NBA 2023 CAPSTONE **DENVER NUGGETS FIRST CHAMPIONSHIP**

[Azyiu]

They still won, so it's fine. I expect a long series though.

How about Austin "Hillbilly Kobe" Reaves? 

[Lonk]

They still won, so it's fine. I expect a long series though.

How about Austin "Hillbilly Kobe" Reaves? 

Honestly, I don't expect the Lakers to get beyond the second round (If they even make it out of the first), but if they find a way to be consistent (Mainly Reaves, Hachimura and Russell), I think they can get deeper in the playoffs. We will see 

[Lonk]

That Draymond ejection...don't know how I feel about it. Sabonis was clearly trying to hold his foot, but Draymond clearly stomped the guy lol

[TheOutlawXanadu]

That Draymond ejection...don't know how I feel about it. Sabonis was clearly trying to hold his foot, but Draymond clearly stomped the guy lol

Sabonis was clearly trying to sell it too.

[KevShmev]

I only saw the replay this morning.  Sabonis obviously started it, but I would say it is good money that he did it knowing that Green is a hothead who has zero self control and would do something stupid and get himself ejected.  He dropped the bait, and Draymond grabbed it.

[Samsara]

Gm. 2 tonight for the Timberwolves in Denver. I won't say it can't get worse, because well, Timberwolves. 

But, here's hoping the team shows some heart. Down our starting all-defense small forward, and our adrenaline 6/7 man (Naz Reid), we're really in a tight spot. Be nice if we could get one in the Mile High City.

Regarding Green vs. Sabonis, Dumars did the right thing. He acknowledged that Sabonis clearly held Green's leg, and that the refs rightly assessed a foul for that. But he correctly pointed out that Green's conduct was excessive and that the fact he's a repeat offender absolutely made the decision clear. I know some defend Green. I don't see how. The guy is an absolute dirty player. Is he effective and does he hustle? Absolutely. But he's dirty. Would fit in well with those late-80s Pistons teams.

[KevShmev]

Regarding Green vs. Sabonis, Dumars did the right thing. He acknowledged that Sabonis clearly held Green's leg, and that the refs rightly assessed a foul for that. But he correctly pointed out that Green's conduct was excessive and that the fact he's a repeat offender absolutely made the decision clear. I know some defend Green. I don't see how. The guy is an absolute dirty player. Is he effective and does he hustle? Absolutely. But he's dirty. Would fit in well with those late-80s Pistons teams.

I think what cannot be overlooked as well is his behavior afterwards.  He was basically inciting the crowd, and the last thing the NBA needs is another Malice at the Palace.  Green's behavior could very well have resulted in an idiot fan or two throwing crap at him and then who knows what could happen. 

[bosk1]

I know some defend Green. I don't see how.

As far as the actual play with Sabonis, I absolutely will.  Obviously, I'm not in his head.  But having seen it in real time, and seeing the entire play and replays from several angles, I'm about as sure as I can be about anything in sports that that "stomp" was 100% the fault of Sabonis and 0% on Green.  He was not trying to make any contact with Sabonis whatsoever, and what caused him to was the fact that he was attempting to run the court at full speed on a fast break, and Sabonis, who was flailing around on the ground as a result of trying to throw Klay Thompson to the ground by his jersey and fell down himself, interrupted Green's momentum by locking onto his leg, which then caused Green to lose his balance and "stomp" down to keep from falling.  It was a split second reaction while, again, attempting to run up court at full speed, having his momentum redirected, and starting to lose balance.  If you've ever been moving at a decent speed and tried to step or jump over something and had your foot catch or hang up on the obstacle, you know exactly what that feels like.  And the result is almost always that, before you have a chance to react or think, you find yourself either stomping down to save the fall or, if you are too late, you find your face making contact with the ground before you even know what happened.  From all appearances, looking at this objectively, I don't know how anyone could possibly come to a conclusion that anything other than that happened (again, assuming you look at the entire play and look at all the angles).  Absolutely unintentional.  It would be like if you are losing your balance, throw your arm forward to break your fall, and then someone shoves you in the back, changing your momentum and trajectory, and your intentional act of flailing your arm to catch yourself is transformed into the unintentional act of "punching" someone who is now in the path of your moving hand on its altered trajectory.  If you are biased against Green, you might not see it that way.  But I think that is just bias creeping in and tainting the perception of what happened.  I'm firmly with the majority of NBA players that have commented and said they don't get the suspension.

This on the other hand...

I think what cannot be overlooked as well is his behavior afterwards.  He was basically inciting the crowd, and the last thing the NBA needs is another Malice at the Palace.  Green's behavior could very well have resulted in an idiot fan or two throwing crap at him and then who knows what could happen. 

Yeah, I've got nothing to say.  You are absolutely right there, Kev.  Tom Tolbert was commenting on it yesterday and about how if he was still an player and was in that game, he's sure he and the other guys on the team would have been looking around at each other going, "Hey, um...somebody really should go over there and say something to Draymond to get him to stop.  I mean...not me, nope!  But somebody should..."  (he was there at the game by the way and saw it all live) 

I can't and won't defend that at all.  And if that is enough to support the punishment (I don't really know how the rule is applied for something like that), I can't argue.  And at the very least, if the league was on the fence about whether to eject or suspend, or were already leaning that way, he absolutely hurt his own case and that's on him.

[King Postwhore]

I've got to disagree Bosk1.  Yes, Sabonis started the melee, but it's Green's response and history that got him in trouble.  He could have easily hand swatted him away while making a huge fuss that would have drawn attention to what Sabonis did.  Instead, he used Sabonis as a step climber which is malicious in intent.  Add his histoy, and it always spells a suspension in the NBA's eyes. 

[Lonk]

So I agree that Sabonis started the whole thing, heck he threw himself on the floor when he felt contact without realizing it was his own teammate, and he purposely wrapped his arms around Green's leg, but Green shares some of the blame.

He was not trying to run full speed, and he was certainly not off balance (His body was aligned with his left leg). Now, I don't know what was going through Green's head, and maybe he did feel he was about to fall, but to me it just does not look that way, specially when he started the stomp as he had just landed on his left foot.

I think a Flagrant 1 should have been more than enough though.

[bosk1]

He was not trying to run full speed...

He absolutely was.  He wasn't at full speed yet.  But he was starting his motion and shifted his momentum forward because the ball had just turned over to the Warriors and his team were taking off on a fast break.  100 times out of 100 when the Warriors get a turnover, he is sprinting down the court either as part of the fast break or trailing it for a rebound or outlet back pass.  Every time.  No exception.  That's exactly what was unfolding here.

I think a Flagrant 1 should have been more than enough though.

Personally, given the clearly unintentional nature of it, I think common foul is more appropriate.  But I get the human aspect of upping it to a flagrant just because it looked bad and resulted in much harder contact than is normal.  That happens all the time in the NBA, so I couldn't really argue if that had been the result here.

I've got to disagree Bosk1.  Yes, Sabonis started the melee, but it's Green's response and history that got him in trouble.  He could have easily hand swatted him away while making a huge fuss that would have drawn attention to what Sabonis did.  Instead, he used Sabonis as a step climber which is malicious in intent.  Add his histoy, and it always spells a suspension in the NBA's eyes. 

You are talking about two different things and conflating them:  (1) this specific act, and (2) his history.  As to #1, again, if you watch the entire play and watch all the angles it was captured from, you are wrong.  You can't just "swat" somebody away.  That isn't at all applicable to what happened.  As to #2, that isn't really how fouls and discipline are supposed to be applied.  I get the human side of past actions having an influence on how present actions are perceived.  I don't think that's right, and I don't think the NBA should suddenly start doing that when that hasn't been their official stance or approach.  But I get it.

[King Postwhore]

He certainly can act like he is being held, (He was) and not step on a player holding you to get free.  It's the violent act.

And the league always looks at the history of players when it comes to suspension. Fair or not, reputation matters to them. 


Edit: Don't take me wrong here.  I'd love him on my team.  Every team needs an enforcer, dirty dog to do the work others are not willing to do.  We've had our fair share of "Line steppers" that I've totally embraced. 

[KevShmev]

For as many in the sports media this who have seemingly lost their brain cells when discussing this topic, I will give Nick Wright for putting it well when he said, "Some have asked 'what was Draymond supposed to do when Sabonis was grabbing his league?.' Anything but that!!"

The "but Sabonis started it!!" narrative out of the media this week is a disgrace.  Using their logic, if one guy in a bar pushes the other, and the other guy grabs a baseball bat and jacks the guy in the face, the first guy is more wrong because "he started it!!" 

[bosk1]

I don't think it's a "but he started it" situation.  But it absolutely is a "but he caused it" situation.  So along those lines, I have to disagree with Nick Wright as well.  It wasn't a situation where Green really had a conscious choice about what to do.  He got yanked down, and his foot landed where it landed.  Physics is physics.

[KevShmev]

What a proud week for the NBA.  You have one of the faces of the biggest dynasty of the last decade stomping on another's guy chest, the likely MVP tried to kick a guy in the nuts last night, and his former MVP teammate smacked a guy in the nuts in the same game.  These NBA stars sure are something, aren't they?

[bosk1]

Harden has always been dirty.  But the flop in response to fairly minor contact was epic and way more offensive than the contact, IMO.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

My Raptors fired Nick Nurse today. The guy is a great coach. I understand that the team has gotten stagnant and needs a change, but there aren't many coaches better than Nurse. And when your team shoots 50% from the free throw line in a play-in game... Your problems are clearly much deeper than the coach.

[Samsara]

My Raptors fired Nick Nurse today. The guy is a great coach. I understand that the team has gotten stagnant and needs a change, but there aren't many coaches better than Nurse. And when your team shoots 50% from the free throw line in a play-in game... Your problems are clearly much deeper than the coach.

Firing Nurse was ridiculous. That team is unbalanced, and it's not the fault of the coach. Obviously, they put all their chips in with Leonard and it paid off. But once he left, there was bound to be steady decline unless they replaced that top-5 (at the time) talent in the league. They haven't done it. All of that is on the shoulders of the front office.

Finch should do Nurse a solid and return the favor...hire Nurse as his lead assistant (although I imagine Nurse will have his choice of head coaching jobs this offseason).

[T-ski]

 The Bucks are shitting the bed.

[Azyiu]

The Bucks are shitting the bed.

As great as Butler's performance in game 4, I just don't think the Bucks will lose game 5 at home. You guys just need to win the next one and the pressure will be all on the Heat again.

[Samsara]

F Jimmy Butler. Yeah, he had 56 points. Great game. Everyone else played like crap, so instead of making them better, Jimmy ISOd. Won't work moving forward.

And yes, I admit I'm fully biased. F that guy. From all accounts I've heard, Minnesota, Chicago, Philly, and Miami, he's a douche.

Wolves have a tall task tonight. not sure they have another W in them, particularly without our glue guy, Kyle Anderson. But fingers crossed. We're down 1 starter and three total heavy rotation players. Miracle we've gotten this far.

[bosk1]

I had the Bucks facing the Warriors in the finals.  But down 3-1 is a tough climb.  I'm not sure they have it in them to get past Miami.

[Samsara]

I had the Bucks facing the Warriors in the finals.  But down 3-1 is a tough climb.  I'm not sure they have it in them to get past Miami.

I think they do. Miami is talented, absolutely no doubt about it. Great coach. But as you well know, never underestimate the heart of a champion. I think the Bucks recover. Fingers-crossed.

[T-ski]

I want to believe the Bucks can come back but I’ve seen this happen before, against the Raptors in ‘19 and against the Heat in the bubble of ‘20. They just tend to crumble in crunch time.

I’m thankful I got to see them win it all in ‘21, because I’m not sure this group stays together if they’re an early exit this year.

[King Postwhore]

 Choke job C's.

[TAC]

That was ugly. Smart was brutal down the stretch. Brogdon should've been in.

[King Postwhore]

Tatum wasn't great either. This team loses big leads late in games all year.  Philly sitting back resting right now.

[Lonk]

To be fair, that was a ridiculous three by Young. One of those that's he's lucky it went because of it doesn't, he was going to hear it from the coach.

[Azyiu]

I just looked up the schedule and I am shocked to see game 6 of the Lakers/Grizzlies series is literally tomorrow night in LA! We'd better close this series out tonight or else I doubt both LeBall and AD could perform well in a potential game 6; the second night of a back-to-back.

[King Postwhore]

To be fair, that was a ridiculous three by Young. One of those that's he's lucky it went because of it doesn't, he was going to hear it from the coach.

Yeah but he wasn't missing any shots in the last 5 minutes and put his team on his shoulders.  While Tatum disappeared.

[bosk1]

I really want to like Tatum, but he just seems like he has this entitled attitude, like he shouldn't have to really work hard for full games to get wins, and I find that offputting.  Not the first time.

I also don't get why some were so up in arms about Smart committing that foul.  To me, that's a good play.  There were 15 second left that he preserved, with his team up 1.  Best case is that Atlanta misses both free throws, and Boston can kill the clock up a point.  Next best is they make one and Boston gets the ball with plenty of time to set up a play for the winning basket.  Next best after that is that they make both, and Boston still gets the ball with plenty of time to set up a play for the winning basket.  All of those are better scenarios than Atlanta potentially killing most of the clock and making a shot, giving Boston less (or no) time to come back and set up their shot.  I mean, I get that they have an incredible defense, and plenty might feel that you put it on them to play it out and get the stop and preserve the 1 point lead.  But to me, it's too thin a lead, and with great scorers, you want the ball in their hands to get their shot.  I thought the foul made perfect sense.

[TAC]

I really want to like Tatum, but he just seems like he has this entitled attitude, like he shouldn't have to really work hard for full games to get wins, and I find that offputting.  Not the first time.

I also don't get why some were so up in arms about Smart committing that foul.  To me, that's a good play.  There were 15 second left that he preserved, with his team up 1.  Best case is that Atlanta misses both free throws, and Boston can kill the click up a point.  Next best is they make one and Boston gets the ball with plenty of time to set up a play for the winning basket.  Next best after that is that they make both, and Boston still gets the ball with plenty of time to set up a play for the winning basket.  All of those are better scenarios than Atlanta potentially killing most of the clock and making a shot, giving Boston less (or no) time to come back and set up their shot.  I mean, I get that they have an incredible defense, and plenty might feel that you put it on them to play it out and get the stop and preserve the 1 point lead.  But to me, it's too thin a lead, and with great scorers, you want the ball in their hands to get their shot.  I thought the foul made perfect sense.

I think Tatum isn't a guy that likes to get dirty. He certainly doesn't want to disrespect any of the league's veterans. I think he wants to win a championship but until he learns that he's going to have to step on someone's toe to do it, he'll languish in this place he's in.

Smart came in last night and played like an ass. It was Brogdon's game late in that quarter and Brogdon should've been out there.

Defensively, I know Trey Young made a bunch of great shots, but how many open looks did they give John Collins.

And to go back to Tatum..he tightens up in these spots.

[King Postwhore]

I like Tatum a lot.  He is a likeable person but like Tim said, he seems to disappear in the big moments.  He's talked about this and says he and the team have learned from it.  The C's have had an issue giving up leads (10 points and over) in the 4th quarter all year.  You can talk about it but you have to fix it on the court.  It worries me that this is still happening to a 2 vs 7 seed.  Wait until you have to play the better teams.

[Lonk]

I like the Knicks chances against the Heat! Should be a fun series.

[Azyiu]

I like the Knicks chances against the Heat! Should be a fun series.

This series along with the Suns/Nuggets will both be epic! Somewhere in Dallas, Mark Cuban must be kicking himself daily