Top Of The World Tour 2023

[crystalstars17]

Similarly, if the actor playing Erik, for instance, gives even two or three performances as terrible as many of James' has been recently, that dude gets axed and replaced. People don't go see a shoddy vocal Phantom performance out of their undying love for that actor.

Agreeing to disagree with your (and others') take on this, I respect it fully as a differing POV and this has been an interesting conversation. But I do need to tell you that with your mention of "Erik" and "James" in the same sentence, now all I can think of is James playing the Phantom 🔥 (sorry, lol, this is just how my brain works). ✨ Congratulations, you've given me my happy thought for the day.

[Stadler]

I've finally caught up on how this conversation has progressed, and with great interest, and, wow! Most here do really prefer shows that are unpolished. I'm trying but I still can't get my head around it. I realize I'm in the vast minority here, but I'm actually mildly annoyed by those moments in shows that are as wild and untamed as some of the moments described about other bands. I wouldn't pay good money to see a band member drunk, or making unforgiveable mistakes that make the music sound like noise instead of music. I mean yeah, even when my beloved James is talking too much onstage or practically choking on his gum (may heaven forbid), I'm sitting there rolling my eyes, like, on with it already, lol. I bought a ticket to see the best moments my favorite band can bring, and I expect it to be polished. This is extremely high level music, not a garage band by any stretch, these are virtuoso musicians with classical training and, at least in my mind, I expect an extremely high level of polish. To me, that's true professionalism. So I have absolutely no problems with a planned and pristine show. 

I don't know; I see those moments happening less and less the more the show is pre-planned.  That's not BAD: plays and operas are pre-planned and they are - or can be - wildly entertaining (Hamilton).   

I can kinda see where some fans may view those "unplanned" moments as somewhat endearing and memorable. But I do appreciate them being kept to a minimum in favor of the polished performance that I described above. But you mentioned "plays and operas" and, that's actually the background I'm coming from. And I know for a fact that those singers, for all the planning and polishing, are singing. So consider the source I guess, these are just the snooty ramblings of a musical theater snob (Sorry not sorry). 

I get that. I disagree with it, but I get it. However, I'm sure you'll agree that different genres are held to different standards and expectations. If I go see Phantom of the Opera, or La Boheme, I'm not really going to see those specific performers or cast, I'm going to hear/see the piece and those people are merely the temporary people performing it.

Similarly, if the actor playing Erik, for instance, gives even two or three performances as terrible as many of James' has been recently, that dude gets axed and replaced. People don't go see a shoddy vocal Phantom performance out of their undying love for that actor.

So if DT were holding themselves to the standards of a play/musical/opera, James would have been kicked out and replaced years ago, because it would be all about the music and not the individuals. However, that's not their standard, and it's clearly not anyone else' standard. So people are going to expect what they do and be happy or upset with what they are.

But this also speaks to how you can't please everyone.  Motley Crue (I said I wasn't going to MENTION them!) are certainly doing their part to make sure those that want a more polished show get it.  Maybe Kiss, too.  Fair enough.  Every band has their sort of angle on that; apparently none of you have ever seen the Dead!  "Ramshackle" is, on some nights, being kind.  Zeppelin too.  For those that want something more... consistent, there's always Pink Floyd.

[Adami]

Similarly, if the actor playing Erik, for instance, gives even two or three performances as terrible as many of James' has been recently, that dude gets axed and replaced. People don't go see a shoddy vocal Phantom performance out of their undying love for that actor.

Agreeing to disagree with your (and others') take on this, I respect it fully as a differing POV and this has been an interesting conversation. But I do need to tell you that with your mention of "Erik" and "James" in the same sentence, now all I can think of is James playing the Phantom 🔥 (sorry, lol, this is just how my brain works). ✨ Congratulations, you've given me my happy thought for the day.

I'm not sure you can disagree with my take. Unless you have evidence of Broadway plays keeping around singers doing awful jobs out of dedication to that singer.

But I'd actually love to hear James 20 years ago doing Phantom. That would be cool.

[WilliamMunny]

Similarly, if the actor playing Erik, for instance, gives even two or three performances as terrible as many of James' has been recently, that dude gets axed and replaced. People don't go see a shoddy vocal Phantom performance out of their undying love for that actor.

Agreeing to disagree with your (and others') take on this, I respect it fully as a differing POV and this has been an interesting conversation. But I do need to tell you that with your mention of "Erik" and "James" in the same sentence, now all I can think of is James playing the Phantom 🔥 (sorry, lol, this is just how my brain works). ✨ Congratulations, you've given me my happy thought for the day.

I'm not sure you can disagree with my take. Unless you have evidence of Broadway plays keeping around singers doing awful jobs out of dedication to that singer.

But I'd actually love to hear James 20 years ago doing Phantom. That would be cool.

To add another element to this, Adami, can you imagine a broadway lead being allowed to dramatically change the vocal melodies to key numbers in Phantom?

[Adami]

So it seems the standard for many fans is that they want the instrumental music to be perfect, polished, pristine, and exactly like the album, and then James can do whatever.

I guess, in the end, I don't really care. I haven't seen DT live in over a decade because their live shows simply don't speak to me anymore. So as long as the fans going are having a good time and getting what they want, that's all that matters. James doing well or poorly doesn't impact me or my desire to see them.

[WilliamMunny]

So it seems the standard for many fans is that they want the instrumental music to be perfect, polished, pristine, and exactly like the album, and then James can do whatever.

Perhaps you aren't referring to me, but in case you are, I was in agreement with your post regarding Broadway singers (my point is, JLB as he currently performs would not make it on Broadway).

I also feel like the consensus is either split or the opposite, as many of us JLB supporters have begun to throw in the towel.

[Adami]

So it seems the standard for many fans is that they want the instrumental music to be perfect, polished, pristine, and exactly like the album, and then James can do whatever.

Perhaps you aren't referring to me, but in case you are, I was in agreement with your post regarding Broadway singers (my point is, JLB as he currently performs would not make it on Broadway).

I also feel like the consensus is either split or the opposite, as many of us JLB supporters have begun to throw in the towel.

Oh yea, not referring to you.

And while people here may be vocal about JLB, their concert attendance seems fine and the people going seem quite happy with how the shows are.

[gzarruk]

The TOTW Tour has officially come to an end, since they already played the show in Indonesia. I hope we get some sort of live release from this tour, even if it comes through the LNFA, though they're taking a lot more "free" months with those lately.

I also hope they replace all the non AVFTTOTW songs from the setlist with a fresh new set for the DreamSonic tour.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

So it seems the standard for many fans is that they want the instrumental music to be perfect, polished, pristine, and exactly like the album, and then James can do whatever.

Perhaps you aren't referring to me, but in case you are, I was in agreement with your post regarding Broadway singers (my point is, JLB as he currently performs would not make it on Broadway).

I also feel like the consensus is either split or the opposite, as many of us JLB supporters have begun to throw in the towel.

100% accurate and I would add that what we're experiencing now wouldn't be accepted on nearly any stage in ANY genre: this is a peculiarity of the genre and more to the point of the circumstances of the band. 

A person who cannot execute vocal lines consistently each and every night would not be hired even as a back up singer to a pop, country, or blues act. The music business is just that: a business where staff tend to be retained or let go based on performance. As you allude, there is no chance in hell a Broadway performance would make such a person the focal point of the show and then try to charge customers $300 a ticket. We might as well just ignore any comparison to classical music because one or two lousy shows would be enough to get you canned at the Met (not that you would even get in the door). That is an entity that exists to showcase the best in the world. The idea that they'd be exempt from executing the notes of something as difficult as Pull Me Under because it's 'too difficult' at age 60 is insane. Yes, we do notice some of the opera stars fall a little with age, but overall the standard they're being held to is so high compared to the vocalist of DT.

What we have here is a matter of loyalty. The band is able to provide this loyalty because they are so established and probably nearing the end. Furthermore, every other aspect of the musical production is holding up perfectly. This is a very unique situation within the broader industry. Bands like DT or Motley can do this, but most cannot afford to have their lead singer go out there and vastly underperform every night and just pretend like there is nothing wrong, if they want to sell tickets.

[crystalstars17]

I'm not sure you can disagree with my take. Unless you have evidence of Broadway plays keeping around singers doing awful jobs out of dedication to that singer.

Oh absolutely, I do agree about the Broadway thing. What  I was disagreeing about was the fact that, by the way you worded it, you prefer a less-planned show for a rock band. As you said, "I disagree with it, but I get it".

This also doesn't mean that my "loyalty" to James means he can get away with just anything, though. I've expounded elsewhere about how he might address his vocal problems.

[crystalstars17]

The TOTW Tour has officially come to an end, since they already played the show in Indonesia. I hope we get some sort of live release from this tour, even if it comes through the LNFA, though they're taking a lot more "free" months with those lately.

I also hope they replace all the non AVFTTOTW songs from the setlist with a fresh new set for the DreamSonic tour.

I'm hoping for a live release, too.

I also hope that they change up the setlist, but keep Answering the Call for the US audiences.

[cramx3]

I've finally caught up on how this conversation has progressed, and with great interest, and, wow! Most here do really prefer shows that are unpolished. I'm trying but I still can't get my head around it. I realize I'm in the vast minority here, but I'm actually mildly annoyed by those moments in shows that are as wild and untamed as some of the moments described about other bands. I wouldn't pay good money to see a band member drunk, or making unforgiveable mistakes that make the music sound like noise instead of music. I mean yeah, even when my beloved James is talking too much onstage or practically choking on his gum (may heaven forbid), I'm sitting there rolling my eyes, like, on with it already, lol. I bought a ticket to see the best moments my favorite band can bring, and I expect it to be polished. This is extremely high level music, not a garage band by any stretch, these are virtuoso musicians with classical training and, at least in my mind, I expect an extremely high level of polish. To me, that's true professionalism. So I have absolutely no problems with a planned and pristine show. 

I don't think you are alone in wanted to see a perfect and polished show. In fact, I'd say that's why seeing DT is so impressive because of how amazing and spot on the band really is on playing the crazy complicated music.  For me, we have the album for the perfect product of music.  I do expect a great execution of the music live too, but it doesn't need to be perfect and a lot of times those imperfections are what make your show unique and makes it feel more real and personal. 

Having said this, Haken last night were so spectacular live.  Sounded basically perfect to me and were 100% live. But they did have a drum issue in the first song and because of it, they replayed the ending twice  I wish I caught it on video, because moments like that are what I thrive for in a show.  Shit happens, such is life, but the way we respond to it shows our character sometimes. 

[Adami]

I'm not sure you can disagree with my take. Unless you have evidence of Broadway plays keeping around singers doing awful jobs out of dedication to that singer.

Oh absolutely, I do agree about the Broadway thing. What  I was disagreeing about was the fact that, by the way you worded it, you prefer a less-planned show for a rock band. As you said, "I disagree with it, but I get it".

This also doesn't mean that my "loyalty" to James means he can get away with just anything, though. I've expounded elsewhere about how he might address his vocal problems.

Ohhh gotcha. Makes sense!

Regarding your "loyalty" to James. I mean, I know you'd like him to improve, but if he doesn't.....would you stop supporting him and the band?

[crystalstars17]

I don't think you are alone in wanted to see a perfect and polished show. In fact, I'd say that's why seeing DT is so impressive because of how amazing and spot on the band really is on playing the crazy complicated music.  For me, we have the album for the perfect product of music.  I do expect a great execution of the music live too, but it doesn't need to be perfect and a lot of times those imperfections are what make your show unique and makes it feel more real and personal. 

Having said this, Haken last night were so spectacular live.  Sounded basically perfect to me and were 100% live. But they did have a drum issue in the first song and because of it, they replayed the ending twice  I wish I caught it on video, because moments like that are what I thrive for in a show.  Shit happens, such is life, but the way we respond to it shows our character sometimes.

I like this, I get what you're saying. Great post! 😎

[crystalstars17]

Regarding your "loyalty" to James. I mean, I know you'd like him to improve, but if he doesn't.....would you stop supporting him and the band?

I would not. I truly do want what's best for him and his voice, but at that point, I think I would have to reach the place that some here have come to, a sort of "understanding" that this is just the way it is. Ultimately, it is his choice whether or not to improve, and not one of us can affect that. But it would not change my love for the band. This is some of my favorite music on earth, and nothing will change that.

[Adami]

Regarding your "loyalty" to James. I mean, I know you'd like him to improve, but if he doesn't.....would you stop supporting him and the band?

I would not. I truly do want what's best for him and his voice, but at that point, I think I would have to reach the place that some here have come to, a sort of "understanding" that this is just the way it is. Ultimately, it is his choice whether or not to improve, and not one of us can affect that. But it would not change my love for the band. This is some of my favorite music on earth, and nothing will change that.

I gotcha. I respect that, and it’s what I meant when I say he can get away with whatever. It makes no difference if he improves or even gets worse. You’re still supporting him because of your loyalty to him and the band. I get that. But it also offers no insensitive to the band to do anything to improve.

[Architeuthis]

I also hope they replace all the non AVFTTOTW songs from the setlist with a fresh new set for the DreamSonic tour.

I have my doubts about that.  They're likely in a comfort zone with the songs they are warmed up on right now. It's a pretty short time to put a dramatic change to the setlist. They are more than capable of that, but It might be a lot of pressure considering how soon Dreamsonic kicks off.
It would be cool to have a couple of light hearted fun type songs in the setlist though. Viper King comes to mind for sure!   

[gborland]

The best DT shows I've ever seen were the ones where there was spontaneity, unpredictability, raw energy and excitement.

The worst DT shows I've seen have been the ones where I may as well have just stayed home and listened to the CD.

[crystalstars17]

I gotcha. I respect that, and it’s what I meant when I say he can get away with whatever.

Well, not really? It's disappointing to hear yet another less-than stellar performance full of vocal faux pas. And I hurt for him whenever I read all those nasty comments.

But it also offers no insensitive to the band to do anything to improve.

In a way, aren't those negative reviews enough to make him want to get back on top of his game? If that doesn't even do it, then we can assume that truly it is his choice.

[Adami]

I gotcha. I respect that, and it’s what I meant when I say he can get away with whatever.

Well, not really? It's disappointing to hear yet another less-than stellar performance full of vocal faux pas. And I hurt for him whenever I read all those nasty comments.

But it also offers no insensitive to the band to do anything to improve.

In a way, aren't those negative reviews enough to make him want to get back on top of his game? If that doesn't even do it, then we can assume that truly it is his choice.

But how is that not him getting away with it? You're still financially supporting him, no matter what he does.

If I had a job and whether I did a great job or an awful job, I still got paid the same but maybe other employees silently were disappointed, I'd say I could get away with whatever. You know?

[Stadler]

I've been thinking about this and - and I think I alluded to this - I think the play/Broadway references are misguided.  This ISN'T Broadway.    "Hamilton" is "Hamilton" because it's "HAMILTON", not necessarily because of, say, Christopher Jackson, no matter how fucking amazing that guy is/was in that role.  There WILL, 100%, be "Hamilton's" without him, just as there are Jesus Christ Superstar's without Ted and Ian. 

This is different, I think.   

[Adami]

I've been thinking about this and - and I think I alluded to this - I think the play/Broadway references are misguided.  This ISN'T Broadway.    "Hamilton" is "Hamilton" because it's "HAMILTON", not necessarily because of, say, Christopher Jackson, no matter how fucking amazing that guy is/was in that role.  There WILL, 100%, be "Hamilton's" without him, just as there are Jesus Christ Superstar's without Ted and Ian. 

This is different, I think.

Christopher Jackson was so damn good.

[Stadler]

I've been thinking about this and - and I think I alluded to this - I think the play/Broadway references are misguided.  This ISN'T Broadway.    "Hamilton" is "Hamilton" because it's "HAMILTON", not necessarily because of, say, Christopher Jackson, no matter how fucking amazing that guy is/was in that role.  There WILL, 100%, be "Hamilton's" without him, just as there are Jesus Christ Superstar's without Ted and Ian. 

This is different, I think.

Christopher Jackson was so damn good.

Word on that.

[Adami]

Christopher Jackson to replace James? Hmmm. That’s an interesting idea you have.

[crystalstars17]

But how is that not him getting away with it? You're still financially supporting him, no matter what he does.

If I had a job and whether I did a great job or an awful job, I still got paid the same but maybe other employees silently were disappointed, I'd say I could get away with whatever. You know?

I understand what you mean, but are you suggesting a boycott, then? That we as fans simply vote with our wallets, so to speak, just stop buying tickets, in the hopes that would induce the band to provide him with an (admittedly much-needed) intervention?

I still love the band and their music as a whole package, so I will continue to support them, yes. Whatever they allow him to get away with, if they choose not to intervene and allow it, then that's kinda on them.

But I agree it leaves us in a sticky position. What can you do in that case except decide to still see your favorites, despite, or not. My choice is the former, because I enjoy these shows. I wasn't there in 1992, I have only as of yet seen them a handful of times by comparison with many here, and I'm personally gonna enjoy it as long as I can. I can respect that it may be a different decision for those who have been there since the beginning.

[crystalstars17]

I've been thinking about this and - and I think I alluded to this - I think the play/Broadway references are misguided.  This ISN'T Broadway.    "Hamilton" is "Hamilton" because it's "HAMILTON", not necessarily because of, say, Christopher Jackson, no matter how fucking amazing that guy is/was in that role.  There WILL, 100%, be "Hamilton's" without him, just as there are Jesus Christ Superstar's without Ted and Ian. 

This is different, I think.

It is different in this regard, yes, because (at least IMO) there wouldn't be DT without James. While I would love to go back in time and see Phantom with Michael Crawford, it's still Phantom and I've seen it many times with others singing the role. But I wouldn't want to see someone else trying to fill James' shoes. Because, put succinctly, no one can.

[Adami]

But how is that not him getting away with it? You're still financially supporting him, no matter what he does.

If I had a job and whether I did a great job or an awful job, I still got paid the same but maybe other employees silently were disappointed, I'd say I could get away with whatever. You know?

I understand what you mean, but are you suggesting a boycott, then? That we as fans simply vote with our wallets, so to speak, just stop buying tickets, in the hopes that would induce the band to provide him with an (admittedly much-needed) intervention?

I still love the band and their music as a whole package, so I will continue to support them, yes. Whatever they allow him to get away with, if they choose not to intervene and allow it, then that's kinda on them.

But I agree it leaves us in a sticky position. What can you do in that case except decide to still see your favorites, despite, or not. My choice is the former, because I enjoy these shows. I wasn't there in 1992, I have only as of yet seen them a handful of times by comparison with many here, and I'm personally gonna enjoy it as long as I can. I can respect that it may be a different decision for those who have been there since the beginning.

I'm not suggesting anyone do anything other than what they want. You want to support the band no matter what? Have at it. I want to not support the band because I don't connect with them anymore? Cool too.

I was just pointing out the situation as it is. I obviously want everyone to be happy and do whatever they feel is best.

Except Stadler.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

I still support the band financially because I think there is something special about their music. I have never liked the vocal but have learned to live with it. It's been a particularly tough stretch the last 2 tours, but if I made it this long what's another couple years? All comes down to whether you're really listening to DT for the vocal or not and a lot of us either have never cared for it or have come to expect this. Those who just cannot stand it dropped off the wagon.

[crystalstars17]

I'm not suggesting anyone do anything other than what they want. You want to support the band no matter what? Have at it. I want to not support the band because I don't connect with them anymore? Cool too.

I was just pointing out the situation as it is. I obviously want everyone to be happy and do whatever they feel is best.

Of course. 🙂

[Stadler]

But how is that not him getting away with it? You're still financially supporting him, no matter what he does.

If I had a job and whether I did a great job or an awful job, I still got paid the same but maybe other employees silently were disappointed, I'd say I could get away with whatever. You know?

I understand what you mean, but are you suggesting a boycott, then? That we as fans simply vote with our wallets, so to speak, just stop buying tickets, in the hopes that would induce the band to provide him with an (admittedly much-needed) intervention?

I still love the band and their music as a whole package, so I will continue to support them, yes. Whatever they allow him to get away with, if they choose not to intervene and allow it, then that's kinda on them.

But I agree it leaves us in a sticky position. What can you do in that case except decide to still see your favorites, despite, or not. My choice is the former, because I enjoy these shows. I wasn't there in 1992, I have only as of yet seen them a handful of times by comparison with many here, and I'm personally gonna enjoy it as long as I can. I can respect that it may be a different decision for those who have been there since the beginning.

As someone who has been accused more than once by several people in my circle that I <dramatic air quotes> over think things <more air quotes>, I think you need to just make the decision you want in the moment. 

I got into DT because of James, so he's a BIG part of why I like them.  I prefer the studio work at this point; I'm not getting setlists I flip over, and what I do get is often compromised by SOMETHING.   But "voting with your wallet" is like talking with smoke signals.   Me:  I probably wouldn't have gone to the AVFTTOTW show if it wasn't for the group meet up.  I wanted to hang with my friends at a show for a band I REALLY like.  Would not have gone alone (as I did to the MP/JP shows earlier).  I'm going in June to see friends, Devin Townsend, and DT in that order.  It's not like I'm going to bail after Devi; I'm in for the duration and I just KNOW I'm going to have a great time, but what does the band get to take from my attendance at their last two shows?   

Certainly NOT that "all is well in James land", just that, with the totality of the variables, he's not yet a dealbreaker.     That's a PRETTY damn low bar (my actual bar is higher, but that's all the message the BAND can take without meeting me and asking me).  That's a meaningless vote, IMO. 

[jadiggerdt]

Sorry DT with click has made James worse.

[Ben_Jamin]

But how is that not him getting away with it? You're still financially supporting him, no matter what he does.

If I had a job and whether I did a great job or an awful job, I still got paid the same but maybe other employees silently were disappointed, I'd say I could get away with whatever. You know?

I understand what you mean, but are you suggesting a boycott, then? That we as fans simply vote with our wallets, so to speak, just stop buying tickets, in the hopes that would induce the band to provide him with an (admittedly much-needed) intervention?

I still love the band and their music as a whole package, so I will continue to support them, yes. Whatever they allow him to get away with, if they choose not to intervene and allow it, then that's kinda on them.

But I agree it leaves us in a sticky position. What can you do in that case except decide to still see your favorites, despite, or not. My choice is the former, because I enjoy these shows. I wasn't there in 1992, I have only as of yet seen them a handful of times by comparison with many here, and I'm personally gonna enjoy it as long as I can. I can respect that it may be a different decision for those who have been there since the beginning.

As someone who has been accused more than once by several people in my circle that I <dramatic air quotes> over think things <more air quotes>, I think you need to just make the decision you want in the moment. 

I got into DT because of James, so he's a BIG part of why I like them.  I prefer the studio work at this point; I'm not getting setlists I flip over, and what I do get is often compromised by SOMETHING.   But "voting with your wallet" is like talking with smoke signals.   Me:  I probably wouldn't have gone to the AVFTTOTW show if it wasn't for the group meet up.  I wanted to hang with my friends at a show for a band I REALLY like.  Would not have gone alone (as I did to the MP/JP shows earlier).  I'm going in June to see friends, Devin Townsend, and DT in that order.  It's not like I'm going to bail after Devi; I'm in for the duration and I just KNOW I'm going to have a great time, but what does the band get to take from my attendance at their last two shows?   

Certainly NOT that "all is well in James land", just that, with the totality of the variables, he's not yet a dealbreaker.     That's a PRETTY damn low bar (my actual bar is higher, but that's all the message the BAND can take without meeting me and asking me).  That's a meaningless vote, IMO. 

If I were able to ask the band one question about JLB, it would be...Why do you consider JLB to be an integral member of the band?

The guys could very well consider JLB's tone of voice to be the tone that makes Dream Theater what they are. To them, the band wouldn't be Dream Theater without him. After having to deal with so many singers and then finally finding the one that fits and gels with everyone else, why would the band want to suddenly end that relationship?

If the guys don't want to say anything about JLBs voice, what gives us the right to demand them to tell us?

[nobloodyname]

Sorry DT with click has made James worse.

Interesting perspective. Care to expand on it?

For me, DT are definitely less interesting with a click, that's for sure. But I'm not sure how a click makes James worse.

[Dream Team]

[

If the guys don't want to say anything about JLBs voice, what gives us the right to demand them to tell us?

Because they expect us to pay exorbitant prices for the “privilege” of listening to him.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

[

If the guys don't want to say anything about JLBs voice, what gives us the right to demand them to tell us?

Because they expect us to pay exorbitant prices for the “privilege” of listening to him.

Agreed. Plus, we aren't even asking the band to say anything. We are just expressing our exuberance or frustration as fans. Once you put yourself out there to the public, you understand there is going to be feedback both positive and negative. That's just how it goes. There is no special 'right' required to express ones opinion.