NBA 2023 CAPSTONE **DENVER NUGGETS FIRST CHAMPIONSHIP**

[King Postwhore]

Ja Morant may be in deep trouble if these gang reports are true.

Did you mean the red laser incident in the loading dock after the Pacers game or something else? If you meant the former, the NBA security had concluded that "they could not corroborate that any individual threatened others with a weapon"; but those involved are not banned from the FedexForum.

No.  It's about this.

TMZ Sports report that Morant has been sued for allegedly punching a 17-year-old teenager during a basketball game in his home in Tennessee. A case was submitted to the Shelby County court in September, suing the Grizzlies player. The two are said to have engaged in a verbal conflict.

[Samsara]

Ja Morant has a lot of punk ass gangbanger in him. Just like Harden did (and Harden so far, has gotten away with it, but folks in Houston know his rep). You can take the punk off the street, but you can't take the street outta the punk. A shame if Ja really did that. From a Timberwolves standpoint, I won't be mad if Ja is gone for the year. LOL. His boy Brooks needs a punch in the mouth, maybe Ja can hit him instead of teenagers?

I do NOT like the Irving trade for the Mavs. I think the Nets got a good haul, bringing back picks and a great steadying force in Dinwiddie. Irving will not stay in Dallas, and while they may have some short term success, I don't see the pairing with Doncic working long term.

[KevShmev]

My older brother is a massive Luka and Mavs fan and likes the trade, even though he was just calling Irving a clown yesterday morning. 

I rarely watch basketball anymore, but it sounds like Luka was getting more and more frustrated at Cuban for his lack of help, so if nothing else, this is Cuban trying to get Luka star help, for the 12 games Irving plays a year that is.

[Samsara]

Luka is gone once his rookie extension max deal is done. My guess is Luka is going to go play for one the big teams - Lakers, Boston, etc. He's a UFA following the 2026-2027.  So at 28 then, in the middle of his prime. Gonna be nuts. Dallas is not going to be able to keep him if he's already frustrated with Cuban. And he will HATE playing with Kyrie. 

[T-ski]

Having lived through Jason Kidd coaching the Bucks and knowing Kyrie is a complete head case I feel pretty confident the Mavs will not be better off after this trade.

[TAC]

Having lived through Jason Kidd coaching the Bucks and knowing Kyrie is a complete head case I feel pretty confident the Mavs will not be better off after this trade.

If the Mavs give him a contract they're fucking crazy.

[Lonk]

Didn't expect them to stop the game, but that was a nice quick ceremony 

[The Realm]

Yeah it was well done but glad it is over and now we can move on.

[Azyiu]

Didn't expect them to stop the game, but that was a nice quick ceremony 

My Lakers still suck and we played no D whatsoever. WTH?

[Lonk]

Yeah it was well done but glad it is over and now we can move on.

Agree, I'm sure even LBJ came into this game with the mentality of wanting that over with.

[Samsara]

I consider myself a pretty good NBA historian. In all honesty, there are many other players ahead of Lebron who I consider to be more talented, and more exciting to watch. Jordan, Kobe, and Bird come to mind immediately. Dr. J as well. But there is absolutely no denying greatness. And Lebron James is the absolute, undeniable, scoring KING of the NBA. I am not really a Lebron fan at all, but simply put there are only a handful of other guys in the history of the game that are better than him. He's arguably on the NBA Mt. Rushmore (just off of mine), and it was very cool to witness history like that. My 14-year-old came down to watch the record-setting basket. I told her I was eight years old the last time this record was broken. She was blown away at the magnitude.

You can argue whatever you want - different eras/rules, foul calls, etc. But Lebron's smug ass powered through it all and persevered to get the record. A wonder to behold, and I congratulate him.

Now that it is done, he can go F himself, and I hope the Lakers (sorry Azyiu) crash and get the #3 pick. 

[Azyiu]

I consider myself a pretty good NBA historian. In all honesty, there are many other players ahead of Lebron who I consider to be more talented, and more exciting to watch. Jordan, Kobe, and Bird come to mind immediately. Dr. J as well. But there is absolutely no denying greatness. And Lebron James is the absolute, undeniable, scoring KING of the NBA. I am not really a Lebron fan at all, but simply put there are only a handful of other guys in the history of the game that are better than him. He's arguably on the NBA Mt. Rushmore (just off of mine), and it was very cool to witness history like that. My 14-year-old came down to watch the record-setting basket. I told her I was eight years old the last time this record was broken. She was blown away at the magnitude.

You can argue whatever you want - different eras/rules, foul calls, etc. But Lebron's smug ass powered through it all and persevered to get the record. A wonder to behold, and I congratulate him.

Now that it is done, he can go F himself, and I hope the Lakers (sorry Azyiu) crash and get the #3 pick. 

Some say with the rules changes and higher scoring and such, LeBron's all-time scoring record will be broken, but I am not so sure about that. A lot of things have to go right for any player to even come close to his final number. For one thing, LeBron basically avoided major injuries for much of his career. He really started slowing down by injuries after he arrived in LA. He missed half a season in 2018, and that was pretty much one of the very few times he missed significant time. Longevity is the key here. Even if you somehow avoid injury, you still have to average close to 30 ppg for a full 17 seasons to go beyond 40K points!

As for the Lakers, don't cry for us really; we dug the hole ourselves. Pelinka doesn't seem to know what he is doing and set the stage for us to screw it up. Sure, we find ourselves short-handed lately, but we still managed to lose several totally winnable games when we were healthy. Like the last two games, we lost to OKC at home?! And the game before that we managed to lose to the Pelicans who were in the midst of a TEN games losing streak. 

[Samsara]

I think LeBron's new record, whatever it ends up at after he retires, could, at some point be broken. Especially with it likely that 18 year-olds will be allowed to play in the NBA again after the next CBA is ratified. I mean, Anthony Edwards, who is just 21 and in his third season, if he stays healthy and averages say 25-28 ppg the rest of his career, he could get it. (He won't, but if healthy, man, he is going to put up some huge numbers.) So could a bunch of young guys, health permitting. I mean, it is at least possible.  It's all about, as you said, longevity. And injury rates are high these days.

But man, what a record.

As for your Lakers, looks like, according to Shams, you're getting DLo from us and we'll be importing Mike Conley and hopefully a 1rd pick from someone. I'm okay with it. Conley is old, but he's a steadying force at the 1, averaging 7.7 apg in a half-court set, and he knows how to get the ball in the right spots to Gobert. With Towns coming back after the ASB, I feel confident Conley can play a solid 25 minutes a night and have a big positive impact on the Wolves' chances in the playoffs. But we need a pick out of this. Just giving up DLo for Conley makes zero sense.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

I consider myself a pretty good NBA historian. In all honesty, there are many other players ahead of Lebron who I consider to be more talented, and more exciting to watch. Jordan, Kobe, and Bird come to mind immediately. Dr. J as well. But there is absolutely no denying greatness. And Lebron James is the absolute, undeniable, scoring KING of the NBA. I am not really a Lebron fan at all, but simply put there are only a handful of other guys in the history of the game that are better than him. He's arguably on the NBA Mt. Rushmore (just off of mine), and it was very cool to witness history like that. My 14-year-old came down to watch the record-setting basket. I told her I was eight years old the last time this record was broken. She was blown away at the magnitude.

The way that I personally see it is that there are a few big categories of greatness. In terms of which player had the absolute best peak (e.g., 1-3 year run), I'd probably say Jordan. In terms of which player drove the most winning, that's comfortably Russell. In terms of which player had the best longevity, that's probably LeBron now. Then you have Kareem, who's like a weird combination of being near the top of all those things.

Russell, Kareem, Jordan, and LeBron is a pretty good Mt. Rushmore.

Regarding this scoring record specifically, I think it could be broken one day, but it's going to be a while. After the Warriors won 73 games and Westbrook averaged a triple-double, I decided to never say never, but breaking the scoring record will be tough as hell.

[Samsara]

TOX - as we get down the road from Westbrook's prime, I find it absolutely more amazing each year his stretch of averaging a triple double. Three straight years, and four out of five years. Just unbelievable. The guy was an absolute force. If he ends up on the Jazz, i wonder if he turns it up the rest of the year gunning for one more contract.

[KevShmev]

I think saying "LeBron is arguably on basketball's Mount Rushmore" is underselling him big time, but I get that many hate him and will never want to give him his due.  Hell, my older brother is one of them.

I think Nick Wright said it well when he said once the MJ (let's call them) diehards are old or not around anymore in 20 years, most will look back and ask, "how is MJ better than LeBron?"  James will have him obliterated in just about everything, except championships, and if it's as simple as doing a ring count, then Russell is still > Jordan, right?

And I am not necessarily saying either is definitely better than the other.  I think it is crazy close and that they are 1a and 1b, with Kareem 3rd, and then we can talk about who is 4th, but the idea that James is not close is just hate talking, IMO.

[Samsara]

I changed my mind. After looking at things again, James would make Rushmore, bumping Bird (whose injuries and lack of longevity get him bumped in favor of LeBron)

I don't take championships into account. I try to evaluate using this:

1. Level of domination in the era
2. Would the player dominate in every era before him (and in the case of older players, after)?

I have to think about the 4th a little more. Right now, I have Jordan, Bryant and James. But there are so many dominant players it's hard to choose a fourth, particularly from the early years. My default is Abdul-Jabbar, but then I think about how dominant other guys were. It's hard for me to choose. But I am firm on the three I mentioned. I think it's pretty cut and dry on those three. Jordan and Bryant you want with the game on the line. James...he is a little lazy on defense until he really needs to play it. But once he does, he's dominate.

Ugh, can we expand the Mouth Rushmore idea to like 10 guys? 

[Lonk]

If it comes to domination of an era, going to the finals 8 years in a row should count for something, even if he only won 3 of those 8 years.

I had a conversation with a friend recently, and we were talking about how the 2013 and 2014 Pacers would have won against San Antonio, if they didn't get knocked out by Lebron and the Heat.

[KevShmev]

I don't agree with that at all. After the way they lost the 2013 Finals, no one was beating the Spurs in 2014.  That was a team on a mission, which is one of the reasons they slaughtered the Heat in those Finals (Wade's health issues didn't help).

Samsara, I still marvel at people taking Bryant over James when the game is on the line considering almost all metrics shows that James has been more clutch and efficient at the end of games. I think the narrative of LeBron making the smart basketball play (which means passing sometimes) vs Kobe's hero ball still makes many think that Kobe was this super awesome clutch player when he actually wasn't.  James has the most buzzer beaters in NBA playoff history. 

[Lonk]

It's possible, but that pacers team was good.

Seems Lakers traded Westbrook and are getting D'angelo Russell.

[Cool Chris]

I haven't really followed the NBA since the mid-2000s, and am by no means a basketball historian. I never thought I would see anyone top Kareem's scoring mark.

The way that I personally see it is that there are a few big categories of greatness. In terms of which player had the absolute best peak (e.g., 1-3 year run), I'd probably say Jordan. In terms of which player drove the most winning, that's comfortably Russell. In terms of which player had the best longevity, that's probably LeBron now. Then you have Kareem, who's like a weird combination of being near the top of all those things.

Russell, Kareem, Jordan, and LeBron is a pretty good Mt. Rushmore.

At quick glance that assessment seems fair, especially about Kareem's combination of peak, winning, and longevity.

[Azyiu]

KD is now a Sun. I heard about the rumors going on for the past few days, but I didn't think the Nets would go for it after they got rid of Kyrie. Still, with CP3, Booker, KD, Ayton and insert whoever here; the Suns' starting unit looks solid... on paper.

Yes, D-Lo comes full circle and is back in LA again. He is a solid scorer and he can totally shoot better than most of who we've got on the roster. His contract of $30M is off the book this summer. Perhaps the remainder of the season is like an audition for D-Lo? We could re-sign him this summer or we could let him go and see who's available... but I still DON'T want Kyrie in LA, lol. Malik Beasley is another relatively cap-friendly pickup. He shoots 38% from 3s, and IIRC he has a team option for next year. I don't know much about Jarred Vanderbilt, but perhaps he is that solid wing we sorely needed all along? I can see another minor deal coming in LA. I think they will try to offload either or both Beverley and Walker.

[T-ski]

Samsara….oof…

https://twitter.com/jprice_25/status/1623513225794064384?s=61&t=xXuIh4y62xgh3vySuZZT2Q

[TheOutlawXanadu]

TOX - as we get down the road from Westbrook's prime, I find it absolutely more amazing each year his stretch of averaging a triple double. Three straight years, and four out of five years. Just unbelievable. The guy was an absolute force. If he ends up on the Jazz, i wonder if he turns it up the rest of the year gunning for one more contract.

Yea, it's pretty wild. There were legitimate reasons to believe no one would ever average a triple-double again. It hadn't happened since like the 60s or something. And then Westbrook came out and did for multiple years. Like... what??? I'm not a big Westbrook fan but he deserves a ton of credit for that.

KD is now a Sun. I heard about the rumors going on for the past few days, but I didn't think the Nets would go for it after they got rid of Kyrie. Still, with CP3, Booker, KD, Ayton and insert whoever here; the Suns' starting unit looks solid... on paper.

Yes, D-Lo comes full circle and is back in LA again. He is a solid scorer and he can totally shoot better than most of who we've got on the roster. His contract of $30M is off the book this summer. Perhaps the remainder of the season is like an audition for D-Lo? We could re-sign him this summer or we could let him go and see who's available... but I still DON'T want Kyrie in LA, lol. Malik Beasley is another relatively cap-friendly pickup. He shoots 38% from 3s, and IIRC he has a team option for next year. I don't know much about Jarred Vanderbilt, but perhaps he is that solid wing we sorely needed all along? I can see another minor deal coming in LA. I think they will try to offload either or both Beverley and Walker.

Woke up this morning and saw the KD news. Crazzzy... The Suns are going to be formidable, but I also feel like someone on that team is bound to get injured. I also really hope the Lakers can at least make the playoffs now.

[Samsara]

Samsara….oof…

https://twitter.com/jprice_25/status/1623513225794064384?s=61&t=xXuIh4y62xgh3vySuZZT2Q

Yeah. Looking at it like that, it looks bad. But to be honest, I'm not mad at the trade. I think the Wolves got a great floor general in Conley who is more suited to the half court style the Wolves now are using. Plus, Conley is a steadying locker room presence and all around wonderful guy. Doesn't need the ball to help win the game. DLo needed the ball. NAW is...a throw in. My guess is, he'll replace Forbes who we waived, and sit the end of the bench.

Wiggins is not a good player. I know Warriors fans stuffed the ballot box, but he's what his stats say he is, a 17 ppg guy who has the talent to pop off for 40, but only does so once in awhile and can't carry a team.

I see what the Wolves are doing. This last move was to bring in a PG that works well with Rudy, that is a locker room leader, etc. AND, because they couldn't come to terms with DLO (who wanted like 26 mil per season), they don't lose him for nothing (like the Lakers will this offseason).

Are the Wolves better? Yes. Given the talent they have. When KAT comes back after the ASG, I think the Wolves will make that push for the 6 seed and be dangerous in the first round. But I don't see this team advancing any further than the second round. They just...all I can say is Gobert, as good as he is, is not a franchise guy. The Wolves have two in Edwards and KAT. They are missing that third guy. And I'm not sure they can get one.

re: Suns. Great move by them. But that bench is now thin. And the Cone (aka Chris Paul) is going to need rest down the stretch so he'll be effective in the playoffs. As will Durant. The Suns got older. It's now or never.

re: Lakers. Love the move to get depth. Vando will be loved big time in LA. All about hustle and rebounding. Ala a poor man's Rodman. D Lo is hot and cold, but when he's hot, he'll crush your heart. Beasley is the same way.

re: NBA Trade Deadline Day overall - for goodness sakes I'm tried trying to catch up. 

EDIT: Looks like Patrick Beverley is being bought out by the Magic and will sign with the Timberwolves. Which means we'll likely buy out Matt Ryan or Austin Rivers (likely the latter). Ryan is a two-way guy. Adding playoff-tested leaders. I like it.

[Samsara]

At least the NBA got the All Star replacements right. Edwards, Fox, and Siakam. So thrilled for Edwards. I know I'm probably the only one on here who has seen every game of this guy's career. But let me tell you, from day one, you saw that this kid had "IT." You know that knack for scoring where you watch a certain player, and know they can and will score whenever they want? Jordan, Kobe, Dominique, etc.? Ant is one of those guys. He touches the ball, and it is electric. Those three-level scorers that you know can just dominate at will. B/C Edwards is in Minny, he'll likely never get his due. But this kid is absolutely legit, and has earned this All Star nod.

At practice today, Finch waited til the end and then called everyone together to announce it. It was one of those moments of beauty. Got a huge bear hug from KAT, and you can tell Edwards was moved. Then when asked what he was going to do...he said "get in the game and score all the points." Then added that he was gunning for the MVP. Kid has massive rocks.

People can debate the Edwards/Ball draft all they want. The Timberwolves absolutely took the right guy.

And big time congrats to Fox and Siakam. Both those studs deserved it too. Nice to see them on there.

[crazy climber dude]

Samsara….oof…

https://twitter.com/jprice_25/status/1623513225794064384?s=61&t=xXuIh4y62xgh3vySuZZT2Q

Wiggins is not a good player. I know Warriors fans stuffed the ballot box, but he's what his stats say he is, a 17 ppg guy who has the talent to pop off for 40, but only does so once in awhile and can't carry a team.

Wiggins was seriously considered as Finals MVP in 2022. Granted, he didn't "carry" the star studded Warriors, but he was fantastic in that series. I agree there are others who deserved all star consideration ahead of him (I'm thinking selfishly Aaron Gordon from the West leading Nuggets)....but to say he's not good? I'll take 17 per any day. You need dudes who can score in that range and contribute.....but know their roles on a stacked roster. Wiggins was the equivalent of 2015 Andre Iguodala for the Warriors last year. They don't win without him stepping up in that series.

[Samsara]

I watched every single game (seriously) of Wiggins' career with the Timberwolves. He shows up in spurts. Agreed, he was very needed and valuable to the Warriors for their title run. But go look at his game log starting with January 7, 2023 until today. THAT is who Wiggins is. Inconsistent and checked out until motivated. Incredibly talented, but not the type of player you can rely on.

https://www.espn.com/nba/player/gamelog/_/id/3059319/andrew-wiggins

He had one great game in that six week span. Funny enough, it was his most recent game.  Hell of a good performance with 29 pts, 7 rbds, and 4 assists. He's capable of putting that up every night. But even when you need him to, when other guys struggle, or other guys are out, he can't do it consistently. He's the absolute walking definition of third scorer on a team. But sadly, he has franchise player basketball ability. He's just not motivated to use it on a nightly basis.

All Warriors fans can argue with me all day and all night on this. But while I will always say how incredibly talented Wigs is, he's not lived up at all to his ability. And that is a huge shame.

He came out of the gates this year in November and December playing very well. I really thought he had turned a corner in the playoffs last year and how he played to start this season. Then he got hurt, was out for a month, and he's back to being the lazy Wigs that infuriated Wolves fans.

Trust me, I wish that guy the best, except when he plays the Wolves. But he's just not the type of guy you can build around. He's a part. Yet his talent screams franchise player. But his mentality is role player.

[reneranucci]

I think Nick Wright said it well when he said once the MJ (let's call them) diehards are old or not around anymore in 20 years, most will look back and ask, "how is MJ better than LeBron?"  James will have him obliterated in just about everything, except championships, and if it's as simple as doing a ring count, then Russell is still > Jordan, right?

That's not difficult to answer at all. The simplest argument for Jordan being better than LeBron is that he has MORE INDIVIDUAL AWARDS AND MORE TEAM AWARDS than LeBron. Jordan was a more dominating individual player (more scoring titles, more MVPs, Scoring champion and Defensive Player of the Year the same year, which is insane, higher scoring avg in an era with lower total scores per game) and he also helped his team win more (More championships, 2x three-peats, more final MVPs, never losing in the finals, 72-10 record,). How's Lebron better than MJ? Longevity and a better passer/rebounder, but he still falls short. 

[bosk1]

I think saying "LeBron is arguably on basketball's Mount Rushmore" is underselling him big time, but I get that many hate him and will never want to give him his due. 

Can I hate him AND give him his due? 

[Azyiu]

Can I hate him AND give him his due? 

Yes, you can   I am a Lakers fan, but I am still NOT an LBJ fan.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

I think Nick Wright said it well when he said once the MJ (let's call them) diehards are old or not around anymore in 20 years, most will look back and ask, "how is MJ better than LeBron?"  James will have him obliterated in just about everything, except championships, and if it's as simple as doing a ring count, then Russell is still > Jordan, right?

That's not difficult to answer at all. The simplest argument for Jordan being better than LeBron is that he has MORE INDIVIDUAL AWARDS AND MORE TEAM AWARDS than LeBron. Jordan was a more dominating individual player (more scoring titles, more MVPs, Scoring champion and Defensive Player of the Year the same year, which is insane, higher scoring avg in an era with lower total scores per game) and he also helped his team win more (More championships, 2x three-peats, more final MVPs, never losing in the finals, 72-10 record,). How's Lebron better than MJ? Longevity and a better passer/rebounder, but he still falls short. 

Yea, as impressive as LeBron's accomplishments are (he's easily one of the most accomplished players ever), Jordan is still the more decorated player in terms of the absolute most prestigious awards:
* 5 to 4 MVPs
* 6 to 4 FMVPs
* 1 to 0 DPOTYs

LeBron does crush Jordan in terms of All-NBA Teams and cumulative stats, which is of course hugely meaningful. However, Jordan still holds an edge in terms of All-Defensive selections and per-possession advanced metrics such as BPM. I think that LeBron has a strong argument as the GOAT on the basis of his longevity and career value, but Jordan also has a strong argument as the GOAT on the basis of peak and overall resume.

On a side note, I think there's a legitimate question as to whether the NBA's awards are comprehensive or even make sense. There really needs to be a Playoffs MVP and I'd be in favor of a Player of the Year Award too. If those awards existed then LeBron might have pulled a bit closer. I feel like Jordan would have been crowned POTY at least six times. LeBron also may have gotten up to six based on his four championship runs and then some combination of 2014, 2017, and 2018.

TL;DR - A lot of grumpy old cranks give Jordan credit for dumb reasons and criticize LeBron for even dumber reasons, but I personally think that there are very legitimate reasons to consider Jordan as the GOAT and I don't think that's going away any time soon.

[Samsara]

The ONLY reason LBJ has Jordan in accumulated stats and All-NBA appearances is because Jordan retired...twice.

Think about if he played the four seasons he was retired, and was at 19 full seasons (which, I think is what this is for LeBron - his 19th). Lets say he would have scored 2,000 pts per season (which is fair, if you look at his career). That's 8,000 points. That would have put him at over 40,000 points for his career. More than LBJ. Pretty good bet that Jordan would also have four more all-nba appearances, and four more All Star appearances.

The ONLY stats that LBJ would have over Michael over 19 years, would have been rebounds (he's a bigger player) and assists. Michael would be superior in any other statistical category.

Also, the eras are different. if you consider LBJ playing in Michael's era of defense, I think LBJ would be really, really good, but I'd also think his stats would suffer a little bit. not much. but a little. And if MJ played in LBJ's era, let's face it - MJ would have been unstoppable in an era of no handchecking or arm checks.

Look, LBJ is one of the greatest of all time. There is no debate on that. But Michael Jordan is by far and away the superior player. There aren't many I'd take over LBJ, but Michael is NUMERO UNO.

[KevShmev]

The ONLY reason LBJ has Jordan in accumulated stats and All-NBA appearances is because Jordan retired...twice.

Think about if he played the four seasons he was retired, and was at 19 full seasons (which, I think is what this is for LeBron - his 19th). Lets say he would have scored 2,000 pts per season (which is fair, if you look at his career). That's 8,000 points. That would have put him at over 40,000 points for his career. More than LBJ. Pretty good bet that Jordan would also have four more all-nba appearances, and four more All Star appearances.

The ONLY stats that LBJ would have over Michael over 19 years, would have been rebounds (he's a bigger player) and assists. Michael would be superior in any other statistical category.

Also, the eras are different. if you consider LBJ playing in Michael's era of defense, I think LBJ would be really, really good, but I'd also think his stats would suffer a little bit. not much. but a little. And if MJ played in LBJ's era, let's face it - MJ would have been unstoppable in an era of no handchecking or arm checks.

Look, LBJ is one of the greatest of all time. There is no debate on that. But Michael Jordan is by far and away the superior player. There aren't many I'd take over LBJ, but Michael is NUMERO UNO.

But that's part of the reason why one could argue against him.  Would Brady be the football GOAT if he and just up and retired TWICE in his prime?

As for what Jordan could have done had he not retired, that is irrelevant, IMO.  You get judged on what you did, not what you could have done.  One could easily say, "LeBron has as many rings as Jordan if Durant doesn't go to Golden St." but that's not what happened.

[King Postwhore]

He could come back 1 more time Kev.