NBA 2023 CAPSTONE **DENVER NUGGETS FIRST CHAMPIONSHIP**

[KevShmev]

Haha, but you know what I mean.

Imagine if Gretzky had retired in '87 and then came back a couple years later and then retired in '95 again and then came back for a couple of uneventful seasons at the end of his career.  For one, Ovechkin likely would have passed him already in most goals ever, and one might say, "had Gretzky not retired twice, he'd still be the leader!"  But that would be part of the story.  Nobody made Jordan retire twice.  He did it on his own.  So, if he is so far behind James in total points, games played, etc., maybe he shouldn't have quit the sport twice when he still had plenty in the tank.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

Also, the eras are different. if you consider LBJ playing in Michael's era of defense, I think LBJ would be really, really good, but I'd also think his stats would suffer a little bit. not much. but a little. And if MJ played in LBJ's era, let's face it - MJ would have been unstoppable in an era of no handchecking or arm checks.

I think it's worth mentioning that Jordan didn't play his entire career in a slow, grind-it-out environment. On the contrary, the 80s were actually an extremely offense-heavy era. As an example, in MJ's rookie year, the league average offensive rating was 107.9 and the pace was 102.1. In LeBron's rookie year, those splits were 102.9 and 90.1. As Jordan's career progressed, the league became more defense heavy, whereas as LeBron's career progressed, the league became more offense heavy (kind of like an X). If you dropped LeBron into 1995, his stats would suffer, but if you dropped him into 1985, his stats would improve. People talk about the modern NBA like it's this unprecedented offensive explosion, when in reality, we've just returned to 70s/80s levels in terms of scoring and pace.

[Azyiu]

We have 9 games tonight! AD was saying every game is a must-win from here on out. I have heard him saying something along that line over the past 2 years. Don't tell me AD, show me. The simple math is, we cannot afford to play .500 ball any more. If we want to grab the 6th seed like Coach Ham suggested, we must go on to win 5 or 6 in a row before we can let one go. Tonight vs the Warriors will be a good measuring stick.

[Samsara]

You get judged on what you did, not what you could have done. 

Not at all accurate. Hall of Famers Kirby Puckett (MLB) and Sandy Koufax (MLB) were put in the MLB HOF based on not just their limited great performance, but based on "what would have been" due to retiring from injury. Simply put, the way greatness is defined, it DOES take into account potential.

TOX - good point.

[KevShmev]

You get judged on what you did, not what you could have done. 

Not at all accurate. Hall of Famers Kirby Puckett (MLB) and Sandy Koufax (MLB) were put in the MLB HOF based on not just their limited great performance, but based on "what would have been" due to retiring from injury. Simply put, the way greatness is defined, it DOES take into account potential.

I don't buy it.

Otherwise, why isn't Bo Jackson in the Hall of Fame (both baseball AND football)?

[Lonk]

Both of those players won championships and were all-stars for several years, that's good enough to be in the HOF.

[Samsara]

You get judged on what you did, not what you could have done. 

Not at all accurate. Hall of Famers Kirby Puckett (MLB) and Sandy Koufax (MLB) were put in the MLB HOF based on not just their limited great performance, but based on "what would have been" due to retiring from injury. Simply put, the way greatness is defined, it DOES take into account potential.

I don't buy it.

Otherwise, why isn't Bo Jackson in the Hall of Fame (both baseball AND football)?

Because his career was WAY too short. You can not buy it all you want, Kev. But you'd be wrong.

TOX made a great point above about LBJ and eras, which is why I said LBJ could play in any era and thrive (unlike Steph Curry, IMO). But there's no way if Jordan and LBJ played the same length career, in the same era, that LBJ would outscore Michael. None at all. I'll grant you that there is a closer argument that LBJ could be a better all-around player than Michael (it would be close, as Michael is by far a better defender). But in terms of simply scoring and the scoring record? MJ by a mile.

[axeman90210]

I think you can draw a distinction between who had the greater career and who was the more dominant/talented player. The same way I'd never argue with TB12's credentials but at the same time I don't know that he'd be the first QB I grabbed if I was putting together an all time all-star team.

[Samsara]

That's a good point. Brady had skills. For sure. But he was very much helped by the league rule changes. As were ALL QBs.

Eras are such a funny thing. You can always SEE greatness. But comparing greatness over time is so hard.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

You get judged on what you did, not what you could have done. 

Not at all accurate. Hall of Famers Kirby Puckett (MLB) and Sandy Koufax (MLB) were put in the MLB HOF based on not just their limited great performance, but based on "what would have been" due to retiring from injury. Simply put, the way greatness is defined, it DOES take into account potential.

I don't buy it.

Otherwise, why isn't Bo Jackson in the Hall of Fame (both baseball AND football)?

Because his career was WAY too short. You can not buy it all you want, Kev. But you'd be wrong.

TOX made a great point above about LBJ and eras, which is why I said LBJ could play in any era and thrive (unlike Steph Curry, IMO). But there's no way if Jordan and LBJ played the same length career, in the same era, that LBJ would outscore Michael. None at all. I'll grant you that there is a closer argument that LBJ could be a better all-around player than Michael (it would be close, as Michael is by far a better defender). But in terms of simply scoring and the scoring record? MJ by a mile.

I think that Jordan is the best scorer ever per possession, especially if you factor in the playoffs. LeBron has a good argument for number two in that regard, and is at worst top five IMO, but Jordan's scoring was just completely off the charts.

[Azyiu]

I am glad we won, but it is depressing to think we needed everything Reaves could give us to beat the Magic. I absolutely love Austin, but where was everyone else? AD? Beasley?  We still have the Suns and Bulls twice each, as well as the Clippers, the Thunder, the Jazz and the T-Wolves, all fighting for their playoffs lives. I just think our play-in chances are not good right now. 

[Lonk]

It's interesting to see that in the West, #4 seed -#12 seed are just 4 games apart. Anyone can move up or down.

[T-ski]

Bucks are finally healthy and rolling.

Makes me nervous.

[Azyiu]

Earlier I was wondering why weren't the Thunder and Jazz tank. For both the Thunder and the Jazz, obviously, it is too late for either of them to tank at this point, they might as well try and make the play-in or the playoffs. Then I realized, OKC has 2 first-round picks, one from the Clippers and one from their own; plus they have FOUR second-rounders this year. The Jazz is even more insane with THREE first-round picks! One from the T-Wolves, one from their own, and finally one could come from either the Rockets, the Nets or the 76ers. In short, they do not need to tank this season. Wow!

[Azyiu]

Knicks legend, champion, Finals MVP... RIP Willis Reed

[crazy climber dude]

I remember that game as a kid.....when he limped out. Incredible inspiration.

[Lonk]

Knicks in the playoffs again! Let's hope we win a series at least  So, I think the east standings are pretty much set (I'm sure Brooklyn will stay at the 6th seed), and the Play-in teams should be fun to follow.

The west on the other hand, there's still so much to be decided. 5 and 6 are tied, and only half a game ahead of 7-8 (Also tied). Phoenix needs to close out the season strong, if they want to keep the 4th seed (And they the last 5, so good chances there). OKC and MIN have not been playing well, but they've been lucky that Dallas and Utah have been playing just as bad.

Should be a fun week.

[Azyiu]

I don't really know what went down between Gobert and Anderson, I bet it ruins team chemistry. The Warriors have a whole season to fix things, but the Wolves only got a couple of days. Regardless of who is going to play, we need to show up. No more Swiss cheese defense, and we have got to take better care of the ball. Look, we need to win this play-in game to earn a chance to get beat by the Grizzlies. 

[hunnus2000]

The Mavs are so bad, they don't know how to properly tank. 

[Azyiu]

The Mavs are so bad, they don't know how to properly tank. 

I still cannot decide whether J-Kidd is an idiot by telling the world they were sitting guys to tank, or is he a genius by telling the world Cuban single-handedly made that decision to tank; knowing he is likely getting canned regardless.

[T-ski]

The Mavs are so bad, they don't know how to properly tank. 

I still cannot decide whether J-Kidd is an idiot by telling the world they were sitting guys to tank, or is he a genius by telling the world Cuban single-handedly made that decision to tank; knowing he is likely getting canned regardless.

Kidd is an idiot, trust me.

Also, I see good ol Rudy Gobert making his presence unwelcome on another team.

[Samsara]

So for those who don't follow the Timberwolves closely. (Remember, I've been a fan since the expansion year of 1989-1990, been following them religiously ever since.)

Slo Mo (Kyle Anderson) is a very, very vocal, up front, New Jersey guy. He leads by example, and isn't afraid to call out anyone (which being from NY, and being of the same mindset, I very much respect). He's become one of the main leaders on the team. Gobert, on the flip side, is a very sensitive person, who does some very dumb things. Earlier this year, he kicked an opponent in the crotch, on purpose, and then feigned like he didn't do it. He got called out for that. So here we are, last game of the season, and Gobert is almost begging out of the game because of "back spasms." He makes a big deal out of it that he's going to play. Then he plays, and he's being as soft as a newborn baby's ass. Kyle called him out on it. Kyle made a bad play the possession before, so Gobert chirps at Kyle in response. Kyle then tell his him to go get an f'in rebound, and stop being an f'in bitch. Gobert then punched Anderson.

Gobert was sent to the locker room to cool off. At halftime, they get into it again, and the team sends Gobert home. Timberwolves rally (behind Anderson, Prince, Edwards, and Towns), and win the game. Gobert gives apology, team suspends him anyway (which I agree with) for tonight's game against the Lakers. Anderson can be blunt. But blunt leadership is often needed to pull people in line. And if you can't take it, GTFO. Very pleased that Gobert is at home for tonight's game.

IMO, the whole Gobert thing was a mistake from the get-go. There's no doubt that Timberwolves overachieved last season with their roster. They had no size and no defense (kind of like the Kings this year). But they had grit and shooting. Tim Connelly is hired. Instead of waiting to see what opens up, he immediately decides to overhaul the roster. Big mistake. That trade for Gobert would have been there mid-season. But instead, he pulls the trigger and really upsets the apple cart. He did, however, sign Kyle Anderson immediately once free agency opened, so that is a plus. He also made a great trade getting rid of DLo for a calming presence in Mike Conley who is a way better defender and distributor. Anyway, with Towns going down for 50+ games, the team struggles to find an identity, and somehow gets to 42-20, despite losing to the Pistons 2x, the Hornets, the Magic, Houston, and San Antonio.

The problem is, two of those key guys that kept us afloat, Naz Reid (if you don't know, go find out) and Jaden McDaniels, are both out for the rest of the season, for however long that is. Naz broke his wrist dunking too hard (typical Wolves moment), and McDaniels, who should be on an all defensive team at season's end, got mad at what was happening on the floor last game, and stupidly (as young men can be sometimes) punches a curtain that he doesn't realize has a concrete wall behind it, and breaks HIS hand (another typical Wolves moment).

So, for tonight, we're down two starters (Gobert and McDaniels) and basically our woefully underrated backup PF/C (who would be a starter on probably 2/3 the teams in the NBA). The chips are down, for sure. The right move was made with Gobert, but tonight is going to be a battle. I still very much think the Timberwolves can, and WILL beat the Lakers, but it's going to go down to the wire.

Kyle Anderson slides into the starting PF slot, and Taurean Prince (again, if you don't know, go find out) moves up to SF. Our lineup will likely be:

C - Towns
PF - Anderson
SF - Prince
SG - Edwards
PG - Conley

The bench will be thin. We basically have Alexander-Walker and McLaughlin available to spell the guards, and the front court relief...it'll be thin. My guess is, all the starters will play close to 40 min tonight.

At the end of the season, hopefully at least a playoff series away, Connelly is going to have to find a way to swallow his ego and ditch Gobert. I think he can, if he takes back a bad contract. A lot of teams want a locked up big man with Gobert's pedigree. We won't get four first round picks, but who cares? If we can get 1 first rounder, and a solid rotation player, it's addition by subtraction with this guy. He doesn't fit the locker room. We'll resign Naz Reid, who will become a starter, and all will be right in Timberwolves world.

Just hoping we can get past the Lakers and put up a huge fight in the first round. Anything else is gravy.

[Azyiu]

Just hoping we can get past the Lakers and put up a huge fight in the first round. Anything else is gravy.

Rest assured, we will find creative ways to blow huge leads, perhaps even give you a win stupidly and a chance to get beat by the Grizzlies. 

[Samsara]

Just hoping we can get past the Lakers and put up a huge fight in the first round. Anything else is gravy.

Rest assured, we will find creative ways to blow huge leads, perhaps even give you a win stupidly and a chance to get beat by the Grizzlies. 

Who knows. LOL. Both are teams are huge eyerolls this season. 

[bosk1]

I have never seen a team try so hard to give away a meaningful game.

EDIT:  Honestly, neither of these teams deserve to advance. 

[Azyiu]

@bosk1

I don't want to comment on the Wolves, but you are absolutely correct about us the Lakers. We didn't seem to change our approach to this game. We played it like just another regular season game for the most part, and we were very careless with the ball.

The Grizzlies lost Steven Adams, but that might be a blessing in disguise for them; as we have trouble matching against smaller teams during the season.

[SoundscapeMN]

most Wolves and Minnesota Sports Teams (including Gophers Hockey, lol).

[Samsara]

Wolves...just...I have nothing.

[faizoff]

That scream by DeMar DeRozan's daughter during the Raptors-Bulls game was hilarious.

[bosk1]

No, it really wasn't.

[Azyiu]

What can I say? We are very good at finding creative ways to blow leads, and AD is obviously made of tofu.

[Lonk]

What can I say? We are very good at finding creative ways to blow leads, and AD is obviously made of tofu.

They still won, so it's fine. I expect a long series though.

[T-ski]

Always good to see your MVP get hurt in the first quarter of the first game of the first series.

[KevShmev]

Always good to see your MVP get hurt in the first quarter of the first game of the first series.

I don't believe in karma, but if I did, I would say that this is what happens when you get Grayson Allen on your squad.

[T-ski]

Always good to see your MVP get hurt in the first quarter of the first game of the first series.

I don't believe in karma, but if I did, I would say that this is what happens when you get Grayson Allen on your squad.

As an Allen hater prior to the Bucks, I will say though he has done some things, his rep is overblown and there are many players who do worse things on a more consistent basis.