Official Dream Theater studio albums countdown thread! (number 1 revealed!)

[Zydar]

DT12 - I had this one at #10. I really enjoy it still, it has aged pretty well for me. Strangely enough I don't listen to it as much as maybe I should. Highlights are The Enemy Inside, The Looking Glass, Surrender To Reason, and Illumination Theory. I saw them on this tour (my 2nd and most recent DT show) together with our DTFer Lynxo.

[jammindude]

Wow! 4th album in a row with a lower average score than the last place finisher! That’s really surprising at this point!

I had this at #5. I consider it to be the best album of the Mangini era. (A View is close, but not quite)

I love everything on this album, and I still reach for it fairly regularly.

A lower average is GOOD - the higher the average, the lower the ranking. Anyway, I believe I had this 6th. Just great songwriting throughout. My faves are STR, IT, and BTV.

OMG I feel like such a dingbat! I don’t know why I had that reversed in my head. Thank you for being patient with me and getting me sorted out. I just feel a little silly. Lol

[Cool Chris]

Hope you don't make such silly mix-ups on the job. The black is hot, jammindude 

[SwedishGoose]

I liked this quite a bit when it came out but rarely get the urge to listen to it now.



15.
14. Black Clouds and Silver Linings
13. When Dream and Day Unite
12. Systematic Chaos
11. Dream Theater
10.
9.
8.
7.
6.
5.
4.
3.
2.
1. The Astonishing

[javidt]

My 2nd favourite record from the Mangini era. I ranked it #6.

I really like every song on it except Enigma Machine.

I know this album is always low on every ranking you find on the Internet but the more I listen to it, the more I like it.

The bigger picture, for example, is great, diverse and concise.

[Shalev Amir]

Another album with a less than stellar middle. The Looking Glass and Illumination Theory are great, Surrender to Reason and The Enemy Inside are also good and the rest are just not interesting.

[bosk1]

Dream Theater:  This is my #4 overall, and the first album posted that ranks ahead of I&W (which I consider a benchmark).  VERY surprised we collectively rated it this low.  The songs on this one are concise and focused, at least for DT.
 The Mangini era has shown that they can consistently make albums that have great songs from start to finish with nothing the fans want to skip, and this album is a poster child for that.  Just consistently really good from the first needle drop to the last piano notes of Illumination Theory.  Speaking of which, IT has some of the best, most fun riffs, and some of the most beautiful moments in the band's catalog.  If not for its structure sometimes feeling a bit clunky, and thus making it feel a bit less cohesive than some of the bigger epics, it could be one of their best all time songs and bring the album up even higher in the rankings.  The only knock I have on the album as a whole is that the production, while not overtly noticeably problematic for me, gives me a bit of fatigue when listening it high volume.   

I wonder of it is the same for others who are not native English speakers but CoT lyrics, clumsy as they are, never really bothered me

Nah, those lyrics are great.  Don't let a few Internet trolls fool you.  The trolls are always the loudest voices.

[Samsara]

A lot to catch up on from the weekend (maybe post only M-F?).

re: The Astonishing - I had this in last place at #15. Obviously, a lot has already been said. So I'll make my comments brief. A lot of good ideas but a bland concept. JP probably should have rethought this one.


re: BC&SL - I had this one at #13. I don't really enjoy this at all. I actually prefer the edited version of A Right of Passage better than the full version. Wither is the next best song to me, and it is just unexciting. I know many dig A Night to Remember and The Count of Tuscany...sorry, I think they are extremely overrated and bloated. Silly in parts.


re: DT self-titled - this clocked in at #9. A good listen from beginning to end. Not my favorite, but there are certainly worse DT records. I find this a filler album in the band's catalog.

[KevShmev]

WDADU:  Yeah, this had to be #15.  Anyone saying otherwise is either Scotty or engaging in some revisionist history.   

I wonder of it is the same for others who are not native English speakers but CoT lyrics, clumsy as they are, never really bothered me

Nah, those lyrics are great.  Don't let a few Internet trolls fool you.  The trolls are always the loudest voices.

I guess we can look forward to you trashing some of us every time you disagree with us in this thread.  Fun stuff that, sadly, does not surprise me. 

[RoeDent]

Woah, chill out dude! Kind of unnecessary dig there.

[pg1067]

My rankings:

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7. Dream Theater
8.
9. When Dream and Day Unite
10. Black Clouds & Silver Linings
11.
12.
13.
14. Systematic Chaos
15. The Astonishing


Dream Theater is my #1 MM-era album.  Not a bad song on it, and it has a couple GREAT songs.  Illumination Theory is incredible, dancing from one musical theme to another while still remaining cohesive.  The Looking Glass is a superb short song (derivative though it may be).  The Enemy Inside kicks you in the teeth - in a good way.  Along for the Ride is an excellent ballad.  The only place the album loses me slightly is with TBP, BTV and STR.  Those three songs come across as rather "samey."  Enigma Machine is also just an ok instrumental.  I hear people constantly deriding the production of this one, but either I don't hear it or it doesn't bother me.

[romdrums]

12. Black Clouds and Silver Linings (my rank: 15).  When I first bought this album, I was listening to it on the way home, and when it came to the growled section in ANTR, I was one button press away from pulling the CD out and throwing it out the window.  I'm perfectly cool with Cookie Monster vocals, death growls, etc. but they do not work for that song at all.  TCOT is the main redeeming factor on an otherwise bad album.  Lyrically, it's awful throughout.  MP was right, something did need to change, and I'm glad the change was him.

11. Dream Theater (my rank: 14).  The snare drum sound ruins this record for me.  It sounds like they sampled Mangini hitting a pillow that had a towel placed on top of it.  It would fit in on an indie record where the rest of the drums are supposed to sound like garbage, but not on a DT record.  Seriously kills my enjoyment of this record.

[Dublagent66]

Honest question; why do we give so much slack to TA on the grounds that "this is what the band were going for so they should get credit for achievement", but fail to do the same with other material (TBOT was the song that triggered this thought).  IF we give credit to "artist intent", then shouldn't TBOT - something that I recall Mike being on record as being VERY proud of, and rightfully so - get the same acknowledgement?

Personally, I don't care what the intent was.  The bottom line is, do I like it or not?  If you go by intent alone, you might as well be giving out participation trophies.


15  When Dream and Day Unite
14  Dream Theater
13  The Astonishing
12   
11   
10  Black Clouds and Silver Linings
  9  Systematic Chaos
  8   
  7   
  6   
  5   
  4   
  3   
  2   
  1   

[bosk1]

WDADU:  Yeah, this had to be #15.  Anyone saying otherwise is either Scotty or engaging in some revisionist history.   

I wonder of it is the same for others who are not native English speakers but CoT lyrics, clumsy as they are, never really bothered me

Nah, those lyrics are great.  Don't let a few Internet trolls fool you.  The trolls are always the loudest voices.

I guess we can look forward to you trashing some of us every time you disagree with us in this thread.  Fun stuff that, sadly, does not surprise me. 

Eh, since you called out people trolling the QR thread, and I supported you doing so there, your reaction here rings a bit hollow.  If the show fits, own it and wear it.  If it doesn't, grow a thick skin and move on.  Nobody attacked you as a person--only called out certain conduct, which, again, you yourself called out in another thread. 

Anyhow, let's get back to enjoying the countdown rather than tearing each other down.

[nobloodyname]

DT12 placed 14th for me. Crushingly dull and spectacularly mediocre.

[Samsara]

Paul,

Based on what you wrote, I'm checking out DT self-titled a bit more closely this morning. Really enjoying the revisit. It's better than I gave it credit for. (I had it at 9, could probably pop it up a couple of spots and hit 8 or 7 like you.)

[Dublagent66]

DT12 placed 14th for me. Crushingly dull and spectacularly mediocre.

Looks like we're in the same boat on this one.

[DreamerTV]

1 
2   
3   
4   
5   
6   
7   
8   
9   
10   The Astonishing
11   Dream Theater
12   When Dream and Day Unite
13   
14   Systematic Chaos
15   Black Clouds & Silver Linings


Half of it is quite great: really love IT and The Bigger Picture, Surrender to Reason had some really great potential but failed at becoming a classic, and The Enemy Inside is their best single of their “modern era”.
The rest is lacking some real energy, with the instrumental being underwhelming given all the expectations.

[pg1067]

Paul,

Based on what you wrote, I'm checking out DT self-titled a bit more closely this morning. Really enjoying the revisit. It's better than I gave it credit for. (I had it at 9, could probably pop it up a couple of spots and hit 8 or 7 like you.)

 

Honest question; why do we give so much slack to TA on the grounds that "this is what the band were going for so they should get credit for achievement", but fail to do the same with other material (TBOT was the song that triggered this thought).  IF we give credit to "artist intent", then shouldn't TBOT - something that I recall Mike being on record as being VERY proud of, and rightfully so - get the same acknowledgement?

Who's "we"?

I understand what they were doing.  I think it was a worthwhile thing to do.  Some folks criticize the undertaking on a conceptual level.  I don't do that.  But I still think it was poor execution and rank it at the bottom.

[hefdaddy42]

To catch up:

BC&SL is pretty bad, and I think it is fortunate to be as high as it is.

DT12 is really pretty good.  Definitely a couple of sub-par things on it, but mostly pretty good.  A little surprised to see it as low as it is.

And the lyrics to TCOT are trash.

[Wim Kruithof]

Love this album.  Was number 5 for me.  Not much not to like on this.  IT is one if the best things I've ever heard.

Totally agree with your last line Wolfking. Illumination Theory is amongst the very best songs they ever composed. I love every bit of it and the entire album also is in my top #10.

I wonder how it's possible that the album that's so far off what they wanted - due to commercial boundaries - is still higher in the list. If there is one album in their discography that's far off from what they wanted it to be, (at least as written down in Lifting Shadows) it's Falling Into Infinity. But it's made the top 10. Unbelievable to me.

[SwedishGoose]

Love this album.  Was number 5 for me.  Not much not to like on this.  IT is one if the best things I've ever heard.

Totally agree with your last line Wolfking. Illumination Theory is amongst the very best songs they ever composed. I love every bit of it and the entire album also is in my top #10.

I wonder how it's possible that the album that's so far off what they wanted - due to commercial boundaries - is still higher in the list. If there is one album in their discography that's far off from what they wanted it to be, (at least as written down in Lifting Shadows) it's Falling Into Infinity. But it's made the top 10. Unbelievable to me.

Maybe it's because it's not about what DT wanted it to be but about what enjoyment we get out of it.

For me at least I definitely prefer Falling Into Infinity over DT12. I'll take Trial of Tears over Illumination Theory every day. Not that I don't like IT but it doesn't give me goosebumps the way TOT does....

[Samsara]

For me at least I definitely prefer Falling Into Infinity over DT12. I'll take Trial of Tears over Illumination Theory every day. Not that I don't like IT but it doesn't give me goosebumps the way TOT does....

Same.

[Ben_Jamin]

#12 - Black Clouds and Silver Linings (My Ranking: #13)


When I first heard AROP, my first reaction to it was, okay they're following the same structure as Constant Motion, and it's beginning to feel like Dream Theater is turning into the band that releases "Single" type of songs. I was right as they continued this trend since Systematic Chaos being their first album in quite a while with singles that gained some popularity, other than Panic Attack being on Rock Band.

When I first heard the album, I loved A Nightmare to Remember, the only issue I have with it is the ending instrumental before the final chorus has a section that could go without, the section where the drums die down hitting the rimshots, while the muted guitar, bass, and keys play the same parts.

I do not have a problem at all with The Shattered Fortress, given what the subject matter is and what each step represents, it makes complete sense to me regarding the use of call-backs of the previous songs and how this song seems to be one big summary. To me, it represents a reflection and a reanalysis of what you were going through with the previous steps.

Just like MP considered Space Dye-Vest to be Kevin Moore's song and Anna Lee to be Derek's, TBOT is MP's song. I enjoy it, but I just laugh at how much MP uses the word "day". When I hear the intro piano, I just imagine a montage in black and white reel-to-reel style film of MP and his Father making memories. Coincidentally, this album does have some odd things as being MP's last album, from this being his sort of Swan Song epic dedicated to his father, the boy leaving through the open door in the album art, and also the title of Black Clouds and Silver Linings.

The Count of Tuscany is a great song, and I don't mind how the lyrics just straight up tell the story. I just imagine someone standing by me, like at a bar or someplace, and we start to converse, when he starts to tell about this crazy experience he had in Tuscany involving a count. I think the music really reflects these emotions during what's happening in each stanza of lyrics. The intro makes me imagine the lush countryside of Tuscany, exactly like the backscreen video they used this tour.

Now, the reason for it being so low, even tough I am praising most of the songs, is that as an album, it is lacking flow and cohesiveness. The album art is fitting to me as that is how I feel about the songs on the album. And also since I don't really care for AROP and Wither, those can bring it down a bit more as I feel they could've done a lot more with those songs.


Favorite: The Count of Tuscany
Least: A Rite of Passage

[Stadler]

Who's "we"?

I understand what they were doing.  I think it was a worthwhile thing to do.  Some folks criticize the undertaking on a conceptual level.  I don't do that.  But I still think it was poor execution and rank it at the bottom.

"We" was the polite collective reference to all the losers that say they love The Astonishing.     


(I'm kidding; I don't fault or judge people for their opinions).

[TAC]

Well, it's good to know that I'm not being faulted of judged for being a loser..

[pg1067]

Love this album.  Was number 5 for me.  Not much not to like on this.  IT is one if the best things I've ever heard.

Totally agree with your last line Wolfking. Illumination Theory is amongst the very best songs they ever composed. I love every bit of it and the entire album also is in my top #10.

I wonder how it's possible that the album that's so far off what they wanted - due to commercial boundaries - is still higher in the list. If there is one album in their discography that's far off from what they wanted it to be, (at least as written down in Lifting Shadows) it's Falling Into Infinity. But it's made the top 10. Unbelievable to me.

Mike Portnoy is not the sum total of "they."  JP has stated expressly that FII was the album they wanted to make.

[Elite]

Oh hey, here's their most boring album, that gets saved from last place by their second best Mangini era song (which is The Enemy Inside). Solid #14 on my list.

[SeRoX]

Kev, sorry to bother but can you please send me my list via PM. I didn't save it anywhere and I am not sure what I ranked. 

[TAC]

11. Dream Theater

Number 1 finishes: 0
Last place finishes: 3
Average finish: 10.4

I had Dream Theater at #14. I like the album, but to me there's nothing that really stands out.

I like Illumination Theory well enough, but that middle section just kills it.

[Samsara]

I like Illumination Theory well enough, but that middle section just kills it.

Amen. Seriously.

[The Realm]

I had Dream Theater at 14. Could have easily been 15. The songwriting on the album is ok, but I don't like the sound of the album which makes it a tough listen. And I know it gets a lot of love but I am also not a fan of Illumination Theory.

[DragonAttack]

15.  When Dream And Day Unite  #13  I didn't hear this until '09, so there's that piece.  Charlie's vocals and the production are tough on the ears, WDADReunite is an improvement.

The best comparison regarding vocalists relates to the ‘Smile’ album in the Queen discography.  The band name is different, it’s part of Brian’s and Roger’s discography, but there’s no Freddie lead vocals. 

WDADU does have ‘Ytse Jam’.  Just for that song by a bunch of teenagers, the stock goes up.

14.  Systematic Chaos  #12   Great opening track, and it's what they used for the DC show I saw in '08 following 'Ant Odyssey'.  'Constant Motion' is hard driving, fun.   'Repentence'....remove the spoken words or just end it at around five minutes, and it's OK.  TDEN....hate it, but it was good enjoyable live.  'Prophets Of War'....a good anti corporation war song regarding profits.  'The Ministry Of Lost Souls'....too long of a fade out, but enjoyable.  ITPOE Pt 2.....skip.  So it is a fair 45-50 minute album.

13.  The Astonishing  #10  Like many here, as a personally abridged one disc version, it is quite enjoyable.  A shame there's no JM or MM solo or duet for 30-60 seconds to set some sort of impending sense of doom or battle scene or something along those lines.  James is superb, and enjoy the bagpipes.

12.  Black Clouds & Silver Linings   #14  Most of ANTR is good/great, the guitar solo at the end of TBOT is so emotionally moving, and TCOT of course has the great song/bad lyrics tag (deservedly so).  The rest is just so depressing.

11. DT 12  #9  Good instrumental opening to 'The Enemy Inside', really enjoy 'The Bigger Picture' and IT, but the rest all somewhat sounds the same. 

[KevShmev]

Kev, sorry to bother but can you please send me my list via PM. I didn't save it anywhere and I am not sure what I ranked. 

No bother at all!  Just sent it.

[SeRoX]

Thanks Kev.

I'm surprised when people talked about SC most of you tend to ignore ITPOE pt2. I think it's better than part-1. The band seems to agree with most of you. Because they never play part-2 since SC tour. Shame.