Official D+ Marvel Cinematic Universe shows countdown--And the winner is...

[Lonk]

...centered around the best D+ casting ever of Iman Vellani, talk about perfect.

I think she was the one that carried this show for me. I really liked this show, and while I know I wasn't the targeted demographic, I was still able to enjoy every episode. Plus, very subtle way of introducing Mutants to the MCU.

[hefdaddy42]

Fun, fun show.  I really appreciated how they went out of their way to make it different than anything else in the MCU, but still grounded in that same world.  The casting was insanely good, for all the roles.

[The Letter M]

1 ?
2 ?
3 Ms. Marvel
4 Moon Knight
5 ?
6 She-Hulk
7 What If...?
8 The Falcon And The Winter Soldier

I had Ms. Marvel at third place. Definitely my favorite of the shows this year, with a ton of world building and a great cast. The family was so central to the plot that they felt as important as anyone else in the show. I'll agree that the Clandestines were a bit hokey and their inclusion felt a bit hand-waived at times, but everything else was so enjoyable that I can give it a pass.

-Marc.

[MinistroRaven]

Number 7 for me. I disliked it a lot only she hulk was able to put this on step ahead of that one. I never connected with this, the poor writing and even some of the characters were too goofy.

[bosk1]

And coming in at #3...Loki.

Highest:  #1:  (MinistroRaven, TheLetterM, hefdaddy42, Vmadera00, jammindude, axeman90210)
Lowest:  #6  (ZirconBlue)

First off, let me say that Loki missed the #2 spot by 1 point!  For awhile, I thought it might take the top spot, given all the first place finishes.  But it got some low ones as well, and our top finisher was much more consistently in the top 2.

I ranked Loki at #4, personally.  It was a good show.  It seemed to bog down a bit in the middle when Loki and Sylvie were together, but finished strong.  And even though the last episode was VERT exposition heavy, it worked in the context of the show.  The every unfolding mystery of what was going on was well done.  The asthetics were really, really nice.  The main downside for me was that the character arcs didn't seem all that strong.  Loki definitely had the biggest arc, which he should have.  But the problem was, even though I know this is a different Loki than the one we have grown with during the MCU Infinity Saga, we know where that character ended up, so this Loki's character arc felt like, "yeah, yeah.  We already know where he ends up in terms of his inner character, so let's get on with it and get him there."  And Sylvie's arc...I just found it hard to overly care.  But despite that, this show was a lot of fun, and I really loved so many things about it.  I fully expected the Kang reveal at the end, so I wasn't wowed by the reveal itself.  But I thought the character was REALLY well done.  I think I'd say, overall, this show probably exceeded my expectations.


Question for you all:  Since there are only 2 spots left, and we will know what the #1 is as soon as #2 is revealed, should I do them both together, or still wait for #1?

[The Letter M]

1 Loki
2 ?
3 Ms. Marvel
4 Moon Knight
5 ?
6 She-Hulk
7 What If...?
8 The Falcon And The Winter Soldier

Wow, Loki was third?! Color me surprised, especially since I figured it was more well-liked than most of the others, especially one of the remaining two shows. Seeing Tom Hiddleston take the character into new and interesting places made for a very entertaining show, and everyone else in the cast was superb. Loki also feels like the start of the Multiverse Saga proper, introducing Variants and alternate timelines, and of course Kang (or He Who Remains). It's also the only show to officially get a second season, so I'm very excited for that next year!

Question for you all:  Since there are only 2 spots left, and we will know what the #1 is as soon as #2 is revealed, should I do them both together, or still wait for #1?

I say keep them separate so we have time to discuss each show separately.

-Marc.

[axeman90210]

I've got a bunch of catching up to do, mostly because I forgot what my list was after I sent it to bosk

What If- I had this at 6. I enjoyed this one a good bit, it was a good platform to tell some fun alternate stories within the MCU Definitely appreciated that they got some of the live-action actors to do the voice acting as well.

She Hulk- #5 on my list. I enjoyed the different tone and I thought Tatiana was wonderful in the title role. All the material with Daredevil was a highlight, and it was good to see Blonsky back as well.

Falcon & Winter Soldier- This was at the bottom for me. It wasn't a bad show, it just never grabbed me like a lot of the others did. I found a lot of the stuff around Sam wrestling with reconciling being Captain America as a black man in this country to be compelling, but most of the plot machinations were a big meh.

Moonknight- Came in 7th. Oscar Isaac was superb, but when this show got weird at times it tended to lose me a bit. Still, I'll be curious to see Moonknight going forward in the MCU.

Ms Marvel- I ranked this at #4. Charming lead and an overall great vibe/style make up for the cardboard villains and got this one into the top half for me.

Loki- Top of my list. It goes without saying how great Tom Hiddleston has been as Loki, right from his first appearance in Thor, so a six episode showcase from him was always going to rank highly for me. I found the series built around him to be utterly captivating though, all the way through the big Jonathan Majors debut in the finale. Obviously there are huge implications for the rest of tje MCU, and I'm very happy we're getting a season 2.

[lonestar]

I had Loki at #4, but I'd consider it pretty much interchangeable with Ms Marvel at 3. Outstanding show, solid writing throughout, only weak spot was the crappy action sequences. I rewatched this one last week and they just stand out like sore thumbs. Pretty sure my no. 1 and 2 will reflect the official list.


8- What if?
7- Moonknight
6- She-Hulk
5- Falcon and the Winter Soldier
4- Loki
3-Ms Marvel
2-
1-

[Lonk]

This is surprising, I was expecting Loki to be #1 or #2. I loved this show, the story felt cohesive and concise. The way I see it, There were no wasted moments in this show as everything had some meaning to the overall story. And while I cringed a little at the weird love story, it still felt well suited for the plot. Plus, the final episode was so different than what everyone was expecting and I think it elevated the story that much more.

I plan on seeing this show again in the coming weeks 

[hefdaddy42]

I enjoyed Loki very much (ranked it # 1).  10 pounds of fun in a five pound bag.

[bosk1]

I think Loki finishing at #3 is just a reflection of the relatively small sample size of lists.  I think if more people participated, it would have mitigated the outlying lower votes, and Loki would have finished solidly in the #2 spot.  Remember--it was only a single point behind the show that ultimately finished #2.

I think my primary reason for ranking it at #4 is simply that I give a LOT of weight to character arc in these shows, and my 1-3 just had stronger character arcs in the end.  (Although I think TFATWS arguably had the strongest character arcs of all, when you take Sam, Bucky, Zemo, and even Walker into account--each and every one of them grew tremendously from the time they were introduced to the final episode)

Plus, the final episode was so different than what everyone was expecting and I think it elevated the story that much more.

I completely agree. 

[The Realm]

Loki - number 5 for me. Lots of good here and I think this is one that would probably be elevated on my list if I did a rewatch.

[jammindude]

My #1. Just a fantastic show from beginning to end. Loki’s story arc is beautiful. The introduction of Kang is perfection. I’m looking forward to rewatching before Quantumania.

[bosk1]

#2:  Hawkeye

Highest:  #1 (faizoff, ZirconBlue, DarkChestofWonders)
Lowest:  #5  (TheLetterM)

I'm a sucker for holiday stuff that is done halfway decently, but this show was just an all-around joy.  "The Meh-Avenger" really got some serious character development in Endgame and this series, and it paid off hugely.  Loved the family vibe.  Loved Clint's personal struggles and character arc.  Loved Kate.  Loved the owl.  Loved the Track Suits, bro.  I think I loved just about everything.

Only downside I can think of is that the watch was a bit of a headscratcher, and making Mrs. Hawkeye into Mockingbird was yet another diss at Agents of SHIELD, which makes me sad.

[The Letter M]

1 Loki
2 ?
3 Ms. Marvel
4 Moon Knight
5 Hawkeye
6 She-Hulk
7 What If...?
8 The Falcon And The Winter Soldier

Even though I have it fifth, Hawkeye was quite enjoyable. Honestly, 3rd-5th were pretty close for me, but I think I had MM and MK ahead of Hawkeye was because of recency bias. I feel like Hawkeye, the series, definitely deserves a 2nd place spot, but just not from me. I should rewatch it next month though and see if I change my mind on that.

-Marc.

[Lonk]

I think I had this at #4. Fun show with a good story 

[Dream Team]

I think I had Loki #5. I like the characterization from the first 3 movies he was in, but "Bro" Loki doesn't land for me, at all. Some interesting stuff story-wise though of course.

[axeman90210]

#3 for me. I'd echo a lot of what bosk said as far as things to like. I think Jeremy Renner has always been good as Hawkeye, he just hasn't had much real material to work with until Endgame, and that momentum carries through to the show. Hailee Steinfeld is good as Kate Bishop on her own, and she has great chemistry with Renner, not to mention Florence Pugh. Tracksuit Mafia were great comic relief, it was great to see Vincent D'Onofrio back in action as Kingpin, and the action scenes were generally solid. The execution on Hawkeye was on par with my top two shows (and arguably better in some cases), it's only ranked below them due to the material being less weighty/less overall impactful to the MCU as a whole.

[hefdaddy42]

I loved this show.  I forgot where I ranked it, but it was just complete fun and entertainment.  I look forward to re-watching as part of my Christmas programming.

[Dream Team]

Hawkeye was #2 for me. After it got going, I was very invested in seeing how they were going to set up the final confrontation between him and Nat's sister.

[The Realm]

Hawkeye was my number 3. Really enjoyable fun show.

[lonestar]

#2 for me...I think this was the best developed story of the lot, very thorough, and perfectly told. On top of that, it had solid humor on all fronts, and absolutely tremendous chemistry not only between Kate and Clint, but also between Kate and Yelena. The Mac-n-cheese scene and they're fight scene are absolutely priceless. Also, Clint's emotional journey weaved throughout the show is so damn good. Hawkeye is definitely top notch. This would've been #1 for me if the #1 wasn't what it is, but more on that later.

[jammindude]

Loved Hawkeye! It was by far the best of the shows that weren’t in my top 3. 

Had it at #4

[bosk1]

...and just in time for the weekend...  Coming in at #1...WandaVision

Highest ranking:  #1 (Adami, lonestar, DreamTeam, TheRealm, bosk1)
Lowest:  #4 (faizoff, ZirconBlue)

WandaVision is the clear runaway winner with 98 points--11 better than the #2 show, Hawkeye.  In addition to 5 out of 14 first place finishes among the voters, it got 6 second place votes.  Even though Loki got 6 first place votes, other votes were all over the place.

I loved this show from the get go.  The asthetic and concept of the first few episodes were just incredible.  I loved the character arcs and the fact that we were kept off balance and unsure of what was REALLY going on right up until the end.  Every twist was well done.  Loved Agatha.  And even though we got a huge exposition dump from her at the end, it totally fit the character they had built for her up to that point as the nosey neighbor who loved to talk herself up and share too much.  Ultimately, this show was about deep emotional trauma and pain, and it was handled so well and so creatively.  You couldn't watch it and NOT feel for Wanda, and the show's ability to make us genuinely feel something and do it in a way that still somehow managed to be fun and exciting are its best attribute, IMO.

Two VERY minor downsides:
-The cuts because of Covid.  Knowing that Dr. Strange was supposed to be involved (and how), and that Mr. Scratchy was supposed to be a full-on demon, and that we didn't end up getting those because of Covid are kind of downers.  Both would have been cool and made the show even better.
-I think the impact of the Darkhold could have been shown more.  We were TOLD what it does, but not really SHOWN, except ever so briefly.  Ultimately, it's not really a problem for this show.  It's more a problem with Multiverse of Madness.  And arguably, it may have been a distraction from what was really important in this show.  But it could have made Multiverse of Madness a lot better and hit a lot harder emotionally, and MoM failed in that regard.

[hefdaddy42]

Great, great show.  No problems at all with this placement.

[Lonk]

I loved this show from the get go.  The asthetic and concept of the first few episodes were just incredible.  I loved the character arcs and the fact that we were kept off balance and unsure of what was REALLY going on right up until the end.  Every twist was well done.  Loved Agatha.  And even though we got a huge exposition dump from her at the end, it totally fit the character they had built for her up to that point as the nosey neighbor who loved to talk herself up and share too much.  Ultimately, this show was about deep emotional trauma and pain, and it was handled so well and so creatively.  You couldn't watch it and NOT feel for Wanda, and the show's ability to make us genuinely feel something and do it in a way that still somehow managed to be fun and exciting are its best attribute, IMO.

Two VERY minor downsides:
-The cuts because of Covid.  Knowing that Dr. Strange was supposed to be involved (and how), and that Mr. Scratchy was supposed to be a full-on demon, and that we didn't end up getting those because of Covid are kind of downers.  Both would have been cool and made the show even better.
-I think the impact of the Darkhold could have been shown more.  We were TOLD what it does, but not really SHOWN, except ever so briefly.  Ultimately, it's not really a problem for this show.  It's more a problem with Multiverse of Madness.  And arguably, it may have been a distraction from what was really important in this show.  But it could have made Multiverse of Madness a lot better and hit a lot harder emotionally, and MoM failed in that regard.

My #2. I agree with pretty much all of this. Only reason why it wasn't my #1 is because for me, Loki held a lot more weight to the MCU as a whole, and I thought the conclusion of the show was a bit inconsistent with the rest of it. The bolded is one of the reasons why MoM failed for me. Not much to say there since this is about the show, but just saying.

[Adami]

Was a bit busy over the past week so haven't participated much. Plus I can't remember my list other than What If being last and Wanda being 1 and Loki being 2.

Overall, I've enjoyed all of the shows but most of them definitely lack a solid through line. They blend single episode plots and season long plots that don't always work out too well. I think all of them (minus What If?) were really great in some ways and lacking in others, with some obviously more than others. Wanda just had the through line that worked perfectly with the episode by episode style as well. Except the very ending which felt tacked on and rushed, but I can blame COVID for whatever.

Hoping they get a better sense of what a show should look like. They can try doing less and that way they can really flesh out what they ARE doing and not have 80 moving pieces at a time, with 60 of them feeling super unresolved.

[Dream Team]

The obvious #1 . . . even if Lizzie wasn’t my muse I probably still would have had it first. Excellently written and acted, and set up Dr Strange MoM perfectly.

[lonestar]

Easily my favorite, and quite possible my favorite MCU product outside of the Netflix shows (Daredevil S1 and Punisher S1 will be very, very hard to top as a Marvel product for me, they're both just so damn perfect)

So, one of the most unique concepts for a show, and executed perfectly. Writing, production, flow, everything done with such care. The throwbacks of each episode to their respective eras was done with such amazing care, to the point where each had their own era specific theme song and intro, and they even actually had a live studio audience for the first two. Who the fuck even does that anymore? And lastly, the acting....Lizzie and Paul absolutely crushed their roles, really bringing the show to another level. There were a few scenes, namely the 'grief' scene and the 'what am I' scene where that collusion of writing, acting, and production came together so brilliantly that they both still can bring me to tears even after seeing them many, many times. Bettany really gets the best lines in the MCU.

Thanks for doing this one Bosk, would love one of the MCU films too, that'd be an interesting list for sure.

[bosk1]

Thanks for doing this one Bosk, would love one of the MCU films too, that'd be an interesting list for sure.

I am definitely doing it.  But big issue I am grappling with is to do just the Infinity Saga (phases 1-3) or wait just a bit to give time for folks to see Wakanda Forever, and do 1-4 together.  Here is the logic for each:
-1-3 is the logical choice for so many reasons.  It is THE definitive MCU story.  And although the story continues into the future, it is somewhat contained and makes sense to do as a single entity.
-1-4:  The main logic behind doing it this way is that I REALLY want to see where people rank the phase 4 films compared to phases 1-3.  I am so curious to see how that would shake out. 

Thoughts and opinions on that are welcome.

Also, do you guys think you could drum up support for others to participate?  It seems a shame to have something as big as the MCU and only 14 participants.  Would love to have a bigger sample size to rank the films, if possible.

[Adami]

I agree with doing 1-3, but whatever you do, I'm in.

And also thanks for doing this. Seems like a ton of work and I really appreciate it.

[bosk1]

And also thanks for doing this. Seems like a ton of work and I really appreciate it.

Happy to.  And I'm going to deflect some of the thanks to Kev.  Even though he wasn't directly involved in this one, he basically invented the process to make it a lot easier than it otherwise would be.  With 8 shows and 14 voters, it really wasn't that hard at all.  It will definitely take more effort with the films since there are more options.  But still, with what are basically Kev's processes, it shouldn't be too bad.  That man deserves a ton of credit.

[axeman90210]

I agree with doing 1-3, but whatever you do, I'm in.

And also thanks for doing this. Seems like a ton of work and I really appreciate it.

All of this.

[Lonk]

I'm ok with 1-3 or 1-4. I think my Phase 4 ranking is set and I wouldn't struggle with it.

And yes, Thank you for running this, looking forward to the movie ranking 

[axeman90210]

Wandavision came in just a hair behind Loki on my list, but it really was excellent. The framing device for the first few episodes was very cool and the series overall was a great study of coping with death and loss. Elizabeth Olsen was impressive in holding a show with so many different styles and moods together with her performance.