Katatonia Discography Discussion: Sky Void of Stars (2023)

[LithoJazzoSphere]

On Spotify the last three tracks of BMD are the Sounds of Decay EP.

https://open.spotify.com/album/1BmtDzGIUGdft38C305STs

"Untrue" doesn't seem to be up on Spotify, but you can hear it here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRJZMz1gEh4

Yeah, Spotify screwed up the track order for the Saw You Drown EP.  "Nerve" and "Saw You Drown" should be flipped and moved below "Instrumental" and "Distrust" from Discouraged Ones.  These albums have been reissued numerous times, so I imagine it's possible some of those are different as well.  I'm not one of those guys who memorizes the track order of each exclusive pressing and the serial number ranges of each. 

https://open.spotify.com/album/4DsY1ikIHXloHrRYT48sDI

This feels like what should be another potentially obvious thing to someone who's been into them as long as I have, but I'm wondering if the shape in the middle of the "O" in the latest logo (and also their current) one is also supposed to be a bird.  I've never been the sort of guy to try and analyze and copy band logos, so I never look that closely.  I might have to investigate that. 

One other small note I meant to put is that Jonas and Mikael both contribute some lyrics for Edge of Sanity's Infernal in this time period, which is obviously from working so closely with Dan.  I continue to enjoy talking about Mikael and Dan as if they're part of the band even though they aren't.  Even more on that later, but let's not get too far ahead of ourselves...

[TAC]

Damn, to drop this update on a Sunday afternoon. I need a whole weekend to get through it. 

[LithoJazzoSphere]

You've got the whole week.    It's not as much as it looks like anyway due to the images and text spacing.  Sites would probably list it as a 5-minute read, maybe 10.  It's the 70-80 minutes to listen to all of it that'll take up time. 

[twosuitsluke]

Just finishing up listening to everything from your post.

I'll have to give it all another listen but more good stuff. There is a massive shift in their sound for that See You Drown EP eh? My biggest takeaway was how much the singer sounds like Robert Smith, but I see you added that in your comments 

I like the sound on the second EP quite a lot, but the harsh vocals on Brave Murder Day are also really good (no surprises there).

[ProfessorPeart]

*I must admit also that it took a number of years of being a fan of theirs before I realized that Jonas' last name is "Renkse" and not "Renske"

Glad to see I'm not the only one. I only put that together in the last year or two. 

[TAC]

OK, just listened to Brave Murder Day. These are my First Listen Impressions.


Brave Murder Day

Brave-I actually like Akerfeldt's vocals here. They're a lot more dissonant than in Opeth where I find them too sharp. I love the steady pace to this. Really nice. Not sure why it had to be 10 minutes though. It would've been perfect at 6:00-6:30ish.

Murder-Starts with a similar beat to Brave. Has some early Black Sabbath pacing in parts. It goes back and forth but I love the faster parts, not that they are fast. Love the snare sound on this.

Day-Electronic drums? Ugh.. Hopefully they're being played and it's not a machine. I don't know that there's not a song here, but I don't like its presentation.

Rainroom- This is pretty cool. I like the part at about 3:50, and the change at 4:40 is nasty.
The double kick here is much more steady than on the previous stuff.

12- Wow, this song is all over the place, but in a good way. Akerfeldt's harsh vocals did feel closer to his Opeth style. Not sure why the difference than the first couple of songs.

Endtime-I'm not sure how I feel about this. It's OK.


It's weird that they would have a "guest" to such a large percentage of the vocals. I actually like Akerfeldt much more here than in Opeth. The drumming seems to have tightened up quite a bit. Much more steady.

[LithoJazzoSphere]

It's weird that they would have a "guest" to such a large percentage of the vocals.

Jonas had been having vocal issues trying to handle the harsh vocals, and Mike was much more comfortable with it.  But they weren't ready to completely change musical styles just yet, so they still wanted harsh vocals more in line with the debut. 

[TAC]

Jonas just hadn't grown into the vocals yet. Did they consider bringing in a long term solution rather than a guest? Did they tour for this, and if so, how were the harsh vocals handled?

[LithoJazzoSphere]

Maybe he could have figured something out eventually, but it seems like his challenges performing harsh vocals just kept coming up, so he finally stuck to cleans.  I know Nick Holmes from Paradise Lost had similar issues where he felt his harsh vocal technique was harming himself, so he gave them up for awhile, although unlike Jonas, he came back to them eventually for more extensive usage.  The mechanics of safer harsh vocal delivery I don't think was well-understood at all at this point, I don't think there were nearly the number of teachers for it like there are now.  We'll probably get into this more for the next album as well, which is an all-clean vocal performance from Jonas.  Being friends with Mike probably just made it convenient to have him perform.  I think they ultimately just wanted a change in musical direction.  As for live, well...you must have skimmed the earlier posts.   

*The BMD tour was the first one to travel outside of Sweden, where they took In The Woods and Voice of Destruction with them.  Jonas was a bit more comfortable with vocals at this point and wanted to perform them instead of drums...Their tour bus did not have heat, and this eventually took a toll on Jonas' voice, making him too sick to even speak, necessitating Anders would have to perform vocals instead. 

[ProfessorPeart]

I knew I had seen it somewhere so I went looking. Jonas blew out his voice doing the growls. I swear I read somewhere that he was ordered by a doctor to stop which is why Mike was brought in. I did find this little snippet:

MB: So around Discouraged Ones, you dropped a lot of the death-doom elements that seemed to really put you on the map. Did you just get tired of the style, or was it something that evolved naturally?

JR: I think it’s a combination, actually. I wasn’t really comfortable doing the death metal vocals anymore, because I have some throat problems, and that’s why we used our friend Mikael [Åkerfeldt] from Opeth. He sang on the second album, just because I couldn’t do it. So when it was time for our third album, Discouraged Ones, we said “Let’s just skip the growling thing, and go for a more normal singing voice.” I wasn’t really comfortable doing it in the beginning, but I really liked the idea of it, so I sort of adapted to it and did my best and I think I’ve been evolving ever since. For us it was an important step to take, because you could start fooling around with different song structures and give more depth to the music.

[Lethean]

Brave Murder Day remains my least favorite of their studio albums, but I think there's a lot of good stuff in it.  Unlike pretty much everyone else, I'm not really into Mikael Åkerfeldt's harsh vocals.  But I do agree with TAC that I prefer it here than with Opeth, and I also enjoy his voice on the first couple songs more

Some quick thoughts:
Brave has really grown on me a lot over time.  Some of that might be due to hearing it more often since it's on a live album.  But I think it's a great song.

I love Day.  Maybe it's not award winning singing, but it doesn't need it.  I love the atmosphere of the song and the lyrics are perfect. 

I think part of the reason they had so little material prepared was because Anders had booked the studio before even talking to the other guys to see if they wanted to continue.  He had written some stuff more along the lines of Scarlet Heavens but Jonas didn't want to go in that direction.  When they talked they discovered that they'd both been listening to Slowdive on their own.  Anders feels they don't get credit for "creating" extreme shoegaze even though Brave Murder Day came before a lot of bands that went on to be recognized for it.  I think it's pretty cool that they wrote songs each night so they'd have something to record the next day, and came up with something as good as this. 

 I absolutely love Saw You Drown and Quiet World

twosuitsluke - I'm pretty sure the EP songs are the same whether you get them as bonus tracks or from the EPs themselves.  I can't swear to it, but I'm pretty confident about it.

[LithoJazzoSphere]

BTW, Decibel magazine has a feature they do called Hall of Fame, where they include a sizeable article on iconic albums, interviewing all of the key people from the recording.  Chris Dick did an article/interviews on BMD for them, but only the first couple paragraphs seem to be accessible for free online.  If someone happens to have old back issues of theirs (I think it was done in '07) or money to blow, those articles are generally well worth it, I have collections of them in their Precious Metal series that compiles them, but unfortunately that is not one included in those yet. 

[TAC]

Sounds Of Decay

Nowhere- I don't love Akerfeldt here. I don't think the vocals fit the music at all. Yes the drums have a fuller sound. I'm not sold on Jonas as a drummer yet. I like the instrumental interlude. The vocals seem less offensive after that section.

At Last- Wait..didn't I just hear this song?

Inside The Fall- Way too slow for me to enjoy.



Probably my least favorite thing I've heard so far.

[LithoJazzoSphere]

I'm not sold on Jonas as a drummer yet.

I don't think Jonas was sold on Jonas as a drummer. 

[Lethean]

I'm not sold on Jonas as a drummer yet.

I don't think Jonas was sold on Jonas as a drummer. 

I love how he says "yet."

[twosuitsluke]

Rainroom- the change at 4:40 is nasty.

On my second listen through. This has to be my favourite moment in any Katatonia song at this point 

[Lethean]

I'm glad Litho is doing this week and next because my brain feels really scattered. 

But I can read everyone else's thoughts and say "me too" where I agree.

I like the Rainroom transition that TAC mentioned, and I really like the clean vocal part leading up to it. 

I've been playing Day in my head a bit the last few days for comfort.

[Zantera]

Didn't get to take part in this thread last week but I've revisited the albums - these first two I haven't listened to in quite some time (same with Discouraged Ones and Tonight's Decision), and this thread felt like a good motivation to get refreshed on the few Katatonia albums I was unsure about.

Dance of December Souls - It's a pretty decent album and not a bad debut album but possibly a bit overhyped? Has some reputation around it and while I enjoyed checking it out again, it just doesn't quite hold up to most of their latter output IMO. It's probably in my bottom 3 Katatonia albums but I'd probably place it over City Burials and maybe Tonight's Decision (I need to revisit that one to say for sure). I think the album title is pretty rad and the purple look of the cover gives this a certain 'vibe' that I like, but listening to the album itself, few moments stood out as amazing and it was mostly just good.

Brave Murder Day - Being a huge Opeth fan definitely puts a + down for this album and I guess generally speaking this is usually considered the band's best album (I would say this or The Great Cold Distance depending on the crowd you ask). It's a fantastic album and as an overall experience I would say it's better than most of their other albums, however it actually doesn't feel that much like a Katatonia album. So while I would give this a higher individual rating than some of their latter albums, those actually feel more like Katatonia albums and have Jonas in more of a key role vocally and I might revisit those albums more when I want my dosage of Katatonia. Brave Murder Day while awesome gets a bit forgotten because of Mikael doing most vocals and because it feels so different to the rest.

[The Realm]

Brave Murder Day - I am not a big fan of this album. As I previously mentioned I first got into Katatonia with Tonight's Decision and for a long time I never went back to the earlier albums. At that time I also hadn't discovered Opeth (who I equally love now) and I just wasn't that interested in the growling vocals as part of Katatonia's music. I did just give the album a listen and there are some really nice moments, although I find it hard to believe any serious Katatonia fan could say this is their best album? I enjoy Akerfeldts vocals, they are very similar to his work on the Opeth album My Arms, Your Hearse, which I think was released at a similar time. To me Akerfeldts growls became much better from Blackwater Park onwards.

[LithoJazzoSphere]

although I find it hard to believe any serious Katatonia fan could say this is their best album?

There is a fairly sizeable chunk of extreme metal fans who like the first two for being quite unique in the death/black metal landscape, but dismiss anything after them as boring alt rock.  I've run into quite a few of them online over the years.  It probably doesn't break down perfectly this way, but as far as I can tell it's more black metal fans that like the first album for its unique melodic style, blending of black/doom/death influences, keyboards, the relative rawness and such.  The sophomore album draws a combination of Opeth and/or Akerfeldt fans, or just fans of growled vocals in general, shoegaze fans, or some who just appreciate the rarity of the style experimented with on that album. 

I was thinking over the last few days that Celtic Frost/Triptykon is another impossible to classify band that draws from as large or larger a pool of genres than Katatonia does, with a similar less technical, darker and atmospheric approach. 

[twosuitsluke]

although I find it hard to believe any serious Katatonia fan could say this is their best album?

There is a fairly sizeable chunk of extreme metal fans who like the first two for being quite unique in the death/black metal landscape, but dismiss anything after them as boring alt rock.  I've run into quite a few of them online over the years.  It probably doesn't break down perfectly this way, but as far as I can tell it's more black metal fans that like the first album for its unique melodic style, blending of black/doom/death influences, keyboards, the relative rawness and such.  The sophomore album draws a combination of Opeth and/or Akerfeldt fans, or just fans of growled vocals in general, shoegaze fans, or some who just appreciate the rarity of the style experimented with on that album. 

I was thinking over the last few days that Celtic Frost/Triptykon is another impossible to classify band that draws from as large or larger a pool of genres than Katatonia does, with a similar less technical, darker and atmospheric approach.

It's still too early for me to say, but I wouldn't be surprised if I ended up loving their early stuff more than anything else.

[Lethean]

although I find it hard to believe any serious Katatonia fan could say this is their best album?

There is a fairly sizeable chunk of extreme metal fans who like the first two for being quite unique in the death/black metal landscape, but dismiss anything after them as boring alt rock.  I've run into quite a few of them online over the years.

I have as well. I feel for those fans, that they are missing out on so much. I imagine it was quite the shock for a lot of their existing fans when they dropped the harsh vocals.

It probably doesn't break down perfectly this way, but as far as I can tell it's more black metal fans that like the first album for its unique melodic style, blending of black/doom/death influences, keyboards, the relative rawness and such.  The sophomore album draws a combination of Opeth and/or Akerfeldt fans, or just fans of growled vocals in general, shoegaze fans, or some who just appreciate the rarity of the style experimented with on that album. 

I was thinking over the last few days that Celtic Frost/Triptykon is another impossible to classify band that draws from as large or larger a pool of genres than Katatonia does, with a similar less technical, darker and atmospheric approach.

I've seen Triptykon live a couple times and thought they were kind of hypnotic and enjoyed their set.  I never went further to check out their albums, but it's interesting that you mentioned them.

Will listen to everything again today. (Even though I really want to listen to their setlist over and over again.)  I think I'll listen to Sounds of Decay first because I always listen to it after Brave Murder Day and at that point am usually a little tired of the harsh vocals. 

[nick_z]

I was away for a few days, and I just wanted to post a couple of thoughts on Brave Murder Day and what it means for me in the context of Katatonia's discography...

Well, first off, I LOVE the album. I think it's just such a unique record. Sure, it can be generally categorized as "death/doom" and there is nothing wrong with that. But there's something about it that sets it apart. I'd say it's mostly Anders' approach to the riffing - those repeating and "cascading" motifs, together with the steady tempos. That, to me, really becomes a trademark of Katatonia from this album on...even though most of what comes after BMD is quite different, there are many traces of the Katatonia "riff" in songs scattered throughout their discography. Speaking of BMD, it's certainly something that sets this apart from Dance... While their debut was already kinda "different", the more linear song structures here really are a step in a new direction. In particular, Brave, Murder and Rainroom are, imo, the defining songs of this album.

Back in 1996, when BMD was released, one of my best friends and music "buddy"  got it - he was into more extreme music than me, at the time. Copied it on a tape for me. He was pretty excited about this one, as it sounded quite different from anything we'd heard before. On a superficial level, yes, it didn't seem like some of the songs needed to last that long. But, in a way, that added to that almost "otherwordly" desperation they conveyed. Well, that's what we thought as 19-year old kids, at least  It was strange but quite powerful. Again, those riffs - so sad, but at the same time almost uplifting.

I tend to be a bit wary of the "you had to be there" argument when I see it. Often it comes across as "you just can't understand the same way I do how deep and meaningful this is "  I worry I'm doing the same here. However, there really isn't anything particularly deep here...it's just that I think at the time Katatonia really did create something pretty unique for the genre. And then of course proceeded to move away from it, almost immediately 

As for where BMD stands for me: it has a very special place in my music journey, for sure. It still stands very tall among Katatonia records, even just for that reason, but also (and most importantly) because, well, I love the music in it. That said, Katatonia is a very different band now, and I do prefer a good number of their subsequent albums to this one...but we will get to that soon enough 

[Lethean]

I was away for a few days, and I just wanted to post a couple of thoughts on Brave Murder Day and what it means for me in the context of Katatonia's discography...

Well, first off, I LOVE the album. I think it's just such a unique record. Sure, it can be generally categorized as "death/doom" and there is nothing wrong with that. But there's something about it that sets it apart. I'd say it's mostly Anders' approach to the riffing - those repeating and "cascading" motifs, together with the steady tempos. That, to me, really becomes a trademark of Katatonia from this album on...even though most of what comes after BMD is quite different, there are many traces of the Katatonia "riff" in songs scattered throughout their discography. Speaking of BMD, it's certainly something that sets this apart from Dance... While their debut was already kinda "different", the more linear song structures here really are a step in a new direction. In particular, Brave, Murder and Rainroom are, imo, the defining songs of this album.

Back in 1996, when BMD was released, one of my best friends and music "buddy"  got it - he was into more extreme music than me, at the time. Copied it on a tape for me. He was pretty excited about this one, as it sounded quite different from anything we'd heard before. On a superficial level, yes, it didn't seem like some of the songs needed to last that long. But, in a way, that added to that almost "otherwordly" desperation they conveyed. Well, that's what we thought as 19-year old kids, at least  It was strange but quite powerful. Again, those riffs - so sad, but at the same time almost uplifting.

I tend to be a bit wary of the "you had to be there" argument when I see it. Often it comes across as "you just can't understand the same way I do how deep and meaningful this is "  I worry I'm doing the same here. However, there really isn't anything particularly deep here...it's just that I think at the time Katatonia really did create something pretty unique for the genre. And then of course proceeded to move away from it, almost immediately 

As for where BMD stands for me: it has a very special place in my music journey, for sure. It still stands very tall among Katatonia records, even just for that reason, but also (and most importantly) because, well, I love the music in it. That said, Katatonia is a very different band now, and I do prefer a good number of their subsequent albums to this one...but we will get to that soon enough 

The bolded statement... That's what Katatonia is like for me, except for the "almost" part. 

I agree with you on the length of the songs; I think it does deepen the impact by having them longer.

"You had to be there" - I've been irritated by people saying that in the past but I don't take what you're saying in that way. It totally makes sense. 

Thanks for describing your experience with it.  At the time, did you try to get Dance of December Souls and their EPs right away after liking Brave Murder Day so much?  Or did that come later?

[christoffer81]

...

[LithoJazzoSphere]

so sad, but at the same time almost uplifting.

The bolded statement... That's what Katatonia is like for me, except for the "almost" part. 

I think it can be a form of emotional catharsis.  I listen to a ton of miserable music, but I think it makes me happy, and I don't believe I'm a depressing person.  I know Steven Wilson has talked about listening to and playing sad music being a way to channel those feelings in a more productive fashion, so he doesn't have to be as negative of a person as he might otherwise be. 

[Lethean]

so sad, but at the same time almost uplifting.

The bolded statement... That's what Katatonia is like for me, except for the "almost" part. 

I think it can be a form of emotional catharsis.  I listen to a ton of miserable music, but I think it makes me happy, and I don't believe I'm a depressing person.  I know Steven Wilson has talked about listening to and playing sad music being a way to channel those feelings in a more productive fashion, so he doesn't have to be as negative of a person as he might otherwise be.

I've said something similar when describing Katatonia to other people. That I don't consider myself to be a dark person and I don't think people know me would describe me as that way. I don't listen to them because I want to be depressed or sad. When I listen to them, and I'm already sad, or otherwise distressed, it helps. And if I'm already okay, then I'm somehow better after listening to them.

[LithoJazzoSphere]

And I don't know if there's a correlation or if it's just my small sample size of interactions, but some of the most cantankerous people I know listen to a lot of gentle and/or upbeat music.  Then again, some of the most negative people I see online listen to a lot of the most abrasive extreme metal, so who knows. 

[nick_z]

Thanks for describing your experience with it.  At the time, did you try to get Dance of December Souls and their EPs right away after liking Brave Murder Day so much?  Or did that come later?

Yep, I did get Dance of December Souls shortly after I listened to BMD...not the previous EPs, as I wasn't necessarily aware of them at the time. I liked Dance...a lot too, although I felt the band had made a noticeable progression from there to BMD (which is pretty much the way I still feel). Little did I know there were plenty more "surprises" in store...

[nick_z]

Oh, and since we are still on Brave Murder Day...

In case you guys don't know them, the band Rapture (from Finland), now defunct, did manage to credibly follow the path set by that album. Their debut ("Futile"), in particular, is very, very good and a recommended listen. I actually sent Luke one song from that album for his current roulette.

To give you an additional idea of their, um, appreciation for the BMD sound, here is a song from their second record (Songs for the Withering):

"Gallows"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39v2HqW1hxw

(this is a fan-made video...the album is not on streaming platforms for some reason)

Also this:
"Transfixion"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrI95ayCixA

[LithoJazzoSphere]

Oh, and since we are still on Brave Murder Day...

In case you guys don't know them, the band Rapture (from Finland), now defunct, did manage to credibly follow the path set by that album. Their debut ("Futile"), in particular, is very, very good and a recommended listen.

Yeah, I like them a lot, but need to sink more time into their albums.  The whole melodic death/doom scene that spawned from there is pretty great.  My favorite who sound kind of like a mix of Katatonia and Opeth of that era is Daylight Dies.  Hard to believe they're not Nordic. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8d77gUrHQU

[TAC]

Saw You Drown

Saw You Drown- Kind of gloomy, but pretty harmless track. It has a nice sound to it.

Nerve- Opening riff reminded me a bit of Nirvana. The vocal is horrendous in the verses. It does improve a bit for the following sections.

Quiet World-I was really worried when this started, but it kind of won me over by the end. It's quite atmospheric.

Scarlet Heavens- The first minute intro sounds like some 6th graders trying to play a Rush song. Kind of a gothy vocal. Jonas still seems to be looking for his place, vocally.



I thought Saw Your Drown and Nerve had a real understated Nirvana feel, obviously not vocally. Quiet World took a while to get there and once I got there....it ended.

Not sure I was crazy about Scarlet Heavens. It just feels like this band isn't ready yet. Kind of like high schoolers making a demo in their garage.

[LithoJazzoSphere]

If you compare their '91 demos to how they've sounded in the past decade, I'm not sure any band has changed more incrementally and drastically.  Maybe Ulver.  Katatonia has been far more gradual and linear though. 

[nick_z]

Saw You Drown

Saw You Drown- Kind of gloomy, but pretty harmless track. It has a nice sound to it.

Nerve- Opening riff reminded me a bit of Nirvana. The vocal is horrendous in the verses. It does improve a bit for the following sections.

Uh-oh Tim, this doesn't bode too too well for your appreciation of the next album (Discouraged Ones), since both these songs are on it  The EP was sort of previewing it...this thread will get to it soon.

Scarlet Heavens- The first minute intro sounds like some 6th graders trying to play a Rush song. Kind of a gothy vocal. Jonas still seems to be looking for his place, vocally.

I thought you enjoyed it better on your first pass, last week...? I believe Lethean had listed it then, since this is a song they'd written earlier.

[TAC]

I didn't listen to it last week when it was first mentioned. I don't think I did.