The Last of Us (HBO)

Started by lonestar, January 15, 2023, 09:02:36 PM

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ariich

Quote from: ErHaO on March 09, 2023, 09:33:19 AM
Quote from: ariich on March 08, 2023, 02:51:55 PM
They covered that change in the official podcast. Basically it's another extension of keeping the show more grounded. They considered the wider plot implications of there being hundreds of infected in the middle of nowhere. The more I think about it, the less it makes sense in the game - not that it bothers me at all, but i can see why they avoided it in the show.

I don't think it was a reason for the change, but the other thing it allowed them to do is focus more on David's manipulative side. In the game, it was chance that they had to fight off infected such that Ellie started to trust him. In the show, it was all him working to win her over.

Yeah, that is fair.

I do respect the decision to keep things more grounded. And in the Winter chapter it makes the most sense. With there being no infected, it gives the people a solid plot reason to keep surviving through the harsh winter as well.

The lack of infected makes for a unique "zombie" show. Actually, it really is more of a post apocalypse show where the infection started the downfall of society.

It keeps the game it's own experience as well, as that is much more of a voilent "against all odds" survival struggle through hordes of humans and infected. In the game's world it is offcourse also much easier to get infected (by breathing in an infectious amount of spores).
Which makes sense for the game, because a game needs enough active participation in the form of action (unless it's something like the Telltale games). I still think the storytelling in the games is phenomenal, but by virtue of being a game it has to sacrifice some realism/groundedness for the sake of gameplay.

I guess everyone interprets art and media differently, but I always saw TLOU as a post-apocalyptic story about people and societies, rather than actually about the infected. A lot of thought went into them for sure (in the games and the show) but mainly I saw them as the setting rather than the story.

And to be honest, I don't even agree with the view that the show has a lack of infected. They've appeared in more than half the episodes, and those they've not appeared in have been ones that focused on people conflicts.

Quote from: Buddyhunter1 on May 10, 2023, 05:59:19 PMAriich is a freak, or somehow has more hours in the day than everyone else.
Quote from: TAC on December 21, 2023, 06:05:15 AMI be am boner inducing.

The Letter M

#176
Well... that was... intense and interesting. I have no knowledge of the games outside of a slight spoiler I read about TLOU 2's plot.

I wonder how game fans feel about this finale?

This was definitely not what I expected for a finale, but I definitely see what Bella Ramsey means by how it could divide people given how it ended. I'm still trying to wrap my head around what I saw as far as character decisions and choices. Like, I get it, but it's definitely one to ponder upon.

-Marc.

Podaar

Wow. I wasn't sure they could pull off the rest of the story in one episode. I was wrong, so wrong. Mrs. P has gone to bed crying. She's totally wrecked over Joel's choice but is totally on his side...fantastic storytelling.

gmillerdrake

Quote from: Podaar on March 12, 2023, 08:28:36 PM
Wow. I wasn't sure they could pull off the rest of the story in one episode. I was wrong, so wrong. Mrs. P has gone to bed crying. She's totally wrecked over Joel's choice but is totally on his side...fantastic storytelling.

I'm with her! I honestly don't see the problem here. If the Fireflies and the Dr's had something more concrete to go off of I'd see the point of sacrificing Elle. But that was some pretty loose speculation so I'm team Joel for sure.

Great season though! Enjoyed the heck out of it.

faizoff

#179
Amazing finale! That opening scene threw me for a loop with me thinking that it was set in the future with a pregnant Ellie. That lady looked so much like Bella! Honestly it's one of the best zombie related series I've seen and love that they don't focus too much on the zombies. It was a gut wrenching episode though not in the traditional sense. Brutiful ending is what I'd call it.



Edit: Ok so just read that the lady playing the pregnant mom is the actress who played/voiced Ellie in the game, they sounded so similar!

ariich

Quote from: The Letter M on March 12, 2023, 06:52:56 PM
I wonder how game fans feel about this finale?
It was pretty much identical to the game, other than the fact that as you're controlling Joel in the game, there's a lot of extended shootout segments. But I like that they showed that in the episode (and didn't drag it out), and included other references to the game (like how Joel gave Ellie a boost up so she could push a ladder down to him - I laughed out loud at that!).

God this season was so perfect. If anything, showing a bit more of Joel's emotional, caring side throughout the season makes Joel's decision even more impactful and emotionally devastating.

Quote from: Buddyhunter1 on May 10, 2023, 05:59:19 PMAriich is a freak, or somehow has more hours in the day than everyone else.
Quote from: TAC on December 21, 2023, 06:05:15 AMI be am boner inducing.

XJDenton

Quote from: ariich on March 09, 2023, 11:47:53 AMI guess everyone interprets art and media differently, but I always saw TLOU as a post-apocalyptic story about people and societies, rather than actually about the infected. A lot of thought went into them for sure (in the games and the show) but mainly I saw them as the setting rather than the story.

Tbh, this has been a theme for a lot of "zombie apocalypse" media ever since Romero introduced the modern concept of the flesh eating zombie in Night of the Living Dead. The undead in that film are only featured for a comparatively small fraction of the runtime and the rest is character focused conflict. The giants of new zombie media, Romero's Dawn of the Dead and its sequels, The Walking Dead, World War Z, and such like also heavily focus on interpersonal or societal conflict as opposed to the dead and the fight against them being the core of the story.
"I'll be more enthusiastic about encouraging thinking outside the box when there's evidence of any thinking going on inside it."
― Terry Pratchett

ErHaO

Great finale, they executed it very well. And yes, this was very close to the game. It is one of those endings that has led to many discussions over the years and sticks with you.

One thing I really think the series did very well was changing/adding some plotlines to mirror Joel's journey. Especially the conversation between Henry and Joel, where Henry tells the story of his betrayal to save Sam.

Quote from: ariich on March 09, 2023, 11:47:53 AM
Quote from: ErHaO on March 09, 2023, 09:33:19 AM
Quote from: ariich on March 08, 2023, 02:51:55 PM
They covered that change in the official podcast. Basically it's another extension of keeping the show more grounded. They considered the wider plot implications of there being hundreds of infected in the middle of nowhere. The more I think about it, the less it makes sense in the game - not that it bothers me at all, but i can see why they avoided it in the show.

I don't think it was a reason for the change, but the other thing it allowed them to do is focus more on David's manipulative side. In the game, it was chance that they had to fight off infected such that Ellie started to trust him. In the show, it was all him working to win her over.

Yeah, that is fair.

I do respect the decision to keep things more grounded. And in the Winter chapter it makes the most sense. With there being no infected, it gives the people a solid plot reason to keep surviving through the harsh winter as well.

The lack of infected makes for a unique "zombie" show. Actually, it really is more of a post apocalypse show where the infection started the downfall of society.

It keeps the game it's own experience as well, as that is much more of a voilent "against all odds" survival struggle through hordes of humans and infected. In the game's world it is offcourse also much easier to get infected (by breathing in an infectious amount of spores).
Which makes sense for the game, because a game needs enough active participation in the form of action (unless it's something like the Telltale games). I still think the storytelling in the games is phenomenal, but by virtue of being a game it has to sacrifice some realism/groundedness for the sake of gameplay.

I guess everyone interprets art and media differently, but I always saw TLOU as a post-apocalyptic story about people and societies, rather than actually about the infected. A lot of thought went into them for sure (in the games and the show) but mainly I saw them as the setting rather than the story.

And to be honest, I don't even agree with the view that the show has a lack of infected. They've appeared in more than half the episodes, and those they've not appeared in have been ones that focused on people conflicts.

I agree with you (and as for the amount of conflicts of the game I made a similar post a while back, a game like this indeed needs a lot of conflict for gameplay). Having a bit more infected is just a personal preference, I just loved the design of the clickers in the series, I would've liked seeing a bit more later on at some point (delving into the horror elements that the game sometimes has).



Quote from: faizoff on March 12, 2023, 10:09:49 PM
Amazing finale! That opening scene threw me for a loop with me thinking that it was set in the future with a pregnant Ellie. That lady looked so much like Bella! Honestly it's one of the best zombie related series I've seen and love that they don't focus too much on the zombies. It was a gut wrenching episode though not in the traditional sense. Brutiful ending is what I'd call it.



Edit: Ok so just read that the lady playing the pregnant mom is the actress who played/voiced Ellie in the game, they sounded so similar!


She is indeed Ellie in the games. Amazing voice/motion capture actress, good to see her talents translate well to the screen too.

On a sidenote, Troy Baker, Joel in the game, played James in the last episode (David's right hand man).

faizoff

QuoteOn a sidenote, Troy Baker, Joel in the game, played James in the last episode (David's right hand man).


I read that as well, I think there was another video game voice actor that was the right hand for that lady in episode 4 & 5. Glad they got to shine in the series. I'm going to rewatch the series again later, it was so good, not one episode was a dud. I generally liked that they used less zombies and were concentrating more on the survival aspect of things. I don't know about too many details about the games itself and I'm very happy not knowing. Being detached from what to expect has a lot of perks and it's going to be a bitch to try and stay from the 2nd game spoilers as I'm sure that's what will be the bulk of the storylines in season 2 and maybe 3.




XJDenton

Quote from: faizoff on March 13, 2023, 08:46:41 AMI read that as well, I think there was another video game voice actor that was the right hand for that lady in episode 4 & 5.

Jeffrey Pierce, he's Tommy's voice and mocap artist in the game.
"I'll be more enthusiastic about encouraging thinking outside the box when there's evidence of any thinking going on inside it."
― Terry Pratchett

ErHaO

Quote from: faizoff on March 13, 2023, 08:46:41 AM
QuoteOn a sidenote, Troy Baker, Joel in the game, played James in the last episode (David's right hand man).


I read that as well, I think there was another video game voice actor that was the right hand for that lady in episode 4 & 5. Glad they got to shine in the series. I'm going to rewatch the series again later, it was so good, not one episode was a dud. I generally liked that they used less zombies and were concentrating more on the survival aspect of things. I don't know about too many details about the games itself and I'm very happy not knowing. Being detached from what to expect has a lot of perks and it's going to be a bitch to try and stay from the 2nd game spoilers as I'm sure that's what will be the bulk of the storylines in season 2 and maybe 3.

Yeah good luck with that. Thankfully I also think many spoilers won't really land since there are quite a few new major characters in the sequel that you don't have any reference for.

In general I think this series is quite good at introducing new characters that are memorable despite a relavitely short presence.

lonestar

Still trying to wrap my head around the ending, and where it will lead to in the upcoming season. I'd hate to see that bond between Joel and Ellie broken by his actions, but I really don't see any other outcome once she finds out how vastly he lied to her.


Fucking amazing show though, the chemistry between Pascal and Ramsay is unbelievable.

gmillerdrake

Quote from: lonestar on March 13, 2023, 12:37:24 PM
Still trying to wrap my head around the ending, and where it will lead to in the upcoming season. I'd hate to see that bond between Joel and Ellie broken by his actions, but I really don't see any other outcome once she finds out how vastly he lied to her.


Fucking amazing show though, the chemistry between Pascal and Ramsay is unbelievable.

I think she knows that he's lying. She just doesn't want to believe it yet.

ErHaO

Obviously I won't go into pt. 2. But it is interesting to see the same discussions pop up again from 2013. Goes to show they nailed the adaption.

Originally this ending was it though, there was no sequel, so everything was up to interpretation. I believe the sequel got announced in 2016 (and it released in 2020, 7 years after the original).

I was in the camp that we did not need a sequel. Thankfully, I absolutely loved pt 2. It is more controversial amongst fans, so it will be interesting to see discussions in a few years (and how close the adaption will be).

lonestar

Quote from: gmillerdrake on March 13, 2023, 12:42:03 PM
Quote from: lonestar on March 13, 2023, 12:37:24 PM
Still trying to wrap my head around the ending, and where it will lead to in the upcoming season. I'd hate to see that bond between Joel and Ellie broken by his actions, but I really don't see any other outcome once she finds out how vastly he lied to her.


Fucking amazing show though, the chemistry between Pascal and Ramsay is unbelievable.

I think she knows that he's lying. She just doesn't want to believe it yet.

In the post show bits, Bella said as much, that her character forced herself to believe it cause Joel is literally all she has.

ariich

In that post-show Inside the Episode, when they replayed the moment where she says "Time heals all wounds" and he says "It wasn't time that did it" and the way she looks at him, god it hit me right in the feels.

Quote from: Buddyhunter1 on May 10, 2023, 05:59:19 PMAriich is a freak, or somehow has more hours in the day than everyone else.
Quote from: TAC on December 21, 2023, 06:05:15 AMI be am boner inducing.

lonestar

Quote from: ariich on March 13, 2023, 02:06:19 PM
In that post-show Inside the Episode, when they replayed the moment where she says "Time heals all wounds" and he says "It wasn't time that did it" and the way she looks at him, god it hit me right in the feels.

Yup...I caught that too... :'( :'( :'(

The Letter M

Quote from: lonestar on March 13, 2023, 04:05:04 PM
Quote from: ariich on March 13, 2023, 02:06:19 PM
In that post-show Inside the Episode, when they replayed the moment where she says "Time heals all wounds" and he says "It wasn't time that did it" and the way she looks at him, god it hit me right in the feels.

Yup...I caught that too... :'( :'( :'(

Spoiler in this tweet, but related to this moment, so don't open it if you haven't seen the episode yet!
https://twitter.com/frnkiemorales/status/1635098354928750592?t=udp81-lVCayKR1fPxfbwMw&s=19

-Marc.

gmillerdrake

Quote from: lonestar on March 13, 2023, 01:28:25 PM
Quote from: gmillerdrake on March 13, 2023, 12:42:03 PM
Quote from: lonestar on March 13, 2023, 12:37:24 PM
Still trying to wrap my head around the ending, and where it will lead to in the upcoming season. I'd hate to see that bond between Joel and Ellie broken by his actions, but I really don't see any other outcome once she finds out how vastly he lied to her.


Fucking amazing show though, the chemistry between Pascal and Ramsay is unbelievable.

I think she knows that he's lying. She just doesn't want to believe it yet.

In the post show bits, Bella said as much, that her character forced herself to believe it cause Joel is literally all she has.

And the amazing thing she did was 'tell' the audience that very thing simply with her eyes and the emotion behind them. Was a great season ending scene

XJDenton

Quote from: ariich on March 13, 2023, 02:06:19 PM
In that post-show Inside the Episode, when they replayed the moment where she says "Time heals all wounds" and he says "It wasn't time that did it" and the way she looks at him, god it hit me right in the feels.

"It wasn't time that did it. It was sage."
"I'll be more enthusiastic about encouraging thinking outside the box when there's evidence of any thinking going on inside it."
― Terry Pratchett

faizoff

Another aspect of that hospital shootout I really enjoyed was the fact that Joel had to keep switching guns as they got out of ammo, it's something you don't often see. It's there in almost every game as you don't get unlimited ammo. Made that whole scene so much more tense.

lonestar


XJDenton

I sense a new meme template becoming popular.
"I'll be more enthusiastic about encouraging thinking outside the box when there's evidence of any thinking going on inside it."
― Terry Pratchett

lonestar

It's definitely gaining traction.