The Last of Us (HBO)

[cramx3]

Tonight's episode left me absolutely speechless. Just outstanding.

Outstandingly boring. Most of the episode was pointless. Is Bill even in the game?

I wouldn't go that far, but I wonder what the point of so much time spent on this story just for both of them to be dead. (maybe game players understand this more than I do?)   It was certainly an emotional story and they portrayed it fairly well, I just don't understand the why.  I ended up feeling a bit bored with the episode myself mostly because I thought the side story dragged a bit and when you realized they both took the meds it just made me wonder, why should I be emotionally invested in this now like I was 5 minutes earlier?

For me, it just stressed the value of saving one life. In the beginning we have the mass killing of people for apparently no real reason, just a mass wasting of life out of fear. Then we have the saving of one life pretty much on a whim, which turns out to be an absolute godsend to a man who was constantly isolated and angry, which he stresses in his note to Joel, who is in process of saving one life, Ellie's. I think it's going to pave the way from Ellie being a burden to her being so much more to Joel, to being a daughter figure.

and then they both die?  I'm sure it's a parallel and the story does shed some light on life of someone on their own in this world. Maybe the story of this episode has pay offs down the road.  I hope so.

Exactly. They started building Bill as a badass, and then it turns into a neverending love story, and then they die. I would have liked to see more of Bill, and surviving the infected. The episode dragged so much and for characters we will probably never see again. It's like that episode of Lost where they devote an entire episode to side characters we hardly saw, just to kill them off.

And old Frank looked like Jordan Peterson. I thought that was funny.

Bill was a badass and I agree, showing more of him and his survival might have been cool, but also, if the end is just him dead, I'm a bit lost as to the why show it.  I've got to think this story will play a role somehow beyond just supplying them with goods left behind.

[Zook]

Tonight's episode left me absolutely speechless. Just outstanding.

Outstandingly boring. Most of the episode was pointless. Is Bill even in the game?

I wouldn't go that far, but I wonder what the point of so much time spent on this story just for both of them to be dead. (maybe game players understand this more than I do?)   It was certainly an emotional story and they portrayed it fairly well, I just don't understand the why.  I ended up feeling a bit bored with the episode myself mostly because I thought the side story dragged a bit and when you realized they both took the meds it just made me wonder, why should I be emotionally invested in this now like I was 5 minutes earlier?

For me, it just stressed the value of saving one life. In the beginning we have the mass killing of people for apparently no real reason, just a mass wasting of life out of fear. Then we have the saving of one life pretty much on a whim, which turns out to be an absolute godsend to a man who was constantly isolated and angry, which he stresses in his note to Joel, who is in process of saving one life, Ellie's. I think it's going to pave the way from Ellie being a burden to her being so much more to Joel, to being a daughter figure.

and then they both die?  I'm sure it's a parallel and the story does shed some light on life of someone on their own in this world. Maybe the story of this episode has pay offs down the road.  I hope so.

Exactly. They started building Bill as a badass, and then it turns into a neverending love story, and then they die. I would have liked to see more of Bill, and surviving the infected. The episode dragged so much and for characters we will probably never see again. It's like that episode of Lost where they devote an entire episode to side characters we hardly saw, just to kill them off.

And old Frank looked like Jordan Peterson. I thought that was funny.

Bill was a badass and I agree, showing more of him and his survival might have been cool, but also, if the end is just him dead, I'm a bit lost as to the why show it.  I've got to think this story will play a role somehow beyond just supplying them with goods left behind.

Like, he lied to Frank and didn't take the meds, and he's still out there, and he'll randomly show up later for a deus ex Machina save? That's something the writers of The Walking Dead would do. It doesn't make sense, but fans liked the character so we won't show that he actually died so we can bring him back. "Don't open the door, Joel. I don't want you to know I'm actually not in there... For some reason. They always said I was dramatic."

[ariich]

Bill was a badass and I agree, showing more of him and his survival might have been cool, but also, if the end is just him dead, I'm a bit lost as to the why show it.

Not sure I understand. Why show any story? We're all dead in the end.

This episode started with Joel still pretty closed off and sceptical about the value of saving one life. It then shows the journey that Bill went on with Frank, and how he came to feel differently over time, leading to him opening up to Joel in his letter about it. Regardless of what happens in the plot itself, it's absolutely relevant to the emotional journey that Joel and Ellie are on.

[lonestar]

Bill was a badass and I agree, showing more of him and his survival might have been cool, but also, if the end is just him dead, I'm a bit lost as to the why show it.

Not sure I understand. Why show any story? We're all dead in the end.

This episode started with Joel still pretty closed off and sceptical about the value of saving one life. It then shows the journey that Bill went on with Frank, and how he came to feel differently over time, leading to him opening up to Joel in his letter about it. Regardless of what happens in the plot itself, it's absolutely relevant to the emotional journey that Joel and Ellie are on.

That's how I saw it... Bill stated as much in his letter to Joel

[cramx3]

Bill was a badass and I agree, showing more of him and his survival might have been cool, but also, if the end is just him dead, I'm a bit lost as to the why show it.

Not sure I understand. Why show any story? We're all dead in the end.

This episode started with Joel still pretty closed off and sceptical about the value of saving one life. It then shows the journey that Bill went on with Frank, and how he came to feel differently over time, leading to him opening up to Joel in his letter about it. Regardless of what happens in the plot itself, it's absolutely relevant to the emotional journey that Joel and Ellie are on.

Because it was 40 minutes of an hour episode (rough estimation) with no investment on these two guys.  Everyone seems to be saying (including my gf) that it was so sad and so emotional, but I just sit back and say, but yeah it is but still why should I care? The guy is gone before I even got to know him.  What significance does his personal story really have on Joel?  I think lonestar may have been right about a parallel to his own journey.  Fair enough, but it doesn't mean that in the end, I care about Bill and Frank.  I think my bigger point really is, the before and after the love story were more interesting to me.  The scene in the conviencene store, the scene of the skeletons in the ditch and the ending when they get to the house.  I feel the love story could have been cut a bit and got to the point without feeling like it's dragging on.

[lonestar]

But, for me at least, it didn't drag on. I think it's really important to show that beauty can exist even in the worst of times and places... The scene with the strawberries, so simple, yet totally worth the few moments it took because it showed the value of what love can bring back to such a dark world.

[ThatOneGuy2112]

.

[lonestar]

I thought the purpose of Bill and Frank's story was obvious. Showing the mundane can be just as powerful as the spectacular, and it showed two lovers spending their time in this apocalypse being genuinely alive, as opposed to Joel who has only been surviving. I also don't think every single event portrayed needs to have a grander purpose in the narrative, because that's not how reality works anyways. Joel is our protagonist, but he isnt the single most important person in the world. Showing us a side character's story like this helps drive home the fact that there are other people with deep, enriching lives all their own that are worth acknowledging.

And in turn, enriches the viewing experience. It makes the world so much richer, so much more.

Thanks for that man.

[XJDenton]

That episode was sublime. Talk about elevating the source material.

I really don't understand how anyone could view that as pointless: it gave us a poignant and heartfelt short story about how you can find the best of yourself and others even when the world has gone to hell, and paralleled the main protagonist's journey while doing so.

[lonestar]

That episode was sublime. Talk about elevating the source material.

I really don't understand how anyone could view that as pointless: it gave us a poignant and heartfelt short story about how you can find the best of yourself and others even when the world has gone to hell, and paralleled the main protagonist's journey while doing so.

I still go back to the bit with the strawberries...of all the heartfelt moments in this one, that was the one that really choked me up...first the Gift of the Magi moment when he admits to trading in his gun for the seeds (one of the small ones  ), then the bliss of tasting the strawberry (I know that face all too well) and the passion taking them over to the point where they almost crush said strawberries. It's such a simple thing we all take so much for granted, and it really drove home how fragile and precious so much of what we treasure in life is.

[XJDenton]

Indeed. This entire episode was just a lovely little slice of humanity.

[Zantera]

Fantastic episode.

[The Realm]

Just a brilliant episode. Murray Bartlett (Frank) is a star. After his Emmy winning performance in The White Lotus season 1, he goes and knocks this out of the park.

My wife isn't even watching the show but she was pottering around the house while it was on and she just got drawn into it and by end of the episode was on the couch next to me with tears in her eyes.

[cramx3]

Murray Bartlett (Frank) is a star. After his Emmy winning performance in The White Lotus season 1, he goes and knocks this out of the park.

Ahhh, I knew he looked familiar but couldn't figure out from where.  Another HBO actor.  And while I may have found the episode a bit boring as it dragged on, the acting from the two guys was fantastic.

[gmillerdrake]

Question: Were these two characters together/lovers in the game?

[XJDenton]

It was never 100% explicit, but pretty heavily implied. But their story does not end well.

[gmillerdrake]

It was never 100% explicit, but pretty heavily implied. But their story does not end well.

Just curious being I’m watching with no reference. Wondering how closely adapted the show is vs the game.

I’m digging the show big time. It’s all done very well….across all aspects

[lonestar]

Talked with my kid this morning, and she's watching it while playing the game for the first time. It'll be interesting to hear her take on it.

[DTwwbwMP]

Good ep, but the whole gay thing seemed very forced! Was it needed?

[XJDenton]

It's fiction. Literally every plot point is "forced".

[ariich]

Good ep, but the whole gay thing seemed very forced! Was it needed?

Are heterosexual love stories needed?

[Lynxo]

Good ep, but the whole gay thing seemed very forced! Was it needed?

Are heterosexual love stories needed?

Exactly. If they were of opposite genders, would you still have called it forced?

I agree with most of the sentiments - especially about the strawberries scene. But the scene that got me was them getting married - especially considering same sex marriage was illegal in that state at the time of the outbreak. So neither of these two probably thought they would ever get married. It takes a zombie apocalypse for them to be able to finally be given the exact same rights as everybody else.

Man, I'm getting teared up just thinking about it.  If I can handle it, I'm gonna watch that episode again.

[lonestar]

Good ep, but the whole gay thing seemed very forced! Was it needed?

The gay thing? 

[gmillerdrake]

When did Bill leave the note on the table? I'll need to re-watch to see if it was already on the table when they were having their last meal....but seemed like he wasn't coming back out and about after they went to bed.

And....I've watched far too many post apocalyptic shows/movies because the entire time Frank was in the home when they first met I just kept thinking at any moment he was going to turn on Bill and either kill him or just rob him blind and leave him for dead. This was a much better version of meeting a random stranger in the aftermath of society collapsing.

[lonestar]

And....I've watched far too many post apocalyptic shows/movies because the entire time Frank was in the home when they first met I just kept thinking at any moment he was going to turn on Bill and either kill him or just rob him blind and leave him for dead. This was a much better version of meeting a random stranger in the aftermath of society collapsing.

Seriously 

[Podaar]

It's going to be difficult to top that episode. Joel and Ellie have a very long row-to-hoe if their story is going to provide the same level of emotional impact. The ladder for Frank, the first meal, Bill's rendition of Long, Long Time, Franks' gift of the Strawberries...oh man, what an episode. There were so many subtle details in the episode that really added to it. I loved how outside of the house and compound start out so white and idyllic, but 14 years later everything has faded to grey/yellow and peeling paint, rust is everywhere, but still tidy. Inside the house everything starts nice and tidy but impersonal, yet by the end there are different paintings of Bill hanging everywhere, more flower pots, books laying on end tables, light streaming in through open windows. I thought it very effective.

[lonestar]

Very good point about the house... By the end it looks thoroughly live in, it looks loved

[faizoff]

And....I've watched far too many post apocalyptic shows/movies because the entire time Frank was in the home when they first met I just kept thinking at any moment he was going to turn on Bill and either kill him or just rob him blind and leave him for dead. This was a much better version of meeting a random stranger in the aftermath of society collapsing.

I was expecting that too, been conditioned to think something terrible is going to happen at such moments by shows like Walking Dead. I think this show has handled those moments really well. Several examples of really not giving in to very obvious turn of events like the scene in ep 2 where the clicker just comes by calmly and fungal kisses Anna Torv instead of violently attacking like we always see. Then Bella going into the pit and waiting to be surprise attacked but that doesn't happen. There are so many more like these that really keeps the show interesting and engaging for me.

[gmillerdrake]

And....I've watched far too many post apocalyptic shows/movies because the entire time Frank was in the home when they first met I just kept thinking at any moment he was going to turn on Bill and either kill him or just rob him blind and leave him for dead. This was a much better version of meeting a random stranger in the aftermath of society collapsing.

I was expecting that too, been conditioned to think something terrible is going to happen at such moments by shows like Walking Dead. I think this show has handled those moments really well. Several examples of really not giving in to very obvious turn of events like the scene in ep 2 where the clicker just comes by calmly and fungal kisses Anna Torv instead of violently attacking like we always see. Then Bella going into the pit and waiting to be surprise attacked but that doesn't happen. There are so many more like these that really keeps the show interesting and engaging for me.

Yep.....agree with all that. They're doing a really good job of still providing angst and suspense without then resorting to some sort of 'brutal'....zombie cliche style attack or scene.

[MrBoom_shack-a-lack]

Such a beautiful episode. Was he gay or just someone really lonely looking for company, it really dosen't matter. He found a purpose in his life and I thought that was very touching, especially how it ended.

Btw I never played the game but it's the only game i've ever watched a whole playthrough off. The game comes finally out on PC in march after 9 years. Oh how I hate exclusive titles.

[HOF]

Haven’t watched The Last of Us, but this was pretty funny:

https://twitter.com/nbcsnl/status/1622127831668097024?s=46&t=naTWucJy6Py1cA4L2sOjTg

[ErHaO]

Just watched the first three episodes. I won't spoil game stuff, though it seems the show will have some surprises for the gaming crowd as well.

I think it is great thus far. Visually spot on, from coloring to the environments. The first two episodes were very close to the game, with some omissions and additions here and there. The third episode did something different and also took a narrative risk (taking a whole episodes for two non-lead characters). For me it worked, it for sure touched me.

For me the letter at the end tied it together thematically, in drawing a comparison between Joel and Bill. In both Uncharted (4) and The Last of Us games (1/2) the writers use storylines that parralel the protagonists journey  (usually told through letters, more as an optional thing in the games). Here they used an entire episode for that approach. It is a bit unconventional and halfway the episode I did wonder what this was leading to, but for me it paid off due to the excellent excecution.

For those interested in playing the game, the Bill section is very different in many ways. I was looking forward to Ellie and Bill banter, but can't complain about what they did here.

Ellie and Joel still have quite the (intense) journey ahead of them, asssuming it will follow the game mostly.

[lonestar]

Another solid episode, though this one seemed a bit transitional in nature, with something seriously big happening in the next. I think the biggest take from this one is the real deepening of Joel and Ellie's relationship, they're definitely bonding, and Ellie's quirky nature is starting to worm through the chinks in Joel's armor.


And please let them continue the puns...that last bit had me in fucking stitches.

[faizoff]

The puns were right up my alley as a dad lol. Fantastic chemistry between the two. Love seeing more of the world and some challenges you'd face like the gas going bad, Joel not getting angry with Ellie for lying about the gun. so many great moments. At least next episode is airing on Friday instead of Sunday, so will be a shorter wait.

[lonestar]

The puns were right up my alley as a dad lol. Fantastic chemistry between the two. Love seeing more of the world and some challenges you'd face like the gas going bad, Joel not getting angry with Ellie for lying about the gun. so many great moments. At least next episode is airing on Friday instead of Sunday, so will be a shorter wait.

But it'll be a longer wait after...let's hope they don't pull a mini-cliffhanger...