Author Topic: 2023 NFL Thread v Super Bowl matchup: Chiefs vs. 49ers  (Read 58958 times)

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Offline Jamesman42

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Re: 2023 NFL Thread
« Reply #420 on: August 11, 2023, 08:04:53 PM »
I get scared when I see Justin Tucker coming on the field to win a game.

Offline King Postwhore

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Re: 2023 NFL Thread
« Reply #421 on: August 11, 2023, 08:14:38 PM »
He's deadly.   💯
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
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Offline El Barto

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Re: 2023 NFL Thread
« Reply #422 on: August 11, 2023, 10:17:47 PM »
At some point they're gonna have to let Devin Hester in just to break the lock on ST players getting in. Seems like this would have been a good year. Adam Vinatieri is a lock for 2025, but I don't think that'll clear the way for core special teamers.

Name a kicker guaranteed like Vinatieri?  No one. The nan's middle name is "Clutch."
Justin Tucker. They're both FBHoFers. I think Tucker's probably the better kicker over the long haul, but Vinatieri's had the opportunity to make so many clutch kicks, earning him 3 rings.. I've got my favourite, but I'm not prepared to call one of them better than the other.
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Offline King Postwhore

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Re: 2023 NFL Thread
« Reply #423 on: August 12, 2023, 05:40:52 AM »
Definitely. I was thinking up to Vinatieri.  Who kicker is in before?  Gary Yepremian?  I also don't think a kicker got in before on their 1st ballot or am I wrong?
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
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Offline hunnus2000

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Re: 2023 NFL Thread
« Reply #424 on: August 12, 2023, 07:40:27 AM »
Definitely. I was thinking up to Vinatieri.  Who kicker is in before?  Gary Yepremian?  I also don't think a kicker got in before on their 1st ballot or am I wrong?

Not trying to be a "know it all nanny" but it was Garo not Gary.... :coolio

Offline King Postwhore

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Re: 2023 NFL Thread
« Reply #425 on: August 12, 2023, 07:44:36 AM »
Oops, yes!  He's the only kicker I can think of thst got in. 

Oh, and Morten Anderson.
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
"Oh, I am definitely a jackass!" - TAC

Offline El Barto

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Re: 2023 NFL Thread
« Reply #426 on: August 12, 2023, 10:39:55 AM »
Garo never got in. The one thing he's famous for is the reason he'll never be enshrined. Groza, Blanda, and Morton Anderson are the only kickers in the Hall, and the first two are in more for other reasons than kicking. Anderson's the only pure kicker in until Vinatieri, who's almost certainly a first ballot guy. I just think there are a few non-kickers whose contributions to ST need to be recognized. How many games have Steve Tasker and Slater directly impacted? Hester probably more so. Not just for the returns, but for the impact he had when he didn't get to return. He had a Revis Island kind of effect.
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Offline pg1067

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Re: 2023 NFL Thread
« Reply #427 on: August 13, 2023, 06:24:12 PM »
So was anyone else underwhelmed by this year's HOF class?

I mean - D-Ware - OK, Chuck Howley - definitely YES!

The rest - meh....

That's fair because the class was mostly (1) linemen (not exciting), (2) LONG-retired guys that no one under 40 saw play, and/or (3) dead guys.

Ronde Barber and Darrelle Revis - I was thinking about this a week or two ago.  Defensive backs are hard to judge.  When they're REALLY good, you don't hear a lot about them because offenses stay away from them.  Reavis got a lot of media attention for a couple years, but I otherwise never heard much.  Barber didn't even get that much.  I would have said both were no more than HOVG'ers (Hall of Very Good), but like I said, defensive backs are difficult.

Dan Coryell - Posthumous inductions are a bit underwhelming, but he should've been in a LONG time ago.

Chuck Howley - Before my time.  The only thing I know about him is that he was (and still is) the only Super Bowl MVP from a losing team.

Joe Klecko - He was overshadowed by Mark Gastineau, but he was much better.  No one wanted to run at Klecko.

Ken Riley - Mostly before my time.  I remember him, but I don't remember much about him.

Joe Thomas - One of the few offensive linemen to stand out because he virtually never allowed a sack on a mostly atrocious team.  But o-linemen aren't exciting.

Zack Thomas - This is the one that's surprising to me.  A definite HOVG'er.

DeMarcus Ware - Another non-flashy guy, but definitely a guy you didn't want to deal with.


At some point they're gonna have to let Devin Hester in just to break the lock on ST players getting in. Seems like this would have been a good year. Adam Vinatieri is a lock for 2025, but I don't think that'll clear the way for core special teamers.

Steve Tasker should be in, and Matthew Slater seems like a no-brainer.


Definitely. I was thinking up to Vinatieri.  Who kicker is in before?  Gary Yepremian?  I also don't think a kicker got in before on their 1st ballot or am I wrong?

The three guys in the HOF who were primarily kickers are Morten Andersen, Lou Groza and Jan Stenerud (Groza was before my time, but I know him mostly as a kicker - the guy's nickname was "The Toe").  Stenerud was the first pure kicker to be inducted, with his induction happening six years after his last season as a player.  I can't really think of another kicker who had the combination of longevity, reliability and big moments like Vinatieri and Tucker did, although Jason Elam has a soft spot in my heart.
"There's a bass solo in a song called Metropolis where I do a bass solo."  John Myung

Offline King Postwhore

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Re: 2023 NFL Thread
« Reply #428 on: August 13, 2023, 06:26:45 PM »
It's weird that so little clutch kickers are in.
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
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Offline pg1067

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Re: 2023 NFL Thread
« Reply #429 on: August 13, 2023, 07:03:50 PM »
According to a few "best kickers of all-time" lists, these are the best eligible kickers not in the HOF:

- Jason Hanson (20 seasons with the Lions; career 82.4% FG%)

- Gary Anderson (22 seasons with several teams; 80.1% FG%, but probably best known for a missed FG)

- Jim Bakken (17 seasons with the Cardinals; only a 63.1% FG%)

- Matt Stover (18 seasons with the Browns, Ravens and Colts; 83.7% FG%)

- Mark Mosely (17 seasons, mostly with the Redskins; only a 65.6% FG%)

- Jason Elam (17 seasons, mostly with the Broncos; 80.7% FG% and a 63-yard FG)

Note that most of the lists I looked at have a lot of active guys.  It seems we're in the golden age of kickers.
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Offline King Postwhore

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Re: 2023 NFL Thread
« Reply #430 on: August 13, 2023, 07:10:13 PM »
You left off Jason Elam, Gary Anderson, Stephen Gostkowski, Justin Tucker.  I know Tucker is still going  UT I think the league looked down on the importance of kickers

I know Billl Belichick hasn't over 2 decades.
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
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Offline pg1067

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Re: 2023 NFL Thread
« Reply #431 on: August 14, 2023, 09:10:26 AM »
You left off Jason Elam, Gary Anderson, Stephen Gostkowski, Justin Tucker.  I know Tucker is still going  UT I think the league looked down on the importance of kickers

I know Billl Belichick hasn't over 2 decades.

Anderson was the second guy on the list, and Elam was the last guy I listed, and I expressly wrote, "best eligible kickers not in the HOF."  Gostkowski and Tucker aren't yet eligible (nor are Prater, Dawson, Bryant or Gano).
"There's a bass solo in a song called Metropolis where I do a bass solo."  John Myung

Offline El Barto

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Re: 2023 NFL Thread
« Reply #432 on: August 14, 2023, 09:47:09 AM »
You left off Jason Elam, Gary Anderson, Stephen Gostkowski, Justin Tucker.  I know Tucker is still going  UT I think the league looked down on the importance of kickers

I know Billl Belichick hasn't over 2 decades.

Anderson was the second guy on the list, and Elam was the last guy I listed, and I expressly wrote, "best eligible kickers not in the HOF."  Gostkowski and Tucker aren't yet eligible (nor are Prater, Dawson, Bryant or Gano).
Based on what we've seen none of them are getting in accept Tucker. Years of exclusion has simply set the bar too high.
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Offline pg1067

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Re: 2023 NFL Thread
« Reply #433 on: August 14, 2023, 12:04:31 PM »
Seems to me that the years of exclusion/ignoring the position have left the bar extremely low, not high.

Stenerud is in for a 19-season career with these numbers:

- One Super Bowl title
- 66.8 FG% (75.33% from 30-39 yards; 51.33% from 40-49 yards; 26.56% from 50+ yards)
- 96.5 XP% (in the chip shot era)
- 1,699 points
- 1x 1st-team and 2x 2nd-team All Pro; 6x Pro Bowl

Compare a guy like Elam (17 seasons):

- Two Super Bowl titles
- 80.7 FG% (89.80% from 30-39 yards; 66.07% from 40-49 yards; 60% from 50+ yards)
- 99.4 XP% (chip shot era)
- 1,983 points
- 3x 2nd-team All pro; 3x Pro Bowl

I think it's a simple matter of no one being a vocal advocate for kickers, who are often seen as "not real football players," which is awfully amusing since every team's leading scorer is usually the kicker.
"There's a bass solo in a song called Metropolis where I do a bass solo."  John Myung

Offline El Barto

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Re: 2023 NFL Thread
« Reply #434 on: August 14, 2023, 12:39:36 PM »
Wasn't Stenerud the guy who brought soccer style kicking to the NFL? If he was that gave him a real leg up, given how the league changed after that. In any case, I think they've just kind of established that only the best of the best of the best kickers get in. Kind of lame, really, but I don't see them opening the floodgates at this point.
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Offline pg1067

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Re: 2023 NFL Thread
« Reply #435 on: August 14, 2023, 03:37:06 PM »
Per Stenerud's Wikipedia page:  After coming to the United States (specifically, Montana State in Bozeman) on a ski jumping scholarship, "his right leg's prowess was observed by [the] basketball head coach, . . . [who] notified [the] football head coach, . . . [who] offered [Stenerud] a tryout."  He kicked a then record 59-yard field goal and was an All-American in both football and ski jumping (I'm guessing the only person who can make that claim).  As a pro, "Stenerud was one of the first professional football players to be used as a dedicated kicker . . . [and] one of the first placekickers to use the 'soccer style,' a technique the Hungarian-born Pete Gogolak had recently introduced in the AFL.  During his first three years as professional, the last seasons for the AFL, Stenerud hit 70% of his field goals, compared with a 53% average for the other kickers in the AFL and NFL."

This was my first exposure to Stenerud:



Ten-year old me thought he looked about 90 years old!
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Offline TAC

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Re: 2023 NFL Thread
« Reply #436 on: August 14, 2023, 03:38:13 PM »
I feel like I had that run of football cards.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
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Offline pg1067

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Re: 2023 NFL Thread
« Reply #437 on: August 14, 2023, 03:45:35 PM »
I feel like I had that run of football cards.

That was my first year collecting football cards.  My friend and I used to ride our bikes to a local store called Stop n Go (essentially a 7-11/Circle K type of store).  One of us would buy a candy bar or something, and the other would stuff half a dozen packs of football cards in our pants.  We probably got away with 50-100 packs over the course of a few months until we got caught.  I had the entire set from 1977 except for Glen Edwards, a safety for the Steelers.  Unfortunately, I ended up selling my cards for peanuts.  This one is now worth a shitload of money:

"There's a bass solo in a song called Metropolis where I do a bass solo."  John Myung

Offline King Postwhore

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Re: 2023 NFL Thread
« Reply #438 on: August 14, 2023, 04:21:12 PM »
I guess Zeke Eliot is signing a 1 year 6 million with incentives contract.
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
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Offline El Barto

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Re: 2023 NFL Thread
« Reply #439 on: August 14, 2023, 05:12:09 PM »
I guess Zeke Eliot is signing a 1 year 6 million with incentives contract.
That should be a real good fit. I know he's past his prime, but he can run, catch, and block. He should be a reliable 3rd down back with one of the youngsters spelling Stevenson. It also doesn't hurt since they're playing Dallas early in the season.
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Offline King Postwhore

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Re: 2023 NFL Thread
« Reply #440 on: August 14, 2023, 06:19:02 PM »
Great blockers and is a very good relieving back. Completely agree. With spell Rhamondre Stevenson a bit.
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
"Oh, I am definitely a jackass!" - TAC

Offline TAC

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Re: 2023 NFL Thread
« Reply #441 on: August 14, 2023, 06:43:08 PM »
Great blockers and is a very good relieving back. Completely agree. With spell Rhamondre Stevenson a bit.

So he'll be relieving Rhamondre? :neverusethis:
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline King Postwhore

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Re: 2023 NFL Thread
« Reply #442 on: August 14, 2023, 06:45:42 PM »
Great blockers and is a very good relieving back. Completely agree. With spell Rhamondre Stevenson a bit.

So he'll be relieving Rhamondre? :neverusethis:

 :facepalm: :lol
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
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Offline cramx3

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Re: 2023 NFL Thread
« Reply #443 on: August 15, 2023, 08:38:50 AM »
Wasn't Stenerud the guy who brought soccer style kicking to the NFL?

I thought that was Ray Finkle

Offline TheCountOfNYC

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Re: 2023 NFL Thread
« Reply #444 on: August 16, 2023, 05:07:12 AM »
Dalvin Cook to the Jets. If these guys all mesh together as a team, the Jets are scary this year.
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Offline lordxizor

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Re: 2023 NFL Thread
« Reply #445 on: August 16, 2023, 08:06:21 AM »
Dalvin Cook to the Jets. If these guys all mesh together as a team, the Jets are scary this year.
Glad he landed somewhere. I was sad to see him leave Minnesota. He's a great player. But I get that it's a business first and he was significantly overpaid for the value he brought as a running back.

Offline Jamesman42

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Re: 2023 NFL Thread
« Reply #446 on: August 16, 2023, 06:29:49 PM »
Dalvin Cook to the Jets. If these guys all mesh together as a team, the Jets are scary this year.

What's the code for the barf emoji?

Offline Skeever

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Re: 2023 NFL Thread
« Reply #447 on: August 17, 2023, 02:42:07 PM »
Dalvin Cook to the Jets. If these guys all mesh together as a team, the Jets are scary this year.

I have my doubts while the o-line is a massive vulnerability.
I think that's part of why Rogers may have taken the pay cut. It might take 2 years for the team to really come together fully, especially if the O-Line isn't right. 

Offline T-ski

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Re: 2023 NFL Thread
« Reply #448 on: August 18, 2023, 06:54:05 AM »
Have my fantasy draft over the weekend. Anybody have sleepers they’re high on? Players to avoid?
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Offline pg1067

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Re: 2023 NFL Thread
« Reply #449 on: August 18, 2023, 09:10:05 AM »
Have my fantasy draft over the weekend. Anybody have sleepers they’re high on? Players to avoid?

Mine is on Sunday, and I haven't even begun to think about it.
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Offline T-ski

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Re: 2023 NFL Thread
« Reply #450 on: August 21, 2023, 08:57:36 PM »
Here’s the fantasy team I’ve got (10 team ppr)…

QB - Fields
RB - Henry, Mattison, Montgomery, McKinnon, Wilson Jr., Joshua Kelley
WR - Kupp, Olave, Hollywood Brown, Dotson, Nico Collins, Gallup
TE - Pitts
D - Saints
K - Dicker
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Offline pg1067

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Re: 2023 NFL Thread
« Reply #451 on: August 21, 2023, 10:36:14 PM »
My team (10 team league):

QB - Allen, Goff, Purdy
RB - McCaffrey, Pacheco, Gibson
WR - Samuel, Jeudy, Cooks, Beckham
TE - Hockenson, Conklin
K - Tucker
D - Eagles, Jaguars
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Offline Dream Team

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Re: 2023 NFL Thread
« Reply #452 on: August 22, 2023, 08:10:23 AM »
My draft isn't until Labor Day. Been on a bad losing streak, won 2 years in a row back in the day when I had Todd Gurley in his prime but been bad since. My weakness lately is probably I always try to get a Lamar Jackson/Jalen Hurts/Justin Field type too early in the draft and end up getting screwed on running backs.

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Re: 2023 NFL Thread
« Reply #453 on: August 22, 2023, 08:14:20 AM »
I'm feeling great about my JETS this year, which means something bad is going to happen.  :lol To be honest, the team spent all this money at impact positions, but didn't shore up the offensive line. That's going to be trouble with a 40 year old QB.

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Offline El Barto

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Re: 2023 NFL Thread
« Reply #454 on: August 22, 2023, 08:57:33 AM »
I'm feeling great about my JETS this year, which means something bad is going to happen.  :lol To be honest, the team spent all this money at impact positions, but didn't shore up the offensive line. That's going to be trouble with a 40 year old QB.

I don't do fantasy football any longer, but loved it when I did.
Don't worry. It's not like they play in a sack-happy division or anything.  :lol
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