Author Topic: The downfall of Twitter/the rise of X  (Read 33073 times)

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Online Adami

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Re: The downfall of Twitter
« Reply #385 on: December 15, 2022, 08:12:06 AM »
I wonder how many people caught the details on that map?  "Epstein Island".

12 trips.

I'm no fan of Musk - no hater either; indifferent - but it's really getting ridiculous how vindictive and black/white people are.  You're either a saint, can do no wrong, or, once a line is crossed, there's no evil you won't perpetrate, no failure you're not capable of achieving.  Don't any of these people have their own quirks, failures, blind spots?

Exactly. We've ALL spent our time on Epstein island.
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Re: The downfall of Twitter
« Reply #386 on: December 15, 2022, 08:14:57 AM »
I wonder how many people caught the details on that map?  "Epstein Island".

12 trips.

I'm no fan of Musk - no hater either; indifferent - but it's really getting ridiculous how vindictive and black/white people are.  You're either a saint, can do no wrong, or, once a line is crossed, there's no evil you won't perpetrate, no failure you're not capable of achieving.  Don't any of these people have their own quirks, failures, blind spots?

Exactly. We've ALL spent our time on Epstein island.

Completely agree Adami and Stads.  I don't even pay attention and I'm on Twitter.  Didn't even know about it until I saw these posts.  I feel my life is better not getting involved in it.
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Offline El Barto

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Re: The downfall of Twitter
« Reply #387 on: December 15, 2022, 08:20:36 AM »
I wonder how many people caught the details on that map?  "Epstein Island".

12 trips.

I'm no fan of Musk - no hater either; indifferent - but it's really getting ridiculous how vindictive and black/white people are.  You're either a saint, can do no wrong, or, once a line is crossed, there's no evil you won't perpetrate, no failure you're not capable of achieving.  Don't any of these people have their own quirks, failures, blind spots?

Exactly. We've ALL spent our time on Epstein island.
WTF? I never got my invite. Now I'm really mad at the guy.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: The downfall of Twitter
« Reply #388 on: December 15, 2022, 08:27:02 AM »
I wonder how many people caught the details on that map?  "Epstein Island".

12 trips.

I'm no fan of Musk - no hater either; indifferent - but it's really getting ridiculous how vindictive and black/white people are.  You're either a saint, can do no wrong, or, once a line is crossed, there's no evil you won't perpetrate, no failure you're not capable of achieving.  Don't any of these people have their own quirks, failures, blind spots?

Exactly. We've ALL spent our time on Epstein island.

Well, I mean it slightly differently; it's not that we all spent time on Epstein Island - my invite must've got lost with Bart's - but "being a bad businessman" doesn't make you "a pedophile" and yet that's where we are.   I made a list of all the things that Trump has been accused of - I'm thinking really about how since he's a bad President, then clearly Melania can't POSSIBLY love him or whatever - and it's the same here. 

I'm making this point because it dovetails to the other conversation we're having.  The people that hate Trump - and now Musk - are often the first people to be pointing out the "hate" in others.  It's funny how those same people seem to always miraculously find a way to distinguish THEIR personal hate from the hate they claim to despise so much.   As if someone hating one person is any different than hating the group they belong to (but that's the rub; it's NOT different, because it's NOT really one person, it's one person as a symbol of a group).

Online Adami

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Re: The downfall of Twitter
« Reply #389 on: December 15, 2022, 08:32:17 AM »
I don't think they're connected. Maybe people think Trump is a bad president and, for completely unrelated reasons, think Melania probably doesn't love him.

Maybe people think Elon is doing a piss poor job running twitter and, for completely unrelated reasons, think he is a douche bag, and for other unrelated reasons, think he banged some girls on Epstein island.

I have no card in the Musk game. Just an observation.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: The downfall of Twitter
« Reply #390 on: December 15, 2022, 08:39:09 AM »
I don't think they're connected. Maybe people think Trump is a bad president and, for completely unrelated reasons, think Melania probably doesn't love him.

Maybe people think Elon is doing a piss poor job running twitter and, for completely unrelated reasons, think he is a douche bag, and for other unrelated reasons, think he banged some girls on Epstein island.

I have no card in the Musk game. Just an observation.

I know I'm wrong, but I politely disagree on the "for completely unrelated reasons".   I don't think they are unrelated at all. I think we live in a world of absolutes.   There's little room for nuance when everything is elevated to 11.

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Re: The downfall of Twitter
« Reply #391 on: December 15, 2022, 08:41:36 AM »
Well, as long as you know you're wrong.  :biggrin:
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Offline Skeever

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Re: The downfall of Twitter
« Reply #392 on: December 15, 2022, 08:52:24 AM »
I don't think they're connected. Maybe people think Trump is a bad president and, for completely unrelated reasons, think Melania probably doesn't love him.

Maybe people think Elon is doing a piss poor job running twitter and, for completely unrelated reasons, think he is a douche bag, and for other unrelated reasons, think he banged some girls on Epstein island.

I have no card in the Musk game. Just an observation.

I know I'm wrong, but I politely disagree on the "for completely unrelated reasons".   I don't think they are unrelated at all. I think we live in a world of absolutes.   There's little room for nuance when everything is elevated to 11.

Doesn't Elon bring it on himself?
He's the one who accused the scuba diver in Thailand of being a pedo when the guy didn't use one of his submarines to save those kids awhile back.
And he's been nothing short on incendiary recently, constantly railing against "woke leftists". C'mon.

Musk must be surrounded by sycophants who congratulate his every action because he seems to be having a tough time coping with the reality that many, many people Do Not Like Him.

Offline Stadler

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Re: The downfall of Twitter
« Reply #393 on: December 15, 2022, 09:15:52 AM »
I don't think they're connected. Maybe people think Trump is a bad president and, for completely unrelated reasons, think Melania probably doesn't love him.

Maybe people think Elon is doing a piss poor job running twitter and, for completely unrelated reasons, think he is a douche bag, and for other unrelated reasons, think he banged some girls on Epstein island.

I have no card in the Musk game. Just an observation.

I know I'm wrong, but I politely disagree on the "for completely unrelated reasons".   I don't think they are unrelated at all. I think we live in a world of absolutes.   There's little room for nuance when everything is elevated to 11.

Doesn't Elon bring it on himself?
He's the one who accused the scuba diver in Thailand of being a pedo when the guy didn't use one of his submarines to save those kids awhile back.
And he's been nothing short on incendiary recently, constantly railing against "woke leftists". C'mon.

Musk must be surrounded by sycophants who congratulate his every action because he seems to be having a tough time coping with the reality that many, many people Do Not Like Him.

I don't know; maybe I just don't have that "vindictive gene".  I was taught to do unto others, and that two wrongs don't make a right.  Because Elon Musk accuses people of being pedophiles as a weapon, doesn't mean I should too.  Bear with, because I'm having this same sort of conversation in multiple places, but I wrote something along these lines to Adami.  The law is the only standard we can FORCE others to adhere to, but if I'm going to demand that others hold themselves to a higher standard, a moral standard, then I ought to be at least accountable to that standard, even given that people make mistakes.  No?

Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: The downfall of Twitter
« Reply #394 on: December 15, 2022, 09:22:02 AM »
I don't think they're connected. Maybe people think Trump is a bad president and, for completely unrelated reasons, think Melania probably doesn't love him.

Maybe people think Elon is doing a piss poor job running twitter and, for completely unrelated reasons, think he is a douche bag, and for other unrelated reasons, think he banged some girls on Epstein island.

I have no card in the Musk game. Just an observation.

I know I'm wrong, but I politely disagree on the "for completely unrelated reasons".   I don't think they are unrelated at all. I think we live in a world of absolutes.   There's little room for nuance when everything is elevated to 11.

Doesn't Elon bring it on himself?
He's the one who accused the scuba diver in Thailand of being a pedo when the guy didn't use one of his submarines to save those kids awhile back.
And he's been nothing short on incendiary recently, constantly railing against "woke leftists". C'mon.

Musk must be surrounded by sycophants who congratulate his every action because he seems to be having a tough time coping with the reality that many, many people Do Not Like Him.

I don't know; maybe I just don't have that "vindictive gene".  I was taught to do unto others, and that two wrongs don't make a right.  Because Elon Musk accuses people of being pedophiles as a weapon, doesn't mean I should too.  Bear with, because I'm having this same sort of conversation in multiple places, but I wrote something along these lines to Adami.  The law is the only standard we can FORCE others to adhere to, but if I'm going to demand that others hold themselves to a higher standard, a moral standard, then I ought to be at least accountable to that standard, even given that people make mistakes.  No?

Isn't that called being "self-righteous"?
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Offline cramx3

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Re: The downfall of Twitter
« Reply #395 on: December 15, 2022, 09:25:16 AM »
I think it was on fox news when I was flipping through the channels in my hotel the other night, maybe it was tiktok, but someone questioned is Musk the new Trump on twitter, and it certainly does seem that way.  He's really getting under the left's skin lately and he's being extremely divisive. He's also craving attention.  I'm no fan of the guy and I mostly dislike the latest ban because he said he wasn't going to.  This guy is going back and forth on a lot of things related to twitter lately.  Why hasn't he learned to keep things in house.  Goes back to wanting attention I think. 

Offline Skeever

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Re: The downfall of Twitter
« Reply #396 on: December 15, 2022, 09:30:05 AM »
I was also taught that "two wrongs don't make a right", but I was also taught that "if you don't want to be clowned, don't be a clown." And Elon is showing a strong tendency for the clown makeup.

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Re: The downfall of Twitter
« Reply #397 on: December 15, 2022, 09:31:58 AM »
I think it was on fox news when I was flipping through the channels in my hotel the other night, maybe it was tiktok, but someone questioned is Musk the new Trump on twitter, and it certainly does seem that way.  He's really getting under the left's skin lately and he's being extremely divisive. He's also craving attention.  I'm no fan of the guy and I mostly dislike the latest ban because he said he wasn't going to.  This guy is going back and forth on a lot of things related to twitter lately.  Why hasn't he learned to keep things in house.  Goes back to wanting attention I think.

Or...Could be he knows exactly how the media operates and he is doing these things as a way to generate interest into Twitter. Since people just can't seem to not look away, or better yet, not follow Elon and just scroll on by, ignoring any post that mentions his name.

Since it seems every "story" follows the hero journey, these stories also need a villain. And the villain of the month is now Musk.

And if he's crying for attention, then the media sure are coddling him and saying..."Awe...poor baby needs his bottle" while breastfeeding him.

I was also taught that "two wrongs don't make a right", but I was also taught that "if you don't want to be clowned, don't be a clown." And Elon is showing a strong tendency for the clown makeup.

How else do you get medias attention?

There's reasons for the term...Media Circus.
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Offline El Barto

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Re: The downfall of Twitter
« Reply #398 on: December 15, 2022, 09:35:45 AM »
Maybe he just doesn't know what he's doing, and he's learning the way he always had; through trial and error.
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Offline XJDenton

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Re: The downfall of Twitter
« Reply #399 on: December 15, 2022, 09:37:52 AM »
I agree with the first part.
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Re: The downfall of Twitter
« Reply #400 on: December 15, 2022, 09:40:30 AM »
Maybe he just doesn't know what he's doing, and he's learning the way he always had; through trial and error.

That's fine, but why do it so publicly?

Like the blue check mark thing.  If he wants to change it, why isn't he just doing it the typical way, meetings inside the company and figure it out before making any sort of announcement. It seems he's just throwing shit at the wall at this point, which could be trial and error, but the optics are pretty bad.

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Re: The downfall of Twitter
« Reply #401 on: December 15, 2022, 09:51:52 AM »
Maybe he just doesn't know what he's doing, and he's learning the way he always had; through trial and error.

That's fine, but why do it so publicly?

Like the blue check mark thing.  If he wants to change it, why isn't he just doing it the typical way, meetings inside the company and figure it out before making any sort of announcement. It seems he's just throwing shit at the wall at this point, which could be trial and error, but the optics are pretty bad.
Because it's just what he does.



I've said this before, but it's an approach that you'll see in rocketry. Mistakes are as useful as successes.
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Offline XJDenton

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Re: The downfall of Twitter
« Reply #402 on: December 15, 2022, 10:41:52 AM »


Have to say, the added context feature IS useful.
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Re: The downfall of Twitter
« Reply #403 on: December 15, 2022, 12:23:55 PM »


I've said this before, but it's an approach that you'll see in rocketry. Mistakes are as useful as successes.

Yeah.

When the revamped Blue was announced, and Musk said no one would ever pay $8 just to spam, the risks seemed obvious, and then they happened. Could easily be foreseen. I point this out to highlight that being willing to make mistakes doesn't have to mean making obvious blunders.

I also know from personal experience what happens when a big corporation tries to run like a startup, exactly what Musk is doing. In my experience, it doesn't work. Maybe Musk will have more success. He seems smarter and harder working than the leadership where I was.

And yet, all that said...

For some reason, in our culture, we've come to hold risk aversion as a sacred value. "Safetyism" as it's been called. Related to this (though I don't know exactly how) is that people who have never risked anything in their lives can point to and mock the failures of people who at least tried.

I say this as someone who has a lot of problems with risk aversion - Being willing to fail is the only way you can succeed. A lack of failure might feel good in the short term, but in the long term the failures will seem small and the lack of successes will loom large.

I feel like a lot of people watching Musks's Twitter tenure are thinking "I of course would hold meetings and consult with experts to make the best decisions." That's what the old Twitter did. It was a low enough value company that a single billionare could buy it. The company was technologically stagnant.

The "move fast and break things" mentality of the 00s/10s tech boom has been somewhat rightfully criticized, but in the end, those people built some of the most prosperous and powerful companies in America. The "adults" who took over afterwards turned the big tech cos into behemoths being punished by recession.

Musk might have bitten off more than he can chew, but how many people were even willing to take the bite?
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Offline Stadler

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Re: The downfall of Twitter
« Reply #404 on: December 15, 2022, 01:18:33 PM »
I was also taught that "two wrongs don't make a right", but I was also taught that "if you don't want to be clowned, don't be a clown." And Elon is showing a strong tendency for the clown makeup.

The two are not the same.  I control myself.  I can or cannot commit the wrong.  It is wholly up to me.  "Clown" is subjective; we can have a whole thread of people that some people are clowns and others do not.

Offline Stadler

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Re: The downfall of Twitter
« Reply #405 on: December 15, 2022, 01:20:54 PM »


I've said this before, but it's an approach that you'll see in rocketry. Mistakes are as useful as successes.

Yeah.

When the revamped Blue was announced, and Musk said no one would ever pay $8 just to spam, the risks seemed obvious, and then they happened. Could easily be foreseen. I point this out to highlight that being willing to make mistakes doesn't have to mean making obvious blunders.

I also know from personal experience what happens when a big corporation tries to run like a startup, exactly what Musk is doing. In my experience, it doesn't work. Maybe Musk will have more success. He seems smarter and harder working than the leadership where I was.

And yet, all that said...

For some reason, in our culture, we've come to hold risk aversion as a sacred value. "Safetyism" as it's been called. Related to this (though I don't know exactly how) is that people who have never risked anything in their lives can point to and mock the failures of people who at least tried.

I say this as someone who has a lot of problems with risk aversion - Being willing to fail is the only way you can succeed. A lack of failure might feel good in the short term, but in the long term the failures will seem small and the lack of successes will loom large.

I feel like a lot of people watching Musks's Twitter tenure are thinking "I of course would hold meetings and consult with experts to make the best decisions." That's what the old Twitter did. It was a low enough value company that a single billionare could buy it. The company was technologically stagnant.

The "move fast and break things" mentality of the 00s/10s tech boom has been somewhat rightfully criticized, but in the end, those people built some of the most prosperous and powerful companies in America. The "adults" who took over afterwards turned the big tech cos into behemoths being punished by recession.

Musk might have bitten off more than he can chew, but how many people were even willing to take the bite?

We live in a "failure is not an option" society, or at least one that "claims" it's not an option (it sounds more like bravado to me).  We are, more often than not, only as good as our worst moment.  Couple that with our massive insecurity, and our society is not a safe place to make mistakes.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2022, 01:40:40 PM by Stadler »

Offline cramx3

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Re: The downfall of Twitter
« Reply #406 on: December 15, 2022, 01:28:46 PM »
I don't think space x is entirely comparable to what is happening at twitter.  One company is using cutting edge technology, the other is a known company using tech that's tried and true.  Using the blue check example again, Twitter went through the pain of figuring this out already.  I'd imagine they failed already at something before finding a solution.  Now when Elon messes with it publicly, it doesn't come off as learning from a failure, it's a failure because he didn't take into account what was previously learned.  Making twitter profitable is no doubt going to be a trial and error thing, but the way he is doing it, doesn't feel like a learning experience to me.  Feels more like personal gratification.

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Re: The downfall of Twitter
« Reply #407 on: December 15, 2022, 02:55:13 PM »
I don't think space x is entirely comparable to what is happening at twitter.  One company is using cutting edge technology, the other is a known company using tech that's tried and true.  Using the blue check example again, Twitter went through the pain of figuring this out already.  I'd imagine they failed already at something before finding a solution.  Now when Elon messes with it publicly, it doesn't come off as learning from a failure, it's a failure because he didn't take into account what was previously learned.  Making twitter profitable is no doubt going to be a trial and error thing, but the way he is doing it, doesn't feel like a learning experience to me.  Feels more like personal gratification.

Completely agree with your post

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Re: The downfall of Twitter
« Reply #408 on: December 15, 2022, 03:10:53 PM »
I don't think space x is entirely comparable to what is happening at twitter.  One company is using cutting edge technology, the other is a known company using tech that's tried and true.  Using the blue check example again, Twitter went through the pain of figuring this out already.  I'd imagine they failed already at something before finding a solution.  Now when Elon messes with it publicly, it doesn't come off as learning from a failure, it's a failure because he didn't take into account what was previously learned.  Making twitter profitable is no doubt going to be a trial and error thing, but the way he is doing it, doesn't feel like a learning experience to me.  Feels more like personal gratification.
As I said earlier, I don't think he knows what he's doing. He's approaching this the same way because he thinks he needs to reinvent the wheel. He does not. Twitter was already a thing. As I said a month ago, he's going to reinvent it right back to the place it was before he purchased it. He's going to make all of the same mistakes, learn the same lessons, and guide it to the same place.
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Offline Skeever

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Re: The downfall of Twitter
« Reply #409 on: December 15, 2022, 06:05:53 PM »
Allegedly now he's banning reporters who have been covering him. lol.

That said, also seeing more bots than ever.

Look forward to revisiting the app in like... a year.

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Re: The downfall of Twitter
« Reply #410 on: December 15, 2022, 06:31:11 PM »
Everything is hunky-dory in my J-metal echo chamber.

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Offline XJDenton

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Re: The downfall of Twitter
« Reply #412 on: December 16, 2022, 02:16:23 AM »
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-63981767

Liquidation of your own company's stock when the price is at a local minimum doesn't seem something you would normally do if your financials were healthy, or is that just me?
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Re: The downfall of Twitter
« Reply #413 on: December 16, 2022, 05:02:09 AM »
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-63981767

Liquidation of your own company's stock when the price is at a local minimum doesn't seem something you would normally do if your financials were healthy, or is that just me?

Quote
It brings the total of Tesla stocks sold by Mr Musk over the past year to almost $40bn.

Investing 101... buy low, sell high - not the other way around.

And with him selling all these shares, that in-and-of-itself (ie, flooding the stock market with supply of Tesla stock) inherently lowers the price of the stock.
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Re: The downfall of Twitter
« Reply #414 on: December 16, 2022, 05:51:39 AM »
I wonder how many people caught the details on that map?  "Epstein Island".

12 trips.

I'm no fan of Musk - no hater either; indifferent - but it's really getting ridiculous how vindictive and black/white people are.  You're either a saint, can do no wrong, or, once a line is crossed, there's no evil you won't perpetrate, no failure you're not capable of achieving.  Don't any of these people have their own quirks, failures, blind spots?

No, some people are perfect, which enables them to live in glass houses AND throw stones, didn't you know that?

Musk is definitely all over the place, but the "OMG, I THOUGHT HE BELIEVED IN FREE SPEECH" people on Twitter are idiots.  Every time someone gets banned, they shout that, but just because someone who believes in free speech doesn't mean they are in favor of anyone and everyone saying whatever they want.  I am sure most of the mods here are in favor of free speech generally speaking, but, because there are forum rules, we the posters cannot just say anything we want and get away with it.  Same goes with a platform like Twitter, even where the rules appear to be fairly arbitrary as of late.


Offline XJDenton

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Re: The downfall of Twitter
« Reply #415 on: December 16, 2022, 06:21:01 AM »
"I hope that even my worst critics remain on Twitter, because that is what free speech means."

"My commitment to free speech extends even to not banning the account following my plane, even though that is a direct personal safety risk"

"By “free speech”, I simply mean that which matches the law. I am against censorship that goes far beyond the law. If people want less free speech, they will ask government to pass laws to that effect. Therefore, going beyond the law is contrary to the will of the people."

Given he unbanned literal fascists and doxxers when he took over (which would imply a pretty low bar for what is classed as acceptable speech under his/twitters rules), and is now banning people who are operating within the law (flight records are public and distributing them is not a crime, nor is reporting on it) one might be justified in being a little critical of the hypocrisy.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2022, 06:26:14 AM by XJDenton »
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Offline XJDenton

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Re: The downfall of Twitter
« Reply #416 on: December 16, 2022, 07:25:07 AM »
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

Offline Stadler

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Re: The downfall of Twitter
« Reply #417 on: December 16, 2022, 07:38:35 AM »
"I hope that even my worst critics remain on Twitter, because that is what free speech means."

"My commitment to free speech extends even to not banning the account following my plane, even though that is a direct personal safety risk"

"By “free speech”, I simply mean that which matches the law. I am against censorship that goes far beyond the law. If people want less free speech, they will ask government to pass laws to that effect. Therefore, going beyond the law is contrary to the will of the people."

Given he unbanned literal fascists and doxxers when he took over (which would imply a pretty low bar for what is classed as acceptable speech under his/twitters rules), and is now banning people who are operating within the law (flight records are public and distributing them is not a crime, nor is reporting on it) one might be justified in being a little critical of the hypocrisy.

Well, except as noted above where it's hypocrites being a little critical of the hypocrisy.  It's a sort of slippery slope.

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Re: The downfall of Twitter
« Reply #418 on: December 16, 2022, 07:46:34 AM »
I dunno. If a smoker tells people not to smoke, he's a hypocrite with a good and accurate message. It'd be pretty dumb to ignore that advice because the dude smokes.

A person doesn't have to be perfect to make a criticism.
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Offline XJDenton

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Re: The downfall of Twitter
« Reply #419 on: December 16, 2022, 07:47:38 AM »
They aren't hypocrites if they are (correctly) pointing out he said one thing (all speech that is legal should be permitted) and then performs actions that are directly contradictory to that ethos.

If Elon had marketed himself/twitter in the last weeks as being in favour of a curated space with additional limits of speech in order to foster a specific environment, then you might have a point if people were were characterising him as a free speech absolutist. But they didn't. Elon marketed himself as a free speech absolutist. So when he goes back on that, he should expect kickback.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman