2023 NFL Thread v Super Bowl matchup: Chiefs vs. 49ers

[T-ski]

I'd like to thank Aaron for giving the Packers all the leverage in what's left to negotiate as far as compensation.

Jets fans, prepare for disappointment. I'll be here to console you if needed.

[KevShmev]

The Jets should tell Rodgers to go f himself, but they are so desperate to win that they are the needy franchise kowtowing to his asks.  This whole "I will agree to the trade if you sign this guy, that guy and that other guy" bull shit is just ridiculous.  So basically, Rodgers wants the receiving corps he had in GB, the one most agree wasn't good enough for a QB of his stature. 

They signed one guy from the Packers right? Come on. At least look into the takes you're throwing out there for a second before you blindly parrot what some sportscaster has said.

And at this point, it would be telling the Packers to go f themselves. Obviously the two teams had an understanding, and the Packers are negotiating in bad faith since the Jets have no other options.

This is fair.

Putting my opinion aside for a minute, this goes back to the media and how mad at they are for not being truthful to them about COVID.  Rodgers has always been an arrogant dick, but the sports media as a whole have mostly turned on him since the COVID thing, as if they are entitled to the truth.  They even talk now like he is some historically bad playoff QB, which is just crazy talk when you inspect his history., which, believe it or not, isn't just the last two home playoff losses.  Yes, yes, only one Super Bowl, but I lost track of how many games he lost where he played well and the GB defense got ran over...but it's the QB's fault, right?   It takes serious hatred to say that a guy who has 45 touchdowns and 13 interceptions in 21 playoff starts, and has a winning record for those who want to fixate on wins and losses, is not a great playoff QB. 

[axeman90210]

Well, I was glued to the Pat McAfee show for about an hour this afternoon Overall I'm in favor of the Jets going down this road *pending whatever the trade compensation ends up being*. The Jets were one of the best teams in the NFL on defense and special teams last season, we were just among the very worst in the league on offense. Even Aaron Rodgers on an off year in 2022 would have been the best season for a Jets QB since the Ryan Fitzpatrick lightning in a bottle year back in 2015, which itself was the best season for a Jets quarterback in a number of years. Oh, and the guy was also the league MVP for the two years prior. Now he'll be coming to a Jets team that gives him a better cast of skill position players than he's had in a while.

[Stadler]

Most of these latest player moves, especially JuJu, show that most players actually chase money not rings, even if they already have millions. I wonder what percentage actually value winning above money?

I think this is unfortunately right.  There are a LOT of personnel moves that just don't make any sense if you're looking at this from a competition/win point of view.  In that way, the NFL is slowly turning into the NBA (and that will be the reason I fade from being an NFL fan; the NBA doesn't exist in my little world.  I'd much rather watch college hoops). 

[hefdaddy42]

Most of these latest player moves, especially JuJu, show that most players actually chase money not rings, even if they already have millions. I wonder what percentage actually value winning above money?

It's their job.

There are 32 teams.  Only one wins the SB every year.  And in any given year, there are some teams that have a better chance of getting there than other teams.

All of the other teams still have to field teams, and players still need jobs.  If you can get one with a good team, fantastic, but you need the job either way, and the teams need players either way, also.

And in addition, there doesn't have to be a split there, valuing winning OR money.  Most players probably value both.  But at the end of the day, you can get a contract with guaranteed money, but not a guaranteed trophy.

There is also the facet that has a good player signing with a lesser team for a lot of money, with the intent that the lesser team is intending to turn around their fortunes.  You can't do that without good players.

[faizoff]

Bucs sign Baker Mayfield to a year deal. He sucked for the Panthers, was okish for the Rams, will probably show some promise and then just tank at pivotal moments during the season for the Bucs.

[Dream Team]

Most of these latest player moves, especially JuJu, show that most players actually chase money not rings, even if they already have millions. I wonder what percentage actually value winning above money?

It's their job.

There are 32 teams.  Only one wins the SB every year.  And in any given year, there are some teams that have a better chance of getting there than other teams.

All of the other teams still have to field teams, and players still need jobs.  If you can get one with a good team, fantastic, but you need the job either way, and the teams need players either way, also.

And in addition, there doesn't have to be a split there, valuing winning OR money.  Most players probably value both.  But at the end of the day, you can get a contract with guaranteed money, but not a guaranteed trophy.

There is also the facet that has a good player signing with a lesser team for a lot of money, with the intent that the lesser team is intending to turn around their fortunes.  You can't do that without good players.

Yup, a lot of truth there. I'm kinda thinking specifically of all the guys who willingly go from a first place to a last place team so they can make 40 million instead of 36 million.

[KevShmev]

Well, there is no guarantee of winning anywhere, and it is important to remember that many NFL players, generally speaking, have short careers, so they usually have a pretty short window in which to maximize their potential earnings.  I can't fault players for trying to make as much as they can, even if I don't always agree with the methods.

[El Barto]

Well, there is no guarantee of winning anywhere, and it is important to remember that many NFL players, generally speaking, have short careers, so they usually have a pretty short window in which to maximize their potential earnings.  I can't fault players for trying to make as much as they can, even if I don't always agree with the methods.

I can buy that, but only up to a point. Once you're signing your second or third pro contract you've already set yourself up quite well. And I don't mean that like "they've already earned enough." Not my place to say what's enough. I mean that the difference in contracts is negligible compared to previous career earnings. If you've already made 40 million playing football, and now you get to choose between 30m and a ring over two years, or 33m and sucking, I want the guy who wants to win. Revis is the poster child here. Dude had already made nearly 100m when he left the Patriots. He signed with the Jets because they were offering him [something like] 19m/yr vs the 17/yr NE offered. That earns him douchebag status in my book. Rookie contract? Of course you take the 2m. End of career contract? Go where you want to go.

[TheCountOfNYC]

Well, I was glued to the Pat McAfee show for about an hour this afternoon Overall I'm in favor of the Jets going down this road *pending whatever the trade compensation ends up being*. The Jets were one of the best teams in the NFL on defense and special teams last season, we were just among the very worst in the league on offense. Even Aaron Rodgers on an off year in 2022 would have been the best season for a Jets QB since the Ryan Fitzpatrick lightning in a bottle year back in 2015, which itself was the best season for a Jets quarterback in a number of years. Oh, and the guy was also the league MVP for the two years prior. Now he'll be coming to a Jets team that gives him a better cast of skill position players than he's had in a while.

This. All of this. The Jets would have been a playoff team with a half-decent quarterback. Aaron Rodgers is more than a half-decent quarterback.

[lordxizor]

Well, I was glued to the Pat McAfee show for about an hour this afternoon Overall I'm in favor of the Jets going down this road *pending whatever the trade compensation ends up being*. The Jets were one of the best teams in the NFL on defense and special teams last season, we were just among the very worst in the league on offense. Even Aaron Rodgers on an off year in 2022 would have been the best season for a Jets QB since the Ryan Fitzpatrick lightning in a bottle year back in 2015, which itself was the best season for a Jets quarterback in a number of years. Oh, and the guy was also the league MVP for the two years prior. Now he'll be coming to a Jets team that gives him a better cast of skill position players than he's had in a while.

This. All of this. The Jets would have been a playoff team with a half-decent quarterback. Aaron Rodgers is more than a half-decent quarterback.

Assuming 2022 wasn't the start of a downward trend for Rogers, I think the Jets should be better. But it's sounding like this is far from a done deal.

[King Postwhore]

Well, I was glued to the Pat McAfee show for about an hour this afternoon Overall I'm in favor of the Jets going down this road *pending whatever the trade compensation ends up being*. The Jets were one of the best teams in the NFL on defense and special teams last season, we were just among the very worst in the league on offense. Even Aaron Rodgers on an off year in 2022 would have been the best season for a Jets QB since the Ryan Fitzpatrick lightning in a bottle year back in 2015, which itself was the best season for a Jets quarterback in a number of years. Oh, and the guy was also the league MVP for the two years prior. Now he'll be coming to a Jets team that gives him a better cast of skill position players than he's had in a while.

This. All of this. The Jets would have been a playoff team with a half-decent quarterback. Aaron Rodgers is more than a half-decent quarterback.

Assuming 2022 wasn't the start of a downward trend for Rogers, I think the Jets should be better. But it's sounding like this is far from a done deal.

Just like Brady in 2019, he was disgruntled and not engaged.  I expect him to be very good, like the year before.

[KevShmev]

The Jets won 7 games last year with absolute trash at QB (no matter who was playing), so even if they get 2022 Aaron Rodgers, that is still a major upgrade.  I agree with Joe that he was disgruntled last year; he didn't give a crap.  He will be highly motivated to be great again just to stick it to the Packers.  He's a spiteful dick like that.

[T-ski]

I'd like to point out the Jets beat the Aaron Rodgers led Packers last year with their crappy QB. 

[Stadler]

I'd like to point out the Jets beat the Aaron Rodgers led Packers last year with their crappy QB.

I don't think Mike White is "crappy"; he played hard, spirited football, often injured.  I'm just not sure he's enough to carry the Jets over the threshold.  You put him on a more balanced, solid, experienced team and he could go deep in the playoffs. 

[T-ski]

I'd like to point out the Jets beat the Aaron Rodgers led Packers last year with their crappy QB.

I don't think Mike White is "crappy"; he played hard, spirited football, often injured.  I'm just not sure he's enough to carry the Jets over the threshold.  You put him on a more balanced, solid, experienced team and he could go deep in the playoffs.

Mike White didn't play in that game, it was Zach Wilson.

[axeman90210]

I'd like to point out the Jets beat the Aaron Rodgers led Packers last year with their crappy QB.

I don't think Mike White is "crappy"; he played hard, spirited football, often injured.  I'm just not sure he's enough to carry the Jets over the threshold.  You put him on a more balanced, solid, experienced team and he could go deep in the playoffs. 

Zach Wilson was the QB for that one, racked up a whopping 110 yards on 10 of 18 passing . Don't get me wrong, I loved Mike White's heart and spirit, but that team was largely balanced/solid outside of the QB play. Top tier D/ST and a respectable collection of skill position players on offense (particularly before Breece Hall went down). The O line was kind of in rough shape, but I can't blame the front office too much, we had six different starting tackles spend time on the IR.

[hefdaddy42]

Panthers sign Adam Thielen.

The cats have had an interesting offseason, that's for sure.

[Stadler]

I'd like to point out the Jets beat the Aaron Rodgers led Packers last year with their crappy QB.

I don't think Mike White is "crappy"; he played hard, spirited football, often injured.  I'm just not sure he's enough to carry the Jets over the threshold.  You put him on a more balanced, solid, experienced team and he could go deep in the playoffs. 

Zach Wilson was the QB for that one, racked up a whopping 110 yards on 10 of 18 passing . Don't get me wrong, I loved Mike White's heart and spirit, but that team was largely balanced/solid outside of the QB play. Top tier D/ST and a respectable collection of skill position players on offense (particularly before Breece Hall went down). The O line was kind of in rough shape, but I can't blame the front office too much, we had six different starting tackles spend time on the IR.

I didn't remember who played what, I just know that worse QBs than Mike White have had success in the NFL.  He wasn't anyone's first choice, but that shouldn't matter. I'm not really making any point here other than I think the narrative seems to be "they're a QB away" and I don't think that's true.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

Well, I was glued to the Pat McAfee show for about an hour this afternoon Overall I'm in favor of the Jets going down this road *pending whatever the trade compensation ends up being*. The Jets were one of the best teams in the NFL on defense and special teams last season, we were just among the very worst in the league on offense. Even Aaron Rodgers on an off year in 2022 would have been the best season for a Jets QB since the Ryan Fitzpatrick lightning in a bottle year back in 2015, which itself was the best season for a Jets quarterback in a number of years. Oh, and the guy was also the league MVP for the two years prior. Now he'll be coming to a Jets team that gives him a better cast of skill position players than he's had in a while.

This. All of this. The Jets would have been a playoff team with a half-decent quarterback. Aaron Rodgers is more than a half-decent quarterback.

If he's still got it in the tank they'll make the playoffs. The issue is that he is at an age when his dick could fall off at any moment without warning. This exact thing happened to Peyton his last year, and Brady last year. Both declines were abrupt. We'll find out soon enough.

[hefdaddy42]

Panthers sign Adam Thielen.

The cats have had an interesting offseason, that's for sure.

And Miles Sanders. 

Whichever QB they get in the draft will have some weaponry to work with.

[Dream Team]

Panthers sign Adam Thielen.

The cats have had an interesting offseason, that's for sure.

And Miles Sanders. 

Whichever QB they get in the draft will have some weaponry to work with.

Have the Panthers retained most of their top defensive guys? If I remember their D was pretty awesome last year; didn't they shut the Bucs out or something? If they get a decent QB it should be a dogfight between them and the Saints for the division.

[hefdaddy42]

Panthers sign Adam Thielen.

The cats have had an interesting offseason, that's for sure.

And Miles Sanders. 

Whichever QB they get in the draft will have some weaponry to work with.

Have the Panthers retained most of their top defensive guys? If I remember their D was pretty awesome last year; didn't they shut the Bucs out or something? If they get a decent QB it should be a dogfight between them and the Saints for the division.

Yeah, they have still got most of them.  Just restructured Shaq Thompson's deal.

It will definitely be an interesting year.  I like the coach and the staff he's put together.  We'll see what happens.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

They lost a good DT in the offseason but they've also added.

Overall, this has been a very active offseason for the Panthers. I don't recall their offseason ever being so focused on offense. They've made big moves on the coaching side and have made some nice pickups on the player side. There is a ton of experience in that locker room from the coaches. The new ownership wants to win and is willing to spend. He also appears to have learned his lesson from the prior head coach hire.

The big thing now is picking the right QB between Young and Stroud and then keeping healthy. If they can do those things I think they'll be on the cusp of being playoff ready. They have a few more holes to fill but it should be achievable as the core pieces will be in place after the draft.

[hefdaddy42]

They lost a good DT in the offseason but they've also added.

Overall, this has been a very active offseason for the Panthers. I don't recall their offseason ever being so focused on offense. They've made big moves on the coaching side and have made some nice pickups on the player side. There is a ton of experience in that locker room from the coaches. The new ownership wants to win and is willing to spend. He also appears to have learned his lesson from the prior head coach hire.

The big thing now is picking the right QB between Young and Stroud and then keeping healthy. If they can do those things I think they'll be on the cusp of being playoff ready. They have a few more holes to fill but it should be achievable as the core pieces will be in place after the draft.

I agree.  Of course, I'm not sure there's much difference between Young and Stroud; I would be happy with either one.

I would be less enthusiastic about the other 2 apparently in contention (the QBs from Florida and Kentucky).

[Dream Team]

Chiefs lose another receiver but I don't think they'll miss Hardman much. Fumble-prone and never really advanced past "great potential".

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

They lost a good DT in the offseason but they've also added.

Overall, this has been a very active offseason for the Panthers. I don't recall their offseason ever being so focused on offense. They've made big moves on the coaching side and have made some nice pickups on the player side. There is a ton of experience in that locker room from the coaches. The new ownership wants to win and is willing to spend. He also appears to have learned his lesson from the prior head coach hire.

The big thing now is picking the right QB between Young and Stroud and then keeping healthy. If they can do those things I think they'll be on the cusp of being playoff ready. They have a few more holes to fill but it should be achievable as the core pieces will be in place after the draft.

I agree.  Of course, I'm not sure there's much difference between Young and Stroud; I would be happy with either one.

I would be less enthusiastic about the other 2 apparently in contention (the QBs from Florida and Kentucky).

They both have positives and negatives. I don't watch college sports but from what others are saying and from the combine and pro-day, Young is the better pure pocket passer. Young apparently has shown more ability to improvise and make plays when he cannot throw. He's a good passer too, but I think the ball doesn't come out or land as nicely. A lot of people have been talking up his football-IQ as well.

It's risky to draft a QB of his size. I was listening to a sports talk show where someone said that in some college games he weighed as little as 170lbs. His consistent playing weight is probably 180-190lbs. It's very frightening to think of a 180lb guy getting hit repeatedly by 300-350 pound men charging full speed at them. I don't doubt his talent but no one is going to be shocked if he's not playing football for more than a few years.

[El Barto]

I've been watching capsule versions of the early Patriots post season games and it's been enlightening. TB12 is understandably considered the reason for the dynasty, but for the formative years it was TB80 that carried him. I really had no idea how clutch Troy Brown was, and how often he was there to bail them out. And he did it in every conceivable way, like a perfect Belichick player. Bringing down jump balls. Timely punt returns. Just saw him force a fumble to bail Brady out after an ugly pick. Considering how many Steelers are in the HOF by virtue of being vital cogs in a dynasty, rather than individual numbers, kind of seems like TB80 might aughta be there too.

I'd completely forgotten that Belichick had to choose Brady over Bledsoe a second time, after DB won the divisional playoff round for them in 01. I certainly understand why Bledsoe is so highly regarded in Boston. And while I knew all of the facts, I never really put it all together that both Parcells and Belichick sat Bledsoe while he was well paid and playing well to start unknown, untested guys with higher upsides.

[TAC]

I've been watching capsule versions of the early Patriots post season games and it's been enlightening. TB12 is understandably considered the reason for the dynasty, but for the formative years it was TB80 that carried him. I really had no idea how clutch Troy Brown was, and how often he was there to bail them out. And he did it in every conceivable way, like a perfect Belichick player. Bringing down jump balls. Timely punt returns. Just saw him force a fumble to bail Brady out after an ugly pick. Considering how many Steelers are in the HOF by virtue of being vital cogs in a dynasty, rather than individual numbers, kind of seems like TB80 might aughta be there too.

I'd completely forgotten that Belichick had to choose Brady over Bledsoe a second time, after DB won the divisional playoff round for them in 01. I certainly understand why Bledsoe is so highly regarded in Boston. And while I knew all of the facts, I never really put it all together that both Parcells and Belichick sat Bledsoe while he was well paid and playing well to start unknown, untested guys with higher upsides.

Troy Brown was all kinds of awesome. Even post playing, but before his current coaching gig, he was on local TV doing commentary and he was excellent.

I wouldn't say that Bledsoe "won" them the game in the '01 CG. Belichick wasted no time SB week to name Brady the starter.

I don't remember Parcells sitting Bledsoe, unless he sent a message. I just don't remember.

[King Postwhore]

83 - 2000
101 - 2001
97 - 2002

Peak years for Troy and receptions.  He was the man those 3 years. After, he even played defensive back as well and as always, was a top punt returner.

Tim is correct. Belichick stated,if Brady was healthy, he was the starter for the SB.

[El Barto]

I wouldn't say that Bledsoe "won" them the game in the '01 CG.

In fact, I'd say that Troy Brown won them that game. In any case, Bledsoe played fine, kept them in it, made no mistakes, and threw the only TD pass. And Brady wasn't exactly lighting them up before he got hurt.

Belichick wasted no time SB week to name Brady the starter.

My point exactly.

I don't remember Parcells sitting Bledsoe, unless he sent a message. I just don't remember.

He benched him in Dallas in favor of Tony Romo.

[TAC]

I wouldn't say that Bledsoe "won" them the game in the '01 CG.

In fact, I'd say that Troy Brown won them that game. In any case, Bledsoe played fine, kept them in it, made no mistakes, and threw the only TD pass. And Brady wasn't exactly lighting them up before he got hurt.

Belichick wasted no time SB week to name Brady the starter.

My point exactly.

I don't remember Parcells sitting Bledsoe, unless he sent a message. I just don't remember.

He benched him in Dallas in favor of Tony Romo.

Oh no doubt Bledsoe played well enough in that game, considering the stakes. I liked Bledsoe a lot, actually.


I hadn't even thought of Parcells/Bledsoe in Dallas. Never crossed my mind.

[hunnus2000]

I wouldn't say that Bledsoe "won" them the game in the '01 CG.

In fact, I'd say that Troy Brown won them that game. In any case, Bledsoe played fine, kept them in it, made no mistakes, and threw the only TD pass. And Brady wasn't exactly lighting them up before he got hurt.

Belichick wasted no time SB week to name Brady the starter.

My point exactly.

I don't remember Parcells sitting Bledsoe, unless he sent a message. I just don't remember.

He benched him in Dallas in favor of Tony Romo.

Oh no doubt Bledsoe played well enough in that game, considering the stakes. I liked Bledsoe a lot, actually.


I hadn't even thought of Parcells/Bledsoe in Dallas. Never crossed my mind.

You didn't miss nothing. 

[faizoff]

If I remember right Tony Romo was replacing Bledsoe and then his first pass was an interception.

[KevShmev]

I wouldn't say that Bledsoe "won" them the game in the '01 CG.

In fact, I'd say that Troy Brown won them that game. In any case, Bledsoe played fine, kept them in it, made no mistakes, and threw the only TD pass. And Brady wasn't exactly lighting them up before he got hurt.

Yep. Brady led the offense to 0 points on offense before he got knocked out of the 2001 AFCCG (they led 7-3 at the time thanks to a punt return for a TD).

I will say this: as a Broncos fan who was fully on the Rams bandwagon when the Greatest Show on Turf was rolling (I live in STL, so it was impossible not to get swept up in the excitement), when Belichick announced that Brady was his started for Super Bowl 36, I was like, "hmmm, okay."  Brady was still a bit of an unknown, but I had seen him play enough to know that his conservative style of play at the time was better for that team.  I was hoping for Bledsoe, since I felt like Bledsoe would have been more likely to throw a pick or two to torpedo the Pats. I knew that Brady wasn't going to be the reason why they beat the Rams and he wasn't, but I felt confident that Bledsoe could be the reason the Pats lost if he had gotten the nod.