The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Announces Nominees for 2023 Induction

[Anguyen92]

It's that time again.  Time to be all grumbly grumbly about the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame nominations for this year.

https://blabbermouth.net/news/iron-maiden-rage-against-the-machine-and-soundgarden-among-nominees-for-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-2023-induction

IRON MAIDEN, RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE and SOUNDGARDEN are among the nominees for the Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame's Class Of 2023.

To be eligible for this year's ballot, each nominee’s first single or album had to have been released in 1998 or earlier. Eight of the nominees (Sheryl Crow, Missy Elliott, JOY DIVISION/NEW ORDER, Cyndi Lauper, George Michael, Willie Nelson, THE WHITE STRIPES and Warren Zevon) are on the ballot for the first time.

This is the fifth nomination for RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE, the fourth for Kate Bush and THE SPINNERS, and the second for IRON MAIDEN and A TRIBE CALLED QUEST.

For me, I will say this, I think Hall of Fames of any kind is a great farce and an ego-trippin, pissing match, so rather than focus of whose nominated, I'm going to link an article about those that are eligible, but not nominated and probably won't be nominated for many many years.

https://loudwire.com/artists-newly-eligible-rock-hall-2023-werent-nominated/

Some of these bands are the bands of my youth.  Evanescence, Limp Bizkit, Creed, SOAD, Sevendust, Switchfoot, and more.  Yeah.....  I don't see any of these bands getting in within a decade or so.

[SoundscapeMN]

happy to see George Michael, Sheryl Crow and Iron Maiden.

This probably will be the year for Kate Bush per the bigger visibility via Stranger Things.

But still no Monkees or Nesmith.

My wife is a massive fan of the Monkees and Nez, but also a huge fan of George Michael and a big fan of Sheryl Crow, so we may end up attending the Ceremony assuming they get in.

The White Stripes getting the nod a year early and them lumping together Joy Division/New Order reeks of the Hall moving the goalpost.

[hefdaddy42]

Here's the list.

Kate Bush
Sheryl Crow
Missy Elliott
Iron Maiden
Joy Division/New Order
Cyndi Lauper
George Michael
Willie Nelson
Rage Against the Machine
Soundgarden
The Spinners
A Tribe Called Quest
The White Stripes
Warren Zevon

All in all I think it's a good list.  The ones I would especially question are Sheryl Crow, Missy Elliott, and The White Stripes.  I know they have been successful, but I just question how really influential they have been, especially compare with the others.  But whatever.

[Stadler]

happy to see George Michael, Sheryl Crow and Iron Maiden.

This probably will be the year for Kate Bush per the bigger visibility via Stranger Things.

But still no Monkees or Nesmith.

My wife is a massive fan of the Monkees and Nez, but also a huge fan of George Michael and a big fan of Sheryl Crow, so we may end up attending the Ceremony assuming they get in.

The White Stripes getting the nod a year early and them lumping together Joy Division/New Order reeks of the Hall moving the goalpost.

I'd'a thought you wouldn't be pleased with the Sheryl Crow nom.  I know I'm not (for different reasons). I can't stand her.  That's a very underwhelming list, if you ask me.  And there are enough acts on that list that satisfy Jann Wenner's ego (read: nothing to do with music, everything to do with politics/worldview) that Iron Maiden is not a shoo-in by any means. I really hope they don't get that back-handed "musical performer" or whatever the fuck it was that Priest got.   What an embarrassment.

I'm also still on the "WTF, Phil Collins solo" bandwagon. 

[SoundscapeMN]

happy to see George Michael, Sheryl Crow and Iron Maiden.

This probably will be the year for Kate Bush per the bigger visibility via Stranger Things.

But still no Monkees or Nesmith.

My wife is a massive fan of the Monkees and Nez, but also a huge fan of George Michael and a big fan of Sheryl Crow, so we may end up attending the Ceremony assuming they get in.

The White Stripes getting the nod a year early and them lumping together Joy Division/New Order reeks of the Hall moving the goalpost.

I'd'a thought you wouldn't be pleased with the Sheryl Crow nom.  I know I'm not (for different reasons). I can't stand her.  That's a very underwhelming list, if you ask me.  And there are enough acts on that list that satisfy Jann Wenner's ego (read: nothing to do with music, everything to do with politics/worldview) that Iron Maiden is not a shoo-in by any means. I really hope they don't get that back-handed "musical performer" or whatever the fuck it was that Priest got.   What an embarrassment.

I'm also still on the "WTF, Phil Collins solo" bandwagon.

I said my peace in regards to Phil Collins and 1 of the Rock Hall Podcasts (1 I used to like/follow/listen to, but decided to forget about until recently again)

https://twitter.com/AllMediaReviews/status/1620911703172202501

another reminder why #PhilCollins belongs in the @rockhall (Solo). @rockhallpod talked about with @GeorgeMichael
 getting nom & likely to get in: there would be no iconic 80's stars left (Whitney,Janet,MJ, Prince,Madonna). Just on # of POP HITS alone (12, TOP 10), Phil belongs.

as far as Sheryl, no, I'm at peace with her and she should get in, despite my lack of enjoying most of her music. Everything with Kevin Gilbert is water under the bridge (no pun intended), and really was misconstrued given from a stand point of finger-pointing Kevin Gilbert fans. The fact is, she and Kevin were not nearly at odds as much as many of the stories that have been told.

They actually worked together on those Steve Miller covers of "The Joker" long after the Tuesday Night Music Club ended. They were competitive you could say, and certainly Kevin and the TMC ended up playing on and getting credit eventually for the music on her record. And she hit it big, while he never did, but I don't look at that as that being Sheryl's fault really, and more to do with luck and even Kevin's personality and responsibility.

Could Sheryl help promote Kevin's music? YES. She doesn't have an obligation though. The documentary from 2022 that came out did tell some details about Kevin and the TMC at least, so she's not dismissing it.

In a perfect situation, Sheryl is not maligned anymore from most of the Kevin Gilbert fan base, and she even does some interviews with others talking about Kevin and her history with him. And MAYBE, just MAYBE, some of those Demos and recordings from the TMC could come out 1 day for us KG lifers to salivate over. I wonder if there's even a number of those tunes where Kevin sings on, etc.

She actually did talk a little bit about Kevin and that while talking about the documentary on the Rockentours Podcast with Guy Pratt and Gary Kemp (Guy Pratt also played and co-wrote music with Toy Matinee of course).

Also, from a standpoint of living in a household with a wife whose a big Sheryl fan, my hating on her would not necessarily make for the most peaceful discussions involving Sheryl and Kevin Gilbert. I.e. it's for the best just to support her fandom, and not generate any conflict at this point.

Maiden, I hope doesn't end in the BS/sidebar "Musical Excellence" like Priest, Nile Rodgers and LL Cool J. That may be The Monkees best shot, although with those 3 names, at least they were nominated many times. Monkees never have even been nominated. Nesmith though I suppose might have a chance given his role in the creation of MTV at least.

[pg1067]

Cyndi Lauper is currently leading the fan vote by a pretty wide margin, with George Michael, Willie Nelson, Soundgarden and Maiden filling out the top 5.

For me, Lauper and Crow are basically the same:  MONSTER debut album, solid follow up and then what?  Cyndi Lauper has done some acting and a prescription drug commercial, but so what, and I don't think I'd heard Sheryl Crows name in the 21st century until she showed up to induct Carly Simon.

I assume Rage and Soundgarden will get in, along with Willie Nelson.  I know Joy Division/New Order were big among the new wave crowd when I was in high school.  Beyond that, who knows?

[King Postwhore]

Cyndi Lauper is currently leading the fan vote by a pretty wide margin, with George Michael, Willie Nelson, Soundgarden and Maiden filling out the top 5.

For me, Lauper and Crow are basically the same:  MONSTER debut album, solid follow up and then what?  Cyndi Lauper has done some acting and a prescription drug commercial, but so what, and I don't think I'd heard Sheryl Crows name in the 21st century until she showed up to induct Carly Simon.

I assume Rage and Soundgarden will get in, along with Willie Nelson.  I know Joy Division/New Order were big among the new wave crowd when I was in high school.  Beyond that, who knows?

It's funny, Both Lauper & Crow sold 50 million albums each.  Cindi's first album sold 16 million and her follow up sold 2 mil.  Crow was mid 8 million and he second was mid 4 mil.  Cindi took a bigger drop in sales at the years went by.

[HOF]

as far as Sheryl, no, I'm at peace with her and she should get in, despite my lack of enjoying most of her music. Everything with Kevin Gilbert is water under the bridge (no pun intended), and really was misconstrued given from a stand point of finger-pointing Kevin Gilbert fans. The fact is, she and Kevin were not nearly at odds as much as many of the stories that have been told.

They actually worked together on those Steve Miller covers of "The Joker" long after the Tuesday Night Music Club ended. They were competitive you could say, and certainly Kevin and the TMC ended up playing on and getting credit eventually for the music on her record. And she hit it big, while he never did, but I don't look at that as that being Sheryl's fault really, and more to do with luck and even Kevin's personality and responsibility.

Could Sheryl help promote Kevin's music? YES. She doesn't have an obligation though. The documentary from 2022 that came out did tell some details about Kevin and the TMC at least, so she's not dismissing it.

In a perfect situation, Sheryl is not maligned anymore from most of the Kevin Gilbert fan base, and she even does some interviews with others talking about Kevin and her history with him. And MAYBE, just MAYBE, some of those Demos and recordings from the TMC could come out 1 day for us KG lifers to salivate over. I wonder if there's even a number of those tunes where Kevin sings on, etc.

She actually did talk a little bit about Kevin and that while talking about the documentary on the Rockentours Podcast with Guy Pratt and Gary Kemp (Guy Pratt also played and co-wrote music with Toy Matinee of course).

Also, from a standpoint of living in a household with a wife whose a big Sheryl fan, my hating on her would not necessarily make for the most peaceful discussions involving Sheryl and Kevin Gilbert. I.e. it's for the best just to support her fandom, and not generate any conflict at this point.

I always thought the Gilbert fan hatred of Crow was mostly just sour grapes and wondered how much of the fall out from their relationship has been misconstrued or become urban legend after the fact. It didn't seem like the others in the TNMC had nearly as much problem with her as Kevin seemed to, which makes sense since they were a couple. Bottrell and Mcleod at least kept working with her for a while after that. I didn't know she and Kevin actually collaborated together again beyond TNMC actually. I'll have to check out that episode of Rockenteurs, love that podcast.

As for Crow getting into the RRHOF, she has had enough career success to merit it as much as anyone else beyond whatever political connections she had. That said, while I think that first album is pretty good, I don't really care for anything else she's done.

[pg1067]

Cindi's first album sold 16 million and her follow up sold 2 mil.  Crow was mid 8 million and he second was mid 4 mil.

I wonder how much of the 16m v. 8m is people who bought She's So Unusual on vinyl or cassette and then re-buying it on CD versus most of the sales of TNMC being made on CD and there being no need to re-buy.

[Orbert]

It's funny, Both Lauper & Crow sold 50 million albums each.  Cindi's first album sold 16 million and her follow up sold 2 mil.  Crow was mid 8 million and he second was mid 4 mil.  Cindi took a bigger drop in sales at the years went by.

Wait, Cindi's first two albums sold 18M total, so where did the rest of that 50M come from?  The rest of her catalogue?

Same with Sheryl.  Her first two totalled 12M, but somehow she's sold 50M altogether?  Where are the rest of the sales?

I consider both them pretty good singers with solid debuts and decent follow-ups (as others have said), but I don't see either of them as strong enough to generate those kind of numbers.  Sheryl has 38 million sold not counting her first two?

[The Curious Orange]

Will definitely be inducted:

Sheryl Crow
Missy Elliott
George Michael
A Tribe Called Quest
The White Stripes

Will probably get inducted:

Joy Division/New Order
Cyndi Lauper
Willie Nelson
Rage Against the Machine
Soundgarden
The Spinners
Warren Zevon

No way on earth will they get inducted:

Kate Bush
Iron Maiden

[hefdaddy42]

Will definitely be inducted:

Sheryl Crow
Missy Elliott
George Michael
A Tribe Called Quest
The White Stripes

Will probably get inducted:

Joy Division/New Order
Cyndi Lauper
Willie Nelson
Rage Against the Machine
Soundgarden
The Spinners
Warren Zevon

No way on earth will they get inducted:

Kate Bush
Iron Maiden

I don't know.  I think Kate Bush is a pretty safe bet.

[Adami]

I don't know.  I think Kate Bush is a pretty safe bet.

Feels like an uphill battle for her.

[HOF]

I don't know.  I think Kate Bush is a pretty safe bet.

Feels like an uphill battle for her.

But I do think she will get in on the strength of the Stranger Things revival.

[Stadler]

Crow (don't forget, she also spent some time singing for Don Henley, so she's plugged into that crowd, which is generally very over-represented in the Hall), Lauper and Michael are shoo-ins.  After that, it's a crap shoot.

[Zook]

So why are The White Stripes nominated if they missed the cut off, and why are they nominated in general?

[Stadler]

So why are The White Stripes nominated if they missed the cut off, and why are they nominated in general?

Because Jack White plays ball.

[Adami]

So why are The White Stripes nominated if they missed the cut off, and why are they nominated in general?

Racism. Notice Jack White gets nominated but not Jack Black?

Need I say more?

[Zook]

#moreblacksintheRRHOF

[pg1067]

So why are The White Stripes nominated if they missed the cut off, and why are they nominated in general?

Racism. Notice Jack White gets nominated but not Jack Black?

Need I say more?

 

[bl5150]

I've never heard of Missy Elliott or  A Tribe Called Quest , so they'll get in for sure.  Iron Maiden can wait!

[jjrock88]

Rock bands don't seem to care about the HOF and from what I read, Judas Priest got the ham n egger slot last year.

[Cool Chris]

I used the use the metric of "I should know at least two of your songs to qualify" which would eliminate:

Kate Bush
Sheryl Crow
Missy Elliott
Rage Against the Machine
The Spinners
A Tribe Called Quest
The White Stripes

There's a video on YouTube of Kate Bush performing with David Gilmour, and the top comment is: "Two legends coming together for a moment of blessing. Absolutely biblical!" Are we really putting Kate Bush in the "legend" status with Gilmour?

It's funny, Both Lauper & Crow sold 50 million albums each. 

Whoa!

[NoseofNicko]

There's a video on YouTube of Kate Bush performing with David Gilmour, and the top comment is: "Two legends coming together for a moment of blessing. Absolutely biblical!" Are we really putting Kate Bush in the "legend" status with Gilmour?

Since she’s the greatest female artist of all time, yes.

I mean do you really think there isn’t a single GREAT artist that you know less than 2 songs from out there?

[ThatOneGuy2112]

.

[Cool Chris]

That's why I said "used to" when I thought of the Rock n Roll Hall of Fame as for, you know... Rock n Roll artists. Anyone outside that genre didn't apply, but since the Hall isn't specific to that genre, that metric went out the window, because I rarely will be to name one song by any RnB, Rap, Hip Hop, or Country, artist. Which may or may not be a me problem

And like sports, a Hall of Fame should be for the elite, not everyone who is great.

[Zook]

That's why I said "used to" when I thought of the Rock n Roll Hall of Fame as for, you know... Rock n Roll artists. Anyone outside that genre didn't apply, but since the Hall isn't specific to that genre, that metric went out the window, because I rarely will be to name one song by any RnB, Rap, Hip Hop, or Country, artist. Which may or may not be a me problem

And like sports, a Hall of Fame should be for the elite, not everyone who is great.

How do we determine what bands or artists qualify as "elite"? If we go by the definition, the hall would have an echo. But considering it is called a hall of FAME, this, like most "100 best" lists is simply a popularity contest.

[SoundscapeMN]

they have a new "Mission" statement that I guess has them justify non "Rock" or "Rock N Roll" artists getting in.

https://www.spin.com/2023/02/the-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-2023-nominations-the-snubs-surprises-and-long-shots/

New Mission
On Monday, Rock Hall CEO Greg Harris shared an updated version of the Hall’s mission statement: “Born from the collision of rhythm & blues, country and gospel, rock ‘n’ roll is a spirit that is ever-changing. The Rock & Roll Hall of Fame celebrates the sound of youth culture and honors the artists whose music connects us all.”

Emphasizing “spirit” over sound or instrumentation is a smart move as the Hall increasingly casts a wider net outside of guitar-based rock. Indeed, hip-hop acts have been getting inducted almost every year for more than a decade. And last year, Dolly Parton joined Johnny Cash as one of the most notable country singers in the Rock Hall, although Parton herself was initially reluctant, at first declining her nomination. The first-time nomination of Willie Nelson, who’s been eligible since the Hall’s founding in the ‘80s, suggests that country legends may start becoming annual additions along with rappers and soul singers.

I actually went on to YouTube yesterday and did 1 of those Hyperbolic Rants (which to me at least feels like a lot of rehash) yesteday about the nominations and this stuff.

[Cool Chris]

That's why I said "used to" when I thought of the Rock n Roll Hall of Fame as for, you know... Rock n Roll artists. Anyone outside that genre didn't apply, but since the Hall isn't specific to that genre, that metric went out the window, because I rarely will be to name one song by any RnB, Rap, Hip Hop, or Country, artist. Which may or may not be a me problem

And like sports, a Hall of Fame should be for the elite, not everyone who is great.

How do we determine what bands or artists qualify as "elite"? If we go by the definition, the hall would have an echo. But considering it is called a hall of FAME, this, like most "100 best" lists is simply a popularity contest.

I know it's just my metric, I don't expect it to be absolute. I don't know how we objectively determine which musical artist, or baseball player for that matter, is elite.

[Mosh]

So why are The White Stripes nominated if they missed the cut off, and why are they nominated in general?

Isn't it based on the first release? White Stripes released their first single in 1998, 25 years ago.

[Orbert]

I just kinduv accept that it's not just Rock and Roll but more like an overall Music Hall of Fame.  That doesn't make it any more legit, but it at least addresses the fact that so many artists/bands that are in aren't even Rock and Roll, and so many acts that are Rock and Roll aren't in.  Whatever.  Maybe someday they'll rebrand it, and I still won't care.

[SoundscapeMN]

So why are The White Stripes nominated if they missed the cut off, and why are they nominated in general?

Isn't it based on the first release? White Stripes released their first single in 1998, 25 years ago.

based on that, Coldplay should have been eligible this year, but the committee didn't list them as eligible until 2024.

[cfmoran13]

The RARHOF's "new mission" is just a convenient way to excuse all the past non-RaR inductees and, going forward, potentially decrease the amount of backlash from rock and roll fans for any new inductees. 

I'm officially done getting upset over their nonsense.  Now that the criteria has changed, expect to see Mariah Carey on next year's ballot to be the next Whitney Houston type nominated.

[Stadler]

I used the use the metric of "I should know at least two of your songs to qualify" which would eliminate:

Kate Bush
Sheryl Crow
Missy Elliott
Rage Against the Machine
The Spinners
A Tribe Called Quest
The White Stripes

There's a video on YouTube of Kate Bush performing with David Gilmour, and the top comment is: "Two legends coming together for a moment of blessing. Absolutely biblical!" Are we really putting Kate Bush in the "legend" status with Gilmour?

That's our culture; we can't just say "we like something" or "I think this is good".  We've GOT to assign absolutes to everything.  There's no room for just "good" or "average" or whatever.   I think it's a drastic stretch to include Kate Bush in the category of "legend".  That's not saying she's not good, or didn't put out some very good music. 

[hefdaddy42]

To be fair, in some circles, she IS considered a legend.  Maybe you just clicked on a video made by someone in one of those circles.

In some circles, Dream Theater are considered legends.  Would I say that they are in all circumstances?  No.  But I can see how some people could describe them that way under some circumstances.