Springsteen dismantling his own rep?

[KevShmev]

https://www.app.com/story/entertainment/music/2023/02/04/backstreets-the-bruce-springsteen-fan-site-is-shutting-down/69872567007/

Based on what I have read, this is a fan site/club that existed for over 40 years now and is now shutting down for good due to a good portion of his hardcore fanbase turning on him due to his opting into dynamic pricing on his current tour and making it unaffordable for the average fan.

I guess he is in the "screw it, I want to make as much money as I can before I am dead" phase, but he may dent his legacy while doing it.

[Nick]

There is always going to be a way for the market to bridge the gap between the "face value" and the actual ticket value.

Ticketmaster is an awful company.

That said, the idea of dynamic ticketing, which is a far more transparent system, is actually a good one.

[The Curious Orange]

I went online to get a ticket for his Villa Park show when they went on sale. Think they were £110 plus fees, which is a lot but fair enough. By the time I got to the front of the queue 2 minutes later they were £485 plus fees. I'm not paying that. I get that if you miss the initial onsale, you have to pay a premium, but this WAS the initial onsale. 30 minutes later they were topping £2000. If I'd have missed out because the tickets sold out at face value then fair enough.

I'm gutted to be not going, as Springsteen is the one "must-see" for me, but seriously, fuck you Bruce.

[soupytwist]

I went online to get a ticket for his Villa Park show when they went on sale. Think they were £110 plus fees, which is a lot but fair enough. By the time I got to the front of the queue 2 minutes later they were £485 plus fees. I'm not paying that. I get that if you miss the initial onsale, you have to pay a premium, but this WAS the initial onsale. 30 minutes later they were topping £2000. If I'd have missed out because the tickets sold out at face value then fair enough.

I'm gutted to be not going, as Springsteen is the one "must-see" for me, but seriously, fuck you Bruce.

Yeah me too, and the Hyde Park ones, I just gave up when I saw the prices.  There is a tribute act coming to our local Corn Exchange in June - I settled for that instead £20 per ticket (and no travelling)

[KevShmev]

There is always going to be a way for the market to bridge the gap between the "face value" and the actual ticket value.

Ticketmaster is an awful company.

That said, the idea of dynamic ticketing, which is a far more transparent system, is actually a good one.

Can you unpack this a little for me?

From where I sit, dynamic pricing simply gives TM the right to raise prices as much as they want if the demand is there, which it generally will be for any artist of any reasonable popularity.  Don't get me wrong, I generally take the "if the ticket prices are too high, then don't go" approach, but handing TM and Live Nation a free pass to simply jack the prices up and gouge fans seems like a pretty bad idea, IMO.

[Stadler]

Well, complain about TM and Bruce all you want, but I'd rather the $2000 go to Bruce than to some asshole whose got a fake store front and hires college kids to stand outside the arena the night of the show scalping.  I think what some people are ignoring is that as long as there is someone willing to pay $2000 for a Bruce ticket, the system is ALWAYS going to be unfair.

And INB4 the real fan argument; I actually think the real fans ARE the ones that will spend $2000 to see their favorite artist.  The two guys next to me at the Broadway show I saw each paid over $6000 for their tickets and they didn't give a rat's ass. They were jazzed to see their favorite artist (and had traveled from something like St. Louis or Louisville or something like that to do it).

[emtee]

Not disagreeing but you need to be a real fan and also highly compensated to shell out that kind of dough for a show. That's beyond the means of a substantial percentage of the populous.

[Kwyjibo]

Well, complain about TM and Bruce all you want, but I'd rather the $2000 go to Bruce than to some asshole whose got a fake store front and hires college kids to stand outside the arena the night of the show scalping.  I think what some people are ignoring is that as long as there is someone willing to pay $2000 for a Bruce ticket, the system is ALWAYS going to be unfair.

And INB4 the real fan argument; I actually think the real fans ARE the ones that will spend $2000 to see their favorite artist.  The two guys next to me at the Broadway show I saw each paid over $6000 for their tickets and they didn't give a rat's ass. They were jazzed to see their favorite artist (and had traveled from something like St. Louis or Louisville or something like that to do it).

I think there are a lot of real fans that would like to spent $2000 to see their favorite artists but just don't have the money or can't justify spending it on a concert.

And also this means that I'm not a real fan, because there is no artist where I would buy a ticket for $2000. 

And it's Springsteen who prides himself as not being an aloof popstar but a hard working musician who sympathises with the working class. But the working class will probably not be present at his coming concerts at such ticket prizes.

[El Barto]

There is always going to be a way for the market to bridge the gap between the "face value" and the actual ticket value.

Ticketmaster is an awful company.

That said, the idea of dynamic ticketing, which is a far more transparent system, is actually a good one.

I've made both of these points ad nauseum. Unfortunately, for most people there seems no way to reconcile the two. Arguments suggesting that perhaps TM isn't wrong on one single point tend to be disregarded because their awfulness requires it.

[Nick]

There is always going to be a way for the market to bridge the gap between the "face value" and the actual ticket value.

Ticketmaster is an awful company.

That said, the idea of dynamic ticketing, which is a far more transparent system, is actually a good one.

Can you unpack this a little for me?

From where I sit, dynamic pricing simply gives TM the right to raise prices as much as they want if the demand is there, which it generally will be for any artist of any reasonable popularity.  Don't get me wrong, I generally take the "if the ticket prices are too high, then don't go" approach, but handing TM and Live Nation a free pass to simply jack the prices up and gouge fans seems like a pretty bad idea, IMO.

As it previously stood, Ticketmaster would backdoor tickets to their own associated sites or vendors, or bots would scoop up good seats and resell them. In either case the prices are getting jacked up to meet demand. In this case at least Ticketmaster is up front and just adjusting transparently from point of sale what the price should be based on demand.

It's far fairer and to the point then all the bullshit and e-back alley idiocy that typically went on.

[Stadler]

Well, complain about TM and Bruce all you want, but I'd rather the $2000 go to Bruce than to some asshole whose got a fake store front and hires college kids to stand outside the arena the night of the show scalping.  I think what some people are ignoring is that as long as there is someone willing to pay $2000 for a Bruce ticket, the system is ALWAYS going to be unfair.

And INB4 the real fan argument; I actually think the real fans ARE the ones that will spend $2000 to see their favorite artist.  The two guys next to me at the Broadway show I saw each paid over $6000 for their tickets and they didn't give a rat's ass. They were jazzed to see their favorite artist (and had traveled from something like St. Louis or Louisville or something like that to do it).

I think there are a lot of real fans that would like to spent $2000 to see their favorite artists but just don't have the money or can't justify spending it on a concert.

And also this means that I'm not a real fan, because there is no artist where I would buy a ticket for $2000. 

And it's Springsteen who prides himself as not being an aloof popstar but a hard working musician who sympathises with the working class. But the working class will probably not be present at his coming concerts at such ticket prizes.

I'm not saying you have to spend $2000 to be a "real fan". I don't even know what a "real fan" is.  I'm a diehard Kiss fan, and at this point (not because of the band, but because I've seen them so many times), I'm not paying more than $50 for a ticket. I'm just saying, I don't quite understand this concept that somehow tickets have to be in a certain price range.  Bruce isn't my favorite artist, but I do consider him the greatest living American artist, and if he wants to be paid, so what? 

(And remember, we're talking the best seats, now, not nosebleeds. I doubt you're paying $2000 to just get in the door.)

[KevShmev]

I'm not saying you have to spend $2000 to be a "real fan". I don't even know what a "real fan" is.  I'm a diehard Kiss fan, and at this point (not because of the band, but because I've seen them so many times), I'm not paying more than $50 for a ticket. I'm just saying, I don't quite understand this concept that somehow tickets have to be in a certain price range. Bruce isn't my favorite artist, but I do consider him the greatest living American artist, and if he wants to be paid, so what? 

(And remember, we're talking the best seats, now, not nosebleeds. I doubt you're paying $2000 to just get in the door.)

I agree, but with that "I want to get paid as much as possible" decisions comes consequences.  Like you, I am, generally speaking, in favor of the free market, and yay capitalism (by and large), but when you have spent your life portraying yourself as the working man who understands the plight of the working man, it's a bad look to price yourself out of the average working man coming to see you.

[El Barto]

I'm not saying you have to spend $2000 to be a "real fan". I don't even know what a "real fan" is.  I'm a diehard Kiss fan, and at this point (not because of the band, but because I've seen them so many times), I'm not paying more than $50 for a ticket. I'm just saying, I don't quite understand this concept that somehow tickets have to be in a certain price range. Bruce isn't my favorite artist, but I do consider him the greatest living American artist, and if he wants to be paid, so what? 

(And remember, we're talking the best seats, now, not nosebleeds. I doubt you're paying $2000 to just get in the door.)

I agree, but with that "I want to get paid as much as possible" decisions comes consequences.  Like you, I am, generally speaking, in favor of the free market, and yay capitalism (by and large), but when you have spent your life portraying yourself as the working man who understands the plight of the working man, it's a bad look to price yourself out of the average working man coming to see you.

Instead of seeing it as "as much as possible" look at it as "as much as people will be paying either way." Whether it's dynamic pricing or scalpers scarfing up all of the tickets the total gross is going to be roughly the same. The question is who gets that extra money. I think we'd all agree that we'd rather it go to Bruce than the scalpers.

[Stadler]

I'm not saying you have to spend $2000 to be a "real fan". I don't even know what a "real fan" is.  I'm a diehard Kiss fan, and at this point (not because of the band, but because I've seen them so many times), I'm not paying more than $50 for a ticket. I'm just saying, I don't quite understand this concept that somehow tickets have to be in a certain price range. Bruce isn't my favorite artist, but I do consider him the greatest living American artist, and if he wants to be paid, so what? 

(And remember, we're talking the best seats, now, not nosebleeds. I doubt you're paying $2000 to just get in the door.)

I agree, but with that "I want to get paid as much as possible" decisions comes consequences.  Like you, I am, generally speaking, in favor of the free market, and yay capitalism (by and large), but when you have spent your life portraying yourself as the working man who understands the plight of the working man, it's a bad look to price yourself out of the average working man coming to see you.

What Bart said, mostly, but even he'd tell you he's a big fat liar (that's how he started, more or less, his Broadway show, conceding that not only did he not work in a factory, but he never really held a real job of ANY kind in his life.  He later came to realize that most of his work was really homage to his parents, particularly his father, with whom he had a troubled relationship as a youth.

[cramx3]

The problem with dynamic pricing is in the implementation.  I tried to snag a ticket for a small show, about 10 of the 50 seats in the back of the venue were sold and dynamic pricing was already in effect.  It makes no sense, it's not a hot ticket.  I've seen a bunch of examples where dynamic pricing is happening on not hot events that makes me shake my head at how the system is implemented.

With regards to Bruce, I had previously thought he did a good job at making tickets affordable to his fans.  Maybe I'm wrong (I don't follow him closely), but if he's turned his back on helping his fans then I can see why people are upset. 

[Stadler]

He's playing Mohegan in March, I think.  I'll ask my buddy how they are pricing that show.

[Kwyjibo]

Maybe I'm naive and old-fashioned but I think a rock show should be affordable to a lot of people, although I know there's no obligation for it.

Another thing that came up in german newspapers recently was the argument, that for every 2000$ ticket one buys, the same person will probably abstain from a couple of cheaper concerts, meaning the big acts always sell a lot of tickets and get a lot of money while the smaller acts have problems selling enough tickets to break even.

And while that isn't necessarily the big acts fault, it isn't good for a lively and diverse music scene.

[Stadler]

Maybe I'm naive and old-fashioned but I think a rock show should be affordable to a lot of people, although I know there's no obligation for it.

Another thing that came up in german newspapers recently was the argument, that for every 2000$ ticket one buys, the same person will probably abstain from a couple of cheaper concerts, meaning the big acts always sell a lot of tickets and get a lot of money while the smaller acts have problems selling enough tickets to break even.

And while that isn't necessarily the big acts fault, it isn't good for a lively and diverse music scene.

That's a problem anyway, at least in the post-COVID timeframe.  I know I have pretty much carte blanche from my wife to go to shows and when I was laying out prospective shows at the beginning of the year, even she said "You can't see EVERYTHING".   Certainly, some of the more fly by the seat of my pants shows are going by the wayside because there is just too much product out there.

[cramx3]

Another thing that came up in german newspapers recently was the argument, that for every 2000$ ticket one buys, the same person will probably abstain from a couple of cheaper concerts, meaning the big acts always sell a lot of tickets and get a lot of money while the smaller acts have problems selling enough tickets to break even.

I often wonder, "who is buying that expensive ticket?" and I think the answer is the person you are describing.  More so, the person who only goes to one concert a year if at all and has no issue spending a fortune for that one "must see" event.  These people greatly outnumber someone like myself.

I actually was chatting with a random dude who sat next to me at the Red Hot Chili Peppers concert last summer.  I think that was the most expensive ticket I bought last year at $250 (face value, not with dynamic pricing or from a reseller).  I asked what he paid OOC (we were already chatting so it wasn't out of no where) and he paid the same amount but the guy next to him actually paid more.  But I followed up with (to both guys now) how many concerts do you go to in a year?  And both said maybe once or twice. 

And it sucks for someone like myself who would go to as many as possible.  It's just becoming unaffordable to do so.  Now I know they don't need to cater to me, but it does suck that if I'm not there exactly on time for a presale for some of these shows, I get priced out very quickly.  I've already not attended some shows from too high prices this year (and I paid an extremely high price for another to balance it out).

[KevShmev]

There is always going to be a way for the market to bridge the gap between the "face value" and the actual ticket value.

Ticketmaster is an awful company.

That said, the idea of dynamic ticketing, which is a far more transparent system, is actually a good one.

Can you unpack this a little for me?

From where I sit, dynamic pricing simply gives TM the right to raise prices as much as they want if the demand is there, which it generally will be for any artist of any reasonable popularity.  Don't get me wrong, I generally take the "if the ticket prices are too high, then don't go" approach, but handing TM and Live Nation a free pass to simply jack the prices up and gouge fans seems like a pretty bad idea, IMO.

As it previously stood, Ticketmaster would backdoor tickets to their own associated sites or vendors, or bots would scoop up good seats and resell them. In either case the prices are getting jacked up to meet demand. In this case at least Ticketmaster is up front and just adjusting transparently from point of sale what the price should be based on demand.

It's far fairer and to the point then all the bullshit and e-back alley idiocy that typically went on.

Sorry, I meant to reply to this earlier.

I get what you are saying, but the issue there is TM's refusal to do anything about the bots and whatnot, and I don't buy for a second that they can't take measures to stop it or at least greatly put a dent in it.  I am shoveling shit against the tide, I get it, but I, like seemingly most fans these days, is just frustrated with the inability to get affordable concert tickets anymore.  I am in the advantageous position where I can afford to go to any show I want for any price, and I know I am lucky in that regard, but many are not so lucky; it just sucks for the music fan.

[HOF]

I rarely go to concerts and doubt I’ve ever paid more than $50 for a ticket, but every time I think about ticket prices I think about how much music I could buy from the artist for that same amount and listen to it in the comfort of my own home at my preferred volume.

[KevShmev]

I rarely go to concerts and doubt I’ve ever paid more than $50 for a ticket, but every time I think about ticket prices I think about how much music I could buy from the artist for that same amount and listen to it in the comfort of my own home at my preferred volume.

11, right?

[HOF]

I rarely go to concerts and doubt I’ve ever paid more than $50 for a ticket, but every time I think about ticket prices I think about how much music I could buy from the artist for that same amount and listen to it in the comfort of my own home at my preferred volume.

11, right?

May get to 8.

[Stadler]

There is always going to be a way for the market to bridge the gap between the "face value" and the actual ticket value.

Ticketmaster is an awful company.

That said, the idea of dynamic ticketing, which is a far more transparent system, is actually a good one.

Can you unpack this a little for me?

From where I sit, dynamic pricing simply gives TM the right to raise prices as much as they want if the demand is there, which it generally will be for any artist of any reasonable popularity.  Don't get me wrong, I generally take the "if the ticket prices are too high, then don't go" approach, but handing TM and Live Nation a free pass to simply jack the prices up and gouge fans seems like a pretty bad idea, IMO.

As it previously stood, Ticketmaster would backdoor tickets to their own associated sites or vendors, or bots would scoop up good seats and resell them. In either case the prices are getting jacked up to meet demand. In this case at least Ticketmaster is up front and just adjusting transparently from point of sale what the price should be based on demand.

It's far fairer and to the point then all the bullshit and e-back alley idiocy that typically went on.

Sorry, I meant to reply to this earlier.

I get what you are saying, but the issue there is TM's refusal to do anything about the bots and whatnot, and I don't buy for a second that they can't take measures to stop it or at least greatly put a dent in it.  I am shoveling shit against the tide, I get it, but I, like seemingly most fans these days, is just frustrated with the inability to get affordable concert tickets anymore.  I am in the advantageous position where I can afford to go to any show I want for any price, and I know I am lucky in that regard, but many are not so lucky; it just sucks for the music fan.

That is my one legit beef with TM.  If they released 1,000 tickets, and 1,000 tickets went to purchasers willing to pay $2000 to see the show, I have nothing to say.   That's simply supply and demand, and I rest easy knowing that act has benefitted from their hard work.   It's the sketchy bots and the fact that so many tickets end up right back at the TM site with little to no transparency as to how they got there.   

I see a lot of shows; I frequently travel to Boston or NY or even Philly to see shows.  The last show I saw in Mohegan, in Connecticut, was pre-COVID.  Keith Urban, and I used a scalper.   I tried to get tickets for Luke Combs, and we got ONE from his fan club presale, but it was almost impossible to get a second without paying an exorbitant amount.  For me, mid-bowl in a shitty arena is not worth 4 bills.   But after we bailed, I tried to sell mine for $200 and got nothing.  What gives?

[cramx3]

I mentioned this last year in the concert thread, there's seriously a huge shift in ticketing and reselling that started last year.  It's all anecdotal evidence from my experiences and I know El Barto didn't see it the same from his experiences, but I can only think there's a group of people (or bots or corporations) that have a holding on a lot of the tickets or something.  I'm really starting to feel like for livenation hot tickets, you need to be there early for the pre-sale (not normal sale) to get the best priced tickets and you'll also need to be really lucky to not have any issues while in the queue waiting and you'll still need to be quick to beat any bots that also may be waiting to get tickets once you get in. The resale game just doesn't work anymore to get a cheap ticket for any popular concert hosted by livenation these days. 

[goo-goo]

While the system is broken (and abused), I usually have been succesful at getting decent priced systems. I typically sign up for the promoter’s newsletter and that has been working pretty much the last 4-5 yrs. My order of mailing lists is this:

-Promoters
-Venue
-Artist
-Ticketmaster/LN

[XeRocks81]

btw I managed to grab some Springsteen tickets for Montreal next november.   Around 200$ CAD each for seats in the upper sections of the arena.  I’ve never seen him live so I’m pretty thrilled.