NBA 2023 CAPSTONE **DENVER NUGGETS FIRST CHAMPIONSHIP**

[Azyiu]

I was merely responding to your displeasure over the votes he received. I think I am a rare one here, and I think today's ASG is indeed a popularity contest; and it is one of those few events fans can actually participate. The thing is, aside from 2001 and 2003, ASGs are almost never truly competitive anyway. Just let the fans vote.

[Samsara]

The voting is such BS. Absolute BS. Fans should be taken out of it completely. It shouldn't be a popularity contest. It should be about who is playing at an all star level.

All coaches (HCs and assistants) should vote for the all stars, with the rule that they cannot vote for anyone on their own teams. Then give fans, once the all stars are selected, the ability to vote who starts for each team. That would be fine.

I would get behind that, but it's still vulnerable to BS voting. At the end of the day, the All-Star games are mainly for the fans, there isn't much on the line, win or lose.

Not really BS voting, as I think coaches would be way less biased than the ballot box-stuffing fans. We'd get a true representation of all stars. Letting fans have an impact on the All Star Voting is wrong. Player contract incentives are sometimes based on making the team. And while the fan vote is just a portion of that, it is so widely skewed because of the ballot box stuffing, it's unfair.

Let the coaches be responsible and pick the all stars. Then let the fans choose the starting lineups for each squad. It gives fans something important to do (and lets them stuff the ballot), but the actual "all stars" are selected by people involved in the game.

Andrew Wiggins should NOT have been an all star last year, and he should not be one this year. Westbrook should not be one this year. So many idiots voting for people just to be contrary. It's ridiculous. My family and I didn't bother to watch last year. We watched the All Star Saturday Night, but despite Towns making the squad, we had no interest in the game. No interest in watching a guy like Wiggins, who took the spot of someone who deserved it way more, run around and parade like he's this big thing.

[LithoJazzoSphere]

'22 playoffs Wiggins was definitely an all-star, but regular season, no. 

[Samsara]

The all star voting is even worse now. Last I looked, guys like Derrick Rose, Kevin Looney, etc., were all in the top-10. Need to fix this. Fans are important. But this is dumb. It's just uber stupid people stuffing the ballot box for their teams. It's beyond idiotic.

Anyway. Frustrating game last night for the Wolves against the Raptors. That Raptors starting 5 is, to me, one of the best starting units in the league. They just have no depth. Wolves fortunate to have gotten hot at the right time and squeaked it out. Third game in a row for the WOlves like that. They are 1-2. Crazy they are the 7th seed at 23-24...and are like 1.5 games out of 4th. LOL.

Trade deadline should be wild. I could see Trent Jr. headed to Minnesota. For what though, I'm not sure. Edwards, Towns, McDaniels are off the table. But everyone else is available, I'm thinking. D Lo has a 31 mil slot, so...

[LithoJazzoSphere]

The 3rd place Kings having only 5 more wins than the 13th place Lakers is just bonkers. 

[Azyiu]

The 3rd place Kings having only 5 more wins than the 13th place Lakers is just bonkers.

The thing about this season is the Lakers are not terrible. If AD was healthy and playing how he was before injury they would be in the mix since, aside from Denver and recently surging Memphis, the west is pretty open this season.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

The 3rd place Kings having only 5 more wins than the 13th place Lakers is just bonkers.

The thing about this season is the Lakers are not terrible. If AD was healthy and playing how he was before injury they would be in the mix since, aside from Denver and recently surging Memphis, the west is pretty open this season.

It really stinks how he just can't stay healthy. It's been a problem to one extent or another his whole career. I'm sure he's feeling pretty frustrated at this point. He's such a great talent when he's on the court... I hope that he can finish out the season strong!

[Lonk]

He's expected to return within the next 2 weeks, so we will see if he's able to stay healthy until the end of the season. It sucks for the Lakers that they started the season in such a bad form (2-10), given that they've been descent since (20-15). I expect them to make the playoffs, but not sure how far they'll go.

[LithoJazzoSphere]

The Lakers really ought to go all in and upgrade their roster with their two picks.  With LBJ and AD still both capable of playing at MVP levels, and the lack of separation other than the top two in the conference, they still have a shot this year.  Next year, all bets are off.  What LeBron has been doing is unprecedented, even MJ, KAJ, and Malone weren't putting up his numbers at 38.  He's staved decline off better than pretty much any other player in history, but at some point it will catch up to him, and it could very easily come next year.  Look at how rapidly CP3 has fallen off this one. 

[Lonk]

I think what's hurting the Lakers more is that Westbrook contract. You could get 2 players that can give you the same numbers as Westbrook for that salary or less.

[Azyiu]

Knowing we could not get Kuzma back without a 1st round pick, we get a wing nonetheless out of Nunn and THREE 2nd round picks. Hachimura averages 13 and 5 in DC with a 33% average behind the 3-point line. Those numbers aren't spectacular, hopefully, his size helps us up front. He is also going to be a restricted FA this summer. We could keep him for the long-term if things work out.

I think Westbrook more or less has redeemed himself after playing pretty well off the bench. The Lakers are likely going to keep him for the rest of the season and let his salary goes off the book this summer. If interest for him remains low this summer, we could possibly keep him for relatively cheap.

[Lonk]

Not the move I expected from Lakers, but it helps I guess

[Samsara]

Hachimura is a solid, solid rotation wing. He'll be gunning for an extension, which means the Lakers aren't the best team to play for (stats will suffer with Lebron being so ball dominant), but I really like this get for the Lakers. Also, meant to mention this earlier, Thomas Bryant is a stud. He's been injured, and now that he is completely healthy and getting an opportunity, he's soaring. I know AD is AD, but Bryant gives the Lakers a really top notch big man with outside touch.

I don't expect the Lakers to go away. They will rise in the second half, depending on health. Frankly, I think they should now stand pat with who they have. Let the Westbrook contract play out. He's been good as a sixth man.

[Lonk]

Was reading that yesterday, Lebron became the first player to score 40 against every team in the league. Impressive even though they lost. Also, AD is supposed to play tonight. I agree that Bryant has been pretty good while AD was out, but a bit inconsistent at times.

I want to try and make the Lakers-Knicks game next week, but I am finding it hard to justify the ticket price 

[Samsara]

Ticket prices are ridiculous league-wide. Where I live, I have a friend who works for the local NBA team. He gets me good tickets without all the fees and at a discount. And it's still high. We're seeing the Timberwolves twice when they come into town, and it's just plain stupid how much they cost. We pony it up because my entire family loves our Wolves, but it certainly hits the wallet hard.

Should be a good game with the Wolves and Grizzlies tonight. Fucking hate Desmond Bane. What a punk. Hoping we can gut punch those fools tonight before we get back to back games against the Kings...who are good, but I swear they are playing way above their talent level. Hope we can nab one of those.

[T-ski]

Speaking of prices, there was an article that listed the best value for each team. Shocked when the Bucks were listed as 10th most expensive for a family of four. Hard for me to justify traveling almost three hours from where I live to see a game.

[crazy climber dude]

A bit more hype than usual for the 76ers/Nuggets game tomorrow on ABC. It's a good matchup of teams, but of course most of the spice is from the Embiid/Jokic matchup.

It's a carryover from previous seasons MVP races, and amplified by Embiid not being a starter in the upcoming All Star Game (despite leading the league in scoring). That omission might be more of an emphasis of the positions for the All Star Game than a respect thing with Embiid himself, but I can definitely understand the frustration. There's no question Embiid is not getting the respect he has earned at this point. It's interesting, though....despite Jokic being the two time reigning.... and getting serious talk about the extremely rare threepeat for.... MVP, there is still a faction of sportswriters and fans who do not embrace or appreciate his unique talents. I think THAT is more where he plays and the lack of exposure compared to other stars (and his low key demeanor).

I think it's a healthy rivalry. They both dominate in their own ways at the center position. And so the matchup has some additional intrigue to be sure. The consensus seems to be that Joel will have some extra juice for playing well tomorrow....but I think there is a mutual respect between the two players, so the idea of there being animosity is not well founded.

Speaking of the All Star Game, who are your biggest snubs and/or overachievers in the voting?

[King Postwhore]

Tatum got away with that foul on LeBron.   Clearly hit his shooting arm.

[Azyiu]

We played like crap in the final 50 seconds or so in OT, but I do feel like we got robbed TWICE toward the end of regulation. AD got called for a loose ball foul and that last foul on LeBron by Tatum in the closing seconds... Like JVG said during the broadcast, if the refs won't or couldn't review that final play at that point, then what is the point of instant replay anyway?

[King Postwhore]

Completely agree. That's why in all sports, I hate replay. 

[KevShmev]

I, for one, am stunned that a call was missed or wrong in the critical moment of an NBA game.



 

[King Postwhore]

Just wait today Kev. We'll see it in 2 games today in the NFL. 

[TheOutlawXanadu]

Yea, that call was brutal. A lot of people are pinning it on some kind of conspiracy, perhaps related to how deep the NBA has gotten in with gambling, but honestly I feel like the more likely explanation is just that some of these refs are really bad.

[Azyiu]

One last comment about that missed call... the funniest thing wasn't LeBron's immediate reaction, rather that bit where Beveley showed the ref he missed that call on a camera and got a technical foul out of that was funny as hell, Lol!

LeBron is so close to passing Kareem's all-time scoring total. I think he will make it happen on the 10th at home against the team Kareem once played for, the Bucks.

[Samsara]

The refs in the NBA have gotten really, really bad. The game happens fast. But something needs to be done.

I feel like Lebron will time it so that he passes the record at home. Despite me not liking his demeanor, I have nothing but respect for him as an all time great basketball player. While this era doesn't play defense, and I have to believe his career would be several years shorter if he went through what Bird and Jordan did, Lebron's a big guy. He has the skills and body to be one of the greats in ANY era. And that's how I define greatness in the NBA. Would the player be able to play at the same level in any era? If the answer is yes, that player is an all time great to me.

Lebron clearly is one. As was Kobe. As was Jordan. etc.

For me, as game-changing as say Curry has been, I think he'd probably be slightly better than his father if he played in his dad's era. Steph would average 18 ppg, likely as a starter or sixth man. I think Steph would probably be, offensively, on average, what he was for his first three years....for an entire career. When Del played (who is 2 inches taller, and in his prime 10 lbs heavier), teams could hand-check and really rough up smaller guys. I don't think Steph would excel. better shooter than his dad, but Steph would get beat up a LOT in that era. I actually think Klay Thompson is a better overall "all era" player. I feel like his size, defensive prowess, etc., would have made him just as good in the 80s and 90s.

Curry just came to mind, but I am planning to sit down and look at a bunch of current stars and see who i think (again, just my personal opinion) who would legitimately "cross eras" and be just as effective.

But Lebron - clearly, one of the best basketball players to every play the game. I appreciate greatness.

[Azyiu]

For me, as game-changing as say Curry has been, I think he'd probably be slightly better than his father if he played in his dad's era. Steph would average 18 ppg, likely as a starter or sixth man. I think Steph would probably be, offensively, on average, what he was for his first three years....for an entire career. When Del played (who is 2 inches taller, and in his prime 10 lbs heavier), teams could hand-check and really rough up smaller guys. I don't think Steph would excel. better shooter than his dad, but Steph would get beat up a LOT in that era. I actually think Klay Thompson is a better overall "all era" player. I feel like his size, defensive prowess, etc., would have made him just as good in the 80s and 90s.

I respectfully disagree with you on Steph. I think he would still be great if he was playing in his dad's era. Shooters in that older era were mostly catch-and-shoot guys, aside from Reggie, guys like Dennis Scott and Dale Ellis etc. were THE 3-pt specialists and were mostly one-dimensional. Steph on the other hand is a completely different type of player. He can shoot and dribble and best of all, his passing skills are exceptional. Unlike his dad or those guys I mentioned, Steph doesn't have to always score a lot of points to hurt you. On top of that, as rough as the defense was in the 90s, they played rather conservatively and rarely trap, challenge or chase after the 3-pt shooter beyond the arc. In a way, they dared you to shoot the 3 ball back in those days. If the defense switches onto him, Steph is smart enough and able to adjust accordingly. Unless you physically beat him up, I don't recall too many guys in the 90s who could have shadowed Sheph effectively.

[Samsara]

I respectfully disagree with you on Steph. I think he would still be great if he was playing in his dad's era. Shooters in that older era were mostly catch-and-shoot guys, aside from Reggie, guys like Dennis Scott and Dale Ellis etc. were THE 3-pt specialists and were mostly one-dimensional. Steph on the other hand is a completely different type of player. He can shoot and dribble and best of all, his passing skills are exceptional. Unlike his dad or those guys I mentioned, Steph doesn't have to always score a lot of points to hurt you. On top of that, as rough as the defense was in the 90s, they played rather conservatively and rarely trap, challenge or chase after the 3-pt shooter beyond the arc. In a way, they dared you to shoot the 3 ball back in those days. If the defense switches onto him, Steph is smart enough and able to adjust accordingly. Unless you physically beat him up, I don't recall too many guys in the 90s who could have shadowed Sheph effectively.

You make great points for sure. But the bolded is key. Plenty of guys could have shadowed Steph. Steph is a great dribbler, but he's not "fast" per se. He's just crafty. And that's the thing. He WOULD get beat up. Big time. Remember the defense from that era. You drive, you get POUNDED. Steph wouldn't survive that well. I'm not saying he'd be relegated to a Steve Kerr type of specialist position. Not at all. Steph would be player to take note of. I just don't think he'd be able to score as effectively in that era. Payton would eat him up. So would MJ. Kidd would muscle the hell out of him. Steph is the best pure shooter outside of Bird that I've ever seen. Quickest release I've seen too. He'd be able to score. But not at the rate he does now.

re: All Star snubs. Fox and Edwards got absolutely broadsided. Unreal. Zion's played 29 games. He shouldn't have even been on the team. So silly.

[Samsara]

re: revamping the All Star system

I have given the NBA All Star program a lot of thought, and I've come up with a solution that should work for everyone involved.

1. There should be a total of 40 players selected for the All Star game. 20 per conference, with a minimum of 1 player per team.

2. All Stars should be selected by an All Star Committee, which would need to be established annually, in the preseason. The committee should be made up of retired nba coaches (assistants and head coaches) and current members of the NBA broadcast media (play-by-play and color, both TV and radio). The individual committee members are not permitted to vote for players from any franchise they coached/worked for.

3. The committee's 40 selections are then presented, with the fans deciding who the 10 starters are by voting (the usual methods now in place).

4. Any player that is injured and cannot participate, is replaced by a vote of current NBA head coaches, who cannot select someone from their own teams.

5. Other than the starting 5 for each team (who as mentioned before, are selected by the fans), it is at the discretion of the head coaches of the respective teams who plays and doesn't play in the game.

Done in this manner, I believe it would be a fair and balanced way for the All Star teams to be established and recognize the players who truly deserve the honor.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

I feel quite confident that Steph would dominate in any era with a three-point line. Reggie Miller comes to mind as a useful comparison - He was taller than Curry but just as skinny (185 lbs), an inferior ballhandler, an inferior passer, and a worse shooter, and yet he was still able to make All-NBA Teams and play effectively against great defenses like the Knicks and Bulls. If Miller could have the impact he did in the defense-heavy 90s and early 00s, then I see no reason Curry couldn't.

[Samsara]

I feel quite confident that Steph would dominate in any era with a three-point line. Reggie Miller comes to mind as a useful comparison - He was taller than Curry but just as skinny (185 lbs), an inferior ballhandler, an inferior passer, and a worse shooter, and yet he was still able to make All-NBA Teams and play effectively against great defenses like the Knicks and Bulls. If Miller could have the impact he did in the defense-heavy 90s and early 00s, then I see no reason Curry couldn't.

Reggie Miller is a great comparison. But he was also wiry strong and five inches taller than Curry. Curry gets popped off the block whenever anyone posts him up. Whereas Miller could handle any shooting guard. I would argue Miller was a great shooter in that era, and would be just maybe a shade worse than Curry in this era. Again, it's all about handling defenses. Curry would get beat up. His dad got beat up, and his dad had a bigger body. I'm not trying to throw shade on Steph Curry. As I said, other than Bird, he's the best shooter I've seen. But Curry is a horrendous defender. He's not stopping anyone.

Take Iverson - a volume scorer for sure. But that mo fo made life a living hell for you. Iverson was generously listed at 6' (he was barely 5'10") and listed at 165 (he might have been 150). But Iverson thrived because of his tenacity and athleticism. Curry has nowhere near the athleticism of Iverson, nor that of Reggie Miller.

Remember, I did say I thought Curry would be a 18-20 ppg scorer in the 80s/90s. He absolutely would be. He's better than his dad. But he'd get worn down quickly. That's my thing with Curry. He's...soft. Talented as F. But soft. I'd take Thompson on my team over him any day.

Another player I don't think would make it as high as he has now, if he played back in the day, is Kristaps Porzingis. The supposed "unicorn" is great. But I don't see him being much better than Joe Smith in an era where hand-checking and rough defense is part of the game. To me, Porzingis is Rik Smits, just with 3 point range.

[KevShmev]

I don't think we can assume things don't change if a player played in a different era.  If Curry played in an era where players were allowed to be more physical, it is very possible that he would have beefed up a bit to take the extra pounding.  That is what Jordan did when the Pistons got rough with them in several playoff series; he put on some muscle to handle the physical play. 

With the way Curry can shoot, he would have been a superstar in any era since I've been watching (the 80s).  Reggie Miller, one of the most overrated players ever, is a freaking peasant compared to Curry.

[Lonk]

So now Irving wants to be traded 

[Lonk]

Aannndd there goes Irving to Dallas, and I actually think it's a good trade for both teams.

[T-ski]

Ja Morant may be in deep trouble if these gang reports are true.

[Azyiu]

Ja Morant may be in deep trouble if these gang reports are true.

Did you mean the red laser incident in the loading dock after the Pacers game or something else? If you meant the former, the NBA security had concluded that "they could not corroborate that any individual threatened others with a weapon"; but those involved are not banned from the FedexForum.