2023 NFL Thread v Super Bowl matchup: Chiefs vs. 49ers

[King Postwhore]

We were talking last night about football, and it surprised me how many people are bought into - and accepting of - the idea that the NFL is at least partially scripted.  I can't imagine the rise of betting around the game (which is staggering and a little disconcerting at the same time) if it was actually scripted.  I'm sure there are preferences that result in more income for the league, but I can't imagine with the billions that are changing hands over wagering that they would chance blowing up the whole thing over a "preference".

I'm told people actually wager on scripted WWE events. There's no limit to the insanity! 

It's scary to think how many people think this.

[Stadler]

I know many like to poke fun at Rodgers for his darkness retreat and all his extracurricular activity, but I view it as taking all kinds of mind-altering drugs on the side, and plenty of us here do that (some more than others, haha), so I don't have any issues with that.

I'm kind of with you on this. He's a free spirit.  I get it if a team doesn't want that (I know I wouldn't) but that kind of thing always seems to me to be in the eye of the beholder.  Neil Peart is a free spirit and we celebrate him and buy his books. Aaron Rodgers is a free spirit and "he's a dick!".   Though, in some interviews, he IS a dick, so there's that.  But it's not because of his ayahuasca or whatever.  Fuck, I wish I could take a four-day darkness retreat; imagine the emails/voicemails I'd have when I return! 

[Stadler]

We were talking last night about football, and it surprised me how many people are bought into - and accepting of - the idea that the NFL is at least partially scripted.  I can't imagine the rise of betting around the game (which is staggering and a little disconcerting at the same time) if it was actually scripted.  I'm sure there are preferences that result in more income for the league, but I can't imagine with the billions that are changing hands over wagering that they would chance blowing up the whole thing over a "preference".

I'm told people actually wager on scripted WWE events. There's no limit to the insanity! 

It's scary to think how many people think this.

Hear me out here...  I can SORT of see this.  If you don't know what the outcome is - and the people you're betting with/against don't know the outcome - then it doesn't really matter if it's scripted or not.  My concern with it in football is that the dollars are SO big - Mohegan Sun in Connecticut committed to giving $1.25 BILLION with a B to the State over the next three years* - that it might tempt people - including players and referees - to, I don't know, call penalties late in the game.  Tank what seem like meaningless games late in the season.  Whatever.   


*That means they anticipate netting upwards of $12 BILLION with a B (or more) during that same period. That's insane.  ALL on sports outcomes. 

[King Postwhore]

I don't think the NFL is the WWE.

[Dream Team]

We were talking last night about football, and it surprised me how many people are bought into - and accepting of - the idea that the NFL is at least partially scripted.  I can't imagine the rise of betting around the game (which is staggering and a little disconcerting at the same time) if it was actually scripted.  I'm sure there are preferences that result in more income for the league, but I can't imagine with the billions that are changing hands over wagering that they would chance blowing up the whole thing over a "preference".

I'm told people actually wager on scripted WWE events. There's no limit to the insanity! 

It's scary to think how many people think this.

I'm talking about literal wrestling, not the NFL.

This Jimmy G to the Raiders thing is pretty interesting. He's a lot better than the average fan might realize, though probably not quite as good as his biggest fans think he is. But I don't see how he avoids finishing last in that division; Sean Payton will have the Broncos playing a lot better.

[King Postwhore]

How did I miss that?!

Though, I have heard so many people thinking the NFL is scripted.

[bosk1]

This Jimmy G to the Raiders thing is pretty interesting. He's a lot better than the average fan might realize, though probably not quite as good as his biggest fans think he is. But I don't see how he avoids finishing last in that division; Sean Payton will have the Broncos playing a lot better.

I think most know his worth.  Depending on what criteria you use, he is easily top 10 in the league, and possibly as high as top 3.  But hard to say how that will translate into how well they do in the division.  There's a lot more going on with that team than just the QB position.  And it's hard to say how the other 3 teams will perform.  I would say the Raiders should at least be competitive, regardless of whether they are first, last, or somewhere in between.  But we'll see. 

[King Postwhore]

Jimmy G is a winner.  His issue is staying on the field & the ability to fight through injuries.

[hefdaddy42]

Jimmy G is a winner.  His issue is staying on the field & the ability to fight through injuries.

And untimely turnovers.

[Dream Team]

He was also in a perfect system with Shanahan where he wasn't asked to carry the load and had great play-action opportunities. But as Bosk said, we'll have to wait and see. But it's absolutely true his efficiency metrics are extremely impressive.

[King Postwhore]

Jimmy G is a winner.  His issue is staying on the field & the ability to fight through injuries.

And untimely turnovers.

His career stats aren't that bad.  The most INT's are 12 and 13.  I think it's the playoff miscues that people remember.

[bosk1]

Jimmy G is a winner.  His issue is staying on the field & the ability to fight through injuries.

And untimely turnovers.

His career stats aren't that bad.  The most INT's are 12 and 13.  I think it's the playoff miscues that people remember.

Which is odd, because his numbers in that regard are on par with and, in many cases, better than most.  Better than, for example, Mahomes.  If I had to guess, I would say all the hate aimed toward him has to be race-based.  OK, not really, but I think it's required to say that in any discussion comparing players, so I'm just trying to comply with the norm.

[hefdaddy42]

Well, I didn't mention an ungodly number of turnovers, just that they are untimely.

[King Postwhore]

Well, I didn't mention an ungodly number of turnovers, just that they are untimely.

That is true.

[bosk1]

Are turnovers ever timely?  What does that even mean?

[Deathless]

Well Jimmy just lost one of his top targets, as Darren Waller is being traded to the Giants for a 3rd-round pick.

[pg1067]

Are turnovers ever timely?  What does that even mean?

Untimely:  The Condors are leading 33-31 with 1:30 remaining and the ball on its own 40.  The Condors hand off the ball to Bob Surehands, who fumbles.  The Squids recover the ball.

Not untimely:  The Hummingbirds are beating the Mastodons 42-10 with a minute left on the clock.  The Hummingbird's punter drops the snap and the Mastodons recover.  The Mastodons score on the final play of the game to make the final score 42-17.

[Stadler]

This Jimmy G to the Raiders thing is pretty interesting. He's a lot better than the average fan might realize, though probably not quite as good as his biggest fans think he is. But I don't see how he avoids finishing last in that division; Sean Payton will have the Broncos playing a lot better.

I think most know his worth.  Depending on what criteria you use, he is easily top 10 in the league, and possibly as high as top 3.  But hard to say how that will translate into how well they do in the division.  There's a lot more going on with that team than just the QB position.  And it's hard to say how the other 3 teams will perform.  I would say the Raiders should at least be competitive, regardless of whether they are first, last, or somewhere in between.  But we'll see.

I largely agree with that.  Derek Carr didn't blow all those leads last year.  I agree that the problem with the Raiders wasn't at the QB position.  I'm a fan of Carr, and a big fan of Jimmy G., but I'm not sold yet on McDaniels as a head coach.  And unless there's "head case" in there somewhere that I don't know about, the Giants just scored a BIG pick-up there. That Jones signing might not suck after all.

[Stadler]

Are turnovers ever timely?  What does that even mean?

Untimely:  The Condors are leading 33-31 with 1:30 remaining and the ball on its own 40.  The Condors hand off the ball to Bob Surehands, who fumbles.  The Squids recover the ball.

Not untimely:  The Hummingbirds are beating the Mastodons 42-10 with a minute left on the clock.  The Hummingbird's punter drops the snap and the Mastodons recover.  The Mastodons score on the final play of the game to make the final score 42-17.

Except, I had the under -55 on the Hummingbirds/Mastodons game.  Fuckers! 

[hefdaddy42]

Are turnovers ever timely?  What does that even mean?

Untimely:  The Condors are leading 33-31 with 1:30 remaining and the ball on its own 40.  The Condors hand off the ball to Bob Surehands, who fumbles.  The Squids recover the ball.

Not untimely:  The Hummingbirds are beating the Mastodons 42-10 with a minute left on the clock.  The Hummingbird's punter drops the snap and the Mastodons recover.  The Mastodons score on the final play of the game to make the final score 42-17.

Exactly.

[bosk1]

Are turnovers ever timely?  What does that even mean?

Untimely:  The Condors are leading 33-31 with 1:30 remaining and the ball on its own 40.  The Condors hand off the ball to Bob Surehands, who fumbles.  The Squids recover the ball.

Not untimely:  The Hummingbirds are beating the Mastodons 42-10 with a minute left on the clock.  The Hummingbird's punter drops the snap and the Mastodons recover.  The Mastodons score on the final play of the game to make the final score 42-17.

Exactly.

Yeah, and I don't think those types of examples really have anything to do with the present conversation.  That's such an extreme example that it doesn't really impact the fact that the vast majority of turnovers matter, and "timely" vs. "untimely" turnovers isn't a thing.  But anyway, if we are comparing starting QBs (which we are), the Hummingbirds probably don't have their starting QB in at 42-7 with a minute left on the clock (even aside from the fact that you threw a punter into the mix for some reason).  Not really seeing the "timely" vs. "untimely" thing being a factor when comparing Garoppolo's turnovers to other starting QBs. 

[KevShmev]

Well, I didn't mention an ungodly number of turnovers, just that they are untimely.

The question is what is worse: untimely turnovers or running out of the back of the end zone for a safety? 

[hefdaddy42]

Are turnovers ever timely?  What does that even mean?

Untimely:  The Condors are leading 33-31 with 1:30 remaining and the ball on its own 40.  The Condors hand off the ball to Bob Surehands, who fumbles.  The Squids recover the ball.

Not untimely:  The Hummingbirds are beating the Mastodons 42-10 with a minute left on the clock.  The Hummingbird's punter drops the snap and the Mastodons recover.  The Mastodons score on the final play of the game to make the final score 42-17.

Exactly.

Yeah, and I don't think those types of examples really have anything to do with the present conversation.  That's such an extreme example that it doesn't really impact the fact that the vast majority of turnovers matter, and "timely" vs. "untimely" turnovers isn't a thing.  But anyway, if we are comparing starting QBs (which we are), the Hummingbirds probably don't have their starting QB in at 42-7 with a minute left on the clock (even aside from the fact that you threw a punter into the mix for some reason).  Not really seeing the "timely" vs. "untimely" thing being a factor when comparing Garoppolo's turnovers to other starting QBs.

OK

[Samsara]

My Jets are headed down a path that will lead them nowhere. Aaron Rodgers is a nutcase. He's 39, nicked up a lot, and from what Packers fans tell me, except for a few people that are his friends, a locker room cancer.

They should have offered Carr a contract. At this point, whatever they give up for Rodgers is too much. Yes, if he stays healthy, the Jets may make the playoffs and win A game, but they aren't winning the Super Bowl. They could have made the playoffs this upcoming season without Rodgers and someone serviceable behind center....and retained all their youth. We all know the Packers aren't cutting Rodgers loose without talent and a first rounder. And that is way too much for a 39 year old QB.

The parallels to signing Favre are way too obvious. Yes, it led to a fascinating half season before he blew out his arm, and then it crumbled. Then he went to the Vikings and had an MVP caliber season (not sure, but he might have won it). But regardless, the move for Rodgers is short term thinking. Very short-sighted short term thinking from a GM worried about his job. So he tries to make  a splash and will put said team on a bad path.

To do, Joe Douglas has been good for the Jets. Obviously we have a top young CB, WR, and RB. The lines are being built well. Dynamic defense. They missed on Wilson. So cut him and try again, or get a younger FA. Or at least one that will settle and lead a locker room. Not divide or alienate it.

I hope I'm wrong, but if the Jets trade for Rodgers, it's not going to end well.

[KevShmev]

The Jets should tell Rodgers to go f himself, but they are so desperate to win that they are the needy franchise kowtowing to his asks.  This whole "I will agree to the trade if you sign this guy, that guy and that other guy" bull shit is just ridiculous.  So basically, Rodgers wants the receiving corps he had in GB, the one most agree wasn't good enough for a QB of his stature. 

[TAC]

The Jets should tell Rodgers to go f himself,

This. He's the Kyrie of football.

[Stadler]

A thought occurred to me:  why would Robert Salah want any of that on his team?  He's a smart enough guy, he's a culture guy, he's a detail guy... I can't imagine he'd be willing to undermine all he's worked for to have a guy in who might form his own clicks, and who might be a renegade.  Isn't that really the fundamental problem with Zack Wilson?  Wasn't Wilson's biggest crime that he threw half his team under the bus in a press conference? Hasn't he seen any of Aaron Rodgers' press conferences?

[hefdaddy42]

The Jets should tell Rodgers to go f himself,

This. He's the Kyrie of football.

I don't know.  That's going a bit far.

I would much rather have Rodgers on my football team than Kyrie on by basketball team.

[King Postwhore]

The Jets should tell Rodgers to go f himself,

This. He's the Kyrie of football.

I don't know.  That's going a bit far.

I would much rather have Rodgers on my football team than Kyrie on by basketball team.

Both won 1 championship. 

[KevShmev]

Yeah, but even with all of his silliness, Rodgers will still go down as one of the best quarterbacks in the history of the league.

Irving won't go down as the best anything in his sport except for maybe best jackass of his generation, and even then, he will have to fight Draymond Green for that distinction (and you know Green will punch first, just ask Jordan Poole).

[hefdaddy42]

The Jets should tell Rodgers to go f himself,

This. He's the Kyrie of football.

I don't know.  That's going a bit far.

I would much rather have Rodgers on my football team than Kyrie on by basketball team.

Both won 1 championship.

...and?

Kyrie is a huge douchenozzle.

[King Postwhore]

Both are. But Kyrie is the king of douches.

[Deathless]

A thought occurred to me:  why would Robert Salah want any of that on his team?  He's a smart enough guy, he's a culture guy, he's a detail guy... I can't imagine he'd be willing to undermine all he's worked for to have a guy in who might form his own clicks, and who might be a renegade.  Isn't that really the fundamental problem with Zack Wilson?  Wasn't Wilson's biggest crime that he threw half his team under the bus in a press conference? Hasn't he seen any of Aaron Rodgers' press conferences?

I'm not sure what the power structure is like in that organization, but I'm sure management and the owners (like many) will be desperate to get a guy like Rodgers. Especially if they feel they are close to the next level or think he can help them compete for a championship. It's going to be really tough in that division though, the Bills are still going to be strong and the Dolphins have improved quite a bit already (though Tua is a big question mark).

[Skeever]

The Jets should tell Rodgers to go f himself, but they are so desperate to win that they are the needy franchise kowtowing to his asks.  This whole "I will agree to the trade if you sign this guy, that guy and that other guy" bull shit is just ridiculous.  So basically, Rodgers wants the receiving corps he had in GB, the one most agree wasn't good enough for a QB of his stature. 

They signed one guy from the Packers right? Come on. At least look into the takes you're throwing out there for a second before you blindly parrot what some sportscaster has said.

And at this point, it would be telling the Packers to go f themselves. Obviously the two teams had an understanding, and the Packers are negotiating in bad faith since the Jets have no other options.

[Dream Team]

Most of these latest player moves, especially JuJu, show that most players actually chase money not rings, even if they already have millions. I wonder what percentage actually value winning above money?