Author Topic: 2023 NFL Thread v Super Bowl matchup: Chiefs vs. 49ers  (Read 65323 times)

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Offline Stadler

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Re: 2023 NFL Thread
« Reply #175 on: April 06, 2023, 06:54:44 AM »
Although I'm a fan of Jimmy G., I don't really disagree with you.  But given all that, a 34-year-old Kirk Cousins doesn't solve that problem, IMO.

I agree, especially given his salary and cap hit, which, to be fair, I did mention in my post last night. :)

It's almost scary to think of how good that team would be if they actually got an above average QB. They are loaded almost everywhere, but just haven't gotten the most important position right (yet still have three deep playoff runs in the last five years).

Not a Niners fan, per se, though I respect them deeply and often root for them, but I would have liked to have seen Derek Carr there.  Who would you think would be that above average guy (and is legit available; I don't mean pipe dreams)?

Offline KevShmev

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Re: 2023 NFL Thread
« Reply #176 on: April 06, 2023, 07:56:55 AM »
Although I'm a fan of Jimmy G., I don't really disagree with you.  But given all that, a 34-year-old Kirk Cousins doesn't solve that problem, IMO.

I agree, especially given his salary and cap hit, which, to be fair, I did mention in my post last night. :)

It's almost scary to think of how good that team would be if they actually got an above average QB. They are loaded almost everywhere, but just haven't gotten the most important position right (yet still have three deep playoff runs in the last five years).

Not a Niners fan, per se, though I respect them deeply and often root for them, but I would have liked to have seen Derek Carr there.  Who would you think would be that above average guy (and is legit available; I don't mean pipe dreams)?

I actually think Carr would have been a great fit, as he does not like taking risks, so his style would fit that offense well, as so many of the 49ers skill guys are great "run after the catch" guys, so Carr would be great at throwing those 2-yard passes than turn into 35-yard plays by Deebo or C-Mac.  Alas, it was not to be.

Offline KevShmev

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Re: 2023 NFL Thread
« Reply #177 on: April 06, 2023, 08:10:27 AM »
Although I'm a fan of Jimmy G., I don't really disagree with you.  But given all that, a 34-year-old Kirk Cousins doesn't solve that problem, IMO. 
Cousins would put up better numbers than the Jimmy G ones in the playoffs, but would that lead to more wins? Honestly, that would largely be up to the rest of the team as I think Cousins has shown he's not the guy to put the team on his shoulders and will them to victory.

I generally think that Cousins is a better QB than many give him credit for. Some people bizarrely think he is awful, which he certainly isn't. But he's a known entity at this point, a solid, durable QB who will give you a chance to win most weeks, but don't expect him to have that magic touch that pushes you over the edge.

I agree with this breakdown.  I'd put Cousins in the same category as guys like Carr, Prescott, etc., guys you can win with, but will rarely be the main reason why.

Offline Stadler

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Re: 2023 NFL Thread
« Reply #178 on: April 06, 2023, 09:11:08 AM »
Although I'm a fan of Jimmy G., I don't really disagree with you.  But given all that, a 34-year-old Kirk Cousins doesn't solve that problem, IMO. 
Cousins would put up better numbers than the Jimmy G ones in the playoffs, but would that lead to more wins? Honestly, that would largely be up to the rest of the team as I think Cousins has shown he's not the guy to put the team on his shoulders and will them to victory.

I generally think that Cousins is a better QB than many give him credit for. Some people bizarrely think he is awful, which he certainly isn't. But he's a known entity at this point, a solid, durable QB who will give you a chance to win most weeks, but don't expect him to have that magic touch that pushes you over the edge.

I agree with this breakdown.  I'd put Cousins in the same category as guys like Carr, Prescott, etc., guys you can win with, but will rarely be the main reason why.

Here's the crazy thing:  I don't think you need a QB that can put the team on it's shoulders for the win; I think you need a PLAYER that you can do that with.  Doesn't have to be a QB (and it can even be on defense).  What you need is a QB that knows who that is, and whether it's him.  Phil Simms knew he never had to be Warren Moon; they had Lawrence Taylor.  I think certain QBs get in trouble thinking they're the guy when they're not (that is, to me, why Romo had so many bonehead plays in the crucial moments of games).  I think Cousins might be that guy that can't do it, but thinks he can.

Offline lordxizor

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Re: 2023 NFL Thread
« Reply #179 on: April 06, 2023, 10:55:38 AM »
I think Cousins might be that guy that can't do it, but thinks he can.
I think Cousins knows pretty well who he is. He expressed open concern about how aggressive the offense was being a couple seasons ago because he wasn't feel comfortable with it. The key to a guy like him, and several other QBs in the league, is having coaching and play calling that doesn't lean overly hard on him in crunch time. And having a few key players around them to carry the team in those situations. Jefferson was that guy for the Vikings on some key plays in 4th quarter drives last season.

Offline Stadler

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Re: 2023 NFL Thread
« Reply #180 on: April 06, 2023, 11:16:46 AM »
I think Cousins might be that guy that can't do it, but thinks he can.
I think Cousins knows pretty well who he is. He expressed open concern about how aggressive the offense was being a couple seasons ago because he wasn't feel comfortable with it. The key to a guy like him, and several other QBs in the league, is having coaching and play calling that doesn't lean overly hard on him in crunch time. And having a few key players around them to carry the team in those situations. Jefferson was that guy for the Vikings on some key plays in 4th quarter drives last season.

That may be fair.  I'm not party to the locker room; it could well be a coaching problem.

Offline bosk1

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Re: 2023 NFL Thread
« Reply #181 on: April 06, 2023, 12:03:43 PM »
Looking at things realistically, I have to disagree with this entire thread regarding the 49ers.  They are already well "over the hump."  The fact that they haven't gotten a ring isn't the issue.  Just look at their record and their playoff runs the last several years in a row.  Clearly, this team has "it."  But only 1 team in 32 wins a ring each year, and there are a lot of great teams you can argue "should have" won in any given year that caught a tough break, whether it be getting outplayed on a key play, a bad call, a key injury, or what have you.  The '9ers have at least one QB in their QB room that is more than capable of taking them all the way (and had another before the trade to the Raiders).  Every meaningful stat bears that out.  Cousins is a very good QB.  But he would be downgrade at the position, and one with a higher price tag.  There's no universe where him going to the 49ers makes sense.
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Offline lordxizor

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Re: 2023 NFL Thread
« Reply #182 on: April 06, 2023, 12:29:53 PM »
Looking at things realistically, I have to disagree with this entire thread regarding the 49ers.  They are already well "over the hump."  The fact that they haven't gotten a ring isn't the issue.  Just look at their record and their playoff runs the last several years in a row.  Clearly, this team has "it."  But only 1 team in 32 wins a ring each year, and there are a lot of great teams you can argue "should have" won in any given year that caught a tough break, whether it be getting outplayed on a key play, a bad call, a key injury, or what have you.  The '9ers have at least one QB in their QB room that is more than capable of taking them all the way (and had another before the trade to the Raiders).  Every meaningful stat bears that out.  Cousins is a very good QB.  But he would be downgrade at the position, and one with a higher price tag.  There's no universe where him going to the 49ers makes sense.
I agree they could win with the QBs they have, which to me shows the strength of their team overall given that they don't appear to have an elite QB on their roster at the moment, though time may prove one of them to be elite. We could debate all day whether Cousins would be an upgrade or not. I think his price tag versus the current SF QBs makes sticking with who they have a no brainer.

Offline KevShmev

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Re: 2023 NFL Thread
« Reply #183 on: April 07, 2023, 06:18:08 AM »


Here's the crazy thing:  I don't think you need a QB that can put the team on it's shoulders for the win; I think you need a PLAYER that you can do that with.  Doesn't have to be a QB (and it can even be on defense).  What you need is a QB that knows who that is, and whether it's him.  Phil Simms knew he never had to be Warren Moon; they had Lawrence Taylor.  I think certain QBs get in trouble thinking they're the guy when they're not (that is, to me, why Romo had so many bonehead plays in the crucial moments of games).  I think Cousins might be that guy that can't do it, but thinks he can.

I agree with that, but having one sure does help, no? 

In the case of Simms, sure, he knew he didn't have to be Warren Moon, but he wasn't capable of being Warren Moon, so playing within himself and not trying to do too much speaks to your point for sure, even if Simms was closer to being Trent Dilfer or Brad Johnson than John Elway or Joe Montana. 

With Romo, I have said it for years now that he loses his mind when things get tense.  Go listen to him when doing games the last few years.  The non-stop slurping of QBs aside, he generally gives good advice and suggestions for most of the game, but when a team is in the 2-minute drill at the end of the game, he inexplicably makes suggestions that are like WTF.  And I think that is how he played: very good, sometimes great, for most of the game, but in the crucial moments at the end, his brain went haywire, which is why he'd often make the big mistake when it mattered most.  Since I have been watching football (mid 80s), there have been quite a few QBs who scared you when they got the ball down 4 with two minutes left when they were going against your team: Montana, Elway, Marino, Brady, Peyton, Mahomes, etc.  Romo was on the other end of the spectrum where you felt pretty confident that he'd find a way NOT to get it done.

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Re: 2023 NFL Thread
« Reply #184 on: April 07, 2023, 07:21:27 AM »
I think you do with today's game.  You didn't in the past decades but now look at the last decade plus.  Most champions are franchise QB's.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: 2023 NFL Thread
« Reply #185 on: April 07, 2023, 12:07:44 PM »
I think you do with today's game.  You didn't in the past decades but now look at the last decade plus.  Most champions are franchise QB's.


I think you're right, but for the wrong reasons.  The teams look like that not because that's what it takes to win, but because that's the easiest way for GMs to make it happen, for a lot of reasons.  The Rams didn't need a QB of Stafford's level (I think he's VERY VERY good QB) to win a Super Bowl, they just needed someone who wasn't Jarred Goff.   You don't need a franchise QB if everything else is in place.   Look at the Jets.  Wilson was not just "average", he was actively AWFUL.  They don't need 27 year old Aaron Rodgers to be better, they need someone who isn't Zach Wilson. 

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Re: 2023 NFL Thread
« Reply #186 on: April 07, 2023, 12:20:37 PM »
Let me amend it.  To win multiple championships in a decade, you need a franchise QB.  You can have a great D to win one.  (Denver, Rams Ravens) are examples.  But to be there a full decade with the ability to win multiple, you need that franchise QB with the style the NFL wants.
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: 2023 NFL Thread
« Reply #187 on: April 17, 2023, 09:33:26 AM »
Jalen Hurts agees to five year, $255 million extension, becomes highest-paid player in NFL history.

I bet the Ravens are loving that information lol
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Re: 2023 NFL Thread
« Reply #188 on: April 17, 2023, 09:51:23 AM »
Jalen Hurts agees to five year, $255 million extension, becomes highest-paid player in NFL history.

I bet the Ravens are loving that information lol
I read something a couple of weeks ago about why it'll be so hard to give Lamar Jackson what he wants. Per the CBA, any guaranteed contract has to be funded in full to an escrow account at the time of signing. There's a little bit of wiggle room regarding signing dates and whatnot, but it's largely pay the whole thing up front. Owners are billionaires, but that doesn't mean that they can necessarily write a 250 million dollar cheque. Hurts's guarnateed money into escrow will probably be around 150M, and they'll have until next March to fund it. Part of LJ's problems (one of many, frankly) is that he wants the entire 250 guaranteed. That's a spicy meatball.
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: 2023 NFL Thread
« Reply #189 on: April 17, 2023, 09:53:57 AM »
Jalen Hurts agees to five year, $255 million extension, becomes highest-paid player in NFL history.

I bet the Ravens are loving that information lol
I read something a couple of weeks ago about why it'll be so hard to give Lamar Jackson what he wants. Per the CBA, any guaranteed contract has to be funded in full to an escrow account at the time of signing. There's a little bit of wiggle room regarding signing dates and whatnot, but it's largely pay the whole thing up front. Owners are billionaires, but that doesn't mean that they can necessarily write a 250 million dollar cheque. Hurts's guarnateed money into escrow will probably be around 150M, and they'll have until next March to fund it. Part of LJ's problems (one of many, frankly) is that he wants the entire 250 guaranteed. That's a spicy meatball.
The article I read had Hurts's guaranteed money pegged at around $179 million.

Yeah, Lamar is crazy to think he will ever get a contract of that size fully guaranteed. 
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: 2023 NFL Thread
« Reply #190 on: April 17, 2023, 11:55:01 AM »
Hurts also apparently got a no-trade clause in this contract.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: 2023 NFL Thread
« Reply #191 on: April 17, 2023, 12:06:41 PM »
Jalen Hurts agees to five year, $255 million extension, becomes highest-paid player in NFL history.



I mean, seriously, though, he's so worth it.  There's no longer room on the wall for all the Super Bowl trophies and MVPs he's won...


Offline Dream Team

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Re: 2023 NFL Thread
« Reply #192 on: April 17, 2023, 01:01:58 PM »
Yeah the market is crazy now. They pay guys based on what they expect they might do. Mahomes’ deal is considered team-friendly now.

Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: 2023 NFL Thread
« Reply #193 on: April 17, 2023, 01:11:52 PM »
Jalen Hurts agees to five year, $255 million extension, becomes highest-paid player in NFL history.



I mean, seriously, though, he's so worth it.  There's no longer room on the wall for all the Super Bowl trophies and MVPs he's won...
Well, it's market driven.  If he got a team to agree to it, he's worth it.
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Offline hunnus2000

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Re: 2023 NFL Thread
« Reply #194 on: April 17, 2023, 01:13:19 PM »
Yeah the market is crazy now. They pay guys based on what they expect they might do. Mahomes’ deal is considered team-friendly now.

I will never criticize a player for getting his money. They put their body through hell and they are asking Jalen and Lamar to do is run the ball. Good for them. Lamar should get as much guaranteed money as he can before that ship sails.

Offline Stadler

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Re: 2023 NFL Thread
« Reply #195 on: April 17, 2023, 02:21:01 PM »
Jalen Hurts agees to five year, $255 million extension, becomes highest-paid player in NFL history.



I mean, seriously, though, he's so worth it.  There's no longer room on the wall for all the Super Bowl trophies and MVPs he's won...
Well, it's market driven.  If he got a team to agree to it, he's worth it.

Well, he may  be "worth it" but I question if he is "worth it".  You all - well, Hef and Hunnus - are 100% right.  It's not Hurts' fault; he asked and Philly said yes. Fair play.  And I don't void anyone asking. As an observer, though, I question what the objective is, what is the payoff.  There is almost a billion dollars of GUARANTEED money out there with QBs that are on rosters and there aren't but a handful of the important trophies to show for it.

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Re: 2023 NFL Thread
« Reply #196 on: April 17, 2023, 03:01:03 PM »
Man, the Chiefs are looking like absolute geniuses right now. Part of that is on Mahomes for being reasonable, but that is one helluva team friendly contract because of how it's structured.
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Re: 2023 NFL Thread
« Reply #197 on: April 17, 2023, 03:34:19 PM »
Man, the Chiefs are looking like absolute geniuses right now. Part of that is on Mahomes for being reasonable, but that is one helluva team friendly contract because of how it's structured.

And I'm being dead serious here, it's one of the variables that, if he ever is actually crowned "the GOAT", will be a significant part of it. These are the things the greatest players do, IMO.

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Re: 2023 NFL Thread
« Reply #198 on: April 17, 2023, 03:44:43 PM »
The Cowboys were raked through the coals for signing Dak to what they did when they did. but his salary I think runs around 10th or 12th in the league which seems about right all things considered.

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Re: 2023 NFL Thread
« Reply #199 on: April 17, 2023, 05:11:12 PM »
Man, the Chiefs are looking like absolute geniuses right now. Part of that is on Mahomes for being reasonable, but that is one helluva team friendly contract because of how it's structured.

And I'm being dead serious here, it's one of the variables that, if he ever is actually crowned "the GOAT", will be a significant part of it. These are the things the greatest players do, IMO.


You can always tell the ones who don’t just SAY they’re all about winning but their actions prove it true - Jordan, Brady, etc. Every athlete SAYS winning is all that matters but we know better.

Offline lordxizor

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Re: 2023 NFL Thread
« Reply #200 on: April 18, 2023, 05:55:09 AM »
Hurts at least got his team to the Super Bowl, which is more than many extremely highly paid QBs can claim.

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Re: 2023 NFL Thread
« Reply #201 on: April 18, 2023, 09:36:49 AM »
Nah, it's more like Hurts' team got him to the SB.
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Re: 2023 NFL Thread
« Reply #202 on: April 19, 2023, 10:28:30 AM »
Nah, it's more like Hurts' team got him to the SB.

 :lol
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline Dream Team

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Re: 2023 NFL Thread
« Reply #203 on: April 20, 2023, 08:10:08 AM »
Nah, it's more like Hurts' team got him to the SB.

It's true that when a team is that loaded it's very difficult to separate the performance of the QB from the rest of the squad. But I don't think it's as bad as the Ravens dragging Dilfer to the Super Bowl. I didn't know a lot about Hurts but he impressed me this season (and apparently impressed a lot of sportswriters who had him 2nd in the MVP race).

Offline Stadler

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Re: 2023 NFL Thread
« Reply #204 on: April 20, 2023, 08:45:43 AM »
Nah, it's more like Hurts' team got him to the SB.

It's true that when a team is that loaded it's very difficult to separate the performance of the QB from the rest of the squad. But I don't think it's as bad as the Ravens dragging Dilfer to the Super Bowl. I didn't know a lot about Hurts but he impressed me this season (and apparently impressed a lot of sportswriters who had him 2nd in the MVP race).

It's the same thing we've talked about for years now.  He's got two not-technically-even-complete seasons under his belt.   I'm sure he'll be a great player; he's smart, he's tough, he learns and he adjusts.   All great signs.   Let him PLAY.  Let him revolve through an iteration of his support staff. 

Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: 2023 NFL Thread
« Reply #205 on: April 24, 2023, 02:37:54 PM »
Our long national nightmare may be over.  Sources: Packers trade Aaron Rodgers to Jets for multiple picks
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Re: 2023 NFL Thread
« Reply #206 on: April 24, 2023, 03:38:23 PM »
That's not a bad deal for the NYJ. Works alright for GB, too, as those two spots (15 to 13) could really matter this draft.
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Re: 2023 NFL Thread
« Reply #207 on: April 24, 2023, 05:02:03 PM »
If/when things go south Jets fans, I’ll be here to console you.
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Re: 2023 NFL Thread
« Reply #208 on: April 24, 2023, 07:35:44 PM »
Honestly, more than I was hoping to give up but an amount I can live with. Just glad I don't have to see any more posts on either the Jets or Packers subreddits about "leverage".
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Re: 2023 NFL Thread
« Reply #209 on: April 24, 2023, 10:29:25 PM »
At first I thought a 4-day darkness retreat may not be the smartest ideas.

But then Rodgers came out, made his decision, and is now finally playing Quarterback for the New York Jets.

So now I KNOW a 4-day darkness retreat was not a smart idea.
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