2023 NFL Thread v Super Bowl matchup: Chiefs vs. 49ers

[Dream Team]

Seems like every year about 50% of the playoff teams change. It’s extremely difficult to predict but I’m thinking the AFC may have less turnover than usual. I think the Ravens miss and maybe the Patriots or Steelers replace them.

NFC, I think the Giants, Bucs, Seahawks are replaced by Saints, Rams, Lions. Or possibly Packers if Rodgers stays.  After free agency and the draft I’ll probably revise these predictions.

[faizoff]

Bucs are going to be really bad this season. They're going to lose many star and key players due to their cap situation.

I don't begrudge management for doing what they did to kick the can down the road. They got a great three years being competitive and a superbowl out of it. Bowles will probably be given another couple of years and when they truly hit rock bottom, that's when he'll get fired is my guess.

[El Barto]

Bucs are going to be really bad this season. They're going to lose many star and key players due to their cap situation.

I don't begrudge management for doing what they did to kick the can down the road. They got a great three years being competitive and a superbowl out of it. Bowles will probably be given another couple of years and when they truly hit rock bottom, that's when he'll get fired is my guess.

I think it's the nature of the game now, and I think it's a damn shame. A lot of teams are becoming cyclical, building up for a few years, selling the farm for one final push at it all, falling apart, and then finally collapsing ahead of a major rebuild. I suppose if you want 3 good years and a shot at a trophy for every 12 years it makes sense. The situation TB is in is incredibly bad. I was wondering the other day if they might be the first team to really embrace tanking given how much they're having to unload. They should be selling players for draft picks right now. Get ready for a massive rebuild over the next few years.

[cramx3]

Pretty hard to create dynasties. I think a lot of teams would be very happy to have a super bowl contending team every 5-10 years and build/destroy the team to accomplish that.  I may be able to argue its actually a benefit to the sport to have teams cycle like that. It certainly gets tiring when the same teams contend every year.  But the flip side is the amazing run when a team does become dominant like the Pat's or now the Chiefs.

[Stadler]

We were talking last night about football, and it surprised me how many people are bought into - and accepting of - the idea that the NFL is at least partially scripted.  I can't imagine the rise of betting around the game (which is staggering and a little disconcerting at the same time) if it was actually scripted.  I'm sure there are preferences that result in more income for the league, but I can't imagine with the billions that are changing hands over wagering that they would chance blowing up the whole thing over a "preference". 

[hefdaddy42]

We were talking last night about football, and it surprised me how many people are bought into - and accepting of - the idea that the NFL is at least partially scripted.  I can't imagine the rise of betting around the game (which is staggering and a little disconcerting at the same time) if it was actually scripted.  I'm sure there are preferences that result in more income for the league, but I can't imagine with the billions that are changing hands over wagering that they would chance blowing up the whole thing over a "preference".

People get so bent out of shape over what they perceive as terrible officiating that they make the leap to "conspiracy".  Same thing in sports as everywhere else in life.

[faizoff]

Bucs are going to be really bad this season. They're going to lose many star and key players due to their cap situation.

I don't begrudge management for doing what they did to kick the can down the road. They got a great three years being competitive and a superbowl out of it. Bowles will probably be given another couple of years and when they truly hit rock bottom, that's when he'll get fired is my guess.

I think it's the nature of the game now, and I think it's a damn shame. A lot of teams are becoming cyclical, building up for a few years, selling the farm for one final push at it all, falling apart, and then finally collapsing ahead of a major rebuild. I suppose if you want 3 good years and a shot at a trophy for every 12 years it makes sense. The situation TB is in is incredibly bad. I was wondering the other day if they might be the first team to really embrace tanking given how much they're having to unload. They should be selling players for draft picks right now. Get ready for a massive rebuild over the next few years.

They are restructuring some deals with key players so at least there is some retention. But it does look like a lot of teams are going for the success now and rebuild later model. I guess if it brings in more fans to watch and buy merch then owners will be all for it Im sure.

[Deathless]

Ian Rapaport is reporting that the Bears are going to trade their #1 to the Panthers! Wow. The Panthers are going to draft Young or Stroud.

[KevShmev]

Great deal for the Bears. They got some good draft capital AND managed to get DJ Moore, who has quietly been a really good WR in football over the last few years despite never having a good QB to throw him the ball. 

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

I think that is a win-win for both teams if Carolina selects the right guy. Obviously if they hit, there is no discussion about compensation package. The question is who do you take now because the top two (Young and Stroud) have positives and negatives; neither is a 'can't miss' prospect.

I don't think you can risk it all on Young who is probably the better QB. The size issue cannot be overlooked. Stroud can make all the throws, is accurate, has good mechanics and size. You go Stroud and let the coaching staff mold him, imo.

[El Barto]

I'm increasingly of the opinion that top pick QBs in the draft aren't as much about the talent but the ability for a team to develop them. We look at guys like Darnold and figure they're busts because they flamed out. I have to think that maybe the problem wasn't him as much as it was being drafted by the NYJ. Like Wilson, Pennington, Geno Smith, Sanchez, and the list goes on. Maybe if Josh Rosen had been drafted by a real team he'd still be in the league. In this case I known nothing about [OC] Thomas Brown, but Frank Reich should be able to put whoever they draft in a position to do well.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

I'm increasingly of the opinion that top pick QBs in the draft aren't as much about the talent but the ability for a team to develop them. We look at guys like Darnold and figure they're busts because they flamed out. I have to think that maybe the problem wasn't him as much as it was being drafted by the NYJ. Like Wilson, Pennington, Geno Smith, Sanchez, and the list goes on. Maybe if Josh Rosen had been drafted by a real team he'd still be in the league. In this case I known nothing about [OC] Thomas Brown, but Frank Reich should be able to put whoever they draft in a position to do well.

Frank Reich is supposed to be the QB whisperer as you alluded to, and he is going to call the plays. Then, they have Jim Caldwell and Josh McCown. There is a ton of offensive experience in that building from proven coaches to former players. Everything would appear to be in place for a young QB to succeed in terms of system and coaches.

They'll need to go and get a few receiving options in free agency and then they're good to go. Just need to pick the right guy who wants to absorb it all.

[hunnus2000]

I'm increasingly of the opinion that top pick QBs in the draft aren't as much about the talent but the ability for a team to develop them. We look at guys like Darnold and figure they're busts because they flamed out. I have to think that maybe the problem wasn't him as much as it was being drafted by the NYJ. Like Wilson, Pennington, Geno Smith, Sanchez, and the list goes on. Maybe if Josh Rosen had been drafted by a real team he'd still be in the league. In this case I known nothing about [OC] Thomas Brown, but Frank Reich should be able to put whoever they draft in a position to do well.

I dunno, there are guys that flat out can't cut it in the league. Jeff George, Ryan Leaf come to mind and like Zach Wilson, I don't think they are coachable. That's the biggest knock on some of these guys but yeah, some of them get drafted into a bad organization.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

I'm increasingly of the opinion that top pick QBs in the draft aren't as much about the talent but the ability for a team to develop them. We look at guys like Darnold and figure they're busts because they flamed out. I have to think that maybe the problem wasn't him as much as it was being drafted by the NYJ. Like Wilson, Pennington, Geno Smith, Sanchez, and the list goes on. Maybe if Josh Rosen had been drafted by a real team he'd still be in the league. In this case I known nothing about [OC] Thomas Brown, but Frank Reich should be able to put whoever they draft in a position to do well.

I dunno, there are guys that flat out can't cut it in the league. Jeff George, Ryan Leaf come to mind and like Zach Wilson, I don't think they are coachable. That's the biggest knock on some of these guys but yeah, some of them get drafted into a bad organization.

Zach Wilson never should have started his 1st year. Based on the competition he faced in college, I don't see how you could throw him into the fire and expect great results. I think there is absolutely an element of user-error on the part of the Jets here.

[KevShmev]

I'm increasingly of the opinion that top pick QBs in the draft aren't as much about the talent but the ability for a team to develop them. We look at guys like Darnold and figure they're busts because they flamed out. I have to think that maybe the problem wasn't him as much as it was being drafted by the NYJ. Like Wilson, Pennington, Geno Smith, Sanchez, and the list goes on. Maybe if Josh Rosen had been drafted by a real team he'd still be in the league. In this case I known nothing about [OC] Thomas Brown, but Frank Reich should be able to put whoever they draft in a position to do well.

I dunno, there are guys that flat out can't cut it in the league. Jeff George, Ryan Leaf come to mind and like Zach Wilson, I don't think they are coachable. That's the biggest knock on some of these guys but yeah, some of them get drafted into a bad organization.

Jeff George didn't live up to the hype, but he had a few really good years, and was better than Leaf ever was and what Wilson has shown, so I am not sure putting him in the same sentence with those clowns is fair. 

I agree with Barto.  Never underestimate the importance of coaching and player development.  Look at Tua.  He went from looking like a decent starter at best due to a very good one under McDaniel (concussions issues aside).  Sure, having Tyreek Hill will help any QB, but he didn't even look like the same QB he was his first few years in the league.

[King Postwhore]

When a head coach from the defensive side, he needs a strong OC for for his young QB's development 

[cramx3]

I'm increasingly of the opinion that top pick QBs in the draft aren't as much about the talent but the ability for a team to develop them. We look at guys like Darnold and figure they're busts because they flamed out. I have to think that maybe the problem wasn't him as much as it was being drafted by the NYJ. Like Wilson, Pennington, Geno Smith, Sanchez, and the list goes on. Maybe if Josh Rosen had been drafted by a real team he'd still be in the league. In this case I known nothing about [OC] Thomas Brown, but Frank Reich should be able to put whoever they draft in a position to do well.

I dunno, there are guys that flat out can't cut it in the league. Jeff George, Ryan Leaf come to mind and like Zach Wilson, I don't think they are coachable. That's the biggest knock on some of these guys but yeah, some of them get drafted into a bad organization.

It's a combination of both.  All of these players are highly skilled and a coach is needed to make them rise above the rest, but there's still some who have all the talent, but just can't make it work in the NFL. 

[Stadler]

I'm increasingly of the opinion that top pick QBs in the draft aren't as much about the talent but the ability for a team to develop them. We look at guys like Darnold and figure they're busts because they flamed out. I have to think that maybe the problem wasn't him as much as it was being drafted by the NYJ. Like Wilson, Pennington, Geno Smith, Sanchez, and the list goes on. Maybe if Josh Rosen had been drafted by a real team he'd still be in the league. In this case I known nothing about [OC] Thomas Brown, but Frank Reich should be able to put whoever they draft in a position to do well.

I dunno, there are guys that flat out can't cut it in the league. Jeff George, Ryan Leaf come to mind and like Zach Wilson, I don't think they are coachable. That's the biggest knock on some of these guys but yeah, some of them get drafted into a bad organization.

Zach Wilson never should have started his 1st year. Based on the competition he faced in college, I don't see how you could throw him into the fire and expect great results. I think there is absolutely an element of user-error on the part of the Jets here.

Regardless of which of you are right (and IMO, it's a mix of both), the Jets are culpable in either case. (And I'm not picking on the Jets; you can put any team in this mix and I think the analysis is the same).  They fail either on the front end in the drafting; they should be doing the due diligence to know - or at least reasonably believe - that this kid is or is not coachable, or the back end in the actual execution of the coaching.

I like Barto's analysis here; I think he's largely right, but I am reluctant to absolve these players from responsibility.  There are too many examples of players out-kicking their coaching coverage, and vice versa for it to be solely on the organization. And in some cases - Dallas - it's a combination.  I don't see Dak Prescott ever winning a Super Bowl (not counting latching on to a SB winner as a back up when he's 34) either with Dallas or without, and it's not like Dallas is just "one QB away" from the SB. 

[hefdaddy42]

Really excited about the trade for the # 1 pick by the Panthers.  Reich will get the opportunity to groom a very talented QB, and as a bonus, we got rid of DJ Moore, whom I have never ever liked.

[bosk1]

I like Barto's analysis here; I think he's largely right, but I am reluctant to absolve these players from responsibility.  There are too many examples of players out-kicking their coaching coverage, and vice versa for it to be solely on the organization. And in some cases - Dallas - it's a combination.  I don't see Dak Prescott ever winning a Super Bowl (not counting latching on to a SB winner as a back up when he's 34) either with Dallas or without, and it's not like Dallas is just "one QB away" from the SB. 

Not sure about Dak.  I really like him and would like to see him have some success somewhere outside of Dallas.

[Skeever]

I'm increasingly of the opinion that top pick QBs in the draft aren't as much about the talent but the ability for a team to develop them. We look at guys like Darnold and figure they're busts because they flamed out. I have to think that maybe the problem wasn't him as much as it was being drafted by the NYJ. Like Wilson, Pennington, Geno Smith, Sanchez, and the list goes on. Maybe if Josh Rosen had been drafted by a real team he'd still be in the league. In this case I known nothing about [OC] Thomas Brown, but Frank Reich should be able to put whoever they draft in a position to do well.

I do not agree with this at all.
- Pennington was good on the Jets, his career was not as good as it could have been though because he got hurt.
- Sanchez was drafted by an excellent team and overall Jets organization. They were real enough to get to the AFC Championship game twice, despite him.
- Geno was thrust into starting too soon, for sure. But his career didn't magically get better after leaving the Jets. Good for him that he's turned it around, but you can't tell me that he was bad as a young player BECAUSE of the Jets.
- Darnold, I think, is a classic bust, and yes, that Adam Gase team was bad as it gets .
- And Wilson, too, is just bad. Not sure how anyone could argue in good faith that the Robert Saleh led Jets are not a "real team".

[lonestar]

Jimmy G to the Raiders... That'll be the cause some serious barroom discussion here in the bay.

[bosk1]

Wow, good for the Raiders.  Hate to see a top 10 QB leaving the '9ers, but it was inevitable.  Good that it got sorted out this early. 

[hunnus2000]

I like Barto's analysis here; I think he's largely right, but I am reluctant to absolve these players from responsibility.  There are too many examples of players out-kicking their coaching coverage, and vice versa for it to be solely on the organization. And in some cases - Dallas - it's a combination.  I don't see Dak Prescott ever winning a Super Bowl (not counting latching on to a SB winner as a back up when he's 34) either with Dallas or without, and it's not like Dallas is just "one QB away" from the SB. 

Not sure about Dak.  I really like him and would like to see him have some success somewhere outside of Dallas.

The knock on Dak this year was that he was checking out of plays. One of the reasons that Rush was successful is that he just ran the plays called in from the OC - don't over think it.

I think that Dak can deliver a Super Bowl but he needs the right people behind him which with the Cowboys history, he may never get.

[Deathless]

A lot of movement so far today.

Panthers signed a pair of really solid vets (Tuttle, DT from New Orleans and S Vonn Bell from Cincinnati). Both should fit well in Evero's 3-4 defense. The Broncos also signed two OL, though I think they overpaid for McGlinchey, the OT from SF.

Speaking of SF, just crazy that they added another strong DL in Hargreaves from Philadelphia. Adding strength to strength.

[lonestar]

Wow, good for the Raiders.  Hate to see a top 10 QB leaving the '9ers, but it was inevitable.  Good that it got sorted out this early.

Early buzz on my socials from Raider fan friends is not positive. They're just never happy 

[KevShmev]

Raiders would be smart to get a good backup QB for the 8 games Jimmy will inevitably miss.

Looks like the Jets and Packers have a deal worked out, but Rodgers is taking forever to decide if he wants to go to NY.  Of course. 

[lonestar]

Raiders would be smart to get a good backup QB for the 8 games Jimmy will inevitably miss.

Looks like the Jets and Packers have a deal worked out, but Rodgers is taking forever to decide if he wants to go to NY.  Of course. 

It's his own fault for leaving his darkness retreat early.

[KevShmev]

I know many like to poke fun at Rodgers for his darkness retreat and all his extracurricular activity, but I view it as taking all kinds of mind-altering drugs on the side, and plenty of us here do that (some more than others, haha), so I don't have any issues with that. 

[King Postwhore]

It's the way he carries himself that people do not like.

[KevShmev]

Rodgers has always carried himself like that, though.  It's not like "arrogant dick" hasn't always oozed out of him.

[King Postwhore]

Yeah, but that is why he's hated. Not that there isn't many ways to hate stars. Lol

[pg1067]

I think the marriage of Commitment to Excrement with Mr. All-He-Does-Is-Get-Injured is just perfect.   

[Skeever]

Rodgers in the NY media is going to be insane.

[Dream Team]

We were talking last night about football, and it surprised me how many people are bought into - and accepting of - the idea that the NFL is at least partially scripted.  I can't imagine the rise of betting around the game (which is staggering and a little disconcerting at the same time) if it was actually scripted.  I'm sure there are preferences that result in more income for the league, but I can't imagine with the billions that are changing hands over wagering that they would chance blowing up the whole thing over a "preference".

I'm told people actually wager on scripted WWE events. There's no limit to the insanity!