NBA 2023 CAPSTONE **DENVER NUGGETS FIRST CHAMPIONSHIP**

[crazy climber dude]

In the West, Lakers off to an abysmal start. While teams like Utah, San Antonio, and Portland are pleasant surprises.

In the East, the 76ers and Heat getting out of the gate slowly. While Washington is surprising a few people.

Definitely early, so I don't put much stock in the standings yet. Though still interesting, and makes you wonder what some of these teams will look like as the season progresses. Both, in how they might shuffle around in the standings....as well as whether they will have the same players moving forward. 

[Azyiu]

At 0-4, we suck! To add insult to injury, I watched the game live on my iPad until the end of the 1st qtr, then the NBA app acted up again and the game went OFFLINE. I live-chatted with the NBA Tech support until the end of the first half, but they could not fix it. All other games were fine during that time. In the end, I went "F that", and I went back to sleep! Knowing we were likely going to lose anyway.

We need to start playing like teams from the 90s and keep setting up high-lo, backdoor cuts, etc., control the tempo and feed the ball inside as much as we could. I think like 2 seasons ago, I will be watching more Suns games when I can. They are more fun to watch than we do now.

[Samsara]

Well, after the entirety of Twitter and the Wolves fanbase was screaming bloody murder after we lost our first game to San Antonio, we beat them last night to go to 3-2. I swear, man. Maybe it's because I grew up in New York and was used to the Yankees winning (not in the late-80s though), but holy crap people turned on the team. And then after last night, all is right with the world in Minnesota media. 

The Wolves are what I knew they'd be to start the year - inconsistent. Of their five games, they came out like gangbusters in four of them, looking amazing. Like potential Western Conference title contenders. And then the inevitable halftime adjustments by the opponent and we crumble. TOTALLY EXPECTED BY THIS OG TIMBERWOLVES FAN. Apparently people don't realize changing an offensive scheme and having two 7 footers on the court is going to take a minute to get comfortable.

Anyway, last night in the win against the Spurs, I see things starting to get better. Yes, Anthony Edwards got hot AF in the first quarter from the perimeter. The kid had all the tools. Just needs to be more consistent (there is that word again) and keep working on his conditioning so that he is just as effective in back-to-back games. But the difference between last night, and the four games before it - the Wolves started to play like last year again. They took lots of perimeter shots if open, instead of trying to force the ball to Gobert on the block. They looked MUCH better. Gobert had a quiet game, but that's okay. He's there to PLAY DEFENSE.

Sure, you want to give the guy a few touches, but at the end of the day, his role is to be a lockdown post defender. Not a scorer. The Wolves have finally seen that, and it was a great effort all around by the team.

For those of you who don't follow rotation players, you may have heard the name Jaylen Nowell this morning. The hype is legit. He's a second round pick from a few years back. I saw him his first year in the G-League, and knew right then (along with Naz Reid) that he had the knack. He's a walking bucket. REALLY versatile though. Can shoot the 3, score all three levels, defend, and initiate offense. We really developed him. If you have a basketball fantasy team, and it's a deep league, if he's out there, scoop him up as a flex play. He'll be in double figures every game, and be a candidate for 6th man at the end of the year. yes, he's that good. that's why we didn't care one bit getting rid of Beasley in the Gobert trade.

As for Friday against the Lakers...Wolves are in trouble. I am sure the coaching staff (I love Chris Finch) is pounding on this, but when you have a team with three future HOFers coming into down, who haven't won a game, they are out for blood. I expect the Lakers to play HARD in Minnesota. And I actually expect the Lakers to win, and I hope I'm wrong. But a desperate team like the Lakers with that kind of HOF talent on the floor...they are due, and Minnesota better be prepared, otherwise they will get all sorts of national exposure for being the team the Lakers busted out against.

Anyway, I'm excited for the Timberwolves as always. Very high on their potential. KAT looks comfortable, D Lo the same. Edwards is adjusting to two bigs a bit (nice sign how the offense worked through him instead of KAT last game), and if Gobert is okay with just being a 10 pt, 12 rbd guy, and embracing that role, they will be a very special team this year.

[Azyiu]

when you have a team with three future HOFers coming into down, who haven't won a game, they are out for blood. I expect the Lakers to play HARD in Minnesota. And I actually expect the Lakers to win, and I hope I'm wrong. But a desperate team like the Lakers with that kind of HOF talent on the floor...they are due, and Minnesota better be prepared, otherwise they will get all sorts of national exposure for being the team the Lakers busted out against.

You are thinking too much of us Westbrook maybe a future HOFer, but he is so washed up now he doesn't matter. Besides, I don't think he is going to be playing anytime soon. The way to beat a mentally shaken AD is to just leave him alone when he is 18 ft away, and make him take a long jumper. His confident is so shaken right now, he could easily turn into a non-factor as long as you don't give him the lane to drive. LBJ is going to be LBJ. I think you keep the rest of the guys in check you should be alright.

[bosk1]

Yeah, I don't think the presently constructed Lakers have the fortitude to be "out for blood."  LeBron does.  The team doesn't.  At least, not right now. 

[Samsara]

I'll happily be wrong. Fingers crossed for this evening's game.

[crazy climber dude]

Yes, HOF talent....does not a cohesive team make.

And Davis, wow....what an enigma. When he's healthy and dialed in, is there a more talented big man? But how many times did he come up hobbling against Denver the other night? He kept playing, but obviously something is wrong. So even if they do somehow find some chemistry as the season goes on.....is he going to be healthy through the duration of that period? Seems tenuous at best.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

It cannot be overstated how bad a player Westbrook is at this point. Everyone focuses on a few dumb decisions here and there, which honestly I don't really care about. Stuff happens, guys make bad plays. The issues go way deeper than that. He doesn't play any defense. He is potentially the worst shooter in the league amongst guards. He is a turnover machine. Oh, and he makes $40 million per year.

[Samsara]

I know players are evaluated on more than stats. And I won't argue the shooting THIS YEAR. It's horrendous. BUT...

In 2021-2022:

He averaged 18.5 pts. That's down roughly 4 ppg from his career average. HOWEVER, he also took three less shots a game than his career average (the price of playing with Lebron and not having the ball). So that sort of negates that.

He shot 44.4 percent from the field. That was actually HIGHER than his career average which was 43.8. So the whole narrative that he can't shoot...is false. He can, and in fact did it reasonably well last year.

His three point shooting percentage, never a strength, was 29.8 in 2021-2022. That was...basically identical to his career average of 30.4.

Assists. Averaged 7.1, down from 8.4 career. That's due to Lebron being the primary ballhandler.

Rebounds. Averaged 7.4. that's equal to his career average.

I say all this to point out - Westbrook isn't the problem in Los Angeles (other than having a bad start). The problem is, he and Lebron BOTH NEED THE BALL IN ORDER TO BE EFFECTIVE. And because the Lakers are Lebron's team, that leaves Westbrook being the odd man out, who generally takes all the heat from everyone.

I'm not even a big fan of the guy. Didn't like how he treated the media in OKC, and he rubs me the wrong way. But the Lakers' problems are not Westbrook. It's actually Lebron. As awesome as he is (I am not a fan, but he is this generation's version of Kobe, Jordan, Bird, Magic, etc.), his demands have led to the Lakers shipping off young talent for high priced vets he says he wants to play with. Had they not gotten AD (AD was a MISTAKE), they would have had one of the games best young wings in Brandon Ingram, a high scoring sixth man in Josh Hart, and a starting PG who had he been healthy in Chicago the last two seasons, would have flourished in Lonzo Ball. (Hereinafter referred to as "The Lesser Ball")

All of you Lakers fans yelling at Westbrook - it's actually LEBRON'S FAULT. lol.

What Lebron SHOULD have done, was said to management - listen, this is about building a winner. Lets develop these young guys. Ingram is going to be a stud, and I have a magician in Ball who just needs to be left alone to play his game. Had they done that, no, they wouldn't have won the fake 2020 bubble title (and yes, it doesn't count to me, because it was bullshit and everyone outside of Lakers fans knows it - same as the Dodgers shortened season title), but the Lakers would have been set up NOW with young talent on controllable deals and the ability to be more nimble.

But NOPE, Lebron wants, Lebron gets.

If Pelinka really wanted to do the franchise a solid, he'd dumb Lebron and AD and get back lots of picks, and pick up a couple guys who are on expiring deals. Throw away this year, and rebuild on youth.

But your blame for the Lakers rests with one guy - Lebron James.

[Anguyen92]

That's the thing with aging generational talents.  If you have them on your roster, you have to go all in every year to push for another championship, because who knows if you are going to get another talent like that within the next decade or so.  This is the consequences when you go all-in, spending high draft picks to trade, signing big-dollar free agents, etc.  The risk is that when it blows up in your face, the harder you can transition into doing a rebuild.

[Azyiu]

In all fairness, we were without AD, JTA and Schroder, I thought it was a scheduled loss going in anyway.

I don't think trading for AD is a mistake, after all we got an asterisk championship out of it. We should have, however, sent Kuzma instead of Ingram to the Pels for AD. IIRC, the Pels were either asking for Kuzma or they had no special preference for either.

If we are dishing out blames; we cannot leave Jeanie Buss off the hook here for being too buddy buddy with her stars, and being too trusting either. She seems to be bending way too much to favor LeBron since he signed with the team. Rob Pelinka is the GM, but I doubt he would skip over from consulting with Buss being making major trade or signing like when we traded FOR Westbrook last year. Buss must have thought those trades or signings are good for the team. That is fine for her, but Pelinka as GM should step in and tells her all the pros and cons. Ok, maybe he had but I don't see it as a fan.

Just as I am typing this, the Nets situation just got unnecessarily messier last night with owner Joe Tsai called out Kyrie on Twitter for Kyrie linking to a book/film that some consider to be antisemitic. With both LA and BKN being off to poor starts and both having PG's they probably want to move, could a trade be likely? Could a Russ and KD reunion work? Would LA want Kyrie with some of the baggage he now comes with? If I were the Nets I would NOT trade FOR Westbrook. He is just a bad fit to the team when they already have Ben Simmons. As a Lakers fan, I'd rather we stay put at this point. After all I don't think we would get THAT much better with adding just Kyrie... assuming he is going to just play ball.

[bosk1]

I dunno.  All of Samsara's points are valid.  But there is plenty of "blame" to go around when it comes to the Lakers.  I tend to put most of it on the ownership/management group as a whole.  I don't think anyone really disagrees that the team has been grossly mismanaged from the top down.  And while we can point to LeBron, ownership/management still has the ability to say "no" and do what they think is best for the team.  I get that it can be REALLY hard to do that and to appease a generational megastar like LeBron.  I do.  But the buck ultimately stops with them.  Like it or not, that's their job. 

I do disagree with the "*" on the title.  Not that Samsara's points aren't valid--they are.  But I just don't get into the business of putting "*"s on titles because you could do that all day and try to "invalidate" any number of titles in sports for one reason or another, many of which are valid.  For me, at the end of the day, the league put that system in place, and the teams competed within that system, and the Lakers won it.  I have no love for this Lakers team, but I have no problem acknowledging them as champions a couple of seasons ago.

[Anguyen92]

I too disagree with putting an * with the NBA championship and the Stanley Cup.  The playoff structure got messed up. Teams that weren’t supposed to qualify for the playoffs did.  At the end of the day, the Lakers for that one year looked good and The Tampa Bay Lightning were the teams where I had no issues that they won it in 2020

[Azyiu]

Guess I need to work on my humor and sarcasm

I thought you guys would get the "*" joke as I am a Lakers fan. 

[Azyiu]

We won! We beat the Nuggets at home to go 1-5! It must have been a blue moon or something. We not only won the game, but we shot 43% from 3s? Geez, did we swap personalities with the Warriors for one night? They shot just 30% at the Pistons. Lol

[Samsara]

Regarding the "*" - the problem is, the bubble title was totally neutral, without fans, without the intensity and pressure that comes from outside forces in the stands. It makes a HUGE, HUGE impact on NBA teams. It's very different from hockey, or even baseball, IMO. With the NBA, I am a firm believer that home court advantage and the power of the fans plays a big role. I feel like the Lakers got a pass on that title. yeah, they won it, but won it under very neutral terms, which no other title ever was.

In all honestly, there shouldn't have been an NBA Championship/playoffs in 2020. It was done for the money. They should have kept play suspended entirely until the following season, IMO.

re: Timberwolves

They looked like absolute garbage against a Spurs team missing two starters last night. GARBAGE. They shot 14...yes, 14 percent from 3. Rudy Gobert has been a huge help for interior defense and rebounding. But they need to stop trying to get him involved offensively. Whenever they do that, they screw it all up. He can get his points on tip ins and stuff. There are always four other guys on the floor with him on his team that are better than him offensively at all times...and yet they keep trying to get him the ball.

Finch needs to clean this up. Now.

[KevShmev]

Between this and the Aaron Judge thing, it looks like Samsara is "asterisk guy."
 
"If the circumstances weren't exactly the same as before, give them an asterisk!!"

[TAC]

Yeah, the Bubble Title isn't an * Title at all. I mean, did some teams have fans and others didn't? It was an even experience for all teams, no?

[Azyiu]

I brought the asterisk thingy and you guys are having fun with it.    Anyway, the bubble tourney was unique, perhaps a once-in-lifetime thing. Teams have to face each other in a neutral site without any fans or the so-called home court advantage, but by the same token, they didn't have to travel and technically could rest immediately after each game. Still, I think luck has to play a role in our 2020 championship. Had the Doc Rivers coached Clippers not blow another 3-1 lead against the Nuggets  , we could have faced them in the WCF and lost. We didn't match up well against them at all. It could easily lost 1-4 in that series.

[T-ski]

I’m not making excuses but “the bubble” definitely altered teams routines, especially mentally.

It was an abnormal situation for sure. I just remember how different the Bucks looked once games restarted in empty arenas. It was definitely not the same.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

Regarding the "*" - the problem is, the bubble title was totally neutral, without fans, without the intensity and pressure that comes from outside forces in the stands. It makes a HUGE, HUGE impact on NBA teams. It's very different from hockey, or even baseball, IMO. With the NBA, I am a firm believer that home court advantage and the power of the fans plays a big role. I feel like the Lakers got a pass on that title. yeah, they won it, but won it under very neutral terms, which no other title ever was.

The bubble was definitely weird, no question. At the same time, the Lakers were coming off back-to-back wins over their top two rivals (Bucks and Clippers) when the season ended and would have had home court advantage throughout the playoffs (outside of a matchup with the Bucks). In some respects, the bubble was a disadvantage to them, but they won it anyway. I think it's totally fair to acknowledge the strangeness of it all without discrediting the entire thing.

I also don't really agree with holding onto the young studs instead of trading for Davis. Davis was a top-five player in 2020 and at least a level or two above where any of those young guys will ever be. Brandon Ingram is a marginal All Star-caliber player, which is fine, but I wouldn't take that over Davis, especially considering Ingram has injury troubles of his own. Lonzo Ball is also good but barely plays. And I wouldn't trust the Lakers' front office with skillfully using those assets.

100% in agreement that James has too much sway over the team, and some of his moves have backfired, like the Westbrook one.

[Samsara]

Between this and the Aaron Judge thing, it looks like Samsara is "asterisk guy."
 
"If the circumstances weren't exactly the same as before, give them an asterisk!!"

 

Damn right! Maybe!*

*reserve my right to change my mind.

[Azyiu]

Do you want any more drama Brooklyn fans?  Reports are saying the Nets have just fired Steve Nash after a 2-5 start to the season.

[Samsara]

LOL.

That whole team needs to be sacked. Just trade everyone.

They should never have broken up that DLo-led playoffs team and never fired Kenny Atkinson.

[T-ski]

Nets bringing in Udoka is a bold move.

Shitty organizations deserve shitty people.

[Samsara]

I think at this point with all the Durant drama, the Irving drama (Lord, that guy needs help), and now Udoka and his drama, the NBA needs to step in. I know they are individual franchises, and no crimes, per se, were committed, but this is out of hand.

[Lonk]

I think at this point with all the Durant drama, the Irving drama (Lord, that guy needs help), and now Udoka and his drama, the NBA needs to step in. I know they are individual franchises, and no crimes, per se, were committed, but this is out of hand.

I don't see anything the NBA can do since in all honesty, they are operating as they should.

[T-ski]

Boston could’ve gotten decent compensation from the Nets for Udoka but chose to just let him go, says a lot about how Boston wanted nothing more to do with Udoka.

[T-ski]

This has been confirmed, good luck to whomever gets the job….

https://www.salary.com/job/brooklyn-sports-entertainment/brooklyn-nets-llc-public-relations-coordinator/j202207191122083454135

[Samsara]

This has been confirmed, good luck to whomever gets the job….

https://www.salary.com/job/brooklyn-sports-entertainment/brooklyn-nets-llc-public-relations-coordinator/j202207191122083454135

Once upon a time I worked in the PR world...that's a bottom level job. Really just a lackey who wouldn't really need to deal with tough questions. Just pass them on to others.

All that said, if I was 23 with a communications degree and an internship/first PR job behind me, I'd totally apply.

[King Postwhore]

Sounds like Ime Udoka will be the next coach for the Nets. I still don't know why he was suspended from the C's.

[Samsara]

The Timberwolves are in trouble.

I'm the only one here at DTF that likely watches every game. The scores are not indicative of just HOW POORLY they are playing. I wasn't gonna be "that guy" and say blow it up because of two centers playing together, but I think after 12 games, there is a serious miscalculation on the part of Tim Connelly.

The obvious - two guys playing center clogs the lane. KAT is not comfortable as a perimeter player on either end...not against guys who are smaller than him. So on offense, he cheats a bit toward the paint, clogging things up for Edwards and Russell with Gobert down there. When Gobert floats out to the perimeter, the paint is still clogged because his defender sags off him into the lane because they know gobert is no threat from deep. It's a complete mess.

The not so obvious - The effort and heart is not there. I've watched Anthony Edwards stand on the baseline watching the other four guys play with his hands on his hips...multiple times this season. They are ridiculously careless with the ball. D'Lo doesn't have his head in the game.

I don't wanna be the whole "Trade Machine for the win" mentality, but I see a fix for the Wolves (and another team needing size).

Trade Gobert to the Knicks for Julius Randle, Derrick Rose, and two first rounders. The Knicks get the traditional defensive stopper in Gobert that Thibs covets (allowing Mitchell Robinson to play freely off the bench without worry that he'll get too many fouls), and the Wolves get Randle who is really what they need, a rugged PF who can shoot and rebound, moving KAT back to center. And Rose comes back to Minny to play guard off the bench for 20 minutes a night, bringing some grit and heart back to the franchise.

The Wolves made a big, big error getting rid of glue guys like Pat Bev and Jarred Vanderbilt. Sometimes it's not about the talent, but knowing a role, and being a star in the role. Pat Bev was the team's heart. Vanderbilt was the motor. Both are gone, and the Wolves have neither.

Take this for what it's worth, but someone on Twitter (yeah...) said that he was actually sitting next to Gerrson Rosas at the Knicks-Wolves game (Rosas is an advisor for the Knicks now), and asked Rosas if he could ask him some questions. he said sure. The guy asked if he would have made the big Gobert trade. Rosas response was neutral, but telling ("There was something special about the group I put together.") - reading the tea leaves, I think it's pretty obvious Rosas knew the sum of the parts was way better than individual talent.

But this Wolves team is ridiculously hard to watch right now.

The trade I suggest could very well help fix some things. And yes, for whatever it's worth, it was approved by the NBA Trade Machine.

[King Postwhore]

Draymond Green, if Celtics fans used that unconscionable word no person should say, in the finals, why would you wsit until now to release this info?

You've never been one not to talk in the moment,  wearing your sleeve on your heart.  If it is true. A few bad apples shouldn't represent the whole fan base.

[bosk1]

[King Postwhore]

https://www.basketballnetwork.net/latest-news/draymond-green-says-boston-celtics-fans-threw-racial-slurs-at-him-in-the-2022-finals