Author Topic: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Sky Void of Stars (2023)  (Read 23692 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Lethean

  • Posts: 4504
Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Night Is the New Day (2009)
« Reply #315 on: January 05, 2023, 01:43:01 PM »
Years ago when I was reading/watching everything I could find about Katatonia, I found a reviewer who said that he didn’t think much of Night is the New Day after the first couple listens, but after 10 listens it was his album of the year.  So... 10 listens for everyone in this thread… :neverusethis:
« Last Edit: January 05, 2023, 05:15:12 PM by Lethean »

Offline Volante99

  • Posts: 1068
Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Night Is the New Day (2009)
« Reply #316 on: January 05, 2023, 04:52:31 PM »
"Night is the New Day" is quite possibly the artistic high point of the band.

Katatonia in this era are really incapable of doing anything wrong.

Offline ProfessorPeart

  • MP.com Refugee
  • Posts: 3286
  • Gender: Male
  • Lubed In The Face
Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Night Is the New Day (2009)
« Reply #317 on: January 05, 2023, 07:47:04 PM »
Night Is The New Day was also my very first Katatonia record. If I remember correctly, Akerfeldt had posted that the album was a masterpiece. Since I was huge into Opeth at that point, I took his recommendation and never looked back. Forsaker is quite an intro to the band.

And since I jumped the gun, I will reiterate my love for the live album. I bought the original vinyl only release and remembered trying to rip it. It did not go well so I am so glad they finally put it out on CD.

This tour was also my first time seeing them. They opened for Opeth at The Vic on the Heritage tour. I had already seen Opeth a few times and was not thrilled with Heritage so that show was all about Katatonia for me. They got a sizable slot if I remember correctly. Opeth gave them some time to play which was awesome.
beul ni teh efac = Lube In The Face / That has to be wrong.  :lol / EDIT: Oh, it's Blue! I'm an idiot.
Pardon the interruption, but I just had to run in and celebrate the majesty of Lube in the Face as highest moment in roulette history

Offline Lethean

  • Posts: 4504
Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Night Is the New Day (2009)
« Reply #318 on: January 05, 2023, 10:05:14 PM »
Night Is The New Day was also my very first Katatonia record. If I remember correctly, Akerfeldt had posted that the album was a masterpiece. Since I was huge into Opeth at that point, I took his recommendation and never looked back. Forsaker is quite an intro to the band.
That's really cool.  Opeth helped set me on the Katatonia path as well, though in my case it was bad reviews from the Heritage tour that put the show on my radar. :)

Quote
And since I jumped the gun, I will reiterate my love for the live album. I bought the original vinyl only release and remembered trying to rip it. It did not go well so I am so glad they finally put it out on CD.
I remember it being vinyl only at first.  At the time I thought it was disappointing, but had more than enough material to keep me busy for a while so I told myself to be patient and it paid off. :) 

Quote
This tour was also my first time seeing them. They opened for Opeth at The Vic on the Heritage tour. I had already seen Opeth a few times and was not thrilled with Heritage so that show was all about Katatonia for me. They got a sizable slot if I remember correctly. Opeth gave them some time to play which was awesome.
Yes, I remember it being longer than I'd expected for an opening slot.  Did you ever come to like Heritage more?  I never really fell in love with the album - I liked it pretty well, but not as much as thought I would when I found out they had dropped the harsh vocals.

Offline ProfessorPeart

  • MP.com Refugee
  • Posts: 3286
  • Gender: Male
  • Lubed In The Face
Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Night Is the New Day (2009)
« Reply #319 on: January 06, 2023, 07:35:44 AM »
Quote
This tour was also my first time seeing them. They opened for Opeth at The Vic on the Heritage tour. I had already seen Opeth a few times and was not thrilled with Heritage so that show was all about Katatonia for me. They got a sizable slot if I remember correctly. Opeth gave them some time to play which was awesome.
Yes, I remember it being longer than I'd expected for an opening slot.  Did you ever come to like Heritage more?  I never really fell in love with the album - I liked it pretty well, but not as much as thought I would when I found out they had dropped the harsh vocals.

If you see my post over in the Opeth clean vocals poll thread, you'll see I list Heritage as my least favorite Opeth album, period. Just does nothing for me.

Katatonia has leapfrogged Opeth in terms of album excitement. I don't dislike current Opeth, but I also find it rather boring at times.
beul ni teh efac = Lube In The Face / That has to be wrong.  :lol / EDIT: Oh, it's Blue! I'm an idiot.
Pardon the interruption, but I just had to run in and celebrate the majesty of Lube in the Face as highest moment in roulette history

Offline billboy73

  • Posts: 405
Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Night Is the New Day (2009)
« Reply #320 on: January 06, 2023, 08:39:23 AM »
Lethean, another great write-up, as usual.  You may have mentioned earlier in the thread, but how many times have you seen Katatonia?

They are currently my number one band to see live, that I have not yet seen.  I wanted to hit the Atlanta show on this past tour, but the timing wasn't right.  Hopefully I will see them soon...

Offline Lethean

  • Posts: 4504
Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Night Is the New Day (2009)
« Reply #321 on: January 06, 2023, 10:01:59 AM »
Lethean, another great write-up, as usual.  You may have mentioned earlier in the thread, but how many times have you seen Katatonia?

They are currently my number one band to see live, that I have not yet seen.  I wanted to hit the Atlanta show on this past tour, but the timing wasn't right.  Hopefully I will see them soon...
I've seen them 25 times.  They mentioned in an interview that they want to come back to North America for Sky Void of Stars, so hopefully they will and you'll be able to see them sooner rather than later.

Offline nick_z

  • Posts: 3861
  • Gender: Male
Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Night Is the New Day (2009)
« Reply #322 on: January 06, 2023, 07:19:59 PM »
Night is the New Day! Actually, Lethean, you are not wrong about the number of listens needed to appreciate it...It took me a while too. I think it has to do with the melodies (especially Jonas' singing) being much subtler, for the most part. Something I noted with TGCD already...it takes a little longer for them to worm their way into the brain...

Anyway, at first I wasn't overly impressed. It felt like the album was a less exciting version of TGCD (noting that even that one wasn't an immediate "hit" for me). Turns out, I was wrong  ;) Not so much in terms of which one I like better (I still prefer TGCD to this one), rather in my first impressions about the sound. There's so much more texture in the production here. I guess it was Frank Default's involvement...the background electronics and the subtle orchestrations are SO tastefully done. It's truly beautiful stuff, in that respect. And it's definitely one of their more, un, nocturnal records. Doesn't feel quite as aggressive as TGCD.

You know how I tended to find the "fan-favorites" from past records to be my own favorites as well? Well, that didn't happen with Forsaker. Not bad by any means, but I never truly connected with it. Not their best opener, imo...

...But then comes The Longest Year...amazing stuff. The quality of the production and arrangements I was mentioning above really comes through in this song, I think. I always felt this tune fits in a hypothetical line of catchier modern Katatonia songs...perhaps starting already with My Twin...but then continuing over the next few albums with The Racing Heart, Lethean, Serein, Winter of Our Passing…). It's all these short, catchy tunes that manage to be so interesting and so unmistakably "Katatonia". This one has a slightly unusual structure, I guess (ABAB?), and the chorus is absolutely phenomenal. Wish they repeated it a few more times, actually :)

Idle Blood is very Opeth-sounding (the laid-back version of them, at least). Onward into Battle is another big favorite on the album, with incredibly cool drumming. The instrumental section sounds very Opeth to me as well, with the mellotron-like keys. Liberation has a great chorus too – it’s one spot where I can still feel some Viva Emptiness vibes.

The Promise of Deceit is a little plodding but, again, the arrangement is very cool, with the rich layering of the rhythm and clean guitars and the electronics. Continuing on with a similar pace, Nephilim is almost like a modern version of “doom-Katatonia”. Not my favorite, but it has its place in the flow of the album.

New Night has a beautiful chorus and instrumentation, with piano and keyboards weaving in and out. After Inheritance – another laid back number - Day and then the Shade is a welcome change in pace. Wonderful verse and one of my favorite songs here. The record has a great closer in Departer...appropriately haunting, with nice guest vocals.

Overall the album lacks a bit of dynamism, compared to VE and TGCD, for example...which I still prefer. Sure, Katatonia are not necessarily known for "urgency" in their music, but there are parts in the album that sometimes struggle a bit to hold my attention. Regardless, this general mood is probably what they were going for anyway, and there is no denying this is an incredibly well-crafted piece of work.

Once again, good stuff!

Offline Lethean

  • Posts: 4504
Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Night Is the New Day (2009)
« Reply #323 on: January 06, 2023, 10:38:18 PM »
Night is the New Day! Actually, Lethean, you are not wrong about the number of listens needed to appreciate it...It took me a while too. I think it has to do with the melodies (especially Jonas' singing) being much subtler, for the most part. Something I noted with TGCD already...it takes a little longer for them to worm their way into the brain...
Yeah.  My early Katatonia album rankings had me putting Viva Emptiness ahead of Night is the New Day and then after a while it changed and Night Is the New Day is just that little bit better (to me).


Quote
You know how I tended to find the "fan-favorites" from past records to be my own favorites as well? Well, that didn't happen with Forsaker. Not bad by any means, but I never truly connected with it. Not their best opener, imo...
Noooooo......  OK I'm fine with anyone thinking it's not their "best" opener because all of their openers are awesome and how do you pick just one?  :)  But wow do I love that song.  Maybe being the first one is part of it.  But I think the guitars on that song are so cool too.  I don't know if you'd call what Anders is doing a "solo" but whatever it is, I like it.

Quote
...But then comes The Longest Year...amazing stuff. The quality of the production and arrangements I was mentioning above really comes through in this song, I think. I always felt this tune fits in a hypothetical line of catchier modern Katatonia songs...perhaps starting already with My Twin...but then continuing over the next few albums with The Racing Heart, Lethean, Serein, Winter of Our Passing…). It's all these short, catchy tunes that manage to be so interesting and so unmistakably "Katatonia". This one has a slightly unusual structure, I guess (ABAB?), and the chorus is absolutely phenomenal. Wish they repeated it a few more times, actually :)
I wouldn't have thought to group any of those songs together, that's interesting.  I think The Longest Year isn't so catchy... but I don't mean that in a negative way at all.  I think catchy and non-catchy songs can be equally as good.  I just feel like The Longest Year draws you in in a different way.

Offline nick_z

  • Posts: 3861
  • Gender: Male
Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Night Is the New Day (2009)
« Reply #324 on: January 07, 2023, 07:15:21 AM »

Quote
You know how I tended to find the "fan-favorites" from past records to be my own favorites as well? Well, that didn't happen with Forsaker. Not bad by any means, but I never truly connected with it. Not their best opener, imo...
Noooooo......  OK I'm fine with anyone thinking it's not their "best" opener because all of their openers are awesome and how do you pick just one?  :)  But wow do I love that song.  Maybe being the first one is part of it.  But I think the guitars on that song are so cool too.  I don't know if you'd call what Anders is doing a "solo" but whatever it is, I like it.

 ;)

I know...like I said, it's me...Forsaker seems to be a song that's widely appreciated. The contrast between the heavy and the soft is cool, but overall I was never quite taken by this song the same way...

I wouldn't have thought to group any of those songs together, that's interesting.  I think The Longest Year isn't so catchy... but I don't mean that in a negative way at all.  I think catchy and non-catchy songs can be equally as good.  I just feel like The Longest Year draws you in in a different way.

Yep, maybe catchy wasn't even the right way to put it...I just feel these songs all have these more subdued, atmospheric verses, and then the choruses open up in this almost epic way, with a more sustained pace. The Longest Year is a great song, and that's what matters  :biggrin: But yes, it has an interesting structure. I love it.

Offline LithoJazzoSphere

  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 7917
  • Placid Eruption
Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Night Is the New Day (2009)
« Reply #325 on: January 08, 2023, 08:52:46 AM »
*I wrote this without reading anything Lethean or anyone else wrote in the thread, so it'll interesting to see if there are any interesting convergences. 

*I think this is where their sound starts getting a bit polarizing for some people who were onboard the last few releases (the ones who only like the first couple are often unreachable).  It's probably the least dramatic change in sounds between albums they've had yet.  It's a bit slower and has fewer pummelling parts, the keyboard/electronics presence has been expanded a bit more, with a lusher feel to everything, but the general production style and feel has been solidified further, and this is more or less "their sound" going forward, with subtle variations.  People who insist on bands reinventing themselves every single album (I'm not one of those) will probably feel they've "become stagnant". 

*But for me the formula they've discovered by this point is near perfection, and changing too much would be risky.  I don't need them to be innovative when they've arrived at a sound this exceptional.  I also think that there is probably a divide between people who see this album as a prototype for the next one, and those who feel this is the original vision and Dead End Kings is the leftovers, but you'll have to evaluate for yourselves when we get there. 

*It's interesting that this is the audition for Jonas as "one-man-Katatonia", having written a lot of the album himself, and even having played more of the guitar parts than before.  Of course this will be revisited again on the most recent and the future Katatonia albums as well.  Anders and Jonas make a great songwriting team, clearly, but it's obvious that they've both internalized their unique style quite well by this point, that they can sound this cohesive regardless of who is the primary writer. 

*Frank Default's presence on keyboards as a "sixth Beatle" addition is probably the overall most significant change in the vibe of this album compared to earlier ones.  Apparently some of the online credit info is incomplete, because Frank was not listed as working with them before this album,, but in some interviews the band members state that he worked on the TGCD B-sides, specifically mentioning "Code Against the Code".  I wouldn't be surprised about "Unfurl" either, as the Fender Rhodes piano is one of his signature sounds, and there's a bit of it in there. 

*But as an example of how they're incorporating more engaging background ambiance, I love all the soundscapey textures around 3:45 of "Forsaker".  Even simple pads like in the background of the first verse of "Liberation" are so effective.  Songs like "The Longest Year" have more overt synthetic elements driving them, such as the first minute of it.  A lot of Frank's work at this point is quite subtle, you don't really notice it if you're casually listening, but the music would definitely feel less rich without it.  A bit more overt example is one such as 3:12 in "Inheritance", where Frank's tickling of the tines adds an element they didn't have previously.  Or a little after 3:00 in "New Night". 

*One other new element that this album brings is this beautiful low-gain lead tone that they'll continue to refine going forward, which sounds sublime for short melodies and solos.  A great example is the phrasing at 2:07 in "Forsaker".  I wish there was a bit more vibrato on the end of the held notes, but otherwise it's an immaculate sound.  Around when this album came out I had developed this dichotomy where the guitar tones I liked were either super-distorted metal ones, or acoustic guitar ones - I wasn't as into clean or mildly distorted electric textures.  This album was part of what turned my opinion around, and now there are timbres I enjoy all over the spectrum of saturation.  1:04 of "Inheritance" has another similar solo, though it has a dab of modulation on it as well, plus a short E-bow bit at 1:21.  The lead returns again at 3:54, but now octave-doubled. 

*Some of my favorite Liljekvist moments are the fills in "Forsaker" at 1:31, 2:05 in "Idle Blood", 1:01 in "Onward Into Battle", 3:01 in "Liberation", and the offbeat China at 3:45 of "The Longest Year" and 3:05 of "Liberation".  Honestly my favorite bit might be the passage starting at 2:34 in "Liberation", with the snare ghost notes and all of the splash, China, and open hi-hat accents in unexpected places. For a flashier one, I love the sextuplet fill at 3:46 on the same song and how it ends gracefully on the ride bell. 

*Back to those offbeat accents again, Daniel makes a whole style out of them on "Onward Into Battle".  They're on a slightly open hat to the center-left in the intro and second verse, a more open hat to the center-right in the choruses, and by the final chorus at 2:48 they've moved to the ride to the center-left.  To make things even more fun, they're back again on the intro to "New Night", but now they contrast the staccato guitar/kick, giving a polymetric feel, and inching them slowly towards a more modern prog sound. 

*I don't know how Jonas keeps getting away with this, but he really is the master of simple but memorable melodies.  For example, the "Forsaker" chorus is basically just three notes (and half the time is spent on just one of them), and yet it's impossibly catchy.  His backing vocals keep improving, and I think he hits his highest backing notes yet around 1:31 in "Idle Blood". 

*Speaking of "Idle Blood", it is one of the most Opethian songs they've done, with the acoustics, Jonas' vocal delivery, it could easily have fit on something like Damnation.  The descending chromatic section at 3:06 on it might be the most ravishing portion of the album, like the best of mellow Katatonia and Opeth synthesized. 

*Mattias has some really neat basslines on this album, like on "Idle Blood", or possibly my favorite, 0:48 in "Onward Into Battle" and how that synchronizes with Daniel's kick. 

*I love the clean guitar part at 0:53 on "Liberation", another simple but effective pattern.  2:45 in that song is another variation of the signature Nystrom lick, I love the symmetry of that scale with two separate half-step and three-half-step sequences like at 3:01.  This discography walkthrough has really cemented how much I like Anders as a textural guitarist (I probably unfairly attribute to him some ideas that might have been Fredrik's or Jonas', but he was doing this long before either of them played guitar in Katatonia).  The tremolo guitar effect throughout "Onward Into Battle" is such a great sound, for example.

*"The Promise of Deceit" is one of their more unique songs so far, and maybe I should have included it in that list I made a few months ago of 10-20 songs or so that demonstrate Katatonia's range.  It's reminiscent of some Nine Inch Nails and Depeche Mode material in this era with the grinding and distorted electronics in the background.  I'm not even sure I made this realization until relatively recently, despite listening to a lot of those artists.  It's one of the songs that took the longest to grow on me and I listened to it much less than the others for a long time.  It seemed overly simple, but I've come to appreciate it much more over time.  0:36 in it reuses the seesawing rhythmic pattern from 0:53 in "Liberation" for the guitar motif, just with the 3rd and 2nd degrees of the scale rather than 5th and 4th, but in a different key.  And then the bonus track "Sold Heart" is similar again with another minor third or second to root seesawing pattern around 2:39. 

"Nephilim" brings the doom element again, and is a tribute to Fields of the Nephilim.  2:53 in it I believe is the first usage of vocalise in Katatonia's catalog rather than normal lyrics.  It sounds like it's being doubled an octave up by an uncredited guest female vocalist, but I can't seem to find any information about it online.  It doesn't sound like any of the other backing vocals they've had to this point. 

*The more I think about it, this album sets up the next even better than I realized.  For example, jumping ahead slightly, the ending of "Onward Into Battle" would make a great transition into "The Racing Heart" on the next album.  And the mellower parts of "Nephilim" also hint at a vibe that I feel that "The Racing Heart" even more fully actualizes. 

*Weirdly, each of these songs stands out individually to me more than TGCD's or VE's, which even as many times as I've heard them, blend together a bit, but I don't like this album quite as much as a whole as TGCD or VE.  Part of the difference in individuality of songs might be that they're experimenting with more keys again (as in groupings of notes, not synthesizers) - the vast majority of VE and TGCD were in just three keys, while this album contains substantial portions in at least seven. 

*"Departer" has their first guest vocalist (Krister Linder) since BMD, but unfortunately it's probably my least favorite song on the album, or that Katatonia has done in quite a few albums. 

*"Day and Then the Shade" has a really weird music video.  I'm not sure how it was even greenlit, it's like a student art project more than an official video.  All I can figure is that the label was trying to fit in with the imagery of the time from horror films and how every symphonic metal band seemed to have vocalists wearing those sort of outfits.  Or it may have been a play to try and capture more of the resurgent goth crowd, who notoriously don't like being conflated with metal even though there's often a lot of fanbase and aesthetic crossover. 

*The Frank Default remix of "Day & Then The Shade" is great, and kind of reminiscent of a lot of the electronic music I was really into at the time this came out. 

"Ashen" continues on with the grand Katatonia tradition of bonus cuts being just as good if not better than album selections.  It's one of their richer songs rhythmically as well.  I love the triplet guitar lick at 0:49 into the rim click motif.  The chorus has a variation on the rhythmic pattern from the intro of "New Night".  The half-speed triplet hits in the chorus effectively juxtapose the longer sustained notes of the lead guitar part there as well, which the "New Night" chorus also did, but more subtly. 

Favorite songs:  "Forsaker", "Idle Blood", "Onward Into Battle", "Ashen", "The Longest Year", "Liberation", "Nephilim", "New Night", "Day & Then the Shade (Frank Default remix)", "Inheritance"...so, almost all of them?  Yes. 
« Last Edit: January 08, 2023, 09:19:34 AM by LithoJazzoSphere »

Offline Lethean

  • Posts: 4504
Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Night Is the New Day (2009)
« Reply #326 on: January 08, 2023, 07:23:26 PM »
I don't think there's too much overlap in our comments.  Which I like, because I'm about to have my headphones listen with the timestamps. :) 

I think I'm definitely guilty of this as well, since I don't really know who plays what:
Quote
This discography walkthrough has really cemented how much I like Anders as a textural guitarist (I probably unfairly attribute to him some ideas that might have been Fredrik's or Jonas', but he was doing this long before either of them played guitar in Katatonia).

But I think I agree with your line of though and I'm fine with giving credit to Anders when in doubt. :)

I believe I think that their recent albums are a little more different from each other than you do, but I may be in the minority on that anyway.

I take great umbrage at The Promise of Deceit not being listed as a favorite track.  :)

By the way, what is your musician background/what instrument(s) do you play?

Offline Lethean

  • Posts: 4504
Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Night Is the New Day (2009)
« Reply #327 on: January 08, 2023, 07:26:32 PM »
OK 2:07 of Forsaker - I *love* that and glad it was called out. :)

Offline Lethean

  • Posts: 4504
Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Night Is the New Day (2009)
« Reply #328 on: January 08, 2023, 07:29:20 PM »
3:20 ish of Forsaker - is one of my favorite Katatonia moments (and live too); I think Anders rules with whatever he's doing there, and I know it's not some super technical advanced playing, but it's cool.

Offline Lethean

  • Posts: 4504
Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Night Is the New Day (2009)
« Reply #329 on: January 08, 2023, 07:29:39 PM »
Also Nick is still wrong about Forsaker...

Offline LithoJazzoSphere

  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 7917
  • Placid Eruption
Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Night Is the New Day (2009)
« Reply #330 on: January 08, 2023, 07:39:18 PM »
I believe I think that their recent albums are a little more different from each other than you do, but I may be in the minority on that anyway.

I can definitely see differences, and I'm sure I'll find even more of them in the next few weeks than I've previously realized (though I'll probably also find more commonalities than I was aware of as well), I just think by this point their stylistic evolution is greatly compressed compared to earlier albums, where they almost sounded like a different band each time.  If you play DoDS, BMD, DO, and TGCD to someone who has never heard the band before they will probably have their jaw drop when they realize it's the same two dudes doing most of the heavy lifting. 

I take great umbrage at The Promise of Deceit not being listed as a favorite track.  :)

It's like a 4.5+ star track on a near 5.0 star album.  :)

By the way, what is your musician background/what instrument(s) do you play?

Guitar, bass, drums, percussion, keyboards, saxophone, mandolin, plus dabbling in whatever else I feel like, but with less proficiency (vocals [but I hate doing them], violin, harmonica, accordion, recorder, etc).  Just mostly local things and home recordings, I'm too much of a perfectionist to release much of it. 

3:20 ish of Forsaker - is one of my favorite Katatonia moments (and live too); I think Anders rules with whatever he's doing there, and I know it's not some super technical advanced playing, but it's cool.

I think that's just slowly sweeping a wah pedal while picking some dissonant notes. 
« Last Edit: January 08, 2023, 07:51:48 PM by LithoJazzoSphere »

Offline Lethean

  • Posts: 4504
Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Night Is the New Day (2009)
« Reply #331 on: January 08, 2023, 07:53:04 PM »
Liberation is getting repeated.  Also yay for the Anders 0:53, 2:45, and 3:01 mentions and I really like that whole stretch that lasts about a minute starting from 2:25 and then the bass comes in and then the stuff you mentioned and getting really heavy - all the way till the vocals come back and that rules too.

Offline nick_z

  • Posts: 3861
  • Gender: Male
Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Night Is the New Day (2009)
« Reply #332 on: January 08, 2023, 07:56:59 PM »
Also Nick is still wrong about Forsaker...

 :biggrin:


Offline LithoJazzoSphere

  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 7917
  • Placid Eruption
Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Night Is the New Day (2009)
« Reply #333 on: January 08, 2023, 08:04:09 PM »
Yeah, that heavy riff at 3:06 in "Liberation", along with the first big riff in Nevermore's "The River Dragon Has Come", are some of my favorite examples of metal bands playing what could in the wrong hands sound like generic nu-metal, but they make them much more interesting. 

Offline Lethean

  • Posts: 4504
Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Night Is the New Day (2009)
« Reply #334 on: January 08, 2023, 08:30:50 PM »
Ashen -
Quote
I love the triplet guitar lick at 0:49 into the rim click motif.

Reading this when I was copying and pasting to put the notes in order, I had no idea what this was.  Then as I'm listening to the song, I knew exactly what it was when it was coming up, and I love it too.  I couldn't begin to describe this sort of thing to other people, but I appreciate it anyway; sometime consciously and sometimes subconsciously.

Offline Lethean

  • Posts: 4504
Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Night Is the New Day (2009)
« Reply #335 on: January 08, 2023, 08:37:40 PM »
The vocals on this album are just exquisite.  I already thought he was incredible on Viva Emptiness and The Great Cold Distance, but I believe he is even better here.

Offline Lethean

  • Posts: 4504
Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Night Is the New Day (2009)
« Reply #336 on: January 08, 2023, 08:45:21 PM »
I've repeated songs, turned up the volume multiple times, grinned like an idiot, had chills, was in awe, and maybe even had, um, teargas in my eyes during this listen.  Maybe, as Nick mentions, there's not a lot of "urgency..." but maybe there is, it's just in a different way.  I certainly felt my heartbeat like there was urgency.  Or maybe it's intensity... maybe that is a better word.  And not just the heavier parts.  Even a song like Inheritance is an intense listen.  Maybe it's an emotional intensity and heaviness.

1. Night is the New Day
2. Viva Emptiness
3. The Great Cold Distance (2 and 3 maybe even closer now after this thread)
4. Last Fair Deal Gone Down
5. Tonight's Decision
6. Discouraged Ones
7. Dance of December Souls
8. Brave Murder Day

Offline LithoJazzoSphere

  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 7917
  • Placid Eruption
Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Night Is the New Day (2009)
« Reply #337 on: January 08, 2023, 09:00:22 PM »
1:  The Great Cold Distance
2:  Viva Emptiness
3:  Night is the New Day
4:  Last Fair Deal Gone Down
5:  Discouraged Ones
6:  Tonight's Decision
7:  Brave Murder Day
8:  Dance of December Souls

The margin between the top 3 is razor-thin though. 

Offline The Realm

  • Posts: 1466
Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Night Is the New Day (2009)
« Reply #338 on: January 08, 2023, 11:13:24 PM »
Count me as someone else who took a long time to really get into this album. Upon my first few listens I thought Foresaker was the only great track and I was very underwhelmed. However now I love this album. Departer is my favourite song, mainly because it is so different and it just really resonates with me. I do still favour Great Cold Distance and Viva above Night is the New Day but the margin between is very small, so agree with Litho on those rankings.

Good write ups by everyone, I have enjoyed reading all your thoughts.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2023, 03:22:17 PM by The Realm »

Offline billboy73

  • Posts: 405
Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Night Is the New Day (2009)
« Reply #339 on: January 10, 2023, 10:04:36 AM »
Night Is the New Day is the 3rd in a string of perfect/near perfect albums for me.  I agree with this one especially being a grower.  I remember buying this one with several other things and giving it a quick listen.  I remember enjoying it, but pushing it to the side.  After several months with a handful of casual of listens, I finally immersed myself into this album, and it really clicked.  I think this album, might be their most complete package.  Everything about this album works together to set a mood, and a morose atmosphere, starting with the album title.  I had mentioned that Tonight's Decision was my favorite cover art, but Night is the New Day is just a notch below as my 2nd favorite.  The track order feels very well thought out as well, and adds to the whole experience.  The other big piece here is the increased electronics and synths.  These soundscapes really contribute to what makes up Katatonia's darkest record, a beautiful darkness.  Discouraged Ones is close with it's bleak atmosphere, but in a much different way.  It might not be quite as heavy as the last 2 albums, but there are still a several heavy parts on offer.

This album is incredible from start to finish, and Forsaker is another great opener.  The Longest Year is another dark masterpiece.  Onward Into Battle is another highlight and Daniel shines here as well.  Liberation is cool with it's chuggy bounce.  Nephilim is quite dark and unsettling and just behind Day and Then the Shade for my favorite track.  Inheritance is solemn and beautiful.  Departer is such an atmospheric closer.  Everything here just creates such a darkness, and the album flows so well.  For me, this is a record to put on with a glass of bourbon and just get lost into it's world.  Like I said, it just works so well as a whole, complete package.

Some days I want to put this as my number 1, but most days I still hold Viva Emptiness in my top spot.  I think VE just edges Night out, but man I'm splitting hairs here.  Nostalgia might play a little part in that ranking too.  Overall the run of VE - TGCD - Night is an incredible 3 album run that I have at the top of my Katationa album ranking (I'll save my full ranking till the end).
« Last Edit: January 10, 2023, 01:23:54 PM by billboy73 »

Offline TAC

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 75612
  • Gender: Male
  • Arthritic Metal Horns
Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Night Is the New Day (2009)
« Reply #340 on: January 10, 2023, 06:39:15 PM »
The Great Cold Distance


Leaders
Yay..Katatonia music. I like the part at 2:14. The drumming is awesome. Not sure I like the chorus, but the song has a cool vibe.

Deliberation
This song is a grind. Not sure what to say about it.

Soil's Song
I like the title. I can't say the song wins me over but it did get better as it went. I like the cool little outro.

My Twin
This song finished before I realized it.

Consternation
I like the way it started. Didn't love the verses, but this is a lively song. I do like where it goes around 2:40.

Follower
I'm thinking for the first half that this is the worst song so far. It still might be, but the second half does get a lot more interesting.

Rusted
I really liked that first verse. I kind of wished they kept the tune in that pocket. It was really quite enjoyable. That is until they Katatonia'd it up.

Increase
Another lively opening. Can't say I love this.

July
I like the groove on the "So this night belongs to you" a lot. Really cool. Nice drumming on this tune.
Really interesting part at 3:23.

In The White
Not crazy about this...

The Itch
..or this. That mellow part in the middle is so pleasant. Why kill it?

Journey Through Pressure
Kind of a slogfest, but I may be getting fatigued here.

In the course of a typical 4 minute song, they manage to throw quite a bit against the wall. Some of it sticks, and some of it doesn't.
The vocals continue to be a real impediment.
The drumming is excellent, and pretty much all of the songs feature a little part where it gets bombastic with really frantic, but controlled drumming. Feels generally a tad too downtuned for me.
There's just no melody. They are a really challenging listen for me.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline The Realm

  • Posts: 1466
Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Night Is the New Day (2009)
« Reply #341 on: January 10, 2023, 06:50:49 PM »
TAC - I think those comments on The Great Cold Distance are all fair and considered. Katatonia aren't a band for everyone and I can see that they are not really connecting with you - but at least you are trying. Of all my friends that listen to the same overall type of music discussed on this forum I am the only one who loves Katatonia, most everyone else I know feel as you do.

I doubt any album yet to come will change your mind but I enjoy reading your thoughts.

Offline TAC

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 75612
  • Gender: Male
  • Arthritic Metal Horns
Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Night Is the New Day (2009)
« Reply #342 on: January 10, 2023, 07:24:08 PM »
Thanks Realm. I've only heard each album once, but I thought that on this album, there's less variety from song to song than on other albums. Not sure if that's actually true but that how it felt.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline Lethean

  • Posts: 4504
Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Night Is the New Day (2009)
« Reply #343 on: January 10, 2023, 07:42:45 PM »
Night Is the New Day is the 3rd in a string of perfect/near perfect albums for me. I agree with this one especially being a grower.  I remember buying this one with several other things and giving it a quick listen.  I remember enjoying it, but pushing it to the side.  After several months with a handful of casual of listens, I finally immersed myself into this album, and it really clicked.  I think this album, might be their most complete package.  Everything about this album works together to set a mood, and a morose atmosphere, starting with the album title.  I had mentioned that Tonight's Decision was my favorite cover art, but Night is the New Day is just a notch below as my 2nd favorite. 
I agree with all of this.  And the two covers you mentioned would be my favorites of the albums already covered so far.

Quote
The track order feels very well thought out as well, and adds to the whole experience. 
I've read some interviews that they spend a lot of time on the track order.

Quote
The other big piece here is the increased electronics and synths.  These soundscapes really contribute to what makes up Katatonia's darkest record, a beautiful darkness.  Discouraged Ones is close with it's bleak atmosphere, but in a much different way.  It might not be quite as heavy as the last 2 albums, but there are still a several heavy parts on offer.
Just giving a +1 to this as well; beautiful darkness indeed.

Quote
This album is incredible from start to finish, and Forsaker is another great opener.  The Longest Year is another dark masterpiece.  Onward Into Battle is another highlight and Daniel shines here as well.  Liberation is cool with it's chuggy bounce.  Nephilim is quite dark and unsettling and just behind Day and Then the Shade for my favorite track.  Inheritance is solemn and beautiful.  Departer is such an atmospheric closer. 
I'm not sure I could pick just one favorite track.  I think can go with three maybe - Forsaker, Liberation, and The Promise of Deceit. But then I feel like I also should include Onward into Battle and then another and then another... :)

Quote
Everything here just creates such a darkness, and the album flows so well.  For me, this is a record to put on with a glass of bourbon and just get lost into it's world.  Like I said, it just works so well as a whole, complete package.
*Yes.* Except for the bourbon part for me... :)

Quote
Some days I want to put this as my number 1, but most days I still hold Viva Emptiness in my top spot.  I think VE just edges Night out, but man I'm splitting hairs here.  Nostalgia might play a little part in that ranking too.  Overall the run of VE - TGCD - Night is an incredible 3 album run that I have at the top of my Katationa album ranking (I'll save my full ranking till the end).
It's sounding like my rankings of the next three albums will probably not be the norm (at least not on this forum). :)

On the other hand, Night Is the New Day hasn't seemed super popular in other corners so I'm glad most seem to like it here.

Offline Lethean

  • Posts: 4504
Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Night Is the New Day (2009)
« Reply #344 on: January 10, 2023, 07:55:21 PM »
Thanks Realm. I've only heard each album once, but I thought that on this album, there's less variety from song to song than on other albums. Not sure if that's actually true but that how it felt.
I think that might be true of The Great Cold Distance - that there's less variety among the songs.  They probably just won't be your thing, though I definitely do think that these albums need more than one listen.  But since this album seems to be the one casual fans tend to like, and is also a fan favorite, I would have chosen this one to be the one for you to listen to a few times.  Maybe I'll give a different recommendation depending on your comments on the others; maybe something will surprise me.  I wouldn't have guessed you to like The Astonishing, so maybe the album I think you'll like least, you'll like most... (I don't expect that though).

Quote
There's just no melody.
But while I agree with the less variety comment, this is just not true. There's tons of melody; maybe just not melodies that you like. :)

Offline TAC

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 75612
  • Gender: Male
  • Arthritic Metal Horns
Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Night Is the New Day (2009)
« Reply #345 on: January 10, 2023, 08:02:31 PM »
But since this album seems to be the one casual fans tend to like, and is also a fan favorite, I would have chosen this one to be the one for you to listen to a few times.  Maybe I'll give a different recommendation depending on your comments on the others; maybe something will surprise me.  I wouldn't have guessed you to like The Astonishing, so maybe the album I think you'll like least, you'll like most... (I don't expect that though).


To me, it's because I think it's pretty accessible.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline Lethean

  • Posts: 4504
Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Night Is the New Day (2009)
« Reply #346 on: January 10, 2023, 08:09:06 PM »
And you'd prefer less accessible maybe?

Offline TAC

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 75612
  • Gender: Male
  • Arthritic Metal Horns
Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Night Is the New Day (2009)
« Reply #347 on: January 10, 2023, 08:14:18 PM »
Well, I didn't say it was accessible to ME!  :lol
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline nick_z

  • Posts: 3861
  • Gender: Male
Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Night Is the New Day (2009)
« Reply #348 on: January 10, 2023, 08:31:30 PM »

My Twin
This song finished before I realized it.

What is it? Is it because you found it completely unmemorable, or you liked it so much it went by in a flash?  :biggrin:

Offline TAC

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 75612
  • Gender: Male
  • Arthritic Metal Horns
Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Night Is the New Day (2009)
« Reply #349 on: January 10, 2023, 08:34:04 PM »

My Twin
This song finished before I realized it.

What is it? Is it because you found it completely unmemorable, or you liked it so much it went by in a flash?  :biggrin:

I think I started reading something and I drifted off. :lol
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol