFL careers, most never get a chance to capitalize and get a big payday in their primes. Thanks to rookie contracts and the franchise tag, most have hit the wall and are on the downslide by the time they can explore free agency in any real way, and NFL teams simply aren't going to overpay for a position that isn't super valuable anymore.  I do think this is a very good point, but I am not sure what the solution is.  The league cannot change the rules to where RBs cannot be franchised or get to be FAs sooner, for a variety of reasons (the union would never back it since they need to support all players, every other position would then demand the same treatment, etc.).
Yeah, that's a problem, and I don't know the solution, either. I know plenty of people would rather watch QB duels with 900 yds passing and a 47-44 final, but good runners make it a better game for my tastes. I don't want to see the position become expendable.

Agreed.  I love seeing an old school game with a lot of grit and toughness, where a running game takes command.  And it is always something else to see a team with a lead run it down the throats of their opponent in the 4th quarter.  It's like they know it is coming and still cannot stop it.  It gives me nice flashbacks of Terrell Davis.  :biggrin:

Quote from: Kinger on July 20, 2023, 07:36:18 AM
You also have to look at the amount of body damage and football life span in those 2 positions too.  A kicker, if good, can play for 15 years.  No running back can do so.

That makes a great kicker even more valuable then!

cramx3

Quote from: hunnus2000 on July 20, 2023, 07:44:07 AM
Random thought, Saquon has only had one good season and I'm not sure he deserves more money. Just sayin.............

I'm a very big Saquon fan, but this.  He's not worth 15M.  He just hasn't shown he can be on the field consistently and perform consistently (I do understand he's been on some shit Giants teams).  I can't imagine he sits the year though, that would be terrible for his career.  He needs to play.  I think there's some room for negotiating here, but I kind of stand a bit more with the Giants though. 

King Postwhore

Quote from: KevShmev on July 20, 2023, 08:04:13 AM
Quote from: El Barto on July 20, 2023, 07:31:57 AM
Quote from: KevShmev on July 20, 2023, 07:11:49 AM
Regarding the RB story, one good counterpoint I read this week is that due to their tendency to peak very early in their NFL careers, most never get a chance to capitalize and get a big payday in their primes. Thanks to rookie contracts and the franchise tag, most have hit the wall and are on the downslide by the time they can explore free agency in any real way, and NFL teams simply aren't going to overpay for a position that isn't super valuable anymore.  I do think this is a very good point, but I am not sure what the solution is.  The league cannot change the rules to where RBs cannot be franchised or get to be FAs sooner, for a variety of reasons (the union would never back it since they need to support all players, every other position would then demand the same treatment, etc.).
Yeah, that's a problem, and I don't know the solution, either. I know plenty of people would rather watch QB duels with 900 yds passing and a 47-44 final, but good runners make it a better game for my tastes. I don't want to see the position become expendable.

Agreed.  I love seeing an old school game with a lot of grit and toughness, where a running game takes command.  And it is always something else to see a team with a lead run it down the throats of their opponent in the 4th quarter.  It's like they know it is coming and still cannot stop it.  It gives me nice flashbacks of Terrell Davis.  :biggrin:

Quote from: Kinger on July 20, 2023, 07:36:18 AM
You also have to look at the amount of body damage and football life span in those 2 positions too.  A kicker, if good, can play for 15 years.  No running back can do so.

That makes a great kicker even more valuable then!

Oh, I understand but that's not how players look at that. 
"I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'." - Bon Newhart.

El Barto

Quote from: cramx3 on July 20, 2023, 08:08:18 AM
Quote from: hunnus2000 on July 20, 2023, 07:44:07 AM
Random thought, Saquon has only had one good season and I'm not sure he deserves more money. Just sayin.............

I'm a very big Saquon fan, but this.  He's not worth 15M.  He just hasn't shown he can be on the field consistently and perform consistently (I do understand he's been on some shit Giants teams).  I can't imagine he sits the year though, that would be terrible for his career.  He needs to play.  I think there's some room for negotiating here, but I kind of stand a bit more with the Giants though.
As I understand it he's looking for more like 13 w/24 guaranteed over 3 years. The Giants locked in on 11/year for 3 with 22 guaranteed. They're real close, and considering this is probably his last contract, I get why he's holding steady. In any case, the franchise tag will get him about what the team is offering him, so I don't see him holding out.

Stadler

Quote from: El Barto on July 20, 2023, 07:31:57 AM
Quote from: KevShmev on July 20, 2023, 07:11:49 AM
Regarding the RB story, one good counterpoint I read this week is that due to their tendency to peak very early in their NFL careers, most never get a chance to capitalize and get a big payday in their primes. Thanks to rookie contracts and the franchise tag, most have hit the wall and are on the downslide by the time they can explore free agency in any real way, and NFL teams simply aren't going to overpay for a position that isn't super valuable anymore.  I do think this is a very good point, but I am not sure what the solution is.  The league cannot change the rules to where RBs cannot be franchised or get to be FAs sooner, for a variety of reasons (the union would never back it since they need to support all players, every other position would then demand the same treatment, etc.).
Yeah, that's a problem, and I don't know the solution, either. I know plenty of people would rather watch QB duels with 900 yds passing and a 47-44 final, but good runners make it a better game for my tastes. I don't want to see the position become expendable.

Well, I don't think the POSITION is expendable; it's just that you don't need a superstar to deliver those aspects that are necessary. It's like a bass player; you NEED a bass player (...AJFA!  I'm looking at YOU!) but Ian Hill is perfectly capable.  You don't NEED Jaco pastorius in every band, the way you DO need a good drummer and a good front man.  Robert Fripp reportedly taught Boz Burrell all he needed to know (and he went on to be the bass player for Bad Company) to be the bass player - IN KING CRIMSON (following Greg Lake and preceding John Wetton and Tony Levin) because it was harder to find a good singer than it was a sufficient bass player.

Dream Team

Quote from: KevShmev on July 20, 2023, 08:04:13 AM
Quote from: El Barto on July 20, 2023, 07:31:57 AM
Quote from: KevShmev on July 20, 2023, 07:11:49 AM
Regarding the RB story, one good counterpoint I read this week is that due to their tendency to peak very early in their NFL careers, most never get a chance to capitalize and get a big payday in their primes. Thanks to rookie contracts and the franchise tag, most have hit the wall and are on the downslide by the time they can explore free agency in any real way, and NFL teams simply aren't going to overpay for a position that isn't super valuable anymore.  I do think this is a very good point, but I am not sure what the solution is.  The league cannot change the rules to where RBs cannot be franchised or get to be FAs sooner, for a variety of reasons (the union would never back it since they need to support all players, every other position would then demand the same treatment, etc.).
Yeah, that's a problem, and I don't know the solution, either. I know plenty of people would rather watch QB duels with 900 yds passing and a 47-44 final, but good runners make it a better game for my tastes. I don't want to see the position become expendable.

Agreed.  I love seeing an old school game with a lot of grit and toughness, where a running game takes command.  And it is always something else to see a team with a lead run it down the throats of their opponent in the 4th quarter.  It's like they know it is coming and still cannot stop it.  It gives me nice flashbacks of Terrell Davis.  :biggrin:

Quote from: Kinger on July 20, 2023, 07:36:18 AM
You also have to look at the amount of body damage and football life span in those 2 positions too.  A kicker, if good, can play for 15 years.  No running back can do so.

That makes a great kicker even more valuable then!

TD was amazing those 2 SB years and absolutely completely saved Elway's legacy. I mean COMPLETELY.

KevShmev

I wouldn't say he saved his legacy, as Elway was already HOF-bound, but they certainly don't win those rings without TD being the catalyst.

cramx3

and Barkley signed. Got some incentive bonus's which I like to see.

KevShmev

Wise move by Barkley to take what he could get.  Will be interesting if he decides he cannot play any time he gets a scratch.

hefdaddy42

Anyone else enjoying the Quarterback series on Netflix?  I think it's been pretty good (I have 2 more episodes to go).

Or the new season of Hard Knocks on HBO?
Quote from: BlobVanDam on December 11, 2014, 08:19:46 PMHef is right on all things. Except for when I disagree with him. In which case he's probably still right.

Dream Team

Quote from: hefdaddy42 on August 10, 2023, 09:38:52 AM
Anyone else enjoying the Quarterback series on Netflix?  I think it's been pretty good (I have 2 more episodes to go).

Or the new season of Hard Knocks on HBO?

It's a great series, we talked about it some in the "What are you watching?" thread.

faizoff

Quote from: hefdaddy42 on August 10, 2023, 09:38:52 AM
Anyone else enjoying the Quarterback series on Netflix?  I think it's been pretty good (I have 2 more episodes to go).


I watched it, I enjoyed it quite a bit.




Posted about it here

Quote
I completed the series a few days ago. It's not a bad watch, I don't think the hardcore NFL viewer is the main target. My wife was very interested in the family side of things, and they feature that a decent amount. Though if anything I'd watch episode 4 if you had to just sample one episode, it's the one that is most football related. They talk about the complexity of the playbook and some of the on the spot improvs that happen or don't.


The Mahomes dick sucking is unfortunately sprinkled throughout, I mean at this point I think we're just going to have to have it in our face year in and year out. The guy is no doubt super talented and you'll see several times in the doc and his complete focus all things NFL related. Those parts are quite nice to see, and in case you forget that he's the greatest footballer ever, there will be several reminders throughout. That was a without a doubt the most annoying thing about the series. Kirk Cousins was great, love his temperament throughout. I think his coverage was the most balanced among them all. Several key inflection points were featured. I was hoping for more Mariota side as he was the one with the most to lose but they really cut his stuff short just when it got going.


The series has already been renewed for a 2nd season and am curious who they follow this season.

hunnus2000

So was anyone else underwhelmed by this year's HOF class?

I mean - D-Ware - OK, Chuck Howley - definitely YES!

The rest - meh....

TheCountOfNYC

Quote from: hunnus2000 on August 10, 2023, 12:17:59 PM
So was anyone else underwhelmed by this year's HOF class?

I mean - D-Ware - OK, Chuck Howley - definitely YES!

The rest - meh....

Darrelle Revis is one of the greatest corners to ever play. Joe Klecko is the only player to make the Pro Bowl at every position on the defensive line. Don Coryell is the father of the modern passing game. Ronde Barber is another all time great corner. Joe Thomas made 10 straight Pro Bowls and played over 10,000 consecutive snaps, starting every game of his career, the true greatest Ironman in NFL history.

El Barto

At some point they're gonna have to let Devin Hester in just to break the lock on ST players getting in. Seems like this would have been a good year. Adam Vinatieri is a lock for 2025, but I don't think that'll clear the way for core special teamers.

WilliamMunny

Quote from: hunnus2000 on August 10, 2023, 12:17:59 PM
So was anyone else underwhelmed by this year's HOF class?

I mean - D-Ware - OK, Chuck Howley - definitely YES!

The rest - meh....

Ahem, GO BROWNS!  :metal

Dream Team

Wow that scumbag Ruggs only got 3 to 10 for going 150mph at .16 BAC and causing that girl to fry in her car. Just unbelievable.

King Postwhore

Quote from: El Barto on August 10, 2023, 12:36:08 PM
At some point they're gonna have to let Devin Hester in just to break the lock on ST players getting in. Seems like this would have been a good year. Adam Vinatieri is a lock for 2025, but I don't think that'll clear the way for core special teamers.

Name a kicker guaranteed like Vinatieri?  No one. The nan's middle name is "Clutch."
"I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'." - Bon Newhart.