Author Topic: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Sky Void of Stars (2023)  (Read 22633 times)

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Offline Lethean

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Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Discouraged Ones (1998)
« Reply #140 on: November 15, 2022, 10:50:23 AM »
Listening to Discouraged Ones again now and completely agree with billboy about it having a certain charm.  It's cold and grey outside and I can hear the wind and it's been such an enjoyable listen.

Offline The Realm

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Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Discouraged Ones (1998)
« Reply #141 on: November 15, 2022, 01:54:18 PM »
Discouraged Ones definitely has a certain charm but it also has a real 'band finding its way into a new sound' kind of feel as well. It is really amazing to listen to this record now knowing the journey the band would go on. In terms of The Cure sound/influence, there are moments when the vocals appear to be channelling Robert Smith but musically this is nothing like The Cure to me. I enjoy this album for what it is but I am not a big fan of this album overall.

Offline Lethean

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Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Discouraged Ones (1998)
« Reply #142 on: November 20, 2022, 12:26:00 AM »
If anyone needs more time to listen to Discouraged Ones, you have it. I won't be able to post the next one until at least Monday.

Offline Lethean

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Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Discouraged Ones (1998)
« Reply #143 on: November 21, 2022, 08:54:31 AM »
So, how's it going?  Are you hanging in there TAC or have you become a discouraged one? :) I imagine this album isn't your thing and likely not the next, but even if you don't really get into any of them, you'll start finding them more enjoyable.

I just got finished seeing a string of Katatonia shows (which were incredible) and will post the next album tomorrow.  I'm pretty much finished with the write up but it'll be easier to format from my PC instead of phone.


Offline LithoJazzoSphere

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Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Discouraged Ones (1998)
« Reply #144 on: November 21, 2022, 08:56:11 AM »
Procrastinate on posting Katatonia by seeing Katatonia.   :hefdaddy

Offline Lethean

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Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Discouraged Ones (1998)
« Reply #145 on: November 21, 2022, 09:16:24 AM »
 :metal

Are you seeing them on this tour? I'm not sure if you've mentioned if you live in North America or not.

Offline LithoJazzoSphere

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Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Discouraged Ones (1998)
« Reply #146 on: November 21, 2022, 09:31:36 AM »
I do, but I haven't been back to any shows since the pandemic started.  Maybe again at some point. 

Offline nick_z

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Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Discouraged Ones (1998)
« Reply #147 on: November 21, 2022, 09:40:21 AM »
So, how's it going?  Are you hanging in there TAC or have you become a discouraged one? :) I imagine this album isn't your thing and likely not the next, but even if you don't really get into any of them, you'll start finding them more enjoyable.

I just got finished seeing a string of Katatonia shows (which were incredible) and will post the next album tomorrow.  I'm pretty much finished with the write up but it'll be easier to format from my PC instead of phone.

Yeah, I don't think I've seen Tim's comments on this one - have you given up already?  :biggrin:

Online TAC

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Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Discouraged Ones (1998)
« Reply #148 on: November 21, 2022, 09:59:54 AM »
Hah! I will hit it today after work. Comments then.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline Lethean

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Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Discouraged Ones (1998)
« Reply #149 on: November 21, 2022, 10:06:49 AM »
I do, but I haven't been back to any shows since the pandemic started.  Maybe again at some point.

I know it's not true but I've felt like I was one of the last cautious hold outs regarding this.  I skipped shows early this year for the same reasons.  Now I'm going to some but wearing masks.  Hopefully they did their job and I'll take a couple home tests this week.

Online TAC

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Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Discouraged Ones (1998)
« Reply #150 on: November 21, 2022, 04:20:01 PM »
Ok, I made it through Discouraged Ones. It's not perfect, but it has some nice moments. My brain is not wired for music this consistently slow.  :lol


I Break- This has a real interesting English, even Gothy feel to it. Not bad at all.

Stalemate- Cool riff and nice steady pace. Like I Break, I kind of have a closet liking for vocals like this.

Deadhouse-Ooh, I'm digging this beginning. The song is a bit dreary, but it's the type of song that could out of nowhere get a decent score in a vacuum of a roulette round.

Relention-I liked the beginning, but then it fell off a cliff. The vocal is pretty bad in the second half of the song when it picks back up again.

Cold Ways- This song is pretty cool. Love the driving nature of the main riff.

Gone-Er...next..

Last Resort-Not sure this did it for me.

Nerve-This is a chunky opening. I dig the music. Has kind of a Nirvana feel.  I'm not sure I love The vocal in the verses are terrible, but the chorus vocals a better.

Saw You Drown- This was from before. It's a cool song.

Instrumental- This would've been better if it started at the 1:58 mark.

Distrust- I believe the intro section definitely leave you hanging. What the hell happened? It falls off a cliff. 2:40- 4:12 is pretty tasty.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline nick_z

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Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Discouraged Ones (1998)
« Reply #151 on: November 21, 2022, 05:07:01 PM »
Nice! I was fearing the worst, but it appears you liked it well enough  :)

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Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Discouraged Ones (1998)
« Reply #152 on: November 21, 2022, 06:02:29 PM »
There's a part of me that has a soft spot for a steady pace gothy vibe like Dawn Of Solace and even though they have harshies, Tribulation. I love classic Fields Of The Nephilim and I hear a little of them here.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline LithoJazzoSphere

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Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Discouraged Ones (1998)
« Reply #153 on: November 21, 2022, 07:41:02 PM »
My brain is not wired for music this consistently slow.  :lol

*Makes note for future TAC roulettes, "no funeral doom or dark ambient..."*

There's a part of me that has a soft spot for a steady pace gothy vibe like Dawn Of Solace and even though they have harshies, Tribulation. I love classic Fields Of The Nephilim and I hear a little of them here.

We'll make a goth rocker out of you yet!

Online TAC

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Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Discouraged Ones (1998)
« Reply #154 on: November 21, 2022, 07:44:14 PM »
My brain is not wired for music this consistently slow.  :lol

*Makes note for future TAC roulettes, "no funeral doom or dark ambient..."*

Yeah, you'll have to make the next one. Maybe sometime next year. I need to come up with the right concept for it.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline Lethean

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Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Discouraged Ones (1998)
« Reply #155 on: November 21, 2022, 11:52:56 PM »


Gone-Er...next..
:lol

Aside from that, much better reaction than what I was expecting. :)  Glad you seemed to like Nerve a little better this time around.  How would you rank the albums?

Offline Lethean

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Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Discouraged Ones (1998)
« Reply #156 on: November 21, 2022, 11:54:16 PM »
Twosuitsluke - curious about your thoughts as well. :)

Offline Lethean

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Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Tonight's Decision (1999)
« Reply #157 on: November 22, 2022, 11:29:19 AM »
Tonight's Decision (1999)


1.   For My Demons                    5:47
2.   I Am Nothing                       4:37
3.   In Death, a Song                  4:51
4.   Had to (Leave)                     6:03
5.   This Punishment                   2:46
6.   Right Into the Bliss               5:04
7.   No Good Can Come of This    4:24
8.   Strained                              4:15
9.   A Darkness Coming              5:01
10.   Nightmares by the Sea*     4:15
11.   Black Session                    7:00
2003 Reissue Bonus tracks:
12.   No Devotion                      4:48
13.   Fractured                          5:52
*Jeff Buckley cover

At the end of the album, the last song (either Black Session or Fractured depending on the version) has some silence and then a beautiful hidden instrumental track.

Lineup:
Jonas Renkse - vocals
Anders Nyström - guitars, keyboards, backing vocals
Fredrik Norrman - guitars and bass
Dan Swanö - session drums

The liner notes say all music and lyrics by Nyström/Renkse. It could be the same deal as before with all music by Anders and all lyrics by Jonas, but I don't know 100%.  Anders mentioned that this was still a very creative period for him and he wrote all of the demos in a relatively short period of time.

Tonight's Decision is their first album with Peaceville Records, who as Litho indicated, signed them on the strength of Discouraged Ones.  It seems that Avantgarde Music actually released them so they could sign with Peaceville and that’s pretty awesome - you usually hear about the negatives when it comes to the business side of the music industry.  Avantgarde Music is thanked in the liner notes of Tonight's Decision.

At the time of recording, they still hadn't found a drummer.  Jonas said that he tried to play some of the songs, but he hadn't played drums since he recorded Discouraged Ones.  The studio made some calls and brought someone in for the recording.  Jonas said that he sounded great warming up, but then when it was time to actually record, it didn't work out.  He struggled on just one song for the whole day. 

So then they asked Dan Swano (who was not producing this time), and he arrived in the morning, recorded the drums for all 13 songs in one day, and left that night.  They played him the demos, he made some notes that he taped to the drum kit, and then recorded to a click track while they would call out changes through the microphone.  I think the drumming here is a step up from Discouraged Ones, but I imagine a lot more could have been done with more time in the studio or for Dan to learn the songs.

The rest of the recording process went well, and Mikael Åkerfeldt co-produced the vocals again.

I'm not sure what genre you would call this album and Discouraged Ones.  I always think of these albums together, even though they are quite different from each other.

Jonas is very much still finding his voice here, but I think there's a definite improvement from Discouraged Ones.  I've said it before and will probably again - I'm very glad to have this opportunity to hear how his voice changed like this.  Most of the time, or at least as it relates to the bands I listen to, the singer may improve over time but even on their first album their voice is more set.  With Katatonia it's almost like witnessing someone learning how to sing and sharing it all with us. 

Despite the vocals still being rough as Professor Peart alluded to, I kinda think they just work most of the time with this set of songs.  You have to (or, one has to, or at least I had to) get used to it, but then it fits.

In the end, I just like the songs here, and again I like Anders a lot; his playing and his creativity keeps me listening.  A song like Had to (Leave) is a good example; at first listen I wouldn’t really like it much.  But I like the way the music changes back and forth and then there's a middle section that's really cool and catches my ear.  Then it makes me relate more strongly to the whole song.

Favorite track: A Darkness Coming.  When Tonight's Decision was new to me and I hadn't gotten used to the vocals and wasn't sure if this album was for me, that's the song that drew me in.  It's beautiful and when I hear it, it takes me somewhere else, I'm in the song instead of where I physically am.

Other favorites for me are For My Demons, Strained, and Black Session.  And No Devotion, which is a bonus track that's just as good as if not better than many of the main tracks.  This (imo) will prove to be the case many times in future Katatonia albums as well.  BTW, the entire track is great but the last minute and a half, starting around 3:10, is incredible.

Lyrics
In general:
I’ll just say upfront that Jonas Renkse is my favorite lyricist.  I think the lyrics are a bigger contributor as to why Katatonia makes such an impact on me.  I used to say that the music was way more important to me than the lyrics.  Music first, and if the lyrics are good, that’s a bonus.  And in a way that is still true; if I don’t like the music, it doesn’t matter how good the lyrics are.  Maybe Bob Dylan really is the best lyric writer ever - I wouldn’t know, because I can’t stand his voice.  But with Katatonia the lyrics have taken a much bigger role.  A single line is kind of what hooked me in the first place, and it’s a combination of the lyrics and the vocals and the music that creates emotions and connections and imagery that I don’t feel when listening to anything else, at least not on such a consistent basis. 

For Tonight’s Decision, I think the lyrics are already really good.  They only get better and better with time, but some of that connection/imagery/emotion thing happens here for me too.  Which, besides liking what Anders does here, is another reason that these older albums have worked for me.

Some of my favorites:

For My Demons:
You would never sleep at night
If you knew what I’ve been through
And this thought is all I have
To trust upon when light is gone

I Am Nothing:
Like someone called my name
But I didn’t care to look that way
I just fixed my eyes into the crowd
It would have been strange to turn around

Right into the Bliss:
By a black road
Giving a brief smile
Something’s on the way
Forgotten for a while

And you try to speak this without a voice
Down by a black road
We try to forget
And try to make it through

No Good Can Come of This:
I read a letter I never sent
And saw me smiling on a picture
This is nothing I remember
Whatever made me feel so

With Strained and A Darkness Coming, I really like the mood the entire lyrics create, even if I might not quote specific lines.

I should go back and add some for Discouraged Ones as well - maybe I’ll do that in between this post and the next.

The artwork
The cover of Tonight's Decision was their first collaboration with Travis Smith, who has done many many (many) great album covers over the years.  Almost all of Katatonia's, and bands such as Opeth, Riverside, Redemption, Anathema, Nevermore, and more.  I believe the Tonight's Decision cover is one of earliest covers that helped to build his name.
 
Most of their album covers include a bird or at least wings, even Brave Murder Day and Discouraged Ones, and the bird is prominent on this cover as well.

Here are some pictures that I think are from the Tonight's Decision session - only 3 band members and the train tracks go with the album artwork:









New members and live shows
Peaceville put them on a tour with Paradise Lost, but they still didn't have a drummer or a bass player.  Fredrik Norrman finally recommended his brother Mattias, a guitar player who also played bass.  And Mattias had played with drummer Daniel Liljekvist in another band.  The tour was supposed to start soon, so this was pretty much their only option.  But as it turned out, they were very impressed with Daniel's drumming and how quickly he had learned the songs. Daniel had never heard of Katatonia at that time and was given a tape with Discouraged Ones on one side and Tonight's Decision on the other.  No one told him which songs to learn, so he learned them all.  When they all met up for the first time, they immediately began to play For My Demons.  While they were really impressed with Daniel, Daniel was impressed by them, thought the playing was tight and he enjoyed playing with "real musicians."  The time they'd spent rehearsing for the nonexistent Discouraged Ones tour probably paid off.  The tour went well, and both new members decided to join full time, so Katatonia finally had a full lineup and things were starting to look up.

Anders however, wasn't happy paying the management company that Peaceville had set them up with.  He didn't feel that Katatonia was being supported or pushed enough aside from the Paradise Lost tour, so they broke off with the management company and he slowly began taking on a business role himself.

In 2000, they played some shows in Poland with Opeth, including a short set at the Metalmania festival.  They traveled by train, but weren't booked seats, so they were standing where they could; at one point in the train's bathroom because there was no room anywhere else.   They also made their first US live appearance that year at Milwaukee Metal Fest.  They've described it as their worst ever live show (though they had a great response from the audience which made it worth it).  They were told to come to the US as tourists and bring no equipment or instruments and that everything would be provided, but things didn't go well.  Equipment troubles, bad sound, etc. 

You can find the entire Milwaukee set on YouTube: https://youtu.be/Zyh1iJpAOI8
The sound quality is not great, there are some mistakes, but for being their worst show, it's not so bad.  There's a lot of focus on Anders and it's nice getting to see him play back then.  You can see him singing along to the songs (not in front of a mic for backing vocals), and he still does that today.  And seeing Daniel Liljekvist is great as well. Jonas sounds better than I would have expected, but the vocals are low in the mix and maybe that helps in this case.  He was definitely not the most comfortable frontman, but he does manage to joke that it was a preview when they started playing the wrong song. :) 

They felt that they should have toured more during this time as it was the way to grow the band, but at the same time, touring was too expensive for them so they were in a difficult position there.

Side Projects
Just some brief notes: 1999 was Jonas’ last record with October Tide (drums and guitars - they had someone else do the vocals).  Anders still had his Diabolical Masquerade black metal project which he had done 3 albums for.

Offline LithoJazzoSphere

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Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Tonight's Decision (1999)
« Reply #158 on: November 22, 2022, 04:06:32 PM »
I listened to the album a few days ago and took notes, and there's some overlap with Lethean, but I figured maybe I'd just leave them since it's interesting to see how similarly or differently we hear some things. 

*Oh wow, right from the very few notes of the album I'm transported back two decades.  As I mentioned earlier in the thread, "For My Demons" was one of the first half-dozen MP3s I stumbled across from them, and this was the sound of Katatonia that I associated with them for the first year or more.  Growing up in the 90s, alt rock was huge among my friends, and I casually liked some of it, but most of it never fully hit for me.  Well, this is the somber, Swedish version of it, and man is it so much better suited to me than the mainstream bands were.  And we're not even into Katatonia's best stuff yet.  "Right Into the Bliss" was another of those first tracks for me so that opening guitar melody is so indelibly imprinted in my head I'm sure I could go 1,000 years without hearing it and still be able to hum it. 

*Swano's drumming is definitely an improvement over Renkse's.  It's still pretty meat and potatoes, but Dan just has more instrumental musicality than Jonas does, with a bit more variety of beats, fills, and accents here and there.  The rhythms are more dynamic and less linear now.  Part of it is the development of songwriting as well.  There's more of a feeling of the drum parts being written to the songs, whereas earlier albums at times felt like static drum patterns were set and riffs were created around those.  It sounds like Dan has a China as part of the kit he used for the album, which is a new timbre for Katatonia's sound.  A bit more tom usage than Jonas as well, a sample of things to come. 

*The guitars have this fuzzier tone than normal, almost kind of early Smashing Pumpkins-ish.  Anders and Fredrik are adding to their arsenal here, with harmonics in some of the riffs like in "Had To (Leave)".  I also love the slow tapping riff in "Had To (Leave)".  There's some more Gilmour-esque guitar soloing in "This Punishment", but even a bit more restrained.  Hearing this makes me want to go back to the earlier albums again to compare, because I don't remember if they were doing such distinctive left-right panning of the two rhythm guitar parts at the time.  Acoustic guitars are back in "This Punishment", "No Devotion", and especially in "A Darkness Coming", with some acoustic 12-string, more Opeth-esque.  I also like the dual clean guitar bits like in "No Good Can Come of This".  I don't know of any other bands that do it quite like them. 

*This is definitely their sonically best-produced album so far.  There's still almost a garage rock feel, but the audio fidelity is starting to go up now.  They're experimenting a bit more with studio tricks here, like the lo-fi intro of "Had To (Leave)".  I dig that throwback vinyl crackle break on "Right Into the Bliss".  This was about at the peak of CD popularity, when vinyl had been considered as completely superceded.  Some of the streaming services have the last three seconds of "For My Demons" cut off, which makes it sound like an abrupt ending, which they did use a few times intentionally on other albums, but this isn't supposed to be one of them. 

*A return to more cool synthesizer parts like with the filter-swept pads in "Had To (Leave)", the twinkly details in "For My Demons", the organ in "This Punishment", the Mellotron scattered about, and other parts here and there. 

*Jonas' voice is still pretty shaky, and some of the backing harmonies are a little iffy, but the album is overall better-produced, so it's not quite as glaring as the previous album.   

*It's hard to pinpoint what exactly it is, maybe the production, Dan's drumming, and the guitar tones, but this feels much further removed from the extreme metal days than the last album, despite a lot of shared attributes and personnel.  I guess you could consider this overall their "softest" album. 

*For a long time I didn't know that "Nightmares By the Sea" wasn't written by Katatonia.  Kind of an unusual tone on the rhythm guitars in the verse, they almost sound like bass parts.  I just can't listen to Buckley's original without hearing Katatonia at this point. 

*Bass has become a background instrument again, more felt than heard.  Fredrik was definitely a guitarist who only played bass if necessary. 

*Ah yes, the first appearance of a bonus track after a bit of silence, a staple technique of CDs those days.  Acoustic guitars and E-bow electric leads are magical, as Opeth, Daylight Dies, and others demonstrate. 

*Favorite songs - "A Darkness Coming", "No Good Can Come of This", "Strained", "In Death, A Song"

I'm not sure what genre you would call this album and Discouraged Ones.  I always think of these albums together, even though they are quite different from each other.

Yeah, Rate Your Music lists it as "alternative rock" and "gothic metal", but neither really captures them very well.  "Depressive rock" was a popular fan term for them at the time, but I like "atmospheric rock", for them and other bands like The Gathering, Anathema, and many others who have origins in the doom and gothic metal scenes and kept some of those darker and more atmospheric flavors while moving into music with more rock influences, in Katatonia's case tending to blur the rock/metal lines quite a bit, depending on the album or song. 

Jonas is very much still finding his voice here, but I think there's a definite improvement from Discouraged Ones.  I've said it before and will probably again - I'm very glad to have this opportunity to hear how his voice changed like this.  Most of the time, or at least as it relates to the bands I listen to, the singer may improve over time but even on their first album their voice is more set.  With Katatonia it's almost like witnessing someone learning how to sing and sharing it all with us.

Man, I could swear I made a similar comment, but was it about Jonas, or even earlier in this thread?  I'm gonna have to hunt for it, but I definitely agree with the sentiment, because it's so unusual to see, the majority of musicians appear at least mostly preformed by the time we hear their first works. 

Favorite track: A Darkness Coming.
It's fascinating that we both picked "A Darkness Coming" as our favorite track from this album. 

Maybe Bob Dylan really is the best lyric writer ever - I wouldn’t know, because I can’t stand his voice.

Hah, I see that we both share a distaste for Dylan.  Many times I've heard a song and liked it, discovered that it's a Dylan cover, but just can't get into the original because of his voice. 

*Those glasses in the first photo and the framing of it make Jonas look kind of Steven Wilson-ish, which isn't a thought I've had before.  Probably not a ton of crossover in fanbases, and probably a coincidence, but it sort of looked like Severus Snape in the Harry Potter series was modeled after Jonas. 

*Starting wtih the tour, this is definitely what I would consider as the iconic Katatonia lineup, with Jonas, Anders, Fredrik, Mattias, and Daniel, that they'd get four of their best albums out of. 
« Last Edit: November 22, 2022, 04:25:10 PM by LithoJazzoSphere »

Offline LithoJazzoSphere

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Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Tonight's Decision (1999)
« Reply #159 on: November 22, 2022, 04:37:09 PM »
And Mattias had played with drummer Daniel Liljekvist in another band.

Subdive, I believe.  Hard to find much of their material online. 

Offline nick_z

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Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Tonight's Decision (1999)
« Reply #160 on: November 22, 2022, 05:17:19 PM »
Great write-up, Lethean...and always cool to read your additional notes, Litho.

Yes, this is kind of a weird one for me. I always felt it's a transitional album for the band...a little bit in terms of style too, but really I mean for the band itself, as an entity. I tend to agree that, while the sound is actually "heavier" than in Discouraged Ones, the album feels like the first true departure from Katatonia's extreme metal roots. Again, there was nothing extreme in DO's music/vocals, and yet the whole mood and modus operandi still felt steeped in that scene. It was dark and desolate in a way that still reflected those roots. Tonight's Decision is definitely a melancholic record, but it does that in a way that feels different.

And because the songs generally try to be a little more elaborate, and have more of a "rock" (very broadly speaking) structure, I think the growing pains are a tad more obvious, and the songwriting is still tentative. As it turns out, I don't revisit this record very often. It always feels a little long.

Every time I do revisit, though, I enjoy it. And I love that you can still very much recognize Anders' signature riffing - especially in songs like For My Demons, In Death, A Song, Right Into the Bliss, No Good Can Come of This (the chorus). A Darkness Coming is a great song, and one where we start to see shades of what Katatonia would become. At first, I didn't know Nightmares by the Sea was a cover either (although the vocals had a different vibe)...always loved the part that starts around 2:20. Oh, and Dan Swano's drumming on the album is cool, and it of course gives the whole thing a very different feel, right from the start.

So, overall not among my favorites... and yet it's another enjoyable slab of dark, melancholic rock from these good ol' jolly Swedes  :biggrin: 

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Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Tonight's Decision (1999)
« Reply #161 on: November 22, 2022, 06:12:56 PM »
Great write-up, Lethean...and always cool to read your additional notes, Litho.


I can either listen to the album or read the writeups. I don't have time for both! :lol
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline Lethean

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Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Tonight's Decision (1999)
« Reply #162 on: November 22, 2022, 06:42:26 PM »
Great write-up, Lethean...and always cool to read your additional notes, Litho.


I can either listen to the album or read the writeups. I don't have time for both! :lol

 :lol It's not like you have to do it all at once.  You have a week, give or take a day or two.

Offline Lethean

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Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Tonight's Decision (1999)
« Reply #163 on: November 22, 2022, 06:46:46 PM »
Plus there's old live video in my write up, and you should totally watch it. :)

Offline Lethean

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Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Tonight's Decision (1999)
« Reply #164 on: November 22, 2022, 07:36:13 PM »
I listened to the album a few days ago and took notes, and there's some overlap with Lethean, but I figured maybe I'd just leave them since it's interesting to see how similarly or differently we hear some things. 
I definitely enjoy reading your notes, especially some of the technical things that I don't really notice.

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*Oh wow, right from the very few notes of the album I'm transported back two decades.  As I mentioned earlier in the thread, "For My Demons" was one of the first half-dozen MP3s I stumbled across from them, and this was the sound of Katatonia that I associated with them for the first year or more.  Growing up in the 90s, alt rock was huge among my friends, and I casually liked some of it, but most of it never fully hit for me.  Well, this is the somber, Swedish version of it, and man is it so much better suited to me than the mainstream bands were.  And we're not even into Katatonia's best stuff yet.  "Right Into the Bliss" was another of those first tracks for me so that opening guitar melody is so indelibly imprinted in my head I'm sure I could go 1,000 years without hearing it and still be able to hum it. 
For me the 90s was about grunge and also discovering Rush and Queensryche.  I think Tool is one of the only bands they've listened as an influence that I also listened so, though I know at least Jonas also likes Alice in Chains.  But the majority of the bands they list as influences I've never heard and maybe that's for the best, because this era of Katatonia sounds pretty unique to me.
 
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*For a long time I didn't know that "Nightmares By the Sea" wasn't written by Katatonia.  Kind of an unusual tone on the rhythm guitars in the verse, they almost sound like bass parts.  I just can't listen to Buckley's original without hearing Katatonia at this point. 
I remember thinking it didn't quite sound like the rest of the album, but I also probably looked at the liner notes right away and knew one of the songs would be a cover, so that doesn't really count. :)  But I do think they do a great job of making covers sound like their own.

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Jonas is very much still finding his voice here, but I think there's a definite improvement from Discouraged Ones.  I've said it before and will probably again - I'm very glad to have this opportunity to hear how his voice changed like this.  Most of the time, or at least as it relates to the bands I listen to, the singer may improve over time but even on their first album their voice is more set.  With Katatonia it's almost like witnessing someone learning how to sing and sharing it all with us.

Man, I could swear I made a similar comment, but was it about Jonas, or even earlier in this thread?  I'm gonna have to hunt for it, but I definitely agree with the sentiment, because it's so unusual to see, the majority of musicians appear at least mostly preformed by the time we hear their first works. 
I've tried to use this logic to convince a fan of their newer material to give the older stuff a few more listens - and they've started to be intrigued so maybe it will work. :)

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Favorite track: A Darkness Coming.
It's fascinating that we both picked "A Darkness Coming" as our favorite track from this album. 
Perhaps because it's undeniable. :)

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Maybe Bob Dylan really is the best lyric writer ever - I wouldn’t know, because I can’t stand his voice.

Hah, I see that we both share a distaste for Dylan.  Many times I've heard a song and liked it, discovered that it's a Dylan cover, but just can't get into the original because of his voice.
I can't think of an example off the top of my head, but I know this has happened to me as well.

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*Starting wtih the tour, this is definitely what I would consider as the iconic Katatonia lineup, with Jonas, Anders, Fredrik, Mattias, and Daniel, that they'd get four of their best albums out of.
For me... I'll be honest and say I don't really care who is in the band outside of Jonas and Anders.  I was concerned by one member leaving and will go into it when we get there, but it turned out completely fine in the end.  I'd certainly like the current lineup to stick around now.  And I imagine they don't want to deal with finding new members yet again either, so for their sakes, I hope it lasts.  But if someone leaves it won't be much of an issue for me.

Offline Lethean

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Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Tonight's Decision (1999)
« Reply #165 on: November 22, 2022, 07:38:58 PM »
Every time I do revisit, though, I enjoy it. And I love that you can still very much recognize Anders' signature riffing - especially in songs like For My Demons, In Death, A Song, Right Into the Bliss, No Good Can Come of This (the chorus). A Darkness Coming is a great song, and one where we start to see shades of what Katatonia would become. At first, I didn't know Nightmares by the Sea was a cover either (although the vocals had a different vibe)...always loved the part that starts around 2:20. Oh, and Dan Swano's drumming on the album is cool, and it of course gives the whole thing a very different feel, right from the start.

So, overall not among my favorites... and yet it's another enjoyable slab of dark, melancholic rock from these good ol' jolly Swedes  :biggrin:

It's not one of my favorites of theirs either... yet I like it an awful lot.  I listen to both this album and Discouraged Ones when I really want to listen to Katatonia but feel like I've been listening to the later albums too much. :) 

Offline The Realm

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Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Tonight's Decision (1999)
« Reply #166 on: November 22, 2022, 08:06:03 PM »
Tonight's Decision was my introduction to Katatonia so for that reason it has a special place for me but I have not listened to the whole album in a very long time. I enjoy it for what it is but this is definitely still a band finding their feet.

On the whole I find the vocals fairly weak with only some minor hints of the vocalist Jonas would become. Some of the guitar work and musical ideas are great, the drumming is fairly pedestrian though.

Great writes ups though - Lethean and Litho. Really looking forward to the next few albums, I think I will have a lot more to say then.
 

Offline LithoJazzoSphere

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Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Tonight's Decision (1999)
« Reply #167 on: November 22, 2022, 08:16:14 PM »
I can either listen to the album or read the writeups. I don't have time for both! :lol

You have by far the highest post count on the forum, you'll find time for it somewhere.  Maybe you'll only have 62k posts by the end of the year rather than 63k.  :p

For me the 90s was about grunge and also discovering Rush and Queensryche.  I think Tool is one of the only bands they've listened as an influence that I also listened so, though I know at least Jonas also likes Alice in Chains.  But the majority of the bands they list as influences I've never heard and maybe that's for the best, because this era of Katatonia sounds pretty unique to me.

I've listened to pretty much everyone they cite as an influence, and I think it helps increase my appreciation for how they synthesize everything together.  And they still sound quite unique in spite of seeing where they've pulled some of their ideas from.  You're either a little older than me or got into the cooler music more quickly than I did.  A high school friend turned me onto Rush in '98, but I don't think I even knew who Queensryche was until the early 00s after getting into DT and slowly exploring the US prog metal scene. 

For me... I'll be honest and say I don't really care who is in the band outside of Jonas and Anders.  I was concerned by one member leaving and will go into it when we get there, but it turned out completely fine in the end.  I'd certainly like the current lineup to stick around now.  And I imagine they don't want to deal with finding new members yet again either, so for their sakes, I hope it lasts.  But if someone leaves it won't be much of an issue for me.

Dunno if it's the same member, but for me Katatonia is Jonas, Anders, and Daniel.  And I've had fun thinking of Mike and Dan as honorary earlier members.  I suspect I may gain some appreciation for the Norrman brothers as we go through the next few albums, but overall everyone else is quite replaceable to me. 
« Last Edit: November 22, 2022, 08:22:10 PM by LithoJazzoSphere »

Offline Lethean

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Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Tonight's Decision (1999)
« Reply #168 on: November 22, 2022, 10:33:37 PM »

For me the 90s was about grunge and also discovering Rush and Queensryche.  I think Tool is one of the only bands they've listened as an influence that I also listened so, though I know at least Jonas also likes Alice in Chains.  But the majority of the bands they list as influences I've never heard and maybe that's for the best, because this era of Katatonia sounds pretty unique to me.

I've listened to pretty much everyone they cite as an influence, and I think it helps increase my appreciation for how they synthesize everything together.  And they still sound quite unique in spite of seeing where they've pulled some of their ideas from.  You're either a little older than me or got into the cooler music more quickly than I did.  A high school friend turned me onto Rush in '98, but I don't think I even knew who Queensryche was until the early 00s after getting into DT and slowly exploring the US prog metal scene. 
I wasn't really looking for anything specific at that time.  I just heard both Rush and Queensryche on the radio station that I was listening to in order to hear Alice in Chains and Soundgarden, etc.   I had no idea what prog was at that point - I was just hearing stuff that I liked.   I didn't get into DT until Six Degrees though.  And any other prog metal was around the same time, except I had heard a song or two of Fates Warning a couple years before.

Offline twosuitsluke

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Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Tonight's Decision (1999)
« Reply #169 on: November 23, 2022, 02:47:36 AM »
A lot to catch up on here  :blush

Between this thread, Lonestar's Top 50, my own roulette, and the ones I'm participating in, it's a struggle.

I listened to Discouraged Ones twice, and am aiming to do that for all the albums that come up in this thread.

I think Discouraged Ones was a bit of a step down for me. I liked the more extreme side they had with those early albums. Discouraged Ones was OK, but I feel moving forwards the change in style may leave me feeling that this band are 'fine', but not something I could truly love.

Listening to Tonight's Decision now and it's OK. The lyrics have jumped out at me a bit more on this release. Lethen, I agree with your general view that music first, and if the lyrics are good that's a bonus. I'm very much like this but I know if I make a concerted effort to listen to the lyrics in can help me appreciate more. It is easier if there is less crazy shit going on with the instruments, which is where this album sits.

We'll see how it stands up on second listen, there are some nice bits that have stuck out so far.

Offline nick_z

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Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Tonight's Decision (1999)
« Reply #170 on: November 23, 2022, 06:36:35 PM »
Plus there's old live video in my write up, and you should totally watch it. :)

Oh, I haven't commented on that...I haven't watched the whole thing yet, but it's such a cool document of that era! Didn't know it existed  :)

Offline LithoJazzoSphere

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Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Tonight's Decision (1999)
« Reply #171 on: November 23, 2022, 06:38:23 PM »
I didn't either.  Honestly Katatonia isn't the most exciting of bands to see live, but it is fun to see as a snapshot of that era. 

Offline Lethean

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Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Tonight's Decision (1999)
« Reply #172 on: November 23, 2022, 07:04:49 PM »
Yes, yes they are.  Maybe at one time they weren't, and I think they've acknowledged that. 

But they are now.  And have been since I've been seeing them live (2011).  I suppose it depends on what one is looking for - running side to side ala Bruce Dickinson isn't going to happen.  But they're always in motion, at least during the heavier parts and during their live set, there are a lot of those.

Offline LithoJazzoSphere

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Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Tonight's Decision (1999)
« Reply #173 on: November 23, 2022, 07:15:17 PM »
There are a lot of people far more into live music than me, and I just can't see Katatonia competing as a top act in that department.  Their music for me isn't really designed to be maximized in that setting. 

Offline Lethean

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Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Tonight's Decision (1999)
« Reply #174 on: November 23, 2022, 07:21:18 PM »
Well, those are different things.  "Top act" vs just being a good live band.  For me they're both, but I have no problems with them not being "top" for a lot of people.  But I will say this - I wasn't much of a fan the first time I saw them live and had no reason to be biased, and came away more than a little impressed.  And my friend who went to the same show thought the same, even though he only became a casual fan of the band.