Author Topic: It's not all art, in artworks.  (Read 2350 times)

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Offline Wim Kruithof

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It's not all art, in artworks.
« on: February 02, 2023, 05:00:56 AM »
Couldn't find a similar topic about Dream Theaters artwork, but when there is, feel free to lock this attempt. I remember there's been discussing the shine (or miss) from Black Clouds somewhere around here, but can't find a topic about album art.

The artwork of an album release to me is a very important part of the whole experience. That's one of the reasons I'll buy all DT's available artbooks on the market. Luna Park, Distance Over Time and A View I own already. The graphics are beautiful and give extra meanings to songs like Barstool Warrior or Sleeping Giant, when the message is not only delivered through the lyrics or melodie, but also visually.

But being a vinyl-purist, the album cover is most important. I guess that's one of the main reasons I can't really get into Falling Into Infinity. There are songs among them which are great, but the whole album is just not mine. And the artwork has all to do with that. Not their logo or Dream Theater-letters, just a Pink Floyd-copy which isn't even good, it's such a shame. And of course the same is to say 'bout Once In a Livetime.

I think Images and Words, Awake, Train of Thought, Octavarium, Black Clouds & Silver Linings and A View are their best. It's awesome a lot of pictures on covers make references to lyrics in the songs. I also really like Distant Memories, were they intertwined both Scenes from a Memory and the Distance-skull.

I wonder if the art-focus is common here at DTF and if you think if there 's one (or a couple) that's the most beautiful.
Wim pointed out something I don't see mentioned very often...

Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: It's not all art, in artworks.
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2023, 07:36:09 AM »
Whether it's DT or not, good or great album art has always enhanced the album in some immeasurable way for me.

However, on the other hand, it's a cover for an album, so the music therein is paramount.  Bad album artwork has never once caused me to enjoy any music less.
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Offline Lonk

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Re: It's not all art, in artworks.
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2023, 07:55:47 AM »
There was a topic in the General Music part of the forum about good albums with bad cover art, and good cover art but bad albums.

I don't think DT's forte is their album art, but some of them are pretty good.
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Offline pg1067

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Re: It's not all art, in artworks.
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2023, 09:36:59 AM »
I'll buy all DT's available artbooks on the market. Luna Park, Distance Over Time and A View I own already.

What are these "artbooks"?  I've never heard of them.


the album cover is most important. I guess that's one of the main reasons I can't really get into Falling Into Infinity. There are songs among them which are great, but the whole album is just not mine. And the artwork has all to do with that.

This just seems really odd to me.  A cool album cover is nice, but it has zero bearing on my enjoyment of the music.  FII is a bottom 5 DT album for me because of the music, and I don't see the cover as being significantly better or worse than any of their other album covers.
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Offline SjundeInseglet

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Re: It's not all art, in artworks.
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2023, 09:51:01 AM »
And the artwork has all to do with that. Not their logo or Dream Theater-letters, just a Pink Floyd-copy which isn't even good, it's such a shame. And of course the same is to say 'bout Once In a Livetime.

Well, Storm Thorgerson did the artwork for those albums so I really don't think it's accurate to say that those covers are a "Pink Floyd copy". I suppose you could say Thorgerson was repeating himself (with diminishing returns) but not that he was "copying" himself. How does one even copy oneself? 

Offline cramx3

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Re: It's not all art, in artworks.
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2023, 09:54:43 AM »
I'd love for whoever is doing the current Haken artwork to give DT a run on their next album. 

Offline The Letter M

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Re: It's not all art, in artworks.
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2023, 10:11:24 AM »
I'll buy all DT's available artbooks on the market. Luna Park, Distance Over Time and A View I own already.

What are these "artbooks"?  I've never heard of them.

Artbooks are the general term used by record companies to refer to larger-sized albums, usually 12"x12". Imagine a mediabook album but larger. These typically house more than two discs, and sometimes up to eight (four on the inside of each cover). They are also sometimes referred to as "earbooks".

As far as I know, the only albums that have had this kind of release are:
Live At Luna Park
Distance Over Time
Distant Memories
A View From The Top Of The World

The last three were released after the band has signed to Inside Out, who is known for making these types of releases for their big marquee bands, so I expect most future DT releases to have his format while they're still with Inside Out.

-Marc.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2023, 10:18:46 AM by The Letter M »
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Offline Wim Kruithof

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Re: It's not all art, in artworks.
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2023, 11:07:46 AM »
This just seems really odd to me.  A cool album cover is nice, but it has zero bearing on my enjoyment of the music.  FII is a bottom 5 DT album for me because of the music, and I don't see the cover as being significantly better or worse than any of their other album covers.

I can follow one thinking it's odd, but it's also true. Like with A View. Listening to the album while watching the beautiful graphics is helping me, bringing it to a deeper dimension. And although Falling Into Infinity is musically a low-tier for me, the awful cover surely isn't helping.

Well, Storm Thorgerson did the artwork for those albums so I really don't think it's accurate to say that those covers are a "Pink Floyd copy". I suppose you could say Thorgerson was repeating himself (with diminishing returns) but not that he was "copying" himself. How does one even copy oneself? 

I wasn't saying he was copying himself, but you can obviously see Wish You Were Here ('75), A Momentary Lapse of Reason ('87) and The Division Bell ('94) similarities. That it was 'Pink Floyd-ish' was what I was trying to say.
Wim pointed out something I don't see mentioned very often...

Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: It's not all art, in artworks.
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2023, 12:31:44 PM »
I'll buy all DT's available artbooks on the market. Luna Park, Distance Over Time and A View I own already.

What are these "artbooks"?  I've never heard of them.

Artbooks are the general term used by record companies to refer to larger-sized albums, usually 12"x12". Imagine a mediabook album but larger. These typically house more than two discs, and sometimes up to eight (four on the inside of each cover). They are also sometimes referred to as "earbooks".

As far as I know, the only albums that have had this kind of release are:
Live At Luna Park
Distance Over Time
Distant Memories
A View From The Top Of The World

The last three were released after the band has signed to Inside Out, who is known for making these types of releases for their big marquee bands, so I expect most future DT releases to have his format while they're still with Inside Out.

-Marc.
I have those last two, and one for LTE 3, and I love them.
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Offline The Letter M

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Re: It's not all art, in artworks.
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2023, 12:39:05 PM »
I'll buy all DT's available artbooks on the market. Luna Park, Distance Over Time and A View I own already.

What are these "artbooks"?  I've never heard of them.

Artbooks are the general term used by record companies to refer to larger-sized albums, usually 12"x12". Imagine a mediabook album but larger. These typically house more than two discs, and sometimes up to eight (four on the inside of each cover). They are also sometimes referred to as "earbooks".

As far as I know, the only albums that have had this kind of release are:
Live At Luna Park
Distance Over Time
Distant Memories
A View From The Top Of The World

The last three were released after the band has signed to Inside Out, who is known for making these types of releases for their big marquee bands, so I expect most future DT releases to have his format while they're still with Inside Out.

-Marc.
I have those last two, and one for LTE 3, and I love them.

I've got all four (the two studio albums' box sets came with them included), and they are indeed gorgeous. For most of my favorite bands, I try to get the artbook/earbook versions, including releases from LTE, Transatlantic (the Kaleidoscope one is brilliant with its lenticular cover), Porcupine Tree/Steven Wilson projects, and Ayreon/Arjen Lcuassen projects. They're hard to store/display because I don't have enough shelf-space for them, so many of them are in plastic storage bins under my bed for the time being, but it keeps them safe! Funnily enough, I did NOT get the newest Riverside album artbook, as I want to keep all their albums at CD-package size releases. I enjoy their music a lot, but not THAT much.

-Marc.
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: It's not all art, in artworks.
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2023, 12:46:53 PM »
I buy virtually no physical media anymore, but with new album releases by my favorite bands (DT and related), I will most likely continue to get the artbooks as long as they continue to offer them.
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Offline pg1067

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Re: It's not all art, in artworks.
« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2023, 01:07:37 PM »
Artbooks are the general term used by record companies to refer to larger-sized albums, usually 12"x12". Imagine a mediabook album but larger. These typically house more than two discs, and sometimes up to eight (four on the inside of each cover). They are also sometimes referred to as "earbooks".

So...wait...I don't know what a "mediabook" is either.  Are you talking about the liner notes and what-not that come with a vinyl record (the 12x12 reference)?  The links you gave just showed multi-disc CD packages, but that doesn't seem to be what the OP is talking about.
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: It's not all art, in artworks.
« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2023, 01:23:54 PM »
Artbooks are the general term used by record companies to refer to larger-sized albums, usually 12"x12". Imagine a mediabook album but larger. These typically house more than two discs, and sometimes up to eight (four on the inside of each cover). They are also sometimes referred to as "earbooks".

So...wait...I don't know what a "mediabook" is either.  Are you talking about the liner notes and what-not that come with a vinyl record (the 12x12 reference)?  The links you gave just showed multi-disc CD packages, but that doesn't seem to be what the OP is talking about.
The books are oversized, the size of LPs.  The inner cover usually contains the CDs and/or DVD/blu-rays (whatever that edition comes with).  The book is filled with, well, all kinds of stuff, really.  Lots of extra album-style art, lyrics, liner notes, usually an article/interview/some kind of write-up, band photos, whatever they can think of to make that edition of that release special.
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Offline pg1067

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Re: It's not all art, in artworks.
« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2023, 01:37:39 PM »
So...like a book that is used as the packaging for CDs?

 :tup

And I assume that's the one that costs upwards of $100 that I don't give any consideration to buying.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: It's not all art, in artworks.
« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2023, 01:51:34 PM »
I think Live at Luna Park was originally well over $100.  I held off buying it, and eventually sites were selling leftover copies pretty cheaply.
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Offline The Letter M

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Re: It's not all art, in artworks.
« Reply #15 on: February 02, 2023, 02:00:22 PM »
So here's what I've learned are what certain packaging formats are called:
-Jewel Case - pretty obvious, been a standard for decades since the original CDs were introduced. These can house 1 or 2, sometimes 3 CDs or various Discs (SACD, DVD-A, DVD, BD, etc).
-Super Jewel Case - these are like the above, but have rounded corners. Not sure why there was a distinction made, but for some, they look nicer.
-Digipak - These have become a new standard in reducing plastic for CD packages. They can come in two or three panel fold-out paks, usually have a pocket or a die-cut slot to hold the liner notes booklet. They may also have plastic trays glued inside of them to hold discs, or the discs may slot into pockets, onto nubs inside the disc hole, or sit inside die-cut slots.
-Digibook - Like the above, but the liner notes booklet is glued into the case, making it unable to be removed, giving it a book-style feel, thus the name.
-Mediabook - Like digibooks, with the booklet glued into the packaging, but these are usually a bit bigger than normal CD cases, and feature a hardcover-book-style outside, and typically have plastic trays glued to the inside of the front and back covers to hold discs.
-Artbook/Earbook - as stated above, these are much larger than mediabooks, usually vinyl/LP size albums and so they feature larger pages for the booklet/liner notes, usually with extra art or text from the band or others.

Note - I've seen both digibook and mediabook used interchangebly so it can be confusing, but basically both are just disc packages with the booklets bound into the spine of the package. They may or may not feature hardcover style front and back covers, but the distinction is usually the booklet being set into the package, just like their bigger artbook relatives.

Did I miss any? It's weird how many ways CDs have come to be packaged over the years, and they're all usually to necessitate the inclusion of extras, be is an Instrumental Version of the album, a DVD/BD audio version with surround sound and/or behind the scenes video, bonus discs with exclusive tracks, or all of the above. Of course, they also cost a lot more. Most mediabooks run $25-35 depending on the band, label, and what's included, though some have gone cheaper. Artbooks tend to go for at least $50 and sometimes as high as $150 depending on what's included (looking at you, Steven Wilson...).

Artbooks are the general term used by record companies to refer to larger-sized albums, usually 12"x12". Imagine a mediabook album but larger. These typically house more than two discs, and sometimes up to eight (four on the inside of each cover). They are also sometimes referred to as "earbooks".

So...wait...I don't know what a "mediabook" is either.  Are you talking about the liner notes and what-not that come with a vinyl record (the 12x12 reference)?  The links you gave just showed multi-disc CD packages, but that doesn't seem to be what the OP is talking about.

As far as I can tell, the ones I linked to ARE what the OP is talking about. Those are the four currently available/released Dream Theater artbook releases. They're just called that because they're larger albums that allow more pages to be included, thus more artwork.

-Marc.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2023, 02:05:52 PM by The Letter M »
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: It's not all art, in artworks.
« Reply #16 on: February 02, 2023, 02:09:15 PM »
So...like a book that is used as the packaging for CDs?

 :tup

And I assume that's the one that costs upwards of $100 that I don't give any consideration to buying.
Not that much.  At least, the 3 I've gotten have been in the $50 range.
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Offline cramx3

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Re: It's not all art, in artworks.
« Reply #17 on: February 02, 2023, 02:29:06 PM »
I have the Distant Memories earbook/artbook.  It's really nice.  However, I don't know if I'll buy them for normal releases, just something that maybe I feel is special.  So far the few I have are all for live albums because that's how you got the blu-ray or something similar.

Offline Stadler

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Re: It's not all art, in artworks.
« Reply #18 on: February 23, 2023, 07:04:13 AM »
I'll buy all DT's available artbooks on the market. Luna Park, Distance Over Time and A View I own already.

What are these "artbooks"?  I've never heard of them.

Artbooks are the general term used by record companies to refer to larger-sized albums, usually 12"x12". Imagine a mediabook album but larger. These typically house more than two discs, and sometimes up to eight (four on the inside of each cover). They are also sometimes referred to as "earbooks".

As far as I know, the only albums that have had this kind of release are:
Live At Luna Park
Distance Over Time
Distant Memories
A View From The Top Of The World

The last three were released after the band has signed to Inside Out, who is known for making these types of releases for their big marquee bands, so I expect most future DT releases to have his format while they're still with Inside Out.

-Marc.

The art books for the Marillion re-releases (used for the Jethro Tull ones as well) are optimal for me.  I love that size, that format, that look.  That should be the standard, IMO.

Offline JeopardousRaven

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Re: It's not all art, in artworks.
« Reply #19 on: February 23, 2023, 11:37:40 PM »
I agree OP, I believe that album art contributes more to a person's enjoyment of an album than many of us would care to admit. My personal opinion is that Dream Theater has always lacked something in the album art department. Interestingly enough, I've always loved the album covers for their live albums, especially LSFNY (the original), Bodukan, Breaking the Fourth Wall, and Distant Memories.

Offline Wim Kruithof

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Re: It's not all art, in artworks.
« Reply #20 on: February 24, 2023, 03:07:38 PM »
That's indeed interesting. From their live releases I might say Score is their best artwork, in my opinion. But I love al their artworks, although some more than others.

All, but Falling Into Infinity and Once In a Livetime. I really love their own style of 'Dream Theater' and their logo always being somewere on that artwork. And although their logo is printed on Falling Into Infinity (tiny below), the artwork is miserable.
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Offline ytserush

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Re: It's not all art, in artworks.
« Reply #21 on: February 27, 2023, 05:55:48 PM »
Have the Artbooks but not really a fan. Only reason I have them is that there is music or a format that is only available by getting the Artbook. I'd be fine with media books or CD/DVD packages only because they provide the best value for my money without adding value to justify the price. But that's just me. I expect I'll have to keep buying the Dream Theater ones but Artbooks might not be around for anymore Flying Colors, Transatlantic, or Liquid Tension Experiment albums if there are any in the the future.

Offline ReaperKK

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Re: It's not all art, in artworks.
« Reply #22 on: March 04, 2023, 08:00:21 AM »
So...like a book that is used as the packaging for CDs?

 :tup

And I assume that's the one that costs upwards of $100 that I don't give any consideration to buying.
Not that much.  At least, the 3 I've gotten have been in the $50 range.

Years ago I picked up Pink Floyd's The Wall Live 1980-1981 and that had the cd's embedded into the art book, you tore off the edges of the bookends and the disc's slide out. It was really cool.

Personally good album artwork has always enhanced the record for me, especially since I like collecting vinyl copies of records I really like. That said I think Hugh Syme and his team have done a disservice to DT. His artwork always felt lazy and slapped together. Take a landscape, slap some lyrical references in there, play with their scale, bonus points if you use artwork you used on another bands album, and boom new DT album artwork.

Offline The Letter M

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Re: It's not all art, in artworks.
« Reply #23 on: March 04, 2023, 12:31:23 PM »
So...like a book that is used as the packaging for CDs?

 :tup

And I assume that's the one that costs upwards of $100 that I don't give any consideration to buying.
Not that much.  At least, the 3 I've gotten have been in the $50 range.

Years ago I picked up Pink Floyd's The Wall Live 1980-1981 and that had the cd's embedded into the art book, you tore off the edges of the bookends and the disc's slide out. It was really cool.

Personally good album artwork has always enhanced the record for me, especially since I like collecting vinyl copies of records I really like. That said I think Hugh Syme and his team have done a disservice to DT. His artwork always felt lazy and slapped together. Take a landscape, slap some lyrical references in there, play with their scale, bonus points if you use artwork you used on another bands album, and boom new DT album artwork.

I would say that Hugh's approach to DT's covers is both DT wanting to copy Rush and just doing what they've always done.

In this 2015 interview with Larry Freemantle on the making of the IAW album artwork, he states that JM and JP were the main ones in the band to really work with him on the artwork for the album. They wanted all of those different elements on the cover, references to the songs, etc., so this approach to album artwork has ALWAYS been a part of the band's DNA, well before Hugh Syme became involved with them in 2005 with Octavarium. Larry also did the artwork for Awake and ACOS, which also had similar collage-style covers.

I think the band finally got with Hugh because they have always had the "What Would Rush Do" mentality, so why not get the guy who did Rush artwork to do their art? I don't really hold it against Hugh for the style or design of the covers, since that art direction was always a part of the band, but I do blame some of the laziness of it, though I'm sure the band has always had final say on the artwork, so shame on them too if you think their art has suffered under Hugh.  :lol

-Marc.
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