Author Topic: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Sky Void of Stars (2023)  (Read 22632 times)

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Offline Lethean

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Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Tonight's Decision (1999)
« Reply #175 on: November 23, 2022, 07:22:23 PM »
Plus there's old live video in my write up, and you should totally watch it. :)

Oh, I haven't commented on that...I haven't watched the whole thing yet, but it's such a cool document of that era! Didn't know it existed  :)

Yeah there's so little from back then. It's really cool to have that entire set.

Offline billboy73

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Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Tonight's Decision (1999)
« Reply #176 on: November 25, 2022, 11:30:22 AM »
Okay, Tonight's Decision.  The first thing I'll point out is that I love the cover art, and it is my favorite Katatonia album cover, out of a pretty stellar catalog of covers.  I bought the vinyl just because I love the cover art so much. 

Now, to the album itself.  I agree that this album and Discouraged Ones are linked together, but quite different.  The production is a big factor in this.  The drumming is a lot more competent (even with Dan not knowing the songs very well), and the guitars are much warmer and lively than before.  The songs feel much more fleshed out, and there is not much of that hypnotic, repetitive riffing that was found on DO and BMD.  There is clearly still a darkness to the record, but the cleaner production makes this record feel quite different from DO's murky sonics.  There is still some metallic riffing to be found, but even more of those alternative influences have crept in.  Jonas' vocals play a part in the difference too.  He obviously made a big leap in his cleans from DO, but also the vocal melodies are more dynamic and there are more background vocals to accent.

I really enjoy this album and all the songs on it, although I probably have the hardest time ranking it in their discography.  For My Demons is a great opener and the solid run continues from there.  The other standouts are In Death A Song, Right Into The Bliss, Strained, A Darkness Coming, Black Session, and No Devotion.

Offline ProfessorPeart

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Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Tonight's Decision (1999)
« Reply #177 on: November 25, 2022, 12:13:25 PM »
Speaking on the live aesthetic of the band, the first time I saw them was when they opened for Opeth on the Heritage tour. Jonas was clearly in his panic mode as he stood still the whole show with his hair completely obscuring his face. The rest of the band more than made up for his lack of energy. This was when Daniel and Per were still in the band.

I then saw them a few years ago on their headline run through the US with the current lineup and Jonas was a different person altogether. Very chatty and the whole band was animated and on fire. It was an awesome show. My buddy who didn't know much about them came away really impressed by the show.
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Offline Lethean

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Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Tonight's Decision (1999)
« Reply #178 on: November 25, 2022, 01:11:53 PM »
I saw them on that same tour, and he absolutely did not just stand there.  But I have that show as part of my Night is the New Day writeup so I'll elaborate more in a few weeks. :)

Offline Lethean

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Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Tonight's Decision (1999)
« Reply #179 on: November 25, 2022, 01:22:28 PM »
Okay, Tonight's Decision.  The first thing I'll point out is that I love the cover art, and it is my favorite Katatonia album cover, out of a pretty stellar catalog of covers.  I bought the vinyl just because I love the cover art so much. 
I think it's my third favorite cover.  It's really stunning and maybe I should do the same with the vinyl's.  I have a couple just because of the package they were in but I don't have a record player so I usually don't bother.

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Now, to the album itself.  I agree that this album and Discouraged Ones are linked together, but quite different.  The production is a big factor in this.  The drumming is a lot more competent (even with Dan not knowing the songs very well), and the guitars are much warmer and lively than before.  The songs feel much more fleshed out, and there is not much of that hypnotic, repetitive riffing that was found on DO and BMD.  There is clearly still a darkness to the record, but the cleaner production makes this record feel quite different from DO's murky sonics.  There is still some metallic riffing to be found, but even more of those alternative influences have crept in.  Jonas' vocals play a part in the difference too.  He obviously made a big leap in his cleans from DO, but also the vocal melodies are more dynamic and there are more background vocals to accent.
Regarding the bolded - I'm glad I'm not the only one that feels that way.  Maybe it's as simple as Jonas' vocals, while there's a definite improvement from one to the other, still being so different from how they'd eventually end up.  But I totally agree with what you've said about the differences, yet I still always think of them together.

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I really enjoy this album and all the songs on it, although I probably have the hardest time ranking it in their discography.  For My Demons is a great opener and the solid run continues from there.  The other standouts are In Death A Song, Right Into The Bliss, Strained, A Darkness Coming, Black Session, and No Devotion.

For me, I do like the ones that come after better, but yeah, I like it way better than I thought I would upon hearing it the first time.

Offline LithoJazzoSphere

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Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Tonight's Decision (1999)
« Reply #180 on: November 25, 2022, 01:46:14 PM »
Jonas was clearly in his panic mode as he stood still the whole show with his hair completely obscuring his face. The rest of the band more than made up for his lack of energy.

This is one of the sorts of things that make me hesitant to recommend them as a live band.  Fans, especially superfans, might be more lenient, but for non-fans that would be unacceptable and ruin the show for them.  But Jonas is a one of a kind guy, and you have to accept that you're gonna get some bad nights like that.  His pitch is also inconsistent at times live, so he for me he just comes across so much better in the studio when he can take his time, like we'll get to on later albums.

Offline Lethean

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Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Tonight's Decision (1999)
« Reply #181 on: November 25, 2022, 02:20:39 PM »
Resisting the temptation to just post about that show now... :P

So, um.. album rankings:
1. Tonight's Decision
2. Discouraged Ones
3. Dance of December Souls
4. Brave Murder Day

Album covers:
1. Tonight's Decision
2. Discouraged Ones
3. Brave Murder Day
4. Dance of December Souls

Offline LithoJazzoSphere

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Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Tonight's Decision (1999)
« Reply #182 on: November 25, 2022, 09:13:21 PM »
Resisting the temptation to just post about that show now... :P

So, um.. album rankings:

Yeah, you're on a live high, I get it.  :)

I'm probably gonna wait an album or two to update rankings, I don't think enough is going to change with one extra one. 

Offline Zantera

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Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Tonight's Decision (1999)
« Reply #183 on: November 26, 2022, 06:49:11 AM »
I have a similar experience with Katatonia live, saw them open for PT on the Incident tour and this was my first time getting exposed to the band and Jonas just stood there and it wasn't great. In fact it was one of those "Boy it can only go up from here" and then PT killed it. But I got into Katatonia after that through their albums and when I saw them live a few years later (Dead End Kings tour I believe) it was really good and Jonas was a different person and the energy/sound was just a lot better.

But I think I just attributed it to the first time being 'opening act syndrome' because in my experience when you see a band as the headliner of their own tour they usually go out with more confidence and put on a better show because they know people are there for them, but when they're the opening act you sometimes get those slightly bad performances because they know most people aren't there for them so it kinda manifests in their performance.

Offline Lethean

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Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Tonight's Decision (1999)
« Reply #184 on: November 28, 2022, 03:39:07 PM »
How's everyone (TAC, Luke) doing with Tonight's Decision? :)

Online TAC

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Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Tonight's Decision (1999)
« Reply #185 on: November 28, 2022, 03:47:19 PM »
I was wicked busy all weekend. I'll try and get to it tonight. Don't hold the thread up for me, though.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline LithoJazzoSphere

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Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Tonight's Decision (1999)
« Reply #186 on: November 29, 2022, 11:18:01 AM »
I wanted to give at least a week inbetween anyway, especially with the holidays last week.  I've had a draft of the next slice of releases ready for a few days, I just need to do a bit more research and probably post it tomorrow or the next day. 

Online TAC

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Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Tonight's Decision (1999)
« Reply #187 on: November 29, 2022, 03:17:33 PM »
OK, I finally got to Tonight's Decision...

Here are my First Listen Impressions..

OK...


For My Demons- Reminds me of a softly sung Nirvana song. It's ok. Sems to just be there.

I Am Nothing- This has a great chorus. I dig this song.

In Death, A Song- This starts off with a little pace. It needs a stronger vocal though. I like the breakdown at 3:14. Love the musical line under the chorus vocals. Overall, a decent tune.

Had To (Leave)- This song really tested my patience. I like where it went at 3:07.

This Punishment- Really cool and atmospheric. The awful vocals kind of fit. Kind of..

Right Into The Bliss-This has a great intro. Most of this is actually pretty decent, but those verses make it practically unlistenable.

No Good Can Come Of This- The intro riff reminds me a little of Rush's Time And Motion. Musically, a harmless, even decent song, but the vocals..

Strained-Pretty nice song. I love the line "I'd like to try and live my life again." That's really interesting.

A Darkness Coming- Up until the 2:30 mark, I was thinking this was easily the best song I've heard in this thread. The solo is awesome. But I'm still trying to figure out what the hell they were thinking between the two parts. yeah, great tune, but that section threw me off.

Nightmares By The Sea- Has a Nirvana feel. I don't have much to say about it.

Black Session- Four minutes too long.

No Devotion- Something with a little pace. Some cool parts though.

Fractured- How did this not make the album? I even dig the hidden track.



I hear Nivana again, and some riffy 90's Rush. I definitely like the Gothy feel at times too. The drumming is pretty solid, but it's a bit too much in the background, performance wise, not sonically.

The vocals are....DREADFUL. I mean, it's like some teenage kid rambling and mumbling into the mike while his school chum friends jam in his basement.

Other than the occasional Gothic nod, I am really struggling to latch onto anything. They are the antithesis of everything I like in my music.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline Lethean

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Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Tonight's Decision (1999)
« Reply #188 on: November 29, 2022, 03:57:49 PM »
OK, I finally got to Tonight's Decision...


This Punishment- Really cool and atmospheric. The awful vocals kind of fit. Kind of..

 :lol

Quote
No Good Can Come Of This- The intro riff reminds me a little of Rush's Time And Motion. Musically, a harmless, even decent song, but the vocals..
I've never thought about that before - I'll have to listen to them together.

Quote
Strained-Pretty nice song. I love the line "I'd like to try and live my life again." That's really interesting.
I love that line as well, and the lyrics really contribute to making this one of my favorite songs on the album.

Quote
A Darkness Coming- Up until the 2:30 mark, I was thinking this was easily the best song I've heard in this thread. The solo is awesome. But I'm still trying to figure out what the hell they were thinking between the two parts. yeah, great tune, but that section threw me off.
I like it that way.  I also think it's pretty much the best song in this thread; though I do like many of the others as well.  This one is really haunting.

Quote
No Devotion- Something with a little pace. Some cool parts though.

Fractured- How did this not make the album? I even dig the hidden track.
I thought that about both of these tracks.  Their bonus tracks are always as good as anything else they do.

Quote
The vocals are....DREADFUL. I mean, it's like some teenage kid rambling and mumbling into the mike while his school chum friends jam in his basement.
Do you like the vocals less on this album than on Discouraged Ones?  Because I think there's been some improvement.  Or maybe they're just starting to get to you?  Hang in there - they're a lot better on the next one and then after that they're pretty awesome (imo) and I imagine you'll at least find them listenable.

Quote
Other than the occasional Gothic nod, I am really struggling to latch onto anything. They are the antithesis of everything I like in my music.

I appreciate you hanging in there and participating in this.  Your track by track thoughts seem a little more positive than this last bit, but I think that makes sense and could see myself doing the same with certain bands.  Song by song I could like stuff here and there but the overall impression could be less favorable.

Online TAC

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Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Tonight's Decision (1999)
« Reply #189 on: November 29, 2022, 04:07:18 PM »

Do you like the vocals less on this album than on Discouraged Ones? 


I'd have to reread my post. Off the top of my head, I really don't remember. It was one listen a week and a half ago. I can't imagine they'd be worse than this though.




Your track by track thoughts seem a little more positive than this last bit, but I think that makes sense and could see myself doing the same with certain bands.  Song by song I could like stuff here and there but the overall impression could be less favorable.

I write these literally as I'm listening. I go into each song trying to find something to like, rather than something I don't. There are a number of cool bits here and there, but yeah, they ultimately all fall under the unbrella I cast at the end.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline nick_z

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Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Tonight's Decision (1999)
« Reply #190 on: November 29, 2022, 04:28:55 PM »

Do you like the vocals less on this album than on Discouraged Ones? 


I'd have to reread my post. Off the top of my head, I really don't remember. It was one listen a week and a half ago. I can't imagine they'd be worse than this though.

Not to speak for Tim, but my take on Jonas' vocals here vs. on Discouraged Ones kinda goes along with my take on the music. In many ways, both the music and the vocals improved on Tonight's Decision, but because the songs now are going into a more elaborate/"rock" direction, it almost feels the standards we hold them to are a bit heightened too. Or at least that's how I feel. The inconsistencies and the flaws are "easier" to spot. Discouraged Ones was such a one-of-a-kind record, with its dejected mood and all, that those vocals and the bare-bones instrumentation worked just right for me.


Offline nick_z

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Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Tonight's Decision (1999)
« Reply #191 on: November 29, 2022, 04:34:08 PM »

No Devotion- Something with a little pace. Some cool parts though.

Fractured- How did this not make the album? I even dig the hidden track.
I thought that about both of these tracks.  Their bonus tracks are always as good as anything else they do.


Yep, that's so true. SO many great B-sides scattered all over. In that, they remind me a bit of Paradise Lost.

Something that might intrigue you, Tim - I don't remember exactly when they recorded it (almost sure it's later, so it'll come up further down the road), but they also have a cover of Priest's When The Night Comes Down...I found it fits them quite well...

Online TAC

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Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Tonight's Decision (1999)
« Reply #192 on: November 29, 2022, 04:37:30 PM »
Something that might intrigue you, Tim - I don't remember exactly when they recorded it (almost sure it's later, so it'll come up further down the road), but they also have a cover of Priest's When The Night Comes Down...I found it fits them quite well...

Cool!
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline The Realm

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Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Tonight's Decision (1999)
« Reply #193 on: November 29, 2022, 05:23:22 PM »
Something that might intrigue you, Tim - I don't remember exactly when they recorded it (almost sure it's later, so it'll come up further down the road), but they also have a cover of Priest's When The Night Comes Down...I found it fits them quite well...

Cool!

I love the Katatonia cover of When The Night Comes Down, it is awesome.

Offline Lethean

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Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Tonight's Decision (1999)
« Reply #194 on: November 29, 2022, 06:15:03 PM »

Do you like the vocals less on this album than on Discouraged Ones? 


I'd have to reread my post. Off the top of my head, I really don't remember. It was one listen a week and a half ago. I can't imagine they'd be worse than this though.

Not to speak for Tim, but my take on Jonas' vocals here vs. on Discouraged Ones kinda goes along with my take on the music. In many ways, both the music and the vocals improved on Tonight's Decision, but because the songs now are going into a more elaborate/"rock" direction, it almost feels the standards we hold them to are a bit heightened too. Or at least that's how I feel. The inconsistencies and the flaws are "easier" to spot. Discouraged Ones was such a one-of-a-kind record, with its dejected mood and all, that those vocals and the bare-bones instrumentation worked just right for me.

That totally makes sense.  I think the vocals are ok enough for me to enjoy the album, but I've also had a lot more time with it and time to absorb the lyrics, etc.

Offline nick_z

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Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Tonight's Decision (1999)
« Reply #195 on: November 29, 2022, 06:30:26 PM »

That totally makes sense.  I think the vocals are ok enough for me to enjoy the album, but I've also had a lot more time with it and time to absorb the lyrics, etc.

I'm 100% with you on that. Jonas' vocals were never a problem for me, even at the time. I think it was in part because there were several bands I liked in the mid to late 90s - with a sound in the general vicinity of this, some more "extreme", some less - where the vocals were not really the main, um, selling point. To me it was more the general package, the mood, and the goosebump-factor I was looking for.

One example - the Italian band Novembre (I recently sent a song of theirs in Luke's roulette!  :biggrin:). They actually were relatively close buddies with that Swedish scene, with Dan Swano producing their early stuff and (I think) being friends with the guys in Katatonia and Opeth. Anyway, they were releasing albums around the same time we are talking about here. Their music for me was fantastic  - just a stellar combo of dark, death, doom (and some black too, at the very beginning). The vocals...well, as Luke can confirm, not their strong suit, especially the cleans (although they did get better in time!). But, given the genre, I didn't care, really. I didn't have to force myself to like them, I just thought they worked fine with the music.

Offline Lethean

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Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Tonight's Decision (1999)
« Reply #196 on: November 29, 2022, 08:43:04 PM »

That totally makes sense.  I think the vocals are ok enough for me to enjoy the album, but I've also had a lot more time with it and time to absorb the lyrics, etc.

I'm 100% with you on that. Jonas' vocals were never a problem for me, even at the time. I think it was in part because there were several bands I liked in the mid to late 90s - with a sound in the general vicinity of this, some more "extreme", some less - where the vocals were not really the main, um, selling point. To me it was more the general package, the mood, and the goosebump-factor I was looking for.
I can see that.  I don't think I would have given any of that stuff much of my attention at the time.  But who knows; I hadn't even discovered DT yet.  I certainly did have to get used to the vocals coming at it backwards from Night is the New Day and Dead End Kings.

Quote
One example - the Italian band Novembre (I recently sent a song of theirs in Luke's roulette!  :biggrin:). They actually were relatively close buddies with that Swedish scene, with Dan Swano producing their early stuff and (I think) being friends with the guys in Katatonia and Opeth. Anyway, they were releasing albums around the same time we are talking about here. Their music for me was fantastic  - just a stellar combo of dark, death, doom (and some black too, at the very beginning). The vocals...well, as Luke can confirm, not their strong suit, especially the cleans (although they did get better in time!). But, given the genre, I didn't care, really. I didn't have to force myself to like them, I just thought they worked fine with the music.

I got a Novembre song that I liked a lot in my roulette, Umana.  I didn't really follow up on it though, and I should probably fix that.

Offline twosuitsluke

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Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Tonight's Decision (1999)
« Reply #197 on: November 30, 2022, 02:50:47 AM »
Just giving my second listen to Tonight's Decision now.

On the positive side I do think it's better lyrically than previous releases. Admittedly that could partly be due to my finding the music less interesting, so I am able to focus on the vocal more.

Also, to be fair Lethean, your post highlighting your favourite lyrics probably helped as those ones seemed to stick out when listening, so that was kinda helpful.

My album ranking so far is pretty much that I have liked each album slightly less than the last, apart from Brave Murder Day being slightly better than Dance of December Souls :|

1. Brave Murder Day
2. Dance of December Souls
3. Discouraged Ones
4. Tonight's Decision

I will continue following this thread and listening of course, but currently that early, more extreme version of the band, is my favourite.

Offline Lethean

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Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Tonight's Decision (1999)
« Reply #198 on: November 30, 2022, 07:05:49 AM »

Also, to be fair Lethean, your post highlighting your favourite lyrics probably helped as those ones seemed to stick out when listening, so that was kinda helpful.
I'm glad it was. :) I'll try to do that for each of the albums going forward.

Offline LithoJazzoSphere

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Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Tonight's Decision (1999)
« Reply #199 on: December 01, 2022, 05:21:16 AM »
Teargas EP



Recorded at Sunlight Studio, April-November of 2000.  Mastered/edited at The Cutting Room in Stockholm.  Released February 2001 on Peaceville Records. 

Tracklist:

1. Teargas -      3:23
2. Sulfur -        6:21
3. March 4 -     3:50

Total Track Time - 13:34

Lineup:

Jonas Renkse - vocals, lyrics
Anders Nystrom - guitars, Mellotron, songwriting
Daniel Liljekvist - drums
Fredrik Norrman - electric & acoustic guitars
Mattias Norrman - bass

Tomas Skogsberg - producer/engineering/mixing
Jocke Pettersson - producer/engineering/mixing
Peter In de Betou - mastering/editing

*This was intended to be a promotional single to tide people over before the next album came out, but they added two bonus tracks to it. 

*"March 4" is appended as "38047" on some streaming services. 

*I'll save comments about their sound at this point for the main album. 


Last Fair Deal Gone Down






Recorded at Sunlight Studio, April-November of 2000.  Mastered/edited at The Cutting Room in Stockholm.  Released May 2001 on Peaceville Records. 

Tracklist:

1. Dispossession -               5:36
2. Chrome -                        5:14
3. We Must Bury You -         2:50
4. Teargas -                        3:23
5. I Transpire -                    5:56
6. Tonight's Music -              4:20
7. Clean Today -                  4:23
8. The Future of Speech -     5:40
9. Passing Bird -                  3:38
10. Sweet Nurse -               3:57
11. Don't Tell a Soul -          5:42

Total Track Time - 50:39

Lineup:

Jonas Renkse - lead and backing vocals, lyrics, songwriting
Anders Nystrom - rhythm and lead guitars, keyboards and Mellotron, songwriting
Daniel Liljekvist - drums
Fredrik Norrman - rhythm, lead  and acoustic guitars, songwriting
Mattias Norrman - bass

Tomas Skogsberg - producer/engineering/mixing
Jocke Pettersson - producer/engineering/mixing
Peter In de Betou - mastering/editing





*Man have I been looking foward to this one.  This was their newest album when I started getting into them.  Normally I've been waiting a few days after the previous album to start listening to the next one, not this time, I had to put it on the next day. 

*Travis Smith handled the artwork again for this one.  Maybe it's just a coincidence, but I found out a few years later that it reminds me of some of the covers from Swedish dark ambient artist raison d'etre.  Look up Conspectus and Within the Depths of Silence and Phormations if you're curious. 

*The title is named after a song by Robert Johnson, the blues guitarist.  You know all the folklore about the deal with the devil for talent made at the crossroads and all that lore?  Yeah, that guy. 

*They suffered more from writer's block in this period than they had before.  More time was spent editing and redoing parts than in the past.  They also struggled to find the finances to record the whole album at once, so they had to do it in smaller increments over a number of months.  This led to some tension and stress among them.  For some reason that tends to produce better art from what I've observed.  They also wanted to give each individual song more of a distinctive personality, feeling that some of their earlier albums had too many songs that were similar to each other. 

*The tuning is starting to drop now.  The last three albums had all been a half-step down in Eb standard, but now they've lowered to drop-Db for some of the songs.  Anders mentions experimenting with tunings in this period, so there might be others as well, but that one is quite obvious to me. 

*Instantly the drumming is by far the best it's been, you should be able to tell even just from the first track.  The grooves are more propulsive, and yet much more detailed and intricate.  Ghost notes, all the double strokes, flam and triplet fills, and the crash riding add a lot of nuance and energy.  This is still just a taste of what's to come, but this is building his resume as probably one of my top 5 drummers.  The ride and bell pattern opening "Clean Today" is just so tasty.  I love the tom groove in the verse of "Don't Tell a Soul", it's fairly simple, but quite effective. 

*They also talk about having Daniel as really freeing them to start increasing the complexity of their rhythms and arrangements.  They didn't have a rehearsal space, so the first time he was able to play the songs with them was when they began tracking the album, and he had to borrow an old worn pair of drumsticks from Jonas because he didn't have money to buy new ones.  He recorded the whole album on just that one pair of sticks, and since the studio wasn't set up for punch-ins, any time he made a mistake, he had to redo the whole song. 

*For a long time "Clean Today" was my favorite track from the first five albums, until "Gone" from DO overtook it maybe half a decade ago.  The verse of "Clean Today" is a simplified version of some patterns they would utilize a lot more later on, starting to add a bit of Tool influence to their sound with the toms and muted guitar patterns.  It's not as obvious as it would be later, but they specifically cite Aenima as an influence on their sound in this period, as well as A Perfect Circle.  They also reference Ben Christophers and Tori Amos as influences for them at the time. 

*Some really fantastic clean tones here, especially on "Dispossession" and "We Must Bury You".  I like how "Sweet Nurse" has completely different effects going on for each guitar track, making them unique and distinct.  Around 2:45 is another variation of those signature Nystrom licks, leaning heavily on the tritone. 

*Jonas is starting to come into his own as a vocalist.  Still not his best performance, but the audible uneasiness and discomfort is really starting to dissipate.  These are also much more memorable melodies to me.  These tracks differentiated themselves from each other much more quickly than their earlier albums to me. 

*This is where they start experimenting just a bit with electronics.  The verses of "Chrome", "Tonight's Music", and "We Must Bury You" especially.  I'm kind of surprised they didn't try and *ahem* bury the latter one late in the album, I know it was a controversial tune when it came out.  But again, this was still the era where all these former death, doom, black, and gothic metal bands were experimenting with the flavors of the day, and various electronic textures were a common sandbox those bands played in at this point.  Liljekvist wasn't available to record at the time Anders wrote that track, so they tried recording it on a drum machine without him, and kept the result. 

*Mattias' bass playing is an improvement over Fredrik's and Anders'.  Less unvaried root notes following the power chords and more fills and pickup notes.  They're actually really sounding like a band with distinct individual members to me now, except that it's not always clear which guitar parts are Anders and which are Frederik. 

*I'd kind of forgotten how omnipresent the keyboards are here.  They're less prominent than they would become later on, but they're frequently sitting back in the mix, filling the sound out, peaking out occasionally when the rest of the instruments are quieter. 

*For longer than I want to admit I couldn't remember which of "Tonight's Decision" and "Tonight's Music" was the album and which was the song. 

*The Mellotron strings in "The Future of Speech" are probably the most beautiful thing on the album. 

*"Passing Bird" was one of my early favorites.  For some reason this wound up being a song that I listened to a number of times earlier on while shopping at Costco, and it made that drudgery more bearable.  This song at this point is probably more famous for Jonas mispronouncing "emo" though. 

*I'm still torn about when "the Katatonia sound" really begins.  It's probably here, because this is the genesis of the most stable lineup they would have in their career, and Jonas is a more capable vocalist than on the first few albums.  However, it's still streamlined compared to their later work, and the keyboards are still mostly in the background.  And probably more important for me than most other people, they haven't yet settled into what I consider their signature tuning, which we'll get to in the next couple albums. 

*Lethean can talk more about the lyrics if he wants, but I know Jonas talks about starting to write more fictional stories rather than just personal introspection, "We Must Bury You" (based on a news story he read) and "Sweet Nurse" being particular examples. 

*Like a lot of lower and even mid-tier bands, playing this sort of music isn't very profitable, so Jonas and Anders in particular had to work by day at the post office and then at night in the studio working on the album, which is one of numerous reasons it took longer to record. 

*They did small tours with Paradise Lost and then with Opeth before the album was released.  Particularly on the Paradise Lost tour, they had to sometimes sleep in the tiny, cramped van, noticing that Paradise Lost's was much larger and comfortable, outfitted with gaming consoles and such.  At the time it was a coin flip as to who was more popular between Opeth and Katatonia, but Katatonia let Opeth headline the gigs.  After the album they toured with Akercocke and Gandalf, and then again with Opeth (who had just released Blackwater Park by that point), and Novembre.  Jonas Kjellgren from Scar Symmetry and others did front of house sound for some of their gigs at the time. 


Tonight's Music single



Tracklist:

1. Tonight's Music -                   4:20
2. Help Me Disappear -              5:13
3. Oh How I Enjoy the Light -     2:44 

Total Track Time - 12:17

*"Oh How I Enjoy the Light" is a cover of a tune from the band Palace. 

Lineup:

Jonas Renkse - vocals, lyrics
Anders Nystrom - guitars, keyboards, songwriting
Daniel Liljekvist - drums
Fredrik Norrman - guitars
Mattias Norrman - bass

*The second two tracks were produced by Katatonia and recorded at Black Lounge Studio. 

*I don't like the production as much on those two tracks, it sounds thinner and more brittle to me. 

*There's another variation of that Nystrom riff at 3:30 and a few other spots in "Help Them Disappear". 

*If you thought Jonas' clean vocals were rough on Discouraged Ones, you should hear the original of "Oh How I Enjoy the Light", Jonas sounds like Dio in comparison to me.  But maybe they're so far in the "earnest amateur authenticity" direction that they appeal to indie folk types, I don't know, I always struggled with the lo-fi, slacker sound. 

*Favorite Tracks - "Clean Today", "Dispossession", "Help Me Disappear", "The Future of Speech"
« Last Edit: December 01, 2022, 05:37:57 AM by LithoJazzoSphere »

Offline Lethean

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Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Last Fair Deal Gone Down (2001)
« Reply #200 on: December 01, 2022, 07:25:48 AM »
Definitely my favorite album so far.  Going backwards it still took me a little time to get into, but this album is great. I have a lot of love for the first 4, but this one is definitely a big step up.

The opening track, Dispossession, is my favorite here and one of my favorite Katatonia songs.  The second this song begins, I always begin to smile,. which might seem odd given the lyrics, but I love this song.  I really really hope to hear it live one day.

Tonight's Music is next - another favorite Katatonia song.  I was very happy to hear this one on the live stream.

Other favorites include.. the whole album?  Um: The Future of Speech, Chrome, I Transpire, Sulfur (all of the above EP tracks are bonus tracks on rereleased versions of Last Fair Deal Gone Down).


I didn't realize there were any writer's block issues for this album.  Anders mentioned that his songwriting had reached a new peak.

It definitely sounded like a stressful time with the recording; they were all poor as evidenced by the story of recording the whole album with one pair of drumsticks.  Jonas said looking back it was amazing they made it through, working at the post office all day, biking to the studio at night, sometimes to find another band there and have to go home and wait for the studio to call them, biking back to the studio, only getting a couple hours of sleep.  But they really believed in the songs which made it all worth it and made them push through.

Anders thought they became better musicians due to the recording process and having to record whole songs in one take.

Anders was also getting frustrated by the lack of support from their label; mentioning that Opeth built success with massive touring supported by their label (Music for Nations).  But Katatonia didn't get the same support from Peaceville.

On the other hand, Peaceville did declare that Last Fair Deal Gone Down was probably the best album in their history.


Offline Lethean

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Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Last Fair Deal Gone Down (2001)
« Reply #201 on: December 01, 2022, 07:30:24 AM »
 Favorite lyrics of mine:

Dispossession:
I'll try not to do this too often, but it's the whole song.  And again I'll say that I don't consider myself to be a dark or depressive person, but the lyrics really resonate for me.

It is to see a traitor go free
It is to feel a filter in me
It is to leave the lights that I saw
It is to ask: is it easy to go

In this dead hour
Here with you
Seconds are worthless
In this dead hour
When all is blank
Minutes are worthless

How long will it take until
There will be room again for hope
It is so sad to see dispossession
It has become my obsession

It is to have a knife in my back
It is to say my soul got a crack


Chrome
'Cause I am so distracted
I am slightly shocked
By how things can keep going
Like a dead man's clock


I Transpire
There is no way I am going to be free
Because their hearts, they are similar to mine
There is no way they are going to release me
From this chain of rows unto our own hearts


Tonight's Music
Again, it's the whole song.  I bolded a line with great imagery that I really like, but it's the whole thing.

Who could call my name without regretting
Who could see beyond this my darkness
And for once save their own prayers
Who could mirror down just a little
Of their sun?


How could this go so very wrong
That I must depend on darkness
Would anyone follow me further down

How could this go so very far
That I need someone to say
What is wrong
Not with the world but me

Who could call my name without regretting
Who could promise to never destroy me
Tonight my head is full of wishes
And everything I drink is full of her.


Clean Today
Will the street lights reflect me well enough
Am I transparent when I am clean
Will the darkness around me be so strong
That there is no way I can be seen

And when I pause for one breath
I see millions like me


The Future of Speech
Here's another where I could do the whole thing, but I won't.  Instead I'll just mention that I love how his voice intensifies as these lyrics repeat and you can feel it getting more desperate:

A brand new day
It can’t get worse
Hear myself say
It can’t get worse


Don't Tell a Soul
I have been destroyed
By the perfection that is a life
See I’m moving soon
See my feet are already on the road


Sulfur
I’m drawing back time
To feel things once again
As when I had found them

I had sulfur in my heart
But not enough strength to give it a spark
I did not know when to start
When we were bright or when we were dark
I had a wind in my chest
Blew as hard as it ever could


March4
Things once blurred are twice sharpened
When I think of what I could have
Blood has left me even before you
Can never return a second time

But everything is now
A film on rewind


Help Me Disappear
There’s a hole in the wall
Torn up anew
One dead eye
The color of you

To vanish for life
And promise to stay
Away from the knowing
Bird in a cage

So help me disappear
Or to believe in a change
No way out of here
That I can see
Or the nightmares that burn
Into my head at night
Make them disappear
So I can breathe

Looked out the window twice
Just to be sure
That no one was standing
Outside the door
But it’s just as calm
As it was before
They’re all gone now
Not there anymore

Offline ProfessorPeart

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Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Last Fair Deal Gone Down (2001)
« Reply #202 on: December 01, 2022, 08:03:17 AM »
I would concur the modern Katatonia started on this album. Where I still struggle is with Jonas' vocals. This is why I am glad they recorded the whole album live while on the Night Is The New Day tour and then released it. When I want to listen to this album, I go to Last Fair Day Gone Night.

I actually have a playlist that's called Modern Kat, but I don't start with this album due to my dislike of the vocals. I just really struggle with the albums before Viva. Whatever happened, Jonas takes a monumental leap forward very soon.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2022, 12:18:37 PM by ProfessorPeart »
beul ni teh efac = Lube In The Face / That has to be wrong.  :lol / EDIT: Oh, it's Blue! I'm an idiot.
Pardon the interruption, but I just had to run in and celebrate the majesty of Lube in the Face as highest moment in roulette history

Offline nick_z

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Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Last Fair Deal Gone Down (2001)
« Reply #203 on: December 01, 2022, 11:32:02 AM »
Last Fair Deal Gone Down - my favorite Katatonia album! (It actually battles it out with another one that's coming, um, very soon...but overall this has the edge, on most days anyway  :))

As far as I'm concerned, a very large leap forward from Tonight's Decision. I distinctly remember loving this from first listen, when it came out. Also great packaging, with really bleak imagery. In terms of the debate on whether this is the start of the "Katatonia sound", I'm not sure (part of me thinks there was always a "Katatonia sound" lurking in there  ;)), but this record absolutely feels the work of a band, performance-wise.

Except for Litho's mention of the single/EP, I haven't seen Teargas highlighted in the write-ups...I was a bit surprised, as it's no doubt one of my favorite songs in here and, well, one of my favorite Katatonia songs, period! I thought it was a fan-favorite, but maybe not? Or maybe just not a DTF-fan favorite?  :biggrin: I don't know, but I love it. The quiet start that just explodes in THAT riff that's so genius in its simplicity, along with the drumming...the magnificent chorus...the relatively weird structure, with just one verse. It has spoken to me since the first time I've heard it.

The other big favorite here is Tonight's Music, and another top Katatonia song for me. Another incredibly good chorus, where the drumming serves the song so well (couldn't agree more on Daniel Liljekvist, by the way) and the use of the opening melodic theme underneath is perfect.  And of course, the song's coda ("What is wrong...Not with the world but me"), just goosebumps all the way.

I enjoy the experiment in We Must Bury You, and always found Jonas' vocals in the chorus mildly terrifying  ;) They fit the song great...it would be interesting to hear the song recorded with the band's current production values, especially in the programming/electronic department.

I agree on the signature Nystrom licks popping here and there...Sweet Nurse and also the main riff Chrome, with that steady "Katatonia beat". So many other great songs in here...Dispossession, The Future of Speech...no real dud for me.

As for the B-sides: Sulfur is the best, and could have (should have?) found a spot in the album. Great song. March 4 is pretty cool too, with a slightly unsettling vibe throughout (and quite heavy too!). Other than the O How I Enjoy the Light cover, I agree Help Me Disappear is a weaker link, especially as far as the production is concerned.

Fantastic album!

Online Evermind

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Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Last Fair Deal Gone Down (2001)
« Reply #204 on: December 01, 2022, 11:47:41 AM »
Except for Litho's mention of the single/EP, I haven't seen Teargas highlighted in the write-ups...I was a bit surprised, as it's no doubt one of my favorite songs in here and, well, one of my favorite Katatonia songs, period! I thought it was a fan-favorite, but maybe not? Or maybe just not a DTF-fan favorite?  :biggrin: I don't know, but I love it. The quiet start that just explodes in THAT riff that's so genius in its simplicity, along with the drumming...the magnificent chorus...the relatively weird structure, with just one verse. It has spoken to me since the first time I've heard it.

Teargas is my favourite song on this album.
This first band is Soen very cool swingy jazz fusion kinda stuff.

Offline Lethean

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Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Last Fair Deal Gone Down (2001)
« Reply #205 on: December 01, 2022, 12:02:58 PM »
I like all of the songs on Last Fair Deal Gone Down, so Teargas is included. :)

I still like the songs I mentioned as favorites better than Teargas, but it's a great song.  And it must be a fan favorite, or at least they think it is, because they've played it at almost every headlining show I've seen.   I wouldn't mind it getting a (temporary, not permanent) vacation from the setlist.  And some other songs need a turn. :)

Offline Lethean

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Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Last Fair Deal Gone Down (2001)
« Reply #206 on: December 01, 2022, 03:37:38 PM »
I'll also second and third all of the praise for Daniel Liljekvist.  I imagine some of the drummers they auditioned and ultimately passed on were better than Jonas, but I'm glad they held out until they found Daniel. 

Offline nick_z

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Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Last Fair Deal Gone Down (2001)
« Reply #207 on: December 01, 2022, 04:07:25 PM »
I haven't updated my "live" standings, by the way:

1. Last Fair Deal Gone Down
2. Brave Murder Day
3. Discouraged Ones
4. Tonight's Decision
5. Dance of December Souls

Offline LithoJazzoSphere

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Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Last Fair Deal Gone Down (2001)
« Reply #208 on: December 01, 2022, 05:37:43 PM »
I forgot to mention that when I first heard "We Must Bury You" it felt like I was alone in a car with it snowing down all around.  I eventually replicated this experience. 

Except for Litho's mention of the single/EP, I haven't seen Teargas highlighted in the write-ups...I was a bit surprised, as it's no doubt one of my favorite songs in here and, well, one of my favorite Katatonia songs, period! I thought it was a fan-favorite, but maybe not? Or maybe just not a DTF-fan favorite?

Yeah, I've heard, and the band mentions it themselves, that it's one of their best-received songs.  I love it, I'm not sure there's such a thing as a bad Katatonia song.  I just like most of the others even better.  I fairly frequently find that fan favorites are just average songs in a band's discography for me, and unreasonably frequently some of the B-sides are my favorites.  Katatonia and Opeth are especially prone to this. 

Offline Lethean

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Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Last Fair Deal Gone Down (2001)
« Reply #209 on: December 01, 2022, 06:16:02 PM »
Rankings for me:

1. Last Fair Deal Gone Down
2. Tonight's Decision
3. Discouraged Ones
4. Dance of December Souls
5. Brave Murder Day